EM64T announcement and Linus (was Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit)
Scribit Peter Samuelson dies 17/03/2007 hora 03:29: Linus Torvalds read Intel's announcement and was a bit disgusted that Intel tried as hard as they could to imply (without actually saying so) that the architecture was their own invention Would you have any reference to this? Curiously, Pierre -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] OpenPGP 0xD9D50D8A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: EM64T announcement and Linus (was Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit)
I demand that Pierre THIERRY may or may not have written... Scribit Peter Samuelson dies 17/03/2007 hora 03:29: Linus Torvalds read Intel's announcement and was a bit disgusted that Intel tried as hard as they could to imply (without actually saying so) that the architecture was their own invention Would you have any reference to this? http://lkml.org/lkml/2004/2/21/110 -- | Darren Salt| linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon | RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army | Let's keep the pound sterling Everything should be transparent to the user. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit
Michael S. Peek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi gurus, I'm looking to buy or build an install host -- one machine dedicated to building and serving a local repository for the purposes of installing/upgrading/maintaining other Debian hosts throughout our organization. The problem is, I'm a little clueless when it comes to hardware, and I want to make sure that I'm not about to shoot myself in the foot. Some of the packages in my local repository require compiling. Do I need to worry about AMD vs. Intel and/or 32-bit vs. 64-bit when building my install host? (A machine that generates *.deb files that are only good on *that* one machine is useless to me.) How do you guys deal with this in your organizations? Thanks for your input, Michael Peek The short answere is: No, you don't have to worry. Debian packages are (by default) always build for the architecture of the port you have installed regardless of the actual system used to build the package. In fact it is a serious bug for a source to probe the used hardware and build different depending on the result. Every debian package build for a port must work on all systems supported by that port. In english that means even if you build a package under debian i386 on an i686 or even amd64/em64t (em64t is intels name for amd64) cpu that package must still work on an i486 [note that i386 support was droped a while back but the name i386 remains for historical reasons]. Also a package build on debian amd64 will on every amd64 or em64t system. For how to do this correctly in your own packages you can read about this in the debian policy, packaging reference and maintainer guide. man dpkg-architecture can also give you a hint. So the only thing you need to worry is that you are able to install the debian ports that you want to build packages for. Since Debian i386 will run just fine on an amd64/em64t CPU but not the other way around (and for a lot of other reasons) you want an 64bit cpu. With a 64bit cpu you can install debian i386 and have a debian amd64 chroot or vice versa provided you run a 64bit kernel flavour. My further recommendation is to install a minimal Debian amd64 system with xen and then the actual systems for hosting the repository, building and tetsing packages as seperate xen domains under that. That way you can mess up big time in the testing domain without affecting e.g. the repository and easily recover. Also being able to just ssh build-32 from anywhere in your network to get into the 32bit build environment is fun. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit
[Wouter Verhelst] Both amd64 and x86_64 are names that AMD coined to describe the architecture. They changed their opinion at some point, I don't know which is the most recent name they chose. AMD64 is the newer name. When Intel released their clone chip, the Linux kernel was still using the older x86-64 name, but Debian's amd64 project had already switched to the new name. Linus Torvalds read Intel's announcement and was a bit disgusted that Intel tried as hard as they could to imply (without actually saying so) that the architecture was their own invention - he said he was sorely tempted to call it amd64 in kernel-land, but pragmatism won out over emotion. As I recall, Debian kept the new name partly because it would have been annoying to change back, but also to avoid the '-' and '_' characters, which can be problematic in some contexts (like autoconf tuples or .deb filenames). And x8664 just looks funny. (x86=64 would have been amusing too. Is it a veiled Commodore 64 reference, or is it quoted-printable?) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit
On Saturday 17 March 2007 09.29:10 Peter Samuelson wrote: x86=64 would have been amusing too. Is it a veiled Commodore 64 reference, or is it quoted-printable? Not to speak of broken mime decoders that would just display x86d. I'd rather say it's to do something with Georg Orwell. If 2+2=5, then we can also have 86=64, I don't know what happens to the x, though. Hmm. Or we could just call the architecture x=0.744 cheers -- vbi -- Wer A sagt, der muß nicht B sagen. Er kann auch erkennen, daß A falsch war. -- Bertold Brecht pgpeHazG8KJK1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit
Hi, A machine that generates *.deb files that are only good on *that* one machine is useless to me. as I said before, you can run 32bit and 64bit OSs on amd64 machines, so you could just stay with ia32 on all machines and not worry about 64bit. But neither that nor trying to cross-compile from 32bit to 64bit is the way to go in my eyes. I'd just install a 32bit debian and a 64bit debian within a kvm and use them to build the packages. I'll setup such a build environment in April, which will work like pbuilder, but it'll be based on kvm and build packages for ia32 and amd64, as we're starting to use amd64 at work these days. If there're better ideas how to solve this problem, please let me know. Cheers, Bernd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 07:14:27AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote: On Thursday 15 March 2007 20.02:14 Greg Folkert wrote: And for clarity, IA32 cover 32-bit Intel and works for AMD 32-bit processors. IA64 is the Itanium series of processors, amd64 cover the AMD K8/Opteron processors AND the Intel emt64* Intel processors. ... and just for completeness: x86_64 was the name the Linux kernel people chose for AMD64. I don't know where the term came from, exactly. Both amd64 and x86_64 are names that AMD coined to describe the architecture. They changed their opinion at some point, I don't know which is the most recent name they chose. -- Lo-lan-do Home is where you have to wash the dishes. -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit
* Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED], [2007-03-16 15:10 +0100]: On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 07:14:27AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote: ... and just for completeness: x86_64 was the name the Linux kernel people chose for AMD64. I don't know where the term came from, exactly. Both amd64 and x86_64 are names that AMD coined to describe the architecture. They changed their opinion at some point, I don't know which is the most recent name they chose. According to wikipedia, x86-64 is the vendor-neutral term used to refer both to AMD64 (AMD) and EM64T (Intel). ciao, ema -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit
On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 11:03 -0400, Michael S. Peek wrote: Hi gurus, I'm looking to buy or build an install host -- one machine dedicated to building and serving a local repository for the purposes of installing/upgrading/maintaining other Debian hosts throughout our organization. The problem is, I'm a little clueless when it comes to hardware, and I want to make sure that I'm not about to shoot myself in the foot. Some of the packages in my local repository require compiling. Do I need to worry about AMD vs. Intel and/or 32-bit vs. 64-bit when building my install host? (A machine that generates *.deb files that are only good on *that* one machine is useless to me.) How do you guys deal with this in your organizations? Thanks for your input, I am not a DD, but my approach would be to buy 64bit AMD or Intel hardware (amd64_x86(sic?) covers both architectures). I would then make a 64-bit build environment in a chroot, then a 32-bit build environment in a chroot. After that it is a SMOP (not not really but, I digress) to get the buildd in each environment to do its job. Of course, you could also setup XEN or Vserver environments. And for clarity, IA32 cover 32-bit Intel and works for AMD 32-bit processors. IA64 is the Itanium series of processors, amd64 cover the AMD K8/Opteron processors AND the Intel emt64* Intel processors. Intel lost out on that nomenclature. I am sure others will either correct me or elaborate or both. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit
Heya, And for clarity, IA32 cover 32-bit Intel and works for AMD 32-bit processors. but ia32 will just work fine on amd64 architectures. You can decide if you want to run a 32 or 64bit Linux on amd64/emt64. Both ways have their advantages and drawbacks. Choose whatever you need. Cheers, Bernd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit
On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 21:21 +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: Heya, And for clarity, IA32 cover 32-bit Intel and works for AMD 32-bit processors. but ia32 will just work fine on amd64 architectures. You can decide if you want to run a 32 or 64bit Linux on amd64/emt64. Both ways have their advantages and drawbacks. Choose whatever you need. Did you read the message I responded to? You answered exactly no part of it. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Compiling Debs on AMD vs. Intel and 32bit vs. 64bit
On Thursday 15 March 2007 20.02:14 Greg Folkert wrote: And for clarity, IA32 cover 32-bit Intel and works for AMD 32-bit processors. IA64 is the Itanium series of processors, amd64 cover the AMD K8/Opteron processors AND the Intel emt64* Intel processors. ... and just for completeness: x86_64 was the name the Linux kernel people chose for AMD64. I don't know where the term came from, exactly. cheers -- vbi -- Fnord. pgpRzemOPwD1Y.pgp Description: PGP signature
