Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 07:26:10PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > One source of confusion in Mexico was that people said at the Mexican > embassy they were travelling "for a conference". Stupid as it might > sound, that meant they were coming "on business", and it was a PITA to > convince the Foreign Relations people that we were _NOT_ for profit, > and neither were any of you. Jimmy, I advise you to triple-check if > that it is the best way to help the visa process, or whether we should > all apply as "tourists-and-nothing-else". After all, quite a bit of > people go as tourists to NY, so nothing fishy there. The relevant US government websites also make it seem like a business visa is correct in this case, and based on US university websites that seems also applicable to academics visiting the US for academic conferences, not just for-profit ones. Regardless, I agree about the triple-checking. We've already received an offer of assistance from a properly licensed lawyer who lives in NYC and has dealt with visa applications before. We're definitely going to pay attention to getting these details right. - Jimmy Kaplowitz ji...@debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
Victor H De la Luz dijo [Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 05:29:51PM -0300]: > And if you are rejected, then always exists the mexican "coyotes" to > cross the border (is a joke but is real)... I recognize you are Mexican, by your mail. And... Well, I advise you not to even joke on this. Being related to illegal people trafic (even if just for an ill-fortuned Google search) can not only act against us as an organization, but give bad publicity to the project as a whole. Besides... as I said in my other mail, entering Mexico is at least quite a headache on its own for people with visa problems. But that's a (sad, stupid and quite) different story. -- Gunnar Wolf - gw...@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
Jimmy Kaplowitz dijo [Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 02:31:24PM -0500]: > Martin may have left the wrong impression. We don't have the issues fully > solved, and of course can no more make guarantees that there won't be visa or > border hassles than the Mexico local team was able to for DebConf6 (the first > year where visas became an issue). Not only, might I add, DC6 was the first time the visas were an issue, it was the first time also (at least as far as the organizers could know) that people were left out because of the visa situation. Recall that, i.e., DC4 (@Brazil) posed a problematic visa issuing situation -precisely- for USAmericans, as Brazil has this polemic (but IMHO great) reciprocity system, whereas Mexico appears to have decided to become a screening door for the USA - We didn't expect the visa requirements to be an issue at all, and even having all the needed connections (my wife was at the time speaking on an almost-daily basis with the Foreign Relations Secretary's personal assistant, and not even that did the trick) we ended up... With a mess that left some people in the cold. But still, that experience showed us quite a bit. And yes, we are now (I was not involved in DC8, but at least for DC7) receiving some applications from people clearly looking only for a way to get entry to a more developed country. And as an organization, DebConf (which means, Debian) must be careful to check that all visa tramits we process are _really_ for people interested in working for Debian. (And going legally back home!) > Further, we're definitely going to be giving people invitation letters and > other advice to make sure they present themselves in the best (accurate) light > they can to the visa or border officials, as well as separate exaggeration > from > fact with regard to border search and other privacy concerns so that people > can > make rational decisions based on reality instead of sensationalism. More > details will be provided at the DebConf10 presentation in Caceres at DebConf9, > if not sooner. One source of confusion in Mexico was that people said at the Mexican embassy they were travelling "for a conference". Stupid as it might sound, that meant they were coming "on business", and it was a PITA to convince the Foreign Relations people that we were _NOT_ for profit, and neither were any of you. Jimmy, I advise you to triple-check if that it is the best way to help the visa process, or whether we should all apply as "tourists-and-nothing-else". After all, quite a bit of people go as tourists to NY, so nothing fishy there. -- Gunnar Wolf - gw...@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009, dan wrote: > > > search and other privacy concerns so that people can make rational > > > decisions based on reality instead of sensationalism. > > > > Sensationalism like > > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/08/us_government_p.html > > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/05/crossing_border.html > > ? > > I would like to share this with you though. Ten years ago I married an > English lady and moved to the UK. I didn't bring my computers with me as > i planned to buy some when I settled, I did however bring disks, linux > cd's, etc. Immigration here insisted on knowing where my computers were > so that that they could inspect them...whether I had shipped them ahead > or they were coming later. It took hours and hours. I found the whole > matter very comical on one one hand and very sad on the other. This was > some ten years ago and pre 9/11. My point is, in case you missed it, is > that the United States is not the only country in the world who has such > policies in place. If you doubt my point, stick your laptop in a > backback and come over to the UK. I have entered the UK by plane several times before 911 and many times afterwards. I have entered the UK via the chunnel many more times. On every occasion I had at least one laptop, sometimes I had multiple laptops, a PDA, or even a Cobalt Qube. I always had enough computer gear to stand out from the crowd. On no occasion did the UK border security people pay any particular attention to such devices. While it is well known that the UK have laws and policies that permit them to search laptops etc, my experience suggests that such searches are performed in only a small minority of cases. They have however vacuumed my pockets for traces of drugs which I think is grossly wrong. If for example I had received as change some money with drug traces then I could have had some problems. IMHO any quantity of drugs that is too small to get high should not be illegal (as a separate issue I think that the war on drugs is entirely bad and should be stopped). My experience on entering the US (which I did many times before and after 911) was that they sometimes want me to turn my laptop on but never to get past the boot screen. They have never wanted to seize or search computer gear. I conclude that both the UK and the US search computers quite rarely. That said, it would really suck to be subject to the type of search that Bruce describes. > I've used Debian for about ten years now, always been proud to say I > used it. In the course of the past few years though, the bickering on > the lists (particularly the political cheap shot like you just took) > have really worn on me. As I said, I'm just a normal user. Nobody > important, I mainly just read the list, help out at my local lug with > Debian installs and recommend Debian to everyone that asks about linux. > Your post though is pretty much the straw that broke the camels back. I > want to read and talk about linux and Debian. > Until DD's like you learn to leave the political sht at the door and > just discuss issues relevant to Debian, I'm off to another distrobution. > And don't worry, I won't let the door hit me in the ass on the way out. It's not political shit, it's a fair warning about a government policy that could disadvantage some DDs while travelling to an official Debian event. I agree that it would be off-topic for debian-user. As you describe yourself as a user you might find that list to be more suitable to your needs. -- russ...@coker.com.au http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Main Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
On Thursday 26 February 2009 08:08:50 Mike Hommey wrote: > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 02:31:24PM -0500, Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote: > > Further, we're definitely going to be giving people invitation > > letters and other advice to make sure they present themselves in > > the best (accurate) light they can to the visa or border officials, > > as well as separate exaggeration from fact with regard to border > > search and other privacy concerns so that people can make rational > > decisions based on reality instead of sensationalism. > > Sensationalism like > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/08/us_government_p.html > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/05/crossing_border.html > ? Mr. Hommey, I doubt Mr. Kaplowitz has the power to do anything much about the issues you use someone elses blog to bring into the conversation, no doubt you have more clout to shape the french governments policies. I would like to share this with you though. Ten years ago I married an English lady and moved to the UK. I didn't bring my computers with me as i planned to buy some when I settled, I did however bring disks, linux cd's, etc. Immigration here insisted on knowing where my computers were so that that they could inspect them...whether I had shipped them ahead or they were coming later. It took hours and hours. I found the whole matter very comical on one one hand and very sad on the other. This was some ten years ago and pre 9/11. My point is, in case you missed it, is that the United States is not the only country in the world who has such policies in place. If you doubt my point, stick your laptop in a backback and come over to the UK. I've used Debian for about ten years now, always been proud to say I used it. In the course of the past few years though, the bickering on the lists (particularly the political cheap shot like you just took) have really worn on me. As I said, I'm just a normal user. Nobody important, I mainly just read the list, help out at my local lug with Debian installs and recommend Debian to everyone that asks about linux. Your post though is pretty much the straw that broke the camels back. I want to read and talk about linux and Debian. Until DD's like you learn to leave the political sht at the door and just discuss issues relevant to Debian, I'm off to another distrobution. And don't worry, I won't let the door hit me in the ass on the way out. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/ (Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA)
FYI: Although people from many countries (Japan, Europe, ...) are not required to have visa, US now requires to fill some web form in advance. PLEASE do not forget to do Travel Authorization: https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/ Also ... On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 09:08:50AM +0100, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 02:31:24PM -0500, Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote: > > Further, we're definitely going to be giving people invitation letters and > > other advice to make sure they present themselves in the best (accurate) > > light > > they can to the visa or border officials, as well as separate exaggeration > > from > > fact with regard to border search and other privacy concerns so that people > > can > > make rational decisions based on reality instead of sensationalism. I (non-US citizen) have crossed US border many times without any trouble as a foreign resident and as a US resident. I never had a problem. So this is just informational and nothing against US. > Sensationalism like > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/08/us_government_p.html > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/05/crossing_border.html Do not discount it. I also have heard these stories of US government taking PC at the border from my US acquaintances last year. It happened on his friend coming back to US from Asian business trip working for a big US company. I got an impression that it was somewhat selective for the country that person have visited. (not race or citizenship or employment association) Just an unfortunate incident. I guess things like this happens these days and we just live with it in calm. I suggest to secure Debian GPG secret key or any other important things in your PC when crossing any border not just US border. Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 02:31:24PM -0500, Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote: > Further, we're definitely going to be giving people invitation letters and > other advice to make sure they present themselves in the best (accurate) light > they can to the visa or border officials, as well as separate exaggeration > from > fact with regard to border search and other privacy concerns so that people > can > make rational decisions based on reality instead of sensationalism. Sensationalism like http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/08/us_government_p.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/05/crossing_border.html ? Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
hi all, if you need a visa to the USA, just ask the NY team to send you an invitation (if possible from an association). the invitation should be addressed to your company (so ask your company to support you). ask also the NY team to send a copy of this invitation to your local US embassy. kind regards hatem On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Victor H De la Luz wrote: > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Patrick Ouellette > wrote: > > > > With respect to visa issues, early application is always a good ideal. > > I work for a US government agency that hosts international guests for > > training three to four times a year. We usually don't know who is going > > to show up until we actually see the people arrive on the first day of > > training. This is usually due to trying to rush the visa process. > > > > If someone *thinks* they want to attend DebConf10, I suggest they commit > > to attending and apply for a visa sooner rather than later. It just > makes > > things easier. This advice applies anytime a visa is needed to visit any > > country, not just the USA. > > > > Pat > > > > -- > > > > Patrick Ouellette p...@flying-gecko.net > > ne4po (at) arrl (dot) net Amateur Radio: NE4PO > > "Crank the amp to 11, this needs more cowbell - and a llama wouldn't hurt > either" > > "Your arguments are an odd mix of overly optimistic on one side and > overly > > pessimistic on the other" > > > > > > -- > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org > > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > > > > > > And if you are rejected, then always exists the mexican "coyotes" to > cross the border (is a joke but is real)... > > -- > ItZtLi > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > >
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Patrick Ouellette wrote: > > With respect to visa issues, early application is always a good ideal. > I work for a US government agency that hosts international guests for > training three to four times a year. We usually don't know who is going > to show up until we actually see the people arrive on the first day of > training. This is usually due to trying to rush the visa process. > > If someone *thinks* they want to attend DebConf10, I suggest they commit > to attending and apply for a visa sooner rather than later. It just makes > things easier. This advice applies anytime a visa is needed to visit any > country, not just the USA. > > Pat > > -- > > Patrick Ouellette p...@flying-gecko.net > ne4po (at) arrl (dot) net Amateur Radio: NE4PO > "Crank the amp to 11, this needs more cowbell - and a llama wouldn't hurt > either" > "Your arguments are an odd mix of overly optimistic on one side and overly > pessimistic on the other" > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > > And if you are rejected, then always exists the mexican "coyotes" to cross the border (is a joke but is real)... -- ItZtLi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
With respect to visa issues, early application is always a good ideal. I work for a US government agency that hosts international guests for training three to four times a year. We usually don't know who is going to show up until we actually see the people arrive on the first day of training. This is usually due to trying to rush the visa process. If someone *thinks* they want to attend DebConf10, I suggest they commit to attending and apply for a visa sooner rather than later. It just makes things easier. This advice applies anytime a visa is needed to visit any country, not just the USA. Pat -- Patrick Ouellette p...@flying-gecko.net ne4po (at) arrl (dot) net Amateur Radio: NE4PO "Crank the amp to 11, this needs more cowbell - and a llama wouldn't hurt either" "Your arguments are an odd mix of overly optimistic on one side and overly pessimistic on the other" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
(Please CC me on responses - I'm not subscribed to debian-devel currently.) On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 06:55:22PM +0100, Vincent Bernat wrote: > OoO Pendant le temps de midi du mercredi 25 février 2009, vers 12:45, > martin f krafft disait : > > > In eleven years of DebConf history, this will be the first time > > that the Debian developer conference takes place in the United > > States of America, which had been avoided in previous years due to > > visa and other immigration issues. The NYC team had addressed those > > issues from the very start and submitted a very convincing bid. > > Out of curiosity, how those issues will be handled? Martin may have left the wrong impression. We don't have the issues fully solved, and of course can no more make guarantees that there won't be visa or border hassles than the Mexico local team was able to for DebConf6 (the first year where visas became an issue). What he meant was that we've started discussing, researching, and explaining the issues; building connections with people who can help us navigate the bureaucracy and figure out the real truth; and planning ways to reduce the hassles and ease the paperwork of getting any necessary visa and then entering the US. We have some information from during the bid process here: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/NewYork/VisaAndBorderIssues The Boston bid, which also would have been in the US, has a few additional thoughts on their bid page: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/Boston#Visa.2FImmigration.2FLocale_Issues Further, we're definitely going to be giving people invitation letters and other advice to make sure they present themselves in the best (accurate) light they can to the visa or border officials, as well as separate exaggeration from fact with regard to border search and other privacy concerns so that people can make rational decisions based on reality instead of sensationalism. More details will be provided at the DebConf10 presentation in Caceres at DebConf9, if not sooner. - Jimmy Kaplowitz ji...@debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
Vincent Bernat (25/02/2009): > Out of curiosity, how those issues will be handled? Obvi: Covert channels. Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: DebConf10 to take place in New York City, USA
OoO Pendant le temps de midi du mercredi 25 février 2009, vers 12:45, martin f krafft disait : > In eleven years of DebConf history, this will be the first time > that the Debian developer conference takes place in the United > States of America, which had been avoided in previous years due to > visa and other immigration issues. The NYC team had addressed those > issues from the very start and submitted a very convincing bid. Out of curiosity, how those issues will be handled? -- Localise input and output in subroutines. - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plauger) pgp6Q5VnhTSHG.pgp Description: PGP signature
