Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote: kushni kushniIf there were some Debian oriented database, where one could kushniadd his experience about installation of Debian on some kushniunusual hardware, I would add mine about ThinkPad 380XD. THERE IS ! FAQ-O-MATIC ! (Excuse my yelling, I just wanted to advertise ;) ) Why don't you put an entry in this nice, underutilized tool. And reward Mr. Grobman for his effort. See: http://www.debian.org/fom/1.html John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
Hi, John! Thanks for reminding me about that. Part of the reason I forgot is that there is no direct link to it from main Web page. Perhaps FAQ-O-Matic deserved it's place on Main page. Sasha. kushni kushniIf there were some Debian oriented database, where one could kushniadd his experience about installation of Debian on some kushniunusual hardware, I would add mine about ThinkPad 380XD. THERE IS ! FAQ-O-MATIC ! (Excuse my yelling, I just wanted to advertise ;) ) Why don't you put an entry in this nice, underutilized tool. And reward Mr. Grobman for his effort.
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 02:40:38PM -0500, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote: Hi, I have an IBM ThinkPad 380XD. I have found that 2.0.x kernels just don't work properly, my machine will crash or shutdown during boot. I believe that the best thing that can be done to support laptops is to create boot disks with 2.1.125 kernels. 2.1.125 works well on my laptop in every way and has fixed the problems with RAM disks that older 2.1.x kernels had. Sorry to jump into discussion... Well, I ABSOLUTELYU agree with Russel. I also installed linux on IBM ThinkPad 380XD. It's my 6-th Debian installation around and definitly the most embarrasing one. I DO agree that ThinkPad 380XD is quite new piece of hardware, and don't want to blame anyone or anything, but perhaps we may pay closer attention to Laptop instalation problems. 1. Official booting disketes - DOES NOT work (tecra also!) 2. Official kernel 2.0.34 - DOES NOT work (constant reboot) The only thing that work was loadlin thru Win95 :( To identify the bug (and try to fix it) a little bit of info is needed. At which step is the system crashing? Before displaying the boot: prompt? Before displaying the Color or Monochrome dialog? Elsewhere? It looks like a kernel-related problem, and not one that applies to any laptop model. -- Enrique Zanardi[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 03:52:12PM -0400, Seth M. Landsman wrote: Hmm, I'm going to have to add a negative data point here. Debian installed almost perfectly on my laptop (a Gateway 2300SE) right off of a CD. I did have to recompile the kernel for APM stuff and pcmcia utilities, which was exceedingly painless (for me, that is, YMMV). I also had to get and install the NeoMagic X Server manually, but this was before a package for it existed. Therefore, I don't think this is laptop installation problems in general. I think that this may be specific to some laptops, but not all. I'd say it's a high percentage. It was trouble on my Toshiba Satellite 310CDS, and although the source disc has the Toshiba boot image on it, it doesn't know how to install the Toshiba kernel later. Although a friend of mine installed it on his Acer Extensa without problems and wouldn't have known that the Tecra disks existed. I need zImage for my desktop too. Don't know why; it's just a generic clone PC. Probably something in my BIOS options. On the other hand I'm yet to see why the Debian default needs to be bzImage anyway -- we compile as much as we can as modules. If the kernel works as a zImage there is no need to build it as a bzImage! And no confusion later. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3TYD [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
Hi, Enrique! On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 02:40:38PM -0500, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote: 1. Official booting disketes - DOES NOT work (tecra also!) 2. Official kernel 2.0.34 - DOES NOT work (constant reboot) The only thing that work was loadlin thru Win95 :( To identify the bug (and try to fix it) a little bit of info is needed. At which step is the system crashing? Before displaying the boot: prompt? Before displaying the Color or Monochrome dialog? Elsewhere? It looks like a kernel-related problem, and not one that applies to any laptop model. roblem: In both cases linux kernel failed to be downloaded, so no installation menus or anything. OK, here how it looks like 1. When we reboot computer thru LILO it prints (after you press return): LILO: linux.. suddenly black screen AND REBOOTS AGAIN 2. We put in bootable diskette, it first print that Welcome, no garantee... messaage, prints boot: and wait for you to hit RETURN, after that same story: boot: linux. AND REBOTTS AGAIN. Sasha.
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
Hi, I have an IBM ThinkPad 380XD. I have found that 2.0.x kernels just don't work properly, my machine will crash or shutdown during boot. I believe that the best thing that can be done to support laptops is to create boot disks with 2.1.125 kernels. 2.1.125 works well on my laptop in every way and has fixed the problems with RAM disks that older 2.1.x kernels had. Sorry to jump into discussion... Well, I ABSOLUTELYU agree with Russel. I also installed linux on IBM ThinkPad 380XD. It's my 6-th Debian installation around and definitly the most embarrasing one. I DO agree that ThinkPad 380XD is quite new piece of hardware, and don't want to blame anyone or anything, but perhaps we may pay closer attention to Laptop instalation problems. 1. Official booting disketes - DOES NOT work (tecra also!) 2. Official kernel 2.0.34 - DOES NOT work (constant reboot) The only thing that work was loadlin thru Win95 :( Sasha.
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote: : Hi, : : I have an IBM ThinkPad 380XD. I have found that 2.0.x kernels just don't : work properly, my machine will crash or shutdown during boot. I believe that : the best thing that can be done to support laptops is to create boot disks : with 2.1.125 kernels. 2.1.125 works well on my laptop in every way and has : fixed the problems with RAM disks that older 2.1.x kernels had. : : : Sorry to jump into discussion... Well, I ABSOLUTELYU agree with Russel. I : also installed linux on IBM ThinkPad 380XD. It's my 6-th Debian installation : around and definitly the most embarrasing one. I DO agree that ThinkPad 380XD : is quite new piece of hardware, and don't want to blame anyone or anything, : but perhaps we may pay closer attention to Laptop instalation problems. : : 1. Official booting disketes - DOES NOT work (tecra also!) : 2. Official kernel 2.0.34 - DOES NOT work (constant reboot) I've got a 380Z - a zImage kernel worked for me. Of course, there is no official zImage rescue disk :/ -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet 410 South Phillips Avenue Sioux Falls, SD mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9)
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
On Thu, Oct 15, 1998 at 02:49:19PM -0500, Nathan E Norman wrote: On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote: : Hi, : : I have an IBM ThinkPad 380XD. I have found that 2.0.x kernels just don't : work properly, my machine will crash or shutdown during boot. I believe that : the best thing that can be done to support laptops is to create boot disks : with 2.1.125 kernels. 2.1.125 works well on my laptop in every way and has : fixed the problems with RAM disks that older 2.1.x kernels had. : : : Sorry to jump into discussion... Well, I ABSOLUTELYU agree with Russel. I : also installed linux on IBM ThinkPad 380XD. It's my 6-th Debian installation : around and definitly the most embarrasing one. I DO agree that ThinkPad 380XD : is quite new piece of hardware, and don't want to blame anyone or anything, : but perhaps we may pay closer attention to Laptop instalation problems. : : 1. Official booting disketes - DOES NOT work (tecra also!) : 2. Official kernel 2.0.34 - DOES NOT work (constant reboot) I've got a 380Z - a zImage kernel worked for me. Of course, there is no official zImage rescue disk :/ Hmm, I'm going to have to add a negative data point here. Debian installed almost perfectly on my laptop (a Gateway 2300SE) right off of a CD. I did have to recompile the kernel for APM stuff and pcmcia utilities, which was exceedingly painless (for me, that is, YMMV). I also had to get and install the NeoMagic X Server manually, but this was before a package for it existed. Therefore, I don't think this is laptop installation problems in general. I think that this may be specific to some laptops, but not all. -Seth -- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
Hi, Therefore, I don't think this is laptop installation problems in general. I think that this may be specific to some laptops, but not all. -Seth Agree. If there were some Debian oriented database, where one could add his experience about installation of Debian on some unusual hardware, I would add mine about ThinkPad 380XD. Sasha. -- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
Maybe the subject is a bit harsh, but currently users trying to install Debian on a Notebook face more problems than users installing it on a desktop computer. Compared with other Linux distributions Debian fails to install on some Notebooks (for example IBM Thinkpad 770) or requires handcrafted boot disks. All things that could be done independent of any release goal: - Provide a useful notebook-kernel-image and pcmcia-modules package. It's fine that for most desktop configurations the user does not have to recompile the kernel. Unfortunately that's not the case for I have an IBM ThinkPad 380XD. I have found that 2.0.x kernels just don't work properly, my machine will crash or shutdown during boot. I believe that the best thing that can be done to support laptops is to create boot disks with 2.1.125 kernels. 2.1.125 works well on my laptop in every way and has fixed the problems with RAM disks that older 2.1.x kernels had. Another thing that is needed is support for installing from SLIP or PLIP. I believe that the ThinkPad 600 series has a PCMCIA floppy drive, PCMCIA floppy drives apparently do not work with Linux and I don't expect them to be supported for a while. It's possible to boot up from a PCMCIA floppy as the contents of the RAM disk are loaded using BIOS calls in real mode. In protected mode the floppy can't be accessed. To make it reasonably possible to install Linux on a machine with PCMCIA floppy and PCMCIA CD-ROM the best solution will be to allow installing the base files from SLIP or Zmodem (should only take 10-15 minutes at 115200bps). Once the base files are installed it shouldn't be difficult to setup a PCMCIA CD-ROM or Ethernet device to install the rest. To install on my laptop I got a 40meg archive of a working system, split it up into 1.44meg chunks and copied it on a floppy at a time... I spent ~12 hours installing Linux on this machine. -- I'll be in Denver from 30 Oct 1998 to 7 Nov 1998 (or maybe a few days longer). I'll be in London from ~9 Nov 1998. I'd like to meet any Linux users or users groups in these places at these times. I plan to work in London for 3 - 6 months...
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
On Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 12:12:26PM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: I have an IBM ThinkPad 380XD. I have found that 2.0.x kernels just don't work properly, my machine will crash or shutdown during boot. I believe that the best thing that can be done to support laptops is to create boot disks with 2.1.125 kernels. 2.1.125 works well on my laptop in every way and has fixed the problems with RAM disks that older 2.1.x kernels had. Have you tried with the tecra patch? Another thing that is needed is support for installing from SLIP or PLIP. I believe that the ThinkPad 600 series has a PCMCIA floppy drive, PCMCIA floppy drives apparently do not work with Linux and I don't expect them to be supported for a while. It's possible to boot up from a PCMCIA floppy as the contents of the RAM disk are loaded using BIOS calls in real mode. In protected mode the floppy can't be accessed. To make it reasonably possible to install Linux on a machine with PCMCIA floppy and PCMCIA CD-ROM the best solution will be to allow installing the base files from SLIP or Zmodem (should only take 10-15 minutes at 115200bps). Once the base files are installed it shouldn't be difficult to setup a PCMCIA CD-ROM or Ethernet device to install the rest. Would PPP be enough? I've been thinking about moving PPP to the root disk (if there's enough space). About root disk space: I've been thinking about building 1.92 MB rescue floppies. AFAIK, those should work well with any 1.44MB floppy disk drive under Linux. Does anyone knows about problems with syslinux and special geometry floppies? -- Enrique Zanardi[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
On Tue, Oct 13, 1998 at 02:46:35PM +0200, Matthias Klose wrote: Maybe the subject is a bit harsh, but currently users trying to install Debian on a Notebook face more problems than users installing it on a desktop computer. Compared with other Linux distributions It worked very well for my one. - Provide a useful notebook-kernel-image and pcmcia-modules package. Wait a moment. Don't think a thinkpad is your standard notebook. Most others work really well. Abd thius include kernel as well as pcmcia. serious working on the road an apm aware kernel is needed. Or try to Right. I got this from compiling my own as I do anyway. and many other notebooks. And when I install a new kernel I have to recompile pcmcia-modules :-(, so I don't see any sense in the binary How else shall that work? pcmcia-modules package. Or is it provided for desktops with PCMCIA slots? And you often don't have the disk space to compile kernels on There is lot of sense. I did install my system via dselects apt method. That is I had to have my ethernet pcmcia card up and running. This was only possible because of the binary packages. And frankly at that point I don't cared about APM support. I sent some remarks to the maintainers of the kernel and pcmcia packages, but did not get many responses. Compared with other (german) distributions Debian lacks much notebook support. The things mentioned here could be improved although the solutions proposed have to be further polished and improved. But then we lead the others in several other areas. Does anyone else offer netenv? Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
Hi, As a counterpoint, my laptop, Digital HiNote VP 575, I could install the kernel-image-2.0.35 and the pcmcia images from the slink distribution, and they worked flawlessly. So there is some justification in having the pcmcia binay .deb files in the distribution. manoj -- Oh, that sound of male ego. You travel halfway across the galaxy and it's still the same song. Eve McHuron, Mudd's Women, stardate 1330.1 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
On Tue, Oct 13, 1998 at 02:46:35PM +0200, Matthias Klose wrote: Maybe the subject is a bit harsh, but currently users trying to install Debian on a Notebook face more problems than users installing it on a desktop computer. Compared with other Linux distributions Debian fails to install on some Notebooks (for example IBM Thinkpad 770) or requires handcrafted boot disks. All things that could be done independent of any release goal: You can definitely install it on a 770 - a friend at work has (envious - that's an understatement!!). If you're having particular problems I'm sure he'd help ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). I was only present part of the time, but I think the problems are: a) you must use the Tecra boot disks b) he had to boot with mem=159MB (he has 160MB) otherwise a kernel hang would occur c) getting the token-ring card identified as a TR card and not a memory card meant a downgrade to an old version of the pcmcia tools (which have to be patched into the kernel and compiled) I've told him to file the bugs (and I've filed one or two myself), but he insisted on trying to use dodgy kernel images (built on Slackware g) rather than trying the offical Tecra ones. Small disk partitions (8GB drive he's got IIRC - I said I was envious :-) apm-support for the images would be nice if it fits in. The number of people using redhat who just use the default kernel (and modules) is pretty high - I think this is great for reducing the pain level of Linux. Some links to the relevant pages would be useful - a troubleshooting link list perhaps? These links are some I point people to: A HREF=http://peipa.essex.ac.uk/tp-linux/tp-linux.html;Thinkpad/A A HREF=http://www.wwsi.com/linux-tp.html;Thinkpad problems/A A HREF=http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop;Laptops/A Adrian email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.poboxes.com/adrian.bridgett Windows NT - Unix in beta-testing. PGP key available on public key servers Avoid tiresome goat sacrifices -=- use Debian Linux http://www.debian.org
