Re: Getting current keymap

[Yann Dirson]

On Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 10:47:09AM +0200, Torsten Landschoff wrote:
>   3) S30checkfs.sh fails and bails out into a shell (using sulogin).
> 
> Currently the keyboard mapping is loaded in S05keymaps-lct.sh and I think 
> that's a good thing.

Thanks, good point.  I'll put this rationale into console-data's README.Debian.

Best regards,
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Re: Getting current keymap

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 07:56:36PM +0200, Miros/law `Jubal' Baran wrote:
 
> > That's why the includes are assembled into a self-contained keymap
> > which is stored in /etc. 
> 
> Only if you use pre-supplied keymaps. When you use customized ones[1] 
> it's not that easy.

Please explain. Why does the approach done by console-tools (load the
keymap and use dumpkeys to write a self contained one) cease to work
with customized keymaps?

> The best way to achieve this would be /lib/modules/telepathy.o ;-)

That would be bad since I can type faster than I can think ;-)

cu
Torsten


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Re: Getting current keymap

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 11:09:49PM +0200, Yann Dirson wrote:
> > Don't change that. Beginners would be very confused if the keytable is not
> > working as expected. Not everybody can work with a US keyboard table if the
> > need arises. 
> 
> In which cases is the user able to get to the shell before all rcS.d/
> scripts are run ?  I can only think of 2:
> 
> * init=/bin/sh or similar - keymap doesn't get set anyway
> * user interrupts the boot process with ^C

You are missing

  3) S30checkfs.sh fails and bails out into a shell (using sulogin).

Currently the keyboard mapping is loaded in S05keymaps-lct.sh and I think 
that's a good thing.

Greetings

Torsten


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Re: Getting current keymap

[Yann Dirson]

On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 10:46:34AM +0200, Torsten Landschoff wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 07:39:04PM +0200, Yann Dirson wrote:
>  
> > Probably this should be discussed here and if noone objects changed ASAP,
> > so that any problems get caught quickly.
> 
> Don't change that. Beginners would be very confused if the keytable is not
> working as expected. Not everybody can work with a US keyboard table if the
> need arises. 

In which cases is the user able to get to the shell before all rcS.d/
scripts are run ?  I can only think of 2:

* init=/bin/sh or similar - keymap doesn't get set anyway
* user interrupts the boot process with ^C

Or do I miss something - maybe I should re-read the scripts :)

> Debian should try to get more user friendly instead of getting uglier
> I think.

Yes.  that's the point :)
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Re: Getting current keymap

[Miros/law `Jubal' Baran]

12.09.2000 pisze Torsten Landschoff ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> That's why the includes are assembled into a self-contained keymap
> which is stored in /etc. 

Only if you use pre-supplied keymaps. When you use customized ones[1] 
it's not that easy.

> BTW: The "correct" approach to this would be to have a kernel with
> the right keymap as the default :)

The best way to achieve this would be /lib/modules/telepathy.o ;-)

best regards,
Jubal

[1] like me, another keys for mode_switch ([LWin/Menu], not [Alt]),
some extra characters directly from keyboard (FYI, I have german QWERTZ
keyboard with QWERTY polish layout and umlauts with mode_switch + usual
umlaut place on german keyboard). And I WANT MORE KEYS. 105 isn't too
many. ;-)

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Re: Getting current keymap

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:34:49PM +0200, Miros/law `Jubal' Baran wrote:
 
> Setting keymap _before_ /usr is mounted is an interesting approach to
> the system boot schema design, because include statements are in most
> keymap files (what can result in broken keymap).
> 
> Keyboard mapping should be set up early, but _after_ /usr partition is
> mounted. 

That's why the includes are assembled into a self-contained keymap which
is stored in /etc. 

BTW: The "correct" approach to this would be to have a kernel with the
right keymap as the default :)

cu
Torsten


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Re: Getting current keymap

[Peter Palfrader]

Hi Miros/law!

On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Miros/law `Jubal' Baran wrote:

> 12.09.2000 pisze Torsten Landschoff ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
> > Don't change that. Beginners would be very confused if the keytable
> > is not working as expected. Not everybody can work with a US keyboard
> > table if the need arises. 
> 
> > Debian should try to get more user friendly instead of getting uglier
> > I think.
> 
> Setting keymap _before_ /usr is mounted is an interesting approach to
> the system boot schema design, because include statements are in most
> keymap files (what can result in broken keymap).
> 
> Keyboard mapping should be set up early, but _after_ /usr partition is
> mounted. 

This may be correct from a technical POV. But it can be a horror
for a user.

e.g. the fsck on /usr fails and the user has to correct this problem by
manually running fsck and what else.

Having to enter the root password (that should contain special chars
after all) with a keyboard layout you're not used to and without
echoing can be /really/ difficult, if it is possible at all for our
user.

I think setting the keymap as early as possible is a good thing.

yours,
peter

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Re: Getting current keymap

[Miros/law `Jubal' Baran]

12.09.2000 pisze Torsten Landschoff ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> Don't change that. Beginners would be very confused if the keytable
> is not working as expected. Not everybody can work with a US keyboard
> table if the need arises. 

> Debian should try to get more user friendly instead of getting uglier
> I think.

Setting keymap _before_ /usr is mounted is an interesting approach to
the system boot schema design, because include statements are in most
keymap files (what can result in broken keymap).

Keyboard mapping should be set up early, but _after_ /usr partition is
mounted. 

best regards,
Jubal

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Re: Getting current keymap

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 07:39:04PM +0200, Yann Dirson wrote:
 
> Probably this should be discussed here and if noone objects changed ASAP,
> so that any problems get caught quickly.

Don't change that. Beginners would be very confused if the keytable is not
working as expected. Not everybody can work with a US keyboard table if the
need arises. 

Debian should try to get more user friendly instead of getting uglier
I think.

Thanks

Torsten


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Re: Getting current keymap

[Yann Dirson]

On Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 07:19:58PM +0200, Miros/law `Jubal' Baran wrote:
> 6.09.2000 pisze Renaud Guérin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
> > Is there something obvious I missed or is it really unfeasible ?
> 
> I looked at it and... (didn't do that before, because I used my own
> keymap, which doesn't need to include anything) and yes, setting keymap
> before mounting /usr is rather not the best example of package
> design...

Setting the keymap as soon as possible was a design choice done before I
ever headr about Debian, I think.  Whether it is still valid is an open
issue, as the reasons to do that were not kept anywhere I know of.

Probably this should be discussed here and if noone objects changed ASAP,
so that any problems get caught quickly.


> The whole console-tools font/keymap configuring scheme should be IMO
> completely redesigned (and re-thinked before)... giving f.ex. the
> possibility to add font/keymap packages and configure font/keymap
> without direct playing with /etc/console-tools/config...

I had started this before potato release, and started using debconf.
However I did that in a rather complicated way which needs to be rewritten,
which I have started to do - I did not put much time here however.

Basically, /etc/console-tools/config should end up being generated by the
postinst from debconf-entered information.

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Re: Getting current keymap

[Miros/law `Jubal' Baran]

6.09.2000 pisze Renaud Guérin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> Is there something obvious I missed or is it really unfeasible ?

I looked at it and... (didn't do that before, because I used my own
keymap, which doesn't need to include anything) and yes, setting keymap
before mounting /usr is rather not the best example of package
design...

The whole console-tools font/keymap configuring scheme should be IMO
completely redesigned (and re-thinked before)... giving f.ex. the
possibility to add font/keymap packages and configure font/keymap
without direct playing with /etc/console-tools/config...

Jubal

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