Re: Graphing Debian Lists
Hi! [Cc me on replies, I'm not subscribed] On Thu, Sep 20, 2001, Martin Schulze wrote: Gathering data happens all 30 minutes and I've let it run for a couple of days before making this annoncement, so there are some data to show. It looks strange that it seems that debian-devel-announce seem on the first look to have had no subscribers before you started. On the second look one sees that the bottom of the image is not zero. Could you please change it that it has the zero-point in the graph so the graphs can be looked in a _real_ manner and are not some hey - look at that curve! graphs? That's the first big lies that any statistic tries to make, and we shouldn't do that, IMHO. Even you might note on the most lists then just flat lines it makes more sense and doesn't leave the people like Hey, they just seem to have started that list, there is a high flow of subscritions in it... Just a thought. I like the graphs very much. It's meant constructive, not destructive. Thanks, Alfie -- You never learn anything | /\ ,'~~. by doing it right. | / chaos \ alfie.ist.org |o ?~\ -- unknown | \inside!/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] /_ ~\ | \_/ \__,~ \ pgpUi4RooZaex.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Graphing Debian Lists
Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: The graphs are indeed nice, what did you use to make them? The graphs say `rrdtool', which is a pretty good hint :) Indeed. Here's the source for the thing. http://cvs.infodrom.org/murphy/rrd-update?cvsroot=Infodrom-Tools Regards, Joey -- Let's call it an accidental feature. --Larry Wall Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.
Re: Graphing Debian Lists
Gerfried Fuchs wrote: Hi! [Cc me on replies, I'm not subscribed] On Thu, Sep 20, 2001, Martin Schulze wrote: Gathering data happens all 30 minutes and I've let it run for a couple of days before making this annoncement, so there are some data to show. It looks strange that it seems that debian-devel-announce seem on the first look to have had no subscribers before you started. On the second look one sees that the bottom of the image is not zero. Could you please change it that it has the zero-point in the graph so the graphs can be looked in a _real_ manner and are not some hey - look at that curve! graphs? That's the first big lies that any statistic tries to make, and we shouldn't do that, IMHO. Even you might note on the most lists then just flat lines it makes more sense and doesn't leave the people like Hey, they just seem to have started that list, there is a high flow of subscritions in it... That's not giving us anything. It doesn't draw a picture of the subscribe frequency, nor does it provide a better view of the number of subscribers. In fact, the graphs would be quite flat and uninteresting. The first version on murphy had them, since the rrdtool in potato was too old. As an example check out these two graphs of debian-announce. http://people.debian.org/~joey/stuff/debian-announce-distabs-month.png http://people.debian.org/~joey/stuff/debian-announce-distabs-normal-month.png Regards, Joey -- Let's call it an accidental feature. --Larry Wall Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.
Re: Graphing Debian Lists
Hi again. On Fri, Sep 21, 2001, Martin Schulze wrote: [zeropoint or not - that's the question] That's not giving us anything. It doesn't draw a picture of the subscribe frequency, nor does it provide a better view of the number of subscribers. Well, it _does_ draw a picture of subscribe frequency, related to all the people already subscribed. If you want a picture of just subscribe frequency, than make that: With the zero-point in the middle, and subscriptions add and unsubscribes substract from there. A graph for a statistic is worth nothing if it doesn't have the zero point in it. First unit statistics lesson. In fact, the graphs would be quite flat and uninteresting. The first But it would be a real graph. version on murphy had them, since the rrdtool in potato was too old. As an example check out these two graphs of debian-announce. http://people.debian.org/~joey/stuff/debian-announce-distabs-month.png http://people.debian.org/~joey/stuff/debian-announce-distabs-normal-month.png These doesn't seem to be the first graphs with the zero in it. So the still offer a false view of the state. I don't exactly know whom you want to impress with those false graphs or what you want to be able to see from it - but the current state seems to miss that, IMHO. Just my thoughts, nothing personal, as you should know. Go on like you like, personally I see it in this way quite useless. Alfie -- You never learn anything | /\ ,'~~. by doing it right. | / chaos \ alfie.ist.org |o ?~\ -- unknown | \inside!/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] /_ ~\ | \_/ \__,~ \
Re: Graphing Debian Lists
On Fri, Sep 21, 2001 at 10:38:48AM +0200, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: subscriptions add and unsubscribes substract from there. A graph for a statistic is worth nothing if it doesn't have the zero point in it. First unit statistics lesson. Rubbish. The correct lesson is to learn to always look at the scale before drawing conclusions. Once you've learnt that, graphs without a zero point have a place: they show more details. There is certainly no law against them. Zero-point graphs would make it easier to compare the different graphs, certainly, if that's what one wants to do. Personally the thing that jars me is the inconsistency: some graphs are scaled so that their vertical variation is more-or-less full range, whilst others take only a small percentage of the vertical height. But there is a limit to the amount of time it's fun to spent meddling with rrdtool options... Jules
Re: Graphing Debian Lists
On Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:24:34 +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: Dear Developers! I have taken the opportunity to create some nice (or not?) graphics of the mailing lists that Debian serves on lists.debian.org. I have analysed both the posting frequency and the total list of subscribers. Nicer looking than the ones I did last year... maybe you can take over the concept of the index page from mine and stick your graphs behind it since they're better? They've been available from the lists page for a while and are at: http://lists.debian.org/stats/ Regards, Nils. pgpBFX3GxM795.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Graphing Debian Lists
Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have taken the opportunity to create some nice (or not?) graphics of the mailing lists that Debian serves on lists.debian.org. I have analysed both the posting frequency and the total list of subscribers. The graphs are indeed nice, what did you use to make them? -- Marcelo | This signature was automatically generated with [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Signify v1.07. For this and other cool products, | check out http://www.debian.org/
Re: Graphing Debian Lists
Previously Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: The graphs are indeed nice, what did you use to make them? The graphs say `rrdtool', which is a pretty good hint :) Wichert. -- _ / Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool \ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ | | 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0 2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D |
