Re: FWD: Re: Linus is on a powertrip..
Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is from the linux kernel mailing list. I find it pretty completly sums op my thoughts on all the new constitution and voting and policy voting stuff that we've been setting up. I haven't been vocal about this, but I think we've been moving in the wrong direction. Perhaps. Remember that a lot of the focus on debian is still: the individual developer does the development. Debian as a whole doesn't *do* development, we do testing and coordination. But probably this is meaningful for projects like dpkg. Of course, this came up on linux kernel because Linus is showing signs of burnout - just like Bruce burnt out. The benevolent dicator system isn't perfect. Of course, Linus is now a father and has a full-time job. The demands of which are likely to reduce his sense of humor for people saying that it's too much work to send him a patch when he's getting so many that a number of them drop on the floor, and even those that don't may sit in his queue for a while. -- Raul
Re: Re: Linus is on a powertrip..
This is from the linux kernel mailing list. I find it pretty completly sums op my thoughts on all the new constitution and voting and policy voting stuff that we've been setting up. I haven't been vocal about this, but I think we've been moving in the wrong direction. Of course, this came up on linux kernel because Linus is showing signs of burnout - just like Bruce burnt out. The benevolent dicator system isn't perfect. The problem is that no matter what system we have, it will make some people unhappy. Even if we all could agree on someone to be the benevolent dictator, as soon as he/she made a decision contrary to some group of developers, there would be claims of tyranny and some developers would take their bat and balls and go home. Witness the latest bloodletting that involved three of the founding project members leaving after shouts of lawsuits and other hysteria against them. We should probably just try out the less-efficient voting system and see if that proves to be more popular. My $0.02 -Brent
Re: Re: Linus is on a powertrip..
Brent Fulgham writes: Witness the latest bloodletting that involved three of the founding project members leaving after shouts of lawsuits and other hysteria against them. The only mention of lawsuits that I recall was the fear expressed by them that they might be sued by a third party for the actions of another developer. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI
FWD: Re: Linus is on a powertrip..
This is from the linux kernel mailing list. I find it pretty completly sums op my thoughts on all the new constitution and voting and policy voting stuff that we've been setting up. I haven't been vocal about this, but I think we've been moving in the wrong direction. Of course, this came up on linux kernel because Linus is showing signs of burnout - just like Bruce burnt out. The benevolent dicator system isn't perfect. - Forwarded message from Larry McVoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry McVoy) Subject: Re: Linus is on a powertrip.. Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:31:21 -0600 : This all boils down to the old saying that the benevolent dictator is : the best form of government --- there's only one problem: finding the : benevolent dictator. Linus has, up till now, served as a very good : benevolent dictator. It may be that the job has been putting much : pressure on him, and we need to find ways of relieving this pressure, or : otherwise solving the problem. Amen. To all points. I've watched the *BSD stuff and Linux from the sidelines for years, all the way back to 386BSD - Bill Jolitz, Mr 386BSD, used to work for me. I'm so sold on the benevolent dictator model that I jumped on the Linux bandwagon soley because of that model. I was pushing linux back when Linux was utter and complete garbage by comparison to any of the *BSDs. It wasn't because Linux was better, it was because Linux was going to get better and the *BSDs were not necessarily going to get better. Everyone should stop and think hard about the benevolent dictator issue. It's absoutely the most efficient way to get things done and the committee approach just creates arguments. Yeah, we have our arguments here, but as Ted says, Linus gets to resolve them and that's the end of it (you don't hear a lot from about RT any more do you - Linus made the call, I don't like it, but that's the end of it - if this was *BSD we would be like the energizer bunny - still going, and going, and going). We have two problems to think about: 1) do as much as we can in the short term (1-5 years) to keep Linus offloaded enough that he stays interested and retains power. 2) start thinking now about grooming a replacement. That second one is dicy but it's inevitable that Linus will eventually want to leave his current role - it's just too much pressure to want for the rest of your life. Also, it's a sign of a healthy organization to have folks that could step up hanging around being groomed. It means that the organization is more important than the individual and I think that is the case here, with no disrrespect intended. The problem is - who would you groom? I can think of lots of people who would volunteer but most (all?) of them are also disqualified. It's an issue. I suspect that the grooming process would help. My two cents. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ - End forwarded message - -- see shy jo
Re: FWD: Re: Linus is on a powertrip..
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joey Hess) wrote on 02.10.98 in [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is from the linux kernel mailing list. I find it pretty completly sums op my thoughts on all the new constitution and voting and policy voting stuff that we've been setting up. I haven't been vocal about this, but I think we've been moving in the wrong direction. OTOH, *I* believe we're moving in the right direction because the past has shown that, for whatever reason, our social dynamics are such that the original model doesn't work for us. Incidentally, I think the reasons are actually obvious once you think about it. With Linux, Linus is the one that keeps the kernel source. He decides about every bit that goes in. Debian, OTOH, doesn't have any comparable position, and in all the time I've been here (since .99something), it never had one. Oh, it may have had one in the very beginning, but if so, it was already abandoned back in the .99something days. To put it a different way ... Linus is the main developer for Linux. That makes him a good benevolent dictator. Debian does not have a main developer; Ian has a political, not a technical, job. Linus *acts* as a dictator. He dictates what goes into the kernel, and what doesn't. Debian has nothing comparable. There is no instance we have to pass to get stuff into the distribution. Indeed. I suspect many developers would leave were there such a choke point. Linux kernel development is almost completely different from Debian distribution development. That's why Ian's job description differs from Linus'. MfG Kai
Re: FWD: Re: Linus is on a powertrip..
Kai Henningsen wrote: Linus is the main developer for Linux. That makes him a good benevolent dictator. Debian does not have a main developer; Ian has a political, not a technical, job. Linus's position is just as political as Ian's, it's just not so obvious because the difference in the development models keep the politics queter, and resolves issues faster without as much debate. -- see shy jo
