Re: Missing: Mobile Debian-Solution referring to Smartphone Operating Systems (Alternative to Google/Android OS)
On 8/16/18 5:24 AM, Paul Wise wrote: > On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 12:31 AM, Steffen Möller wrote: > >> Would it make sense to join the >> https://docs.automotivelinux.org/docs/getting_started/en/dev/reference/homescreen/index.html >> crowd? > Automotive and mobile are quite different form factors. Also, I'd > expect that even if a car was running a Debian derivative or another > Linux distribution, it would be locked down (either technically or via > legal instruments) such that one could never gain control over the > system to install plain Debian. I do not necessarily want Debian in my car. But I could well imagine that I want to continue working with an application that I had worked with during a plane or train or car ride. > That said, packaging AGL or other > automotive components could be useful if we want to attract > manufacturers to basing their systems on Debian and sponsoring > DebConf. For end-users though, probably not so much. It could well be in the interest of car manufacturers to see more of their applications on people's desktops, indeed. Cheers, Steffen
Re: Missing: Mobile Debian-Solution referring to Smartphone Operating Systems (Alternative to Google/Android OS)
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 12:31 AM, Steffen Möller wrote: > Would it make sense to join the > https://docs.automotivelinux.org/docs/getting_started/en/dev/reference/homescreen/index.html > crowd? Automotive and mobile are quite different form factors. Also, I'd expect that even if a car was running a Debian derivative or another Linux distribution, it would be locked down (either technically or via legal instruments) such that one could never gain control over the system to install plain Debian. That said, packaging AGL or other automotive components could be useful if we want to attract manufacturers to basing their systems on Debian and sponsoring DebConf. For end-users though, probably not so much. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: Missing: Mobile Debian-Solution referring to Smartphone Operating Systems (Alternative to Google/Android OS)
On 8/15/18 1:53 PM, Paul Wise wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Steffen Möller wrote: > >> https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianFSO may be worth a look. I mean, we >> once had the complete stack in Debian. I do not think that work >> transitioned to salsa. > The packages have been removed from Debian already and upstream isn't > really active any more. The whole stack from the OpenMoko days, all > the way down to apps and games has bitrotten and or disappeared from > the web. Would it make sense to join the https://docs.automotivelinux.org/docs/getting_started/en/dev/reference/homescreen/index.html crowd? https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/elc-openiot-europe-2018/ has last year's keynote. Steffen
Re: Missing: Mobile Debian-Solution referring to Smartphone Operating Systems (Alternative to Google/Android OS)
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Steffen Möller wrote: > https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianFSO may be worth a look. I mean, we > once had the complete stack in Debian. I do not think that work > transitioned to salsa. The packages have been removed from Debian already and upstream isn't really active any more. The whole stack from the OpenMoko days, all the way down to apps and games has bitrotten and or disappeared from the web. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: Missing: Mobile Debian-Solution referring to Smartphone Operating Systems (Alternative to Google/Android OS)
Hello, On 8/15/18 12:30 PM, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > Dear Andreas, > > Quoting Andreas Jakowidis : >> Because of a long experience in developing Debian-Software since the >> year >> 1995 it would be >> important/necessary for everyone if you could offer Debian also as a >> mobile >> solution >> for smartphone hardware in near future. > > Debian has a long history on mobile devices, going back to the Nokia > N770¹ > and the OpenMoko². For current developments, please check the Debian > mobile > wiki page³, mailing list⁴ and IRC channel⁵. https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianFSO may be worth a look. I mean, we once had the complete stack in Debian. I do not think that work transitioned to salsa. Cheers, Steffen > > Recent mobile devices running Debian or similar are the e.g. GPD Pocket⁶, > the Purism Librem 5⁷ (maybe available next year), or the Pyra Handheld⁸ > (maybe available this year). > > There are also developers trying to run Debian on different Android > devices, > with different levels of success. Very often, it is not possible to > update > the kernel, because drivers are not upstreamed or even non-free. > > Cheers, Martin > > ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_770_Internet_Tablet > ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko > ³ https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile > ⁴ https://lists.debian.org/debian-mobile/ > ⁵ #debian-mobile on irc.oftc.net > ⁶ http://www.gpd.hk/gpdpocket > ⁷ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ > ⁸ https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/ >
Re: Missing: Mobile Debian-Solution referring to Smartphone Operating Systems (Alternative to Google/Android OS)
Dear Andreas, Quoting Andreas Jakowidis : Because of a long experience in developing Debian-Software since the year 1995 it would be important/necessary for everyone if you could offer Debian also as a mobile solution for smartphone hardware in near future. Debian has a long history on mobile devices, going back to the Nokia N770¹ and the OpenMoko². For current developments, please check the Debian mobile wiki page³, mailing list⁴ and IRC channel⁵. Recent mobile devices running Debian or similar are the e.g. GPD Pocket⁶, the Purism Librem 5⁷ (maybe available next year), or the Pyra Handheld⁸ (maybe available this year). There are also developers trying to run Debian on different Android devices, with different levels of success. Very often, it is not possible to update the kernel, because drivers are not upstreamed or even non-free. Cheers, Martin ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_770_Internet_Tablet ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko ³ https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile ⁴ https://lists.debian.org/debian-mobile/ ⁵ #debian-mobile on irc.oftc.net ⁶ http://www.gpd.hk/gpdpocket ⁷ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ ⁸ https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/
Re: Missing: Mobile Debian-Solution referring to Smartphone Operating Systems (Alternative to Google/Android OS)
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Andreas Jakowidis wrote: > Because of a long experience in developing Debian-Software since the year > 1995 it would be > important/necessary for everyone if you could offer Debian also as a mobile > solution > for smartphone hardware in near future. This is a very difficult problem due to the lack of support for these devices in the mainline Linux kernel and userspace hardware support. Things are moving slowly on that front, with most work being done outside of Debian upstream and in other distros. Please take a look these pages: https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile https://postmarketos.org/ > So that everyone get the choice to substitute Google OS with a Debian Mobile > OS. Not all mobile device makers will allow the installation of alternative operating systems. In particular Apple and Huawei and probably more are blocking this. https://www.xda-developers.com/xda-huawei-decision-stop-bootloader-unlocking/ > An own developed debian-based mobile-hardware is a further option. Debian does not do hardware development but there are some folks doing potentially useful hardware that could run Debian at some point in the future: https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://www.pyra-handheld.com/ https://zerophone.org/ https://neo900.org/ -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
