Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005, Pascal Hakim wrote: In my experience as a listmaster, the people who like to complain about the fact that we add a signature on the bottom of every email, will usually find a number of other things they dislike. [...] That's funny. I don't like the high number of spam messages I receive from the lists. Does that mean I am wrong by thinking that we should not add a footer to every message? Placing a footer in list traffic is a compromise between modifying messages as little as possible and trying to help people find a way to get their questions answered. A bad compromise, I would say. The footer is harmful for a number of reasons (for example, it ends up being quoted over and over again in some threads, and we already have RFC-compliant headers for that). Those who know how to unsubscribe should not pay the price for those who don't know. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 01:08:33PM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote: On Wed, 29 Jun 2005, Pascal Hakim wrote: Placing a footer in list traffic is a compromise between modifying messages as little as possible and trying to help people find a way to get their questions answered. A bad compromise, I would say. The footer is harmful for a number of reasons (for example, it ends up being quoted over and over again in some threads, and we already have RFC-compliant headers for that). Those who know how to unsubscribe should not pay the price for those who don't know. Would you rather that every one of those people email the list asking what steps they have to take to get off? Realistically, I believe the benefits of having it there outweigh the negatives. While I understand that you don't agree with me, blindly repeating your arguments will not change my mind. If you care that deeply about it, you can either find someone else who'll listen to you, find some new arguments, or take it up to the tech committee. Cheers, Pasc -- Pascal Hakim 0403 411 672 Do Not Bend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:14:33AM -0400, Josh Metzler wrote: On Tuesday 28 June 2005 08:25 am, Olaf van der Spek wrote: ... So they expect something to be available without depending on a package that provides it? Sounds like a bug. Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ended after the text quoted above, without the usual signature describing how to unsubscribe from debian-devel. Was this the case for everyone, or is there something between the debian servers and my mail client that occasionally (but very rarely) strips signatures? Hmmm... same thing here. -- Daniel Jacobowitz CodeSourcery, LLC -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 10:59 -0400, Daniel Jacobowitz wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:14:33AM -0400, Josh Metzler wrote: On Tuesday 28 June 2005 08:25 am, Olaf van der Spek wrote: ... So they expect something to be available without depending on a package that provides it? Sounds like a bug. Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ended after the text quoted above, without the usual signature describing how to unsubscribe from debian-devel. Was this the case for everyone, or is there something between the debian servers and my mail client that occasionally (but very rarely) strips signatures? Hmmm... same thing here. I see it at the end of your email: -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] The way it was explained to me on the Evolution ML is that the disappearing unsub message only happens only happens to emails that have attachments. For example, digital signatures. The ML manager blindly tacks the unsub text to the end of the email, and the MUA doesn't see it, because it only knows to process the attachments (text/plain application/pgp-signature being 99.99% of the attachments to emails on this list). View the raw source of such a disappearing unsub message email, and you will see that the text is there. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Confidence is contagious. So is lack of confidence. Vince Lombardi signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:18:16AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:14:33AM -0400, Josh Metzler wrote: without the usual signature describing how to unsubscribe from debian-devel. Was this the case for everyone, or is there something between the debian servers and my mail client that occasionally (but very rarely) strips signatures? I see it at the end of your email: The way it was explained to me on the Evolution ML is that the disappearing unsub message only happens only happens to emails that have attachments. For example, digital signatures. The ML manager blindly tacks the unsub text to the end of the email, and the MUA doesn't see it, because it only knows to process the attachments (text/plain application/pgp-signature being 99.99% of the attachments to emails on this list). View the raw source of such a disappearing unsub message email, and you will see that the text is there. Nope. -- Lionel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 05:23:58PM +0200, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:18:16AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:14:33AM -0400, Josh Metzler wrote: without the usual signature describing how to unsubscribe from debian-devel. Was this the case for everyone, or is there something between the debian servers and my mail client that occasionally (but very rarely) strips signatures? I see it at the end of your email: The way it was explained to me on the Evolution ML is that the disappearing unsub message only happens only happens to emails that have attachments. For example, digital signatures. The ML manager blindly tacks the unsub text to the end of the email, and the MUA doesn't see it, because it only knows to process the attachments (text/plain application/pgp-signature being 99.99% of the attachments to emails on this list). View the raw source of such a disappearing unsub message email, and you will see that the text is there. Nope. It doesn't include it in some cases where it knows it won't show. Cheers, Pasc -- Pascal Hakim 0403 411 672 Do Not Bend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 01:25 +1000, Pascal Hakim wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 05:23:58PM +0200, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:18:16AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:14:33AM -0400, Josh Metzler wrote: without the usual signature describing how to unsubscribe from debian-devel. Was this the case for everyone, or is there something between the debian servers and my mail client that occasionally (but very rarely) strips signatures? I see it at the end of your email: The way it was explained to me on the Evolution ML is that the disappearing unsub message only happens only happens to emails that have attachments. For example, digital signatures. The ML manager blindly tacks the unsub text to the end of the email, and the MUA doesn't see it, because it only knows to process the attachments (text/plain application/pgp-signature being 99.99% of the attachments to emails on this list). View the raw source of such a disappearing unsub message email, and you will see that the text is there. Nope. It doesn't include it in some cases where it knows it won't show. I wonder what it's rule set is. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Peace is normally a great good, and normally it coincides with righteousness, but it is righteousness and not peace which should bind the conscience of a nation as it should bind the conscience of an individual; and neither a nation nor an individual can surrender conscience to another's keeping. Theodore Roosevelt signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:33:27AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 01:25 +1000, Pascal Hakim wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 05:23:58PM +0200, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:18:16AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:14:33AM -0400, Josh Metzler wrote: without the usual signature describing how to unsubscribe from debian-devel. Was this the case for everyone, or is there something between the debian servers and my mail client that occasionally (but very rarely) strips signatures? I see it at the end of your email: The way it was explained to me on the Evolution ML is that the disappearing unsub message only happens only happens to emails that have attachments. For example, digital signatures. The ML manager blindly tacks the unsub text to the end of the email, and the MUA doesn't see it, because it only knows to process the attachments (text/plain application/pgp-signature being 99.99% of the attachments to emails on this list). View the raw source of such a disappearing unsub message email, and you will see that the text is there. Nope. It doesn't include it in some cases where it knows it won't show. I wonder what it's rule set is. :0 fbw * ! ^Content-Transfer-Encoding:.*base64 * ! ^Content-Transfer-Encoding:.*quoted-printable | cat - footer.txt realistically, we should be checking if it's a multipart message and adding a block if this is the case. Pasc -- Pascal Hakim 0403 411 672 Do Not Bend signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
Pascal Hakim wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: I wonder what it's rule set is. :0 fbw * ! ^Content-Transfer-Encoding:.*base64 * ! ^Content-Transfer-Encoding:.*quoted-printable | cat - footer.txt The Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] message asked about was encoded with a content transfer encoding of quoted-printable. Therefore the rule above avoided attaching a footer to the message. This explains the question about the anomaly. I guess if you don't want a footer on your messages you can always send them out with a quoted-printable encoding. :-) Of course base64 works too, but that is a strong spam sign and your message might get dropped by people scoring based upon that so I would recommend against using base64 encoding for plain text messages. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:09:17AM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote: Pascal Hakim wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: I wonder what it's rule set is. :0 fbw * ! ^Content-Transfer-Encoding:.*base64 * ! ^Content-Transfer-Encoding:.*quoted-printable | cat - footer.txt The Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] message asked about was encoded with a content transfer encoding of quoted-printable. Therefore the rule above avoided attaching a footer to the message. This explains the question about the anomaly. I guess if you don't want a footer on your messages you can always send them out with a quoted-printable encoding. :-) Of course base64 works too, but that is a strong spam sign and your message might get dropped by people scoring based upon that so I would recommend against using base64 encoding for plain text messages. In my experience as a listmaster, the people who like to complain about the fact that we add a signature on the bottom of every email, will usually find a number of other things they dislike. Placing a footer in list traffic is a compromise between modifying messages as little as possible and trying to help people find a way to get their questions answered. Cheers, Pasc -- Pascal Hakim 0403 411 672 Do Not Bend signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: OT: No unsubscribe signature?
Pascal Hakim wrote: Bob Proulx wrote: I guess if you don't want a footer on your messages you can always send them out with a quoted-printable encoding. :-) In my experience as a listmaster, the people who like to complain about the fact that we add a signature on the bottom of every email, will usually find a number of other things they dislike. Placing a footer in list traffic is a compromise between modifying messages as little as possible and trying to help people find a way to get their questions answered. I was not really complaining about the list footer. I understand the frequency with which people are clueless about mailing lists and so something needs to be done to make it so blatently in their face that when they still fail to get it that they have no excuse. They will still miss it but they will just have no excuse. I was just making a humorous observation about how it was possible to avoid the footer. Not really complaining about the footer at all. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
