Re: On doing 3000 no-source-change source-only uploads in January 2021
On 2021-01-04 at 04:27, Adrian Bunk wrote: > On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 02:16:23PM +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: > >> Although the high number of packages makes me wonder, if at least a >> quick MIA check of the maintainers is warranted, or - if those packages >> are needed in bullseye at all. > > Maintainership status is a very poor indicator whether users might need > a package. > > Some obscure stuff is well maintained, like m68k and Hurd being among > our architectures with the most active maintainers. > > It is very hard and high effort for people who are not already active in > Debian development to get a change into Debian or take responsibility > for a package. Debian is not a welcoming place for new contributors. > > A normal user won't even notice that an important package is missing > before bullseye is stable. As a demonstrating example of this last point: I track testing, rather than stable, and subscribe to debian-devel, and therefore am not even a "normal" user in this sense. A package I use regularly (moosic) was removed from testing back in November of 2019, and from unstable back in April of 2020. I didn't notice anything until October or November of 2020 (when the Python 3 transition tried to remove the package from my computer), and didn't realize that what I had noticed meant the package had been removed from the archive - even testing, much less unstable - until December of 2020. I've adopted it upstream (it had been abandoned by its original author back in 2011) and fixed the issues which had led to its removal, and its Debian maintainer - who hadn't noticed the removal from unstable either, until looking at it again after I provided a new upstream version - has agreed to handle the packaging again, but it's not at all clear whether it'll be ready and make it through NEW again ahead of the release freeze. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: On doing 3000 no-source-change source-only uploads in January 2021
On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 02:16:23PM +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: >... > Although the high number of packages makes me wonder, if at least a > quick MIA check of the maintainers is warranted, or - if those packages > are needed in bullseye at all. >... Maintainership status is a very poor indicator whether users might need a package. Some obscure stuff is well maintained, like m68k and Hurd being among our architectures with the most active maintainers. It is very hard and high effort for people who are not already active in Debian development to get a change into Debian or take responsibility for a package. Debian is not a welcoming place for new contributors. A normal user won't even notice that an important package is missing before bullseye is stable. > Bernd cu Adrian
Re: On doing 3000 no-source-change source-only uploads in January 2021
On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 08:14:20PM +0100, Eduard Bloch wrote: > You might want to update your database and rerun that analysis. At least > one of the packages was updated following the current rules a few days > ago. > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/mail-expire well, the list is correct from the POV I care about: packages in *testing* without .buildinfo files - you've thankfully just uploaded mail-expire to unstable, so soon the fix will land in testing :) that said, Ivo just gave me an updated filter ignoring packages which have a different version in unstable, so from now on I will use that and thus I'll be happily ignoring packages which have been fixed in unstable recently. Today I've went through the first 114 packages from the list of 3051 packages posted here yesterday and I only had to upload 107 packages, because 7 packages (of those 114) have been uploaded very recently. Yay & thank you for that! -- cheers, Holger ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C ⠈⠳⣄ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: On doing 3000 no-source-change source-only uploads in January 2021
Hi Holger, On 31/12/2020 13:50, Holger Levsen wrote: > hi, > > as described in Message-ID: <20201231124509.gb3...@layer-acht.org> > or > http://layer-acht.org/thinking/blog/20201231-no-source-change-source-uploads/ > I plan to do 3000 NMUs soon. > > Attached is the list of affected packages, maintainers and uploaders. Please > check > if you are on it and if so, please help me by uploading these packages before > me. Thanks for working on this! I added an item to pkg-perl Team "Low Hanging Fruit" monthly meeting [1] agenda [2], which will happen on Jan 21th. I don't think I can commit to do some of them before that date, or guarantee all will be done after the meeting, but I'll try my best to participate in this effort. Cheers, -- nodens [1] https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianPerlGroup/LHF [2] https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianPerlGroup/LHF/Agenda
Re: On doing 3000 no-source-change source-only uploads in January 2021
Hello Holger, I will do my part myself ASAP Kind regards Mechtilde Am 31.12.20 um 14:21 schrieb Holger Levsen: > Hi Bernd, > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 02:16:23PM +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: >>> as described in Message-ID: <20201231124509.gb3...@layer-acht.org> >>> or >>> http://layer-acht.org/thinking/blog/20201231-no-source-change-source-uploads/ >>> I plan to do 3000 NMUs soon. >> Thanks for your work! > > thanks! > >> Although the high number of packages makes me wonder, if at least a >> quick MIA check of the maintainers is warranted, or - if those packages >> are needed in bullseye at all. >> Of course, there are some packages which are working just fine with the >> same source for years, but at least some debhelper/compat or policy >> check and upload at some point makes sense. >> >> I think Debian should sometimes be better and faster in removing >> unmaintained stuff. > > while I agree in principle I have to say that in practice it's not doable > for me, uploading 3000 packages doing just the basic checks that I do is a > major task already, if I add any other QA measure which requieres human > consideration (like removal) it becomes a much much bigger task, deluting > my original goal of fixing the issue of missing .buildinfo files. Even > just running lintian-brush would at least double the amount, though I believe > the impact would be even higher. > > that said, I filed a bug to get src:embedian-archive-keyring removed from > sid and then bullseye. That was one striking example I found going through > those first 570 packages... > > -- Mechtilde Stehmann ## Apache OpenOffice ## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows und OS/2 ## Debian Developer ## PGP encryption welcome ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899 39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: On doing 3000 no-source-change source-only uploads in January 2021
Hallo, * Holger Levsen [Thu, Dec 31 2020, 12:50:30PM]: > as described in Message-ID: <20201231124509.gb3...@layer-acht.org> > or > http://layer-acht.org/thinking/blog/20201231-no-source-change-source-uploads/ > I plan to do 3000 NMUs soon. > > Attached is the list of affected packages, maintainers and uploaders. Please > check > if you are on it and if so, please help me by uploading these packages before > me. You might want to update your database and rerun that analysis. At least one of the packages was updated following the current rules a few days ago. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/mail-expire Apart from that, thanks for tackling this. Best regards, enjoy NYE and have a good start into 2021! Eduard.
Re: On doing 3000 no-source-change source-only uploads in January 2021
Hi Bernd, On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 02:16:23PM +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: > > as described in Message-ID: <20201231124509.gb3...@layer-acht.org> > > or > > http://layer-acht.org/thinking/blog/20201231-no-source-change-source-uploads/ > > I plan to do 3000 NMUs soon. > Thanks for your work! thanks! > Although the high number of packages makes me wonder, if at least a > quick MIA check of the maintainers is warranted, or - if those packages > are needed in bullseye at all. > Of course, there are some packages which are working just fine with the > same source for years, but at least some debhelper/compat or policy > check and upload at some point makes sense. > > I think Debian should sometimes be better and faster in removing > unmaintained stuff. while I agree in principle I have to say that in practice it's not doable for me, uploading 3000 packages doing just the basic checks that I do is a major task already, if I add any other QA measure which requieres human consideration (like removal) it becomes a much much bigger task, deluting my original goal of fixing the issue of missing .buildinfo files. Even just running lintian-brush would at least double the amount, though I believe the impact would be even higher. that said, I filed a bug to get src:embedian-archive-keyring removed from sid and then bullseye. That was one striking example I found going through those first 570 packages... -- cheers, Holger ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C ⠈⠳⣄ There are no jobs on a dead planet. (Also many other things but people mostly seem to care about jobs.) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: On doing 3000 no-source-change source-only uploads in January 2021
Hi Holger, > > as described in Message-ID: <20201231124509.gb3...@layer-acht.org> > or > http://layer-acht.org/thinking/blog/20201231-no-source-change-source-uploads/ > I plan to do 3000 NMUs soon. Thanks for your work! Although the high number of packages makes me wonder, if at least a quick MIA check of the maintainers is warranted, or - if those packages are needed in bullseye at all. Of course, there are some packages which are working just fine with the same source for years, but at least some debhelper/compat or policy check and upload at some point makes sense. I think Debian should sometimes be better and faster in removing unmaintained stuff. Bernd -- Bernd ZeimetzDebian GNU/Linux Developer http://bzed.dehttp://www.debian.org GPG Fingerprint: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485 DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F
Re: On doing 3000 no-source-change source-only uploads in January 2021
Le jeudi, 31 décembre 2020, 13.50:30 h CET Holger Levsen a écrit : > hi, > > as described in Message-ID: <20201231124509.gb3...@layer-acht.org> > or > http://layer-acht.org/thinking/blog/20201231-no-source-change-source-upload > s/ I plan to do 3000 NMUs soon. Fantastic job, thanks a lot for doing it! -- OdyX signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
