Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
* Adrian Bunk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050401 23:35]: On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 03:48:00PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: ... Major changes in etch - If you intend to make major changes (like a C++ ABI bump) during the development of etch, please speak with the release team as soon as possible, describing the changes you're planning and why. This way, we can help you to make your transitions as smooth as possible, ensuring that packages go quickly into testing/etch, don't hold up other packages or the release in general, and don't take us by surprise. We would appreciate it if you could send these emails before the end of April to [EMAIL PROTECTED] If not, the release team should also send the information required for this: When is the estimated freeze date for etch? As written by Steve on d-d-a recently: We plan 12-18 months for etch. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 04:15:40PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: * Adrian Bunk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050401 23:35]: On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 03:48:00PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: ... Major changes in etch - If you intend to make major changes (like a C++ ABI bump) during the development of etch, please speak with the release team as soon as possible, describing the changes you're planning and why. This way, we can help you to make your transitions as smooth as possible, ensuring that packages go quickly into testing/etch, don't hold up other packages or the release in general, and don't take us by surprise. We would appreciate it if you could send these emails before the end of April to [EMAIL PROTECTED] If not, the release team should also send the information required for this: When is the estimated freeze date for etch? As written by Steve on d-d-a recently: We plan 12-18 months for etch. Why do you need to know about all transitions this month if Debian 3.2 is scheduled for the end of 2006 or 2007? Can't this in the case of e.g. the C++ ABI bump cause the same problems as with Debian 3.1 that you transition too early and might have with the same amount of work done an even bigger ABI bump? Cheers, Andi cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 04:52:29PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: Why do you need to know about all transitions this month if Debian 3.2 is scheduled for the end of 2006 or 2007? ... so that the release team can plan ahead a bit? Gee. -- EARTH smog | bricks AIR -- mud -- FIRE soda water | tequila WATER -- with thanks to fortune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 01:17:54AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 04:52:29PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: Why do you need to know about all transitions this month if Debian 3.2 is scheduled for the end of 2006 or 2007? ... so that the release team can plan ahead a bit? It's funny that the release team needs to know about transitions for etch that might occur in 2006 now, while even the freeze date for sarge isn't yet announced. Why are the people who want information that much in advance the same people that announce freeze dates 6 days before the start of the freeze? A _realistic_ [1] sarge timeline announced _in time_ [2] was IMHO of much higher value than planning post-sarge transitions. cu Adrian [1] no aggressive goals and double-checked that all release milestones are achievable [2] so that Debian maintainers know before the upload when low urgency uploads will have no chance of getting into sarge -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 01:50:53 +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 01:17:54AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 04:52:29PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: Why do you need to know about all transitions this month if Debian 3.2 is scheduled for the end of 2006 or 2007? ... so that the release team can plan ahead a bit? It's funny that the release team needs to know about transitions for etch that might occur in 2006 now, while even the freeze date for sarge isn't yet announced. It's also funny that people want debian to release so bad, and yet fight the release team at every announcement. I don't see a problem with wanting to know as much about transitions and migrations in advance as possible. I'm sure there will be additional transitions/migrations that come up during etch development, but the more the release team knows about, the better prepared they can be to propose deadlines and release estimates. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
Andres Salomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's also funny that people want debian to release so bad, and yet fight the release team at every announcement. I don't see a problem with wanting to know as much about transitions and migrations in advance as possible. I'm sure there will be additional transitions/migrations that come up during etch development, but the more the release team knows about, the better prepared they can be to propose deadlines and release estimates. Well, I want it to release so bad, and I'm delighted for these announcements. Keep 'em coming, and don't let the other people stop you. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 12:35:55AM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: Adrian Bunk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It doesn't need to be an exact date, but someting like third quarter of 2005 or mid-2008 would help to avoid situations like the sarge C++ transition that was too early [1] or the more than two years old X11 that will ship with sarge (and that doesn't support all hardware supported by recent X.org releases) [2]. (snip) [1] the first birthday of gcc 3.4.0 is only a few days from now The C++ ABI was broken with gcc 3.2.0. For most architectures, 3.4.0 doesn't change anything. Is your point anything other than The Debian release process is broken and you should get rid of testing? If not, we've heard that several times already. It doesn't need reiterating. Where did I say that these problems had anything to do with testing? It seems you are one of the people who think You don't like testing so everything you are saying has to be wrong.. Please check the facts: gcc 3.4 has a different C++ ABI compared to gcc 3.2/3.3 on _all_ architectures [1]. cu Adrian [1] look at libstdc++5 - libstdc++6 -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
Adrian Bunk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please check the facts: gcc 3.4 has a different C++ ABI compared to gcc 3.2/3.3 on _all_ architectures [1]. I'm sorry, you're completely right. I must have been thinking of 3.3. -- Matthew Garrett | [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 03:48:00PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: Debian Installer RC3, kernels - The RC3 release of the debian-installer has been published. As Joey Hess mentions in his announcement[0], this has been the best-tested Debian Installer release candidate to date and it continues to hold up under scrutiny, and the release team will be proud to use it as the installer for sarge. Thanks to the Debian-Installer team for their great work. ARM buildd lossage -- By the time you read this, at least one fast ARM buildd is back on-line and started to catch up; more buildds are to come. testing-proposed-updates, testing-security -- Getting testing-security up has steady progress. OpenSSH 3.9 was successfully compiled with woody's toolchain, and the connection reusing feature from 3.9 is now being used by some buildds to find any remaining issues. Freeze ahead On a related note, we are now down to 90 open RC bugs in sarge -- and many thanks to everyone who has worked so tirelessly to beat these bugs into submission. Too bad it is only an April fool joke... Cheers, -- Bill. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Imagine a large red swirl here. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:32:25 +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 03:48:00PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: Debian Installer RC3, kernels - The RC3 release of the debian-installer has been published. As Joey Hess mentions in his announcement[0], this has been the best-tested Debian Installer release candidate to date and it continues to hold up under scrutiny, and the release team will be proud to use it as the installer for sarge. Thanks to the Debian-Installer team for their great work. ARM buildd lossage -- By the time you read this, at least one fast ARM buildd is back on-line and started to catch up; more buildds are to come. testing-proposed-updates, testing-security -- Getting testing-security up has steady progress. OpenSSH 3.9 was successfully compiled with woody's toolchain, and the connection reusing feature from 3.9 is now being used by some buildds to find any remaining issues. Freeze ahead On a related note, we are now down to 90 open RC bugs in sarge -- and many thanks to everyone who has worked so tirelessly to beat these bugs into submission. Too bad it is only an April fool joke... Cheers, Look again at bugs.debian.org/release-critical, or the automatic mail of release-critical bugs that gets sent out every Friday. At the very least, this last part is true. --Ken Bloom -- I usually have a GPG digital signature included as an attachment. See http://www.gnupg.org/ for info about these digital signatures. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With these changes done, we are now on the home stretch for the sarge release. We are now only waiting on the arm buildds to recover and catch up to a reasonable extent, and on one last glibc upload -- and then sarge is FREEZING. This is, therefore, the last call for uploads for sarge: if you have any final important changes to your packages which you think need to make it into sarge, upload them now or never. What about uploads that I did a while ago specifically for the purpose of sarge, but which haven't gotten through NEW processing? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 03:48:00PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: ... Major changes in etch - If you intend to make major changes (like a C++ ABI bump) during the development of etch, please speak with the release team as soon as possible, describing the changes you're planning and why. This way, we can help you to make your transitions as smooth as possible, ensuring that packages go quickly into testing/etch, don't hold up other packages or the release in general, and don't take us by surprise. We would appreciate it if you could send these emails before the end of April to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is this an April Fool joke? If not, the release team should also send the information required for this: When is the estimated freeze date for etch? It doesn't need to be an exact date, but someting like third quarter of 2005 or mid-2008 would help to avoid situations like the sarge C++ transition that was too early [1] or the more than two years old X11 that will ship with sarge (and that doesn't support all hardware supported by recent X.org releases) [2]. And please learn from past release management mistakes and announce a _realistic_ estimated freeze date for etch [3]. ... Keeping track of RC bugs in testing --- Since BTS version tracking is a post-sarge feature, we depend on your help to keep track of RC bugs that have been fixed in unstable but not testing. Over the past few months, we've been tracking these bugs mainly through the use of reopened, sarge-tagged bug reports. You can continue to use this method to let the release team know about release-critical issues, but we would encourage you to use http://www.wolffelaar.nl/~sarge/ to send us comments on the importance of particular updates waiting in testing. This applies not just to release-critical issues (which should be marked as critical on that page), but also to important ones (and minor ones, if you feel inclined). For usage information about this site, please see the previous announcement concerning it[1]. For the record: I started doing this during the last days [4]. RC bugs are IMHO better since they also show up in your RC bugs metric. Cheers, Andi Barth cu Adrian [1] the first birthday of gcc 3.4.0 is only a few days from now [2] the outdated X11 problem was already present in woody where XFree86 4.2 might have been included [3] and avoid the non-working aggressive goals [5] [4] that's extra work only required by the usage of testing and version tracking in the BTS alone will not be sufficient to handle this - but that's a different discussion [5] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/08/msg00010.html -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release update: debian-installer, kernels, infrastructure, freeze, etch, arm
Adrian Bunk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It doesn't need to be an exact date, but someting like third quarter of 2005 or mid-2008 would help to avoid situations like the sarge C++ transition that was too early [1] or the more than two years old X11 that will ship with sarge (and that doesn't support all hardware supported by recent X.org releases) [2]. (snip) [1] the first birthday of gcc 3.4.0 is only a few days from now The C++ ABI was broken with gcc 3.2.0. For most architectures, 3.4.0 doesn't change anything. Is your point anything other than The Debian release process is broken and you should get rid of testing? If not, we've heard that several times already. It doesn't need reiterating. -- Matthew Garrett | [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
