Re: Uninformative hyperlink in O: (package orphaning) bug reports
On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 11:24 PM Nicholas D Steeves wrote: > To be fair, doesn't the QA team (and random acts of kindness) often > keep these packages alive? There is no specific team maintaining orphaned packages, other than the set of Debian contributors who are motivated to do that. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
dev-ref: migration to Sphinx (was Re: Uninformative hyperlink in O: (package orphaning) bug reports)
On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 08:15:57AM +0200, Michael Kesper wrote: > > it to developers-reference. (FYI: I am trying to convert > > developers-reference to sphinx now and working on a branch. Any > > volunteer to help this is appreciated.) > Is that branch on salsa? yes, see "#931548 Migration to Sphinx" & thanks, help certainly very welcome! -- tschau, Holger --- holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Uninformative hyperlink in O: (package orphaning) bug reports
To everyone who is working on this problem, thank you :-) On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 10:38:14AM +0200, Michael Kesper wrote: > Hi again, > > On 09.07.19 09:17, Michael Kesper wrote: > > I think this is still starting a little bit negative, maybe like this? > > > > If nobody adopts this package it will vanish from Debian. > > Do you care for this package being part of Debian? >^^^ > Maybe change this "package" to software, as I just realized that term > is used a little bit too often here and users don't care about > "packages" but about using software. > The Case of the Disappearing Orphans: Motivations for maintaining to open source software. To be fair, doesn't the QA team (and random acts of kindness) often keep these packages alive? Maybe say something about that, and also how placement into a team provides better support for both the package/software and prospective contributor? Also, in the interest of keeping things positive, is it worth noting that Debian has "an almost magical ability to transform users into developers" (I read that in an article somewhere, years ago)? Thus, maybe package orphaning bug reports can become a more smooth path for situating new contributors into whatever context has the best chance of maximising their long-term motivation and future contributions? > > If so, have a look at https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers to > > understand best practices of maintaining a package. > > If you are new to Debian packaging, please read the tutorial > > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/index.en.html and also > > study how other Debian maintainers package similar packages. > ^^^ > Don't know exactly how to phrase that better. Hm, I'm not sure. Ideally it seems like it would be nice if we could provide a bit more streamlined procedure for "similar packages". Eg: 1. What language is the package implemented in? 2. Is there a team for that? ...URL for intake page for new members to a team, with hello-world packaging example (technical reference) and a link to the git repo of a complex package that is a well-documented high quality model of the team standards. The language-specific Hello-world example should use dh, unless the team generally doesn't (eg: IIRC the Haskell team, et al). The complex package would be a learn-by-example for things like overrides. Contributors will eventually learn how to search & find the resources they need, but I've seen a number of emails expressing how new contributors feel laughed at for not being able to find the relevant information and solutions. Thanks again to everyone who is working on this! Regards, Nicholas P.S. has anyone yet volunteered to help out with that sphinx document conversion project. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Uninformative hyperlink in O: (package orphaning) bug reports
Hi again, On 09.07.19 09:17, Michael Kesper wrote: > I think this is still starting a little bit negative, maybe like this? > > If nobody adopts this package it will vanish from Debian. > Do you care for this package being part of Debian? ^^^ Maybe change this "package" to software, as I just realized that term is used a little bit too often here and users don't care about "packages" but about using software. > If so, have a look at https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers to > understand best practices of maintaining a package. > If you are new to Debian packaging, please read the tutorial > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/index.en.html and also > study how other Debian maintainers package similar packages. ^^^ Don't know exactly how to phrase that better. Bye Michael signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Uninformative hyperlink in O: (package orphaning) bug reports
Hi all, On 07.07.19 14:47, Osamu Aoki wrote: > On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 10:07:19AM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 03:38:48PM -0400, Boyuan Yang wrote:[snip] >> This text comes from a template we use in the MIA-Team. >> You can find it here: >> https://salsa.debian.org/qa/qa/blob/master/mia/templates/wnpp-orphan.mia >> >>> However, https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#howto-o provides almost zero >>> information for an enthusiast that want to adopt the package, i.e. there's >>> no >>> detailed instruction on how to actually upload a package for a person not >>> quite familiar with Debian's packaging workflow. >>> >>> I'd suggest some kind of rewording on the website given that this link has >>> been posted everywhere in different BTS bug reports. Including a link to >>> https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers might be a good idea. Anyway >>> any >>> kind of improvement would be appreciated. >> >> A MR would be indeed very welcome! ;-) > > OK. I will do so to request to add the following for 4 files: > > If you are a prospective Debian maintainer, you are encouraged to take > this package.> We need a volunteer like you. Please note that > maintaining a package requires time and skills. Please look at > https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers to understand existing > practices first. If you are new to Debian packaging, please read a > tutorial document such as > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/index.en.html and also > study how other Debian maintainers package similar packages. I think this is still starting a little bit negative, maybe like this? If nobody adopts this package it will vanish from Debian. Do you care for this package being part of Debian? If so, have a look at https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers to understand best practices of maintaining a package. If you are new to Debian packaging, please read the tutorial https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/index.en.html and also study how other Debian maintainers package similar packages. Bye Michael signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Uninformative hyperlink in O: (package orphaning) bug reports
Hi Osamu, hi all, On 29.06.19 03:05, Osamu Aoki wrote: > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 10:37:58AM +0200, Michael Kesper wrote: >> Maintaining a package requires time and skills. >> Please have a look at https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers >> for getting started. >> >> [and intro-maintainers should at first feature some welcoming words and then >> the right documentation for beginners (is that >> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/index.en.html or > > Yes. > >> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html ?) > > No since I don't want to maintain 2 of them forever. I'd gladly change the mentors.debian.net site but you can only register as a mentor. ;) > If you see some important tutorial contents are missing in debmake-doc > which you can find them in maint-guide, please file a bug on debmake-doc > with proposed text. If it is something as guideline, you may propose > it to developers-reference. (FYI: I am trying to convert > developers-reference to sphinx now and working on a branch. Any > volunteer to help this is appreciated.) Is that branch on salsa? Bye Michael signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Uninformative hyperlink in O: (package orphaning) bug reports
On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 10:07:19AM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote: > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 03:38:48PM -0400, Boyuan Yang wrote: > > Dear -devel list, > > > > (Please forward this email to proper mailing lists if there's other lists > > that > > this email would suit in better.) > > > > I noticed that for all bug reports that orphan a package in Debian, a semi- > > standard paragraph of words will be provided like this: > > > > > > > > ...Maintaining a package requires time and skills. Please only adopt this > > package if you will have enough time and attention to work on it. > > > > If you want to be the new maintainer, please see > > https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#howto-o for detailed > > instructions how to adopt a package properly > > > > > > This text comes from a template we use in the MIA-Team. > You can find it here: > https://salsa.debian.org/qa/qa/blob/master/mia/templates/wnpp-orphan.mia > > > However, https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#howto-o provides almost zero > > information for an enthusiast that want to adopt the package, i.e. there's > > no > > detailed instruction on how to actually upload a package for a person not > > quite familiar with Debian's packaging workflow. > > > > I'd suggest some kind of rewording on the website given that this link has > > been posted everywhere in different BTS bug reports. Including a link to > > https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers might be a good idea. Anyway > > any > > kind of improvement would be appreciated. > > A MR would be indeed very welcome! ;-) OK. I will do so to request to add the following for 4 files: If you are a prospective Debian maintainer, you are encouraged to take this package. We need a volunteer like you. Please note that maintaining a package requires time and skills. Please look at https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers to understand existing practices first. If you are new to Debian packaging, please read a tutorial document such as https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/index.en.html and also study how other Debian maintainers package similar packages. Osamu > -- > Cheers, > tobi >
Re: Uninformative hyperlink in O: (package orphaning) bug reports
On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 03:38:48PM -0400, Boyuan Yang wrote: > Dear -devel list, > > (Please forward this email to proper mailing lists if there's other lists that > this email would suit in better.) > > I noticed that for all bug reports that orphan a package in Debian, a semi- > standard paragraph of words will be provided like this: > > > > ...Maintaining a package requires time and skills. Please only adopt this > package if you will have enough time and attention to work on it. > > If you want to be the new maintainer, please see > https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#howto-o for detailed > instructions how to adopt a package properly > > This text comes from a template we use in the MIA-Team. You can find it here: https://salsa.debian.org/qa/qa/blob/master/mia/templates/wnpp-orphan.mia > However, https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#howto-o provides almost zero > information for an enthusiast that want to adopt the package, i.e. there's no > detailed instruction on how to actually upload a package for a person not > quite familiar with Debian's packaging workflow. > > I'd suggest some kind of rewording on the website given that this link has > been posted everywhere in different BTS bug reports. Including a link to > https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers might be a good idea. Anyway any > kind of improvement would be appreciated. A MR would be indeed very welcome! ;-) -- Cheers, tobi
Re: Uninformative hyperlink in O: (package orphaning) bug reports
Hi, On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 10:37:58AM +0200, Michael Kesper wrote: > Hi Boyuan, > > On 27.06.19 21:38, Boyuan Yang wrote: > [I'm also not sure what's the best mailing list for discussing this, devel, > doc, mentors?] > > > I noticed that for all bug reports that orphan a package in Debian, a semi- > > standard paragraph of words will be provided like this: > > > > > > > > ...Maintaining a package requires time and skills. Please only adopt this > > package if you will have enough time and attention to work on it. > > > > If you want to be the new maintainer, please see > > https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#howto-o for detailed > > instructions how to adopt a package properly > > > > > > > > However, https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#howto-o provides almost zero > > information for an enthusiast that want to adopt the package, i.e. there's > > no > > detailed instruction on how to actually upload a package for a person not > > quite familiar with Debian's packaging workflow. > > > > I'd suggest some kind of rewording on the website given that this link has > > been posted everywhere in different BTS bug reports. Including a link to > > https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers might be a good idea. Anyway > > any > > kind of improvement would be appreciated. > > That's a very good point you spotted there. > This text actively discourage people from doing work and gives them no > pointers > to information re the "requred time and skills" would be. I agree. > That clearly should be improved, maybe: > > Maintaining a package requires time and skills. > Please have a look at https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers > for getting started. > > [and intro-maintainers should at first feature some welcoming words and then > the right documentation for beginners (is that > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/index.en.html or Yes. > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html ?) No since I don't want to maintain 2 of them forever. If you see some important tutorial contents are missing in debmake-doc which you can find them in maint-guide, please file a bug on debmake-doc with proposed text. If it is something as guideline, you may propose it to developers-reference. (FYI: I am trying to convert developers-reference to sphinx now and working on a branch. Any volunteer to help this is appreciated.) Osamu
Re: Uninformative hyperlink in O: (package orphaning) bug reports
Hi Boyuan, On 27.06.19 21:38, Boyuan Yang wrote: [I'm also not sure what's the best mailing list for discussing this, devel, doc, mentors?] > I noticed that for all bug reports that orphan a package in Debian, a semi- > standard paragraph of words will be provided like this: > > > > ...Maintaining a package requires time and skills. Please only adopt this > package if you will have enough time and attention to work on it. > > If you want to be the new maintainer, please see > https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#howto-o for detailed > instructions how to adopt a package properly > > > > However, https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#howto-o provides almost zero > information for an enthusiast that want to adopt the package, i.e. there's no > detailed instruction on how to actually upload a package for a person not > quite familiar with Debian's packaging workflow. > > I'd suggest some kind of rewording on the website given that this link has > been posted everywhere in different BTS bug reports. Including a link to > https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers might be a good idea. Anyway any > kind of improvement would be appreciated. That's a very good point you spotted there. This text actively discourage people from doing work and gives them no pointers to information re the "requred time and skills" would be. That clearly should be improved, maybe: Maintaining a package requires time and skills. Please have a look at https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers for getting started. [and intro-maintainers should at first feature some welcoming words and then the right documentation for beginners (is that https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/index.en.html or https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html ?) Bye Michael signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
