Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody
Dear Branden, in the spirit of a recent email reminding us of this: Thank you. i am myself a recipient of a lot of hate mail and questions on why woody sucks simply because i've converted a *very large* number of people to debian. thanks you for writing to slashdot and for the email you just posted, maybe it will make people realize what they are dealing with. P4 / GeForce people (what a wonderful stereotype) generally don't even know what debian is and are very surprised to hear me say that debian's not linux at all, linux is merely the most popular form of debian. i am rambling, but i guess i have a point. cutting-edge or not, we should all realize that debian's more than just another distro. for me, it's a lifesaver. we should accept that our goal is debian, not competing with the other distros. let them redhat and suse folks worry about the rich-daddy-kids with their machines too fast for their brains and graphics cards that can render about 2^22 more colours than the human eye can distinguish. and most important of all, let us concentrate on our distro and simply not care too much on what others bitch. after all, part of debian's charm is that we -devels are all in love with it ;^. anyway, i better stop, it's way too late, and i am just writing as i think. but this is to all of us: KEEP IT UP, THANK YOU! debian/rules -- martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.) \ echo mailto: !#^.*|tr * mailto:; [EMAIL PROTECTED] men always want to be a woman's first love. women have a more subtle instinct: what they like is to be a man's last romance. -- oscar wilde pgpPPvIV64EKd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: PGI installer [Was: Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody]
On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 06:49:58PM +0200, Grzegorz Prokopski wrote: After that introduction (sorry, just wanted You to know the situation) let me ask You a few questions: First, main one: 0. Is PGI good enough to be used as basic installer for Debian magazine edition which will be pressed in a few thousand of copies? Well, I wouldn't want to make any warranties or guarantees at this point. When the version number has reached 1.0 I'll feel more confident. All I can say is that PGI appears to be much more robust even than Progeny Debian's installer, upon which it was based. Aside from issues with video cards unsupported by XFree86 (see below), I am unaware of any categorial complaints about PGI's robustness. Maybe it is good enough to be secondary installer (maybe on second a CD or sth?) I personally would certainly be comfortable with that. 1. Is this possible to include it along with the basic, textmode installer? Can You say some more deatailed about it? PGI does actually include a text-mode installer. You pass the installer the textmode argument at the SYSLINUX boot prompt. 2. Is PGI localized to Polish? (I don't think so) Is it hard to do? where/who to ask? (I will also be trying to get base-config in Polish, as I belive it's needed to have fully localized installation). PGI is not localized to Polish, and there would be some infrastructural changes necessary to support internationalization. 3. What else should I know ? ;-) Some mailing list? (I can't find anything about PGI on debian-boot) You can read more at http://hackers.progeny.com/pgi/. Huh - it'd be really nice to have PGI as the main installer ;-) But now I really need some good advice in the first place. Any comments are welcomed. I welcome further feedback, especially once you've had a chance to evaluate it. Thanks a lot for giving PGI a look! -- G. Branden Robinson| If God had intended for man to go Debian GNU/Linux | about naked, we would have been [EMAIL PROTECTED] | born that way. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | pgpSi6GZwbvwj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody
Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What the fuck is going on! When in this insane world did Branden become the polite well mannered one, and I become the asshole! Uh oh, if we elect Branden DPL, is he going to switch back? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody
On Tue, 2002-04-16 at 15:05, Ben Collins wrote: On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 07:01:06AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: A couple of people on a recent thread in debian-devel linked to a message I recently posted on Slashdot on this subject. I had thought about posting this information to Debian's lists as well, but at the time, didn't see a need. Thanks to that recent thread, now I see a need. :) What the fuck is going on! When in this insane world did Branden become the polite well mannered one, and I become the asshole! I see what's happening. Mr. Collins didn't want to give up the DPL position, so he paid a candidate to switch Internet identities. I'm on to you now, Mr. Collins. I shall spread news of this misdeed all across this single e-mail, thereby alerting the 6.13 people who actually read it, none of whom really care. -- Debian - http://www.debian.org/ Linux 1394 - http://linux1394.sourceforge.net/ Subversion - http://subversion.tigris.org/ Deqo - http://www.deqo.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody
Ben == Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben What the fuck is going on! When in this insane world did Ben Branden become the polite well mannered one, and I become the Ben asshole! That's ok. If Branden is going to be polite someone has to assume his former flame-from-the-hip persona. Seeing as you're (alomost) no longer DPL, we have to give you a job somewhere. :) -- Stephen What would be the purpose of 'freezing' the bible? - Fabrizio Polacco Because that way it is more effective as a tool for smacking the heathen over the head. - G. Branden Robinson in debian-devel@lists.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PGI installer [Was: Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody]
Hi, Branden, On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 06:40:05PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: 3. What else should I know ? ;-) Some mailing list? (I can't find anything about PGI on debian-boot) You can read more at http://hackers.progeny.com/pgi/. Short question: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/ap-ami.en.html Does this old PGI description in the appendix of Progeny User's Guide still true or needs to be replaced with user manual at above URL which was generated from XML? I have converted Progeny User's Guide from Filemaker to debiandoc-sgml and I am reorganizing its contents to fit core Debian users. Its CVS HEAD version is available at: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/index.en.html and ... http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/users-guide.en.pdf http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/users-guide.en.txt -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED], GnuPG-key: 1024D/D5DE453D
Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody
Seems that 4.1.0-16 fixed at last the old problem with garbage-on-screen in kicker and in nedit scrollbars on r128 card. Great work ! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody
Seems that 4.1.0-16 fixed at last the old problem with garbage-on-screen in kicker and in nedit scrollbars on r128 card. Oh no, the bug is still there :-(. But not as often as before :-). Anyway, it is not really harmful. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody
On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 04:44:31PM +0400, Nikita V. Youshchenko wrote: Seems that 4.1.0-16 fixed at last the old problem with garbage-on-screen in kicker and in nedit scrollbars on r128 card. Oh no, the bug is still there :-(. But not as often as before :-). Anyway, it is not really harmful. Sorry to hear it didn't work out, but I wouldn't have expected a bug like this to be fixed by -16. The only patches to a video driver in -16 were some fixes to the video mode validation code in the r128 driver. If you're experiencing screen corruption, you want to experiment with the various XaaNo options as documented in XF86Config-4(5). -- G. Branden Robinson|Any man who does not realize that Debian GNU/Linux |he is half an animal is only half a [EMAIL PROTECTED] |man. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Thornton Wilder pgpeHmNXwzgPM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody
On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 07:01:06AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: A couple of people on a recent thread in debian-devel linked to a message I recently posted on Slashdot on this subject. I had thought about posting this information to Debian's lists as well, but at the time, didn't see a need. Branden, nice email! You're doing amazing work! Thank you! Julian -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Julian Gilbey, Dept of Maths, Queen Mary, Univ. of London website: http://www.maths.qmul.ac.uk/~jdg/ Debian GNU/Linux Developer, see: http://people.debian.org/~jdg/ Visit http://www.thehungersite.com/ to help feed the hungry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGI installer [Was: Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody]
W licie z wto, 16-04-2002, godz. 14:01, Branden Robinson pisze: I'll also add that some of my time (some of it paid for by my employer) has being going towards trying to solve a problem that people have been complaining about even more loudly -- and for a greater duration -- than the absence of XFree86 4.2 Debian packages: Debian's installer. Some people just don't like Debian's existing text-mode installer, no matter how flexible it is. They want a GUI installer, darn it. Progeny's version of Debian got pretty positive reviews, and several people said Progeny solved the problem with Debian's installer. Thus, a vastly improved version of Progeny's installer is now available. You can read about it at: http://hackers.progeny.com/pgi/ PGI is not yet at 1.0, but has performed dozens (perhaps hundreds, by now) of successful woody installations on i386 and ia64 hardware. If you use either of these platforms, please check it out. Additionally, thanks to Jimmy Kaplowitz a PowerPC port is underway. Hello! I am managing preparations of press edition of Debian Woody for Debian users in Poland. It will be Special edtion of Linux+ magazine (http://www.linux.com.pl). We will include 8 CDs with binary packages (or 2 DVDs of binaries and source as an option). There will be 64 pages of misc artiles, and of course one about installation too. I was just about to start the writing of this text ATM. I knew about PGI but didn't know that it's being actively worked on. Till today I was decided to use starndard installer on our CDs. But, as You said above, it's painfull for many, many new users. And we heavily target new users. The materials are prepared so that new wannabe-debian-user (who just decided to leve his beloved RH or MDK) could start with Debian more easily. We only release i386 binaries, so lack of ports of PGI is not the problem here. After that introduction (sorry, just wanted You to know the situation) let me ask You a few questions: First, main one: 0. Is PGI good enough to be used as basic installer for Debian magazine edition which will be pressed in a few thousand of copies? Maybe it is good enough to be secondary installer (maybe on second a CD or sth?) 1. Is this possible to include it along with the basic, textmode installer? Can You say some more deatailed about it? 2. Is PGI localized to Polish? (I don't think so) Is it hard to do? where/who to ask? (I will also be trying to get base-config in Polish, as I belive it's needed to have fully localized installation). 3. What else should I know ? ;-) Some mailing list? (I can't find anything about PGI on debian-boot) Huh - it'd be really nice to have PGI as the main installer ;-) But now I really need some good advice in the first place. Any comments are welcomed. Best regards Grzegorz Prokopski -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody
begin Branden Robinson quotation: A couple of people on a recent thread in debian-devel linked to a message I recently posted on Slashdot on this subject. I had thought about posting this information to Debian's lists as well, but at the time, didn't see a need. Thanks to that recent thread, now I see a need. :) [snip] Branden, as one Debian user, I would like to thank you for the tremendous job you do on the X packages. Debian's X has worked flawlessly on my machines. Unlike many less-complex packages, I have never installed a new X package and found it fundamentally broken. (And this is running Sid, mind you, so I'm not getting the benefit of two weeks of other users' testing.) I await 4.2 patiently. I don't want to see it until you feel it's ready, and as long as there are 4.1 issues to deal with for Woody, obviously that should be your focus. I'll also add that some of my time (some of it paid for by my employer) has being going towards trying to solve a problem that people have been complaining about even more loudly -- and for a greater duration -- than the absence of XFree86 4.2 Debian packages: Debian's installer. Some people just don't like Debian's existing text-mode installer, no matter how flexible it is. They want a GUI installer, darn it. Progeny's version of Debian got pretty positive reviews, and several people said Progeny solved the problem with Debian's installer. If we get a nice GUI installer, that's great, but it's JUST PLAIN STUPID for people to claim that there is anything wrong with a text-mode one. I've installed Potato several times (usually dist-upgrading to Sid almost immediately thereafter). I _like_ that installer. It may not be as pretty as Red Hat's, but it's more than adequate, and it makes sense to me that an OS installer should make minimal demands on the system. Still, as I said, a GUI installer's fine with me as long as it works well, so I look forward to seeing the fruits of your labors in Woody+1. I'll take a look at your work-in-progress next time I do an install. Craig pgptloKRLAEOc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why XFree86 4.2 Isn't in Woody
On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 07:01:06AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: A couple of people on a recent thread in debian-devel linked to a message I recently posted on Slashdot on this subject. I had thought about posting this information to Debian's lists as well, but at the time, didn't see a need. Thanks to that recent thread, now I see a need. :) What the fuck is going on! When in this insane world did Branden become the polite well mannered one, and I become the asshole! -- Debian - http://www.debian.org/ Linux 1394 - http://linux1394.sourceforge.net/ Subversion - http://subversion.tigris.org/ Deqo - http://www.deqo.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
