Re: Re: feature: to add explanations of recommendations and suggestions dependencies
So there's some positive response. Where is a good place to pursue this further? Is this a debian policy change? I think there's no need for a Debian policy change to start. You should start by finding a proper way to put the recommendation and suggestion explanations in package control files. One way which might work would be to add a Recommendation field defined as Recommendation: package, explanation but this would require using the same field name several times. I believe this wasn't done yet. I don't know if the field names should be unique. If putting the same field name twice is seen as a redeclaration, this is a problem that would need to be investigated. Otherwise, you can choose binary package control file user-defined fields, such as XB-Recommendation and XB-Suggestion and start using it... Get a few packages to use the fields and add support for them to package management tools. Start advertising the fields. If it's successful, request the fields to be added to Debian policy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: feature: to add explanations of recommendations and suggestions dependencies
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 11:03:50PM -0400, Felipe Sateler [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Charles Plessy wrote: Le Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 07:02:02PM -0400, Felipe Sateler a écrit : Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Could they be added as XB-Comment:? I use XS-Comment and it appears in the dsc, I don't know if XB-* appear in the deb or elsewhere. Hi Felipe, The answer is only in the sources for the moment. A quick test shows that XB-Comment: something shows as Comment: something in the deb. However, this doesn't mean that it will show up in apt-cache show. It would depend on how the Packages file is created. A quick test with apt-ftparchive shows that the answer is yes. Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: feature: to add explanations of recommendations and suggestions dependencies
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 18:34, Daniel Burrows wrote: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 08:57:24PM +0100, Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: * Shachar Or [Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:36:35 +0300]: I am not suggesting this data will be put in with the package's description, Why not? I think (briefly) explaining some of the most relevant recommends and suggests is a perfect use of the description space. And if more verbosity is needed, that information should go into the README.Debian file in my opinion. The thing is that the Description field is not machine-parseable. If aptitude, for instance, knew about the purpose of a Recommends, it could indicate this to the user at convenient places in the UI where the Description might not be visible (and without requiring the user to hunt for the recommendation in the Description). So there's some positive response. Where is a good place to pursue this further? Is this a debian policy change? /me is no DD, nor DM, nor D*; only a user (with good intentions and occasionally an idea). Daniel -- Shachar Or | שחר אור http://ox.freeallweb.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: feature: to add explanations of recommendations and suggestions dependencies
* Daniel Burrows [Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:34:18 -0700]: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 08:57:24PM +0100, Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: * Shachar Or [Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:36:35 +0300]: I am not suggesting this data will be put in with the package's description, Why not? I think (briefly) explaining some of the most relevant recommends and suggests is a perfect use of the description space. And if more verbosity is needed, that information should go into the README.Debian file in my opinion. The thing is that the Description field is not machine-parseable. If aptitude, for instance, knew about the purpose of a Recommends, it could indicate this to the user at convenient places in the UI where the Description might not be visible (and without requiring the user to hunt for the recommendation in the Description). This is a good point. As long as `apt-cache show` always shows something reasonably readable... Cheers, -- Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es Debian Developer adeodato at debian.org As an adolescent I aspired to lasting fame, I craved factual certainty, and I thirsted for a meaningful vision of human life -- so I became a scientist. This is like becoming an archbishop so you can meet girls. -- Matt Cartmill -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: feature: to add explanations of recommendations and suggestions dependencies
Le Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 07:02:02PM -0400, Felipe Sateler a écrit : Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Could they be added as XB-Comment:? I use XS-Comment and it appears in the dsc, I don't know if XB-* appear in the deb or elsewhere. Hi Felipe, The answer is only in the sources for the moment. http://git.debian.org/?p=dpkg/dpkg.git;a=blob;f=scripts/dpkg-gencontrol.pl;h=219b4ffacd7af3e5ee051444c49f99ff61b3ce19;hb=HEAD http://git.debian.org/?p=dpkg/dpkg.git;a=blob;f=scripts/dpkg-genchanges.pl;h=a59918f55aa72b3e204aa21f0df1bbb516300768;hb=HEAD http://git.debian.org/?p=dpkg/dpkg.git;a=blob;f=scripts/dpkg-source.pl;h=4c9f00630bbcc7fe3b8a94ff1a76fc06be90c9e0;hb=HEAD As I do not know if all the combinations allowed by the regular expressions in the above scripts are intended for use, I fail to propose a good enough documentation patch to the dpkg team. If anybody is more inspired, feel free to send your contribution to the following bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=476335 Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy Debian Med packaging team, Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: feature: to add explanations of recommendations and suggestions dependencies
Charles Plessy wrote: Le Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 07:02:02PM -0400, Felipe Sateler a écrit : Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Could they be added as XB-Comment:? I use XS-Comment and it appears in the dsc, I don't know if XB-* appear in the deb or elsewhere. Hi Felipe, The answer is only in the sources for the moment. A quick test shows that XB-Comment: something shows as Comment: something in the deb. However, this doesn't mean that it will show up in apt-cache show. It would depend on how the Packages file is created. -- Felipe Sateler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: feature: to add explanations of recommendations and suggestions dependencies
On Tuesday 12 August 2008 22:57, Adeodato Simó wrote: * Shachar Or [Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:36:35 +0300]: I am not suggesting this data will be put in with the package's description, Why not? I think (briefly) explaining some of the most relevant recommends and suggests is a perfect use of the description space. And if more verbosity is needed, that information should go into the README.Debian file in my opinion. Of course that while there aren't data 'fields' for this purpose it would be best that maintainers put this in the description. I'm suggesting that there be fields for this purpose, specifically - a reason behind each recommend/sugggest. This would make it possible for tools to fetch this information specifically, for tools to display this information in specific locations and perhaps for the system to 'know' for what reason(s) a package is installed. Cheers, -- Shachar Or | שחר אור http://ox.freeallweb.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: feature: to add explanations of recommendations and suggestions dependencies
Le Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 06:36:35PM +0300, Shachar Or a écrit : What I am offering is the idea that package dependencies that are reccomendations or suggestions must be explained. Hi, Before I read your mail, I thought that it was not possible, but after googling a bit, I found out that dpkg supports comments since version 1.10.11: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=446712 This is however just general comments, they are not meant to be parsed for display to the end-user. I will nevertheless start to use them. I think that it is very valuable in team-maintained packages, where it is sometimes difficult to know what motivated the actions of another developper years before. Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy Debian Med packaging team, Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: feature: to add explanations of recommendations and suggestions dependencies
Charles Plessy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Le Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 06:36:35PM +0300, Shachar Or a écrit : What I am offering is the idea that package dependencies that are reccomendations or suggestions must be explained. Hi, Before I read your mail, I thought that it was not possible, but after googling a bit, I found out that dpkg supports comments since version 1.10.11: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=446712 This is however just general comments, they are not meant to be parsed for display to the end-user. I will nevertheless start to use them. I think that it is very valuable in team-maintained packages, where it is sometimes difficult to know what motivated the actions of another developper years before. Have a nice day, But will the comments be copied into the debian/package/DEBIAN/ dir? I doubt that. User would need those comments in the deb. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: feature: to add explanations of recommendations and suggestions dependencies
Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Charles Plessy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Le Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 06:36:35PM +0300, Shachar Or a écrit : What I am offering is the idea that package dependencies that are reccomendations or suggestions must be explained. Hi, Before I read your mail, I thought that it was not possible, but after googling a bit, I found out that dpkg supports comments since version 1.10.11: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=446712 This is however just general comments, they are not meant to be parsed for display to the end-user. I will nevertheless start to use them. I think that it is very valuable in team-maintained packages, where it is sometimes difficult to know what motivated the actions of another developper years before. Have a nice day, But will the comments be copied into the debian/package/DEBIAN/ dir? I doubt that. User would need those comments in the deb. Could they be added as XB-Comment:? I use XS-Comment and it appears in the dsc, I don't know if XB-* appear in the deb or elsewhere. -- Felipe Sateler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
