Re: gpm and X problem investigated
Here we go again. On Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 03:10:32PM +0200, Massimo Dal Zotto wrote: > > As the gpm maintainer I will try and stay polite and explain some > > things. > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 07:46:51PM +0200, Massimo Dal Zotto wrote: > > > I had the same problems when using the new defaults (-R ms3 and > > > Intellimouse on /dev/gpmdata). > > > > Can you please give specifics? > > Yes. I have an old serial mousesystems on ttyS0. I configured gpm (1.17.8-18) > with: > > device=/dev/ttyS0 > responsiveness=20 > repeat_type=ms3 > type=msc > append="" > > the X sever (xserver-svga 3.3.6-10) with: > > Section "Pointer" > Protocol"intellimouse" > Device "/dev/gpmdata" > EndSection > > and set the mouse acceleration in .xsession with: > > xset m 1 1 > > With these settings the mouse works but it has a very annoying "deceleration" > effect on the X cursor: when moving the mouse slowly the cursor has a normal > speed but when moving it faster the cursor moves very slowly. Under console > the mouse behaves normally. Using a mouse with this behavior makes you sick > so I had to configure gpm and X with the default msc repeater type. Have you tried it without the xset? This is definitely a X acceleration error, nothing to do with gpm. > > > > Another nasty thing is that if you use the task-selection interface gpm > > > is not installed by default and there is no way to add it manually to the > > > package list. > > > > Eww, I will have to get that corrected. > > gpm should be installed by default or even better be included in the base > system. Perhaps, there are arguments both ways. > > > > > > > Repeating in /ANY/ protocol except ms3/IntelliMouse is NOT an option, it > > will not work with X4, the ONLY protocol which will work for gpm > > repeating to X4 is ms3/IntelliMouse. > > This seems not correct. I have never tried X4 but other users reported that > msc on gpmdata works fine also with X4. > > Anyway if msc and other protocols didn't work with gpmdata I would consider > this a severe bug of X4 which should be fixed as soon as possible. File a bug against X4 then, but don't count on it being handled anytime soon, and I don't feel like rewriting gpm to use something other then fifos to communicate for repeating. > > > Raw is just screaming loudly for it to break, msc no longer works and > > does not support the features of newer mice, there is exactly one > > option, ms3/IntelliMouse. > > > > Further having X and gpm try to coexist without repeating is also a > > non-option, on some systems it breaks badly. > > > > Thus, we have three possible choices. > > > > 1: gpm installed without X, no problems. > > > > 2: X installed without gpm, no mouse under console, but otherwise no > > problems. > > > > 3: gpm and X installed with gpm repeating to X in the ms3/IntelliMouse > > protocol. > > > > There are no other options, these are the only configurations which will > > work on all systems. > > As I explained before this doesn't work on my system, so I suggest: > > 4: gpm and X installed with gpm repeating to X in the msc/MouseSystems > protocol. For values of 'doesn't work' which equals misset set X accel settings. MouseSystems/msc also drops info for mouse with little features like the wheel, and X4 attempts to speak to the mouse in said protocol. Zephaniah E. Hull. > > -- > Massimo Dal Zotto > > +--+ > | Massimo Dal Zotto email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | > | Via Marconi, 141phone: ++39-0461534251 | > | 38057 Pergine Valsugana (TN) www: http://www.cs.unitn.it/~dz/ | > | Italy pgp: see my www home page | > +--+ > -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. Having been the victim of forgeries myself, I sympathise. I've still got my nutcraker handy for the day I identify and catch the scum... -- Richard Gooch on l-k. pgpnm3LhyQULA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
> As the gpm maintainer I will try and stay polite and explain some > things. > > > On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 07:46:51PM +0200, Massimo Dal Zotto wrote: > > I had the same problems when using the new defaults (-R ms3 and > > Intellimouse on /dev/gpmdata). > > Can you please give specifics? Yes. I have an old serial mousesystems on ttyS0. I configured gpm (1.17.8-18) with: device=/dev/ttyS0 responsiveness=20 repeat_type=ms3 type=msc append="" the X sever (xserver-svga 3.3.6-10) with: Section "Pointer" Protocol"intellimouse" Device "/dev/gpmdata" EndSection and set the mouse acceleration in .xsession with: xset m 1 1 With these settings the mouse works but it has a very annoying "deceleration" effect on the X cursor: when moving the mouse slowly the cursor has a normal speed but when moving it faster the cursor moves very slowly. Under console the mouse behaves normally. Using a mouse with this behavior makes you sick so I had to configure gpm and X with the default msc repeater type. > > Another nasty thing is that if you use the task-selection interface gpm > > is not installed by default and there is no way to add it manually to the > > package list. > > Eww, I will have to get that corrected. gpm should be installed by default or even better be included in the base system. > > > Repeating in /ANY/ protocol except ms3/IntelliMouse is NOT an option, it > will not work with X4, the ONLY protocol which will work for gpm > repeating to X4 is ms3/IntelliMouse. This seems not correct. I have never tried X4 but other users reported that msc on gpmdata works fine also with X4. Anyway if msc and other protocols didn't work with gpmdata I would consider this a severe bug of X4 which should be fixed as soon as possible. > Raw is just screaming loudly for it to break, msc no longer works and > does not support the features of newer mice, there is exactly one > option, ms3/IntelliMouse. > > Further having X and gpm try to coexist without repeating is also a > non-option, on some systems it breaks badly. > > Thus, we have three possible choices. > > 1: gpm installed without X, no problems. > > 2: X installed without gpm, no mouse under console, but otherwise no > problems. > > 3: gpm and X installed with gpm repeating to X in the ms3/IntelliMouse > protocol. > > There are no other options, these are the only configurations which will > work on all systems. As I explained before this doesn't work on my system, so I suggest: 4: gpm and X installed with gpm repeating to X in the msc/MouseSystems protocol. -- Massimo Dal Zotto +--+ | Massimo Dal Zotto email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Via Marconi, 141phone: ++39-0461534251 | | 38057 Pergine Valsugana (TN) www: http://www.cs.unitn.it/~dz/ | | Italy pgp: see my www home page | +--+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
As the gpm maintainer I will try and stay polite and explain some things. On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 07:46:51PM +0200, Massimo Dal Zotto wrote: > I had the same problems when using the new defaults (-R ms3 and > Intellimouse on /dev/gpmdata). Can you please give specifics? > > Another nasty thing is that if you use the task-selection interface gpm > is not installed by default and there is no way to add it manually to the > package list. Eww, I will have to get that corrected. Repeating in /ANY/ protocol except ms3/IntelliMouse is NOT an option, it will not work with X4, the ONLY protocol which will work for gpm repeating to X4 is ms3/IntelliMouse. Raw is just screaming loudly for it to break, msc no longer works and does not support the features of newer mice, there is exactly one option, ms3/IntelliMouse. Further having X and gpm try to coexist without repeating is also a non-option, on some systems it breaks badly. Thus, we have three possible choices. 1: gpm installed without X, no problems. 2: X installed without gpm, no mouse under console, but otherwise no problems. 3: gpm and X installed with gpm repeating to X in the ms3/IntelliMouse protocol. There are no other options, these are the only configurations which will work on all systems. Zephaniah E. Hull. (gpm maintainer) > > -- > Massimo Dal Zotto > > +--+ > | Massimo Dal Zotto email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | > | Via Marconi, 141phone: ++39-0461534251 | > | 38057 Pergine Valsugana (TN) www: http://www.cs.unitn.it/~dz/ | > | Italy pgp: see my www home page | > +--+ > -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. ALL programs are poems, it's just that not all programmers are poets. -- Jonathan Guthrie in the scary.devil.monastery pgp9cHQ0hxgiA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
> Do we need to start collecting a database of what combinations of > configurations work in which situations? iMac + logitech usb wheel mouse: XFree86 3.3.x: Protocol "imps/2" Device "/dev/usbmouse" works fine - including mouse wheel. Protocol"mousesystems" Device "/dev/gpmdata" works too, but without mouse wheel. Trying any other repeater protocol did'nt work at all. XFree86 4: Protocol"mousesystems" Device "/dev/gpmdata" The only way I could make the mouse work. No working mouse wheel here too. Gerd -- Protecting the children is a good way to get a lot of adults who cant stand up for themselves.-- seen in some sig on /. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Massimo Dal Zotto wrote: > I had the same problems when using the new defaults (-R ms3 and Intellimouse > on /dev/gpmdata). > 2)use the default gpm repeater type (msc). It is compatible with > the old behavior of slink and gpm, and works without problems. > The default gpm repeater type is `msc' an not `raw'. Setting it > to raw would force the user to configure it also in XF86config, > while with msc it could be configured automatically (see next > point). After probably a good hour of mucking about with this when I installed potato from scratch about 6 months ago, I concur with using msc as the default repeater. On my Thinkpad 600E, this is not only the only configuration that worked, but the Z-axis button worked automatically as a middle mouse button (which according to the Linux Laptops page documentation at the time wasn't supposed to work at all). Do we need to start collecting a database of what combinations of configurations work in which situations? Perhaps there are other configurations that simply won't work using msc (or ms3) repeater types. If we knew about them, we could make gpmconfig a bit smarter. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | She who says, does not know. http://www.debian.org | She who knows, does not say. |- Tao Te Ching -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
> > Hi! > > In the recent past, there have been multiple (bug) reports about the behaviour > of potato (& woody?) gpm in the presence of X (or vice versa, really). I've > done some research, with these results: > > 1. On slink and probably before (because I don't remember things being >differently), gpm did not default to be in repeater mode or even >ask about that. In the X config, you would mention your real /dev/mouse >and your real protocol. > > 2. On any->potato upgrades, the config file is not touched, and gpm and X >continue to behave as before. In an upgraded potato system, X still >needs your real /dev/mouse and your real protocol. > > 3. On new potato installs, gpm defaults to be in repeater mode, and to >repeat in the ms3 protocol. > > 4. When gpm is in repeater mode, it does not release the mouse device >when switching to X, but expects X to read data from /dev/gpmdata. >So, in the current potato default install, IF you install gpm, >X config must use /dev/gpmdata and ms protocol always, regardless >of mouse type. > > 5. In the current potato install, IF you do NOT install gpm, X config >needs your real /dev/mouse with your real protocol. > > 6. My personal experience shows that, with gpm repeating in the ms3 >protocol, the middle mouse button is very hard to get working in X, if >at all. Also, movement data of the mouse appears to get lost, resulting >in erratic and uncomfortable mouse behaviour. > > 7. The solution to the repeating problem in 6. is to default to >repeating in the "raw" = "untranslated" protocol. Then, X config >would need /dev/gpmdata always, but your real protocol. > > So, on a potato system, the X configuration may require three different > settings, dependent on your personal history: > > real /dev/mouse + real protocolwhen upgraded from slink or before > OR on new potato install without gpm > > /dev/gpmdata+ ms protocol on "unmodified" new potato install w/gpm > > /dev/gpmdata+ real protocolon "modified" new potato install w/gpm > > This situation seems highly undesirable to me, if only because this is not > documented properly anywhere -- and even documenting the current situation in > a way that is clear to the average user (i.e. M$Win convert) is a daunting > task. > > Apart from changing nothing and leaving our users completely in the dark, > there seem to be two options: > > a. Let gpm default to repeating in raw mode (to solve 6.), and add a very >clear notice that X should be (re)configured with /dev/gpmdata but using >the real protocol -- but when gpm is either stopped or removed/purged, that >the X config should be changed again (!! I don't know any package that >requires _another_ package to be _manually_ reconfigured on install/ >remove). > > b. Let gpm default to not repeating at all, without needing any further >documentation (AFAIK; I don't remember questions on gpm <-> X behaviour >in slink). > > Obviously, b. is the right choice (IMHO ;-). Furthermore, a fix to this effect > seems more than necessary to go into 2.2r1. > > Or... is there a flaw in my logic? Or is there some very important reason for > gpm's current behaviour? > > > Regards, > Anne Bezemer > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > I had the same problems when using the new defaults (-R ms3 and Intellimouse on /dev/gpmdata). Another nasty thing is that if you use the task-selection interface gpm is not installed by default and there is no way to add it manually to the package list. So if you configure X for MouseSystem on /dev/gpmdata, as I have always done on my installations, you have a non working X system. The same happens if you choose "Logitech Intellimouse or GPM Repeater" in anXious, because gpm is missing anyway. I suggest that in the future we choose a third (and better) option: 1) install gpm by default or even better add it to the base system since it is very useful also in text mode 2) use the default gpm repeater type (msc). It is compatible with the old behavior of slink and gpm, and works without problems. The default gpm repeater type is `msc' an not `raw'. Setting it to raw would force the user to configure it also in XF86config, while with msc it could be configured automatically (see next point). 3) in new installlation don't ask for X mouse configuration and use by default MouseSystem on /dev/gpmdata, after displaying a note to the user explaining the relationships between gpm and X. This has the advantage that the user must configure the mouse only in one place, even if later he wants to change the mouse model or port. This is a big win expecially for novices, while the experienced users alway
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
On Fri, Sep 1, 2000 at 00:22:23 +0200 (+), J.A. Bezemer wrote: > a. Let gpm default to repeating in raw mode (to solve 6.), and add a very >clear notice that X should be (re)configured with /dev/gpmdata but using >the real protocol -- but when gpm is either stopped or removed/purged, that >the X config should be changed again (!! I don't know any package that >requires _another_ package to be _manually_ reconfigured on install/ >remove). > > b. Let gpm default to not repeating at all, without needing any further >documentation (AFAIK; I don't remember questions on gpm <-> X behaviour >in slink). Raw mode just repeats what's coming in? How about "ln -s mouse /dev/gpmdata" on removal and recreating a device on install. Watching the upgrades of course. Just an idea - don't shoot me, yet. Adrian Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Windows NT - Unix in beta-testing. GPG/PGP keys available on public key servers Debian GNU/Linux -*- By professionals for professionals -*- www.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
On Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 08:58:24AM +0200, Rainer Dorsch wrote: > The middle mouse button works flawless, if you select the Intellimouse > protocol: Of course, it's rather non-obvious that you need to select anything other than the protocol your physical mouse supports (or it was when I tried a Potato install). -- Mark Brown mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Trying to avoid grumpiness) http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~broonie/ EUFShttp://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/filmsoc/ pgpwyn7TBTOB2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
> We discussed this previously (I think on debian-testing). The odd thing > with > the configuration is, that the user has to specify twice the mouse type > (during gpm and during X setup). Even worse, if the user decides to use > a PS/2 > instead of a serial mouse, he has to change it at several places. Thus > to me > it seemed to be a good idea to configure the real mouse at gpm setup and > reuse > the settings within X by this repeat feature. > > The middle mouse button works flawless, if you select the Intellimouse > protocol: > > Section "Pointer" > Protocol"IntelliMouse" > Device "/dev/gpmdata" Curiously, everything was working for me just fine until my latest (woody) upgrade today. This was both on my homebrew box and my ThinkPad 560, both with ps2. I solved it by manually editing both the gpm.conf and XF86Config files. Could be kind of a pain for the less experienced.. Cheers Matthew Thompson https://mattyt.net/webmail [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oz.net/~mattyt "Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow." --Oscar Wilde -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
We discussed this previously (I think on debian-testing). The odd thing with the configuration is, that the user has to specify twice the mouse type (during gpm and during X setup). Even worse, if the user decides to use a PS/2 instead of a serial mouse, he has to change it at several places. Thus to me it seemed to be a good idea to configure the real mouse at gpm setup and reuse the settings within X by this repeat feature. The middle mouse button works flawless, if you select the Intellimouse protocol: Section "Pointer" Protocol"IntelliMouse" Device "/dev/gpmdata" ... Rainer. -- Rainer Dorsch Abt. Rechnerarchitektur e-mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Uni StuttgartTel.: +49-711-7816-215 / Fax: +49-711-7816-288 Breitwiesenstr. 20-22D-70565 Stuttgart -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
On Fri, 1 Sep 2000, J.A. Bezemer wrote: **cut > b. Let gpm default to not repeating at all, without needing any further >documentation (AFAIK; I don't remember questions on gpm <-> X behaviour >in slink). > > Obviously, b. is the right choice (IMHO ;-). Furthermore, a fix to this effect > seems more than necessary to go into 2.2r1. > On my test installs I configured gpm manually, as I always do, and switched off repeat mode. I have never had any problems in X. A generic serial mouse on ttyS1. Phil. - Philip Charles; 39a Paterson St., Abbotsford, New Zealand; +64 3 4882818 Mobile 025 267 9420. I sell GNU/Linux CDs. See http://www.copyleft.co.nz
Re: gpm and X problem investigated
I support your conclusion and and asks the same question. Why did it change? Regards, /Karl --- Karl HammarAspö Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lilla Aspö 2340 +46 173 140 57Networks S-742 94 Östhammar +46 70 511 97 84 Computers Sweden Consulting --- From: "J.A. Bezemer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: gpm and X problem investigated Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 00:22:23 +0200 (CEST) > > Hi! > > In the recent past, there have been multiple (bug) reports about the behaviour > of potato (& woody?) gpm in the presence of X (or vice versa, really). I've > done some research, with these results: > > 1. On slink and probably before (because I don't remember things being >differently), gpm did not default to be in repeater mode or even >ask about that. In the X config, you would mention your real /dev/mouse >and your real protocol. > > 2. On any->potato upgrades, the config file is not touched, and gpm and X >continue to behave as before. In an upgraded potato system, X still >needs your real /dev/mouse and your real protocol. > > 3. On new potato installs, gpm defaults to be in repeater mode, and to >repeat in the ms3 protocol. > > 4. When gpm is in repeater mode, it does not release the mouse device >when switching to X, but expects X to read data from /dev/gpmdata. >So, in the current potato default install, IF you install gpm, >X config must use /dev/gpmdata and ms protocol always, regardless >of mouse type. > > 5. In the current potato install, IF you do NOT install gpm, X config >needs your real /dev/mouse with your real protocol. > > 6. My personal experience shows that, with gpm repeating in the ms3 >protocol, the middle mouse button is very hard to get working in X, if >at all. Also, movement data of the mouse appears to get lost, resulting >in erratic and uncomfortable mouse behaviour. > > 7. The solution to the repeating problem in 6. is to default to >repeating in the "raw" = "untranslated" protocol. Then, X config >would need /dev/gpmdata always, but your real protocol. > > So, on a potato system, the X configuration may require three different > settings, dependent on your personal history: > > real /dev/mouse + real protocolwhen upgraded from slink or before > OR on new potato install without gpm > > /dev/gpmdata+ ms protocol on "unmodified" new potato install w/gpm > > /dev/gpmdata+ real protocolon "modified" new potato install w/gpm > > This situation seems highly undesirable to me, if only because this is not > documented properly anywhere -- and even documenting the current situation in > a way that is clear to the average user (i.e. M$Win convert) is a daunting > task. > > Apart from changing nothing and leaving our users completely in the dark, > there seem to be two options: > > a. Let gpm default to repeating in raw mode (to solve 6.), and add a very >clear notice that X should be (re)configured with /dev/gpmdata but using >the real protocol -- but when gpm is either stopped or removed/purged, that >the X config should be changed again (!! I don't know any package that >requires _another_ package to be _manually_ reconfigured on install/ >remove). > > b. Let gpm default to not repeating at all, without needing any further >documentation (AFAIK; I don't remember questions on gpm <-> X behaviour >in slink). > > Obviously, b. is the right choice (IMHO ;-). Furthermore, a fix to this effect > seems more than necessary to go into 2.2r1. > > Or... is there a flaw in my logic? Or is there some very important reason for > gpm's current behaviour? > > > Regards, > Anne Bezemer > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
