Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
It has been suggested that you install symlinks[*] but provide an /etc/default/foo file with an environment variable that forcibly disables the service when set to off or whatever, and that the initscript be written so that it overrides this forced disabling when run from the command line. Of course this can be made to work but it is a bad hack. Bad because it doesn't use Debian's standard mechanism for configuring services. The idea behind initscripts is that they do what they are told when they are run. sysv-rc and file-rc implement two different schemes for determining when they are run and with what arguments. I don't see why people keep trying to undermine the standard mechanism. Under the circumstances you describe it is reasonable to refrain from installing symlinks[*] in runlevel directories. I think you are justified in deleting the symlinks on purge too, so I suggest you simply override lintian and linda. [*] (or do the file-rc equivalent, which happens automatically if file-rc is installed because you use update-rc.d) -- Thomas Hood
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:49:13 +0100, Thomas Hood wrote: [...] The idea behind initscripts is that they do what they are told when they are run. sysv-rc and file-rc implement two different schemes for determining when they are run and with what arguments. I don't see why people keep trying to undermine the standard mechanism. Under the circumstances you describe it is reasonable to refrain from installing symlinks[*] in runlevel directories. I think you are justified in deleting the symlinks on purge too, so I suggest you simply override lintian and linda. Amen. Well, almost. Under current sysv-rc semantics invoke-rc.d defauls to running the script if neither S nor K links are present. And there were reasonable arguments given for this behaviour. Thus, if Nicolas would want to use invoke-rc.d to maybe run the init script of his package on upgrades, it would be necessary to install K links by default. But maybe just not running the script on upgrade even if the S link is present is the correct solution for athcool. I don't know. -- Micha Politowski Talking has been known to lead to communication if practised carelessly. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
On Thursday 16 December 2004 00.34, Nicolas Boullis wrote: [de-installing run-level links that weren't installed] How about installing links as /etc/rc?.d/K??foo - so the links are there and are properly manageable, but the init script will only be called as 'K??foo stop' -- vbi -- Segunda ley ecológica: Nunca nada se va del todo. -- Commoner. pgpxgdJd9s49O.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 02:11:06AM +0100, Nicolas Boullis wrote: Hi, On Wed, Dec 15, 2004 at 04:33:49PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: A technique that I've used in packages with this issue is to install the rc*.d symlinks by default, but also have the init script check a file in /etc/default to see whether or not to actually start at boot. If you install a default /etc/default file that says not to start, you accomplish the same thing, don't have this problem, and make it just as easy for users to enable the package. Thanks for your suggestion. I already thought about it, but I fnind it quite confusing when I cannot run /etc/init.d/foobar by hand as soon as it is not enabled on startup. Well, you could have a message saying that you need to enable foo and a 'force-start' action that started it regardless of what's in /etc/default. Moreover, the script could check if it's being called on startup (it's name is 'S') and heed the default value and start anyway if called from the command line. There are plenty of ways to avoid that confusion. Regards Javier signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
Hi, On Wed, Dec 15, 2004 at 08:47:43PM -0600, John Hasler wrote: Your script should check $PRERUNLEVEL. It will be N if you are booting. That's a nice idea, but do you know how fine it would behave with things like file-rc? Nicolas
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
Hi, On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 09:32:08AM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: Well, you could have a message saying that you need to enable foo and a 'force-start' action that started it regardless of what's in /etc/default. That might be a solution. Users would certainly be less confused, but some scripts they would have written would still be... Moreover, the script could check if it's being called on startup (it's name is 'S') and heed the default value and start anyway if called from the command line. I think such a solution was suggested in an ancient thread, and it was concluded that it would not work with file-rc... There are plenty of ways to avoid that confusion. There certainly are some workarounds, but my initial question is still unanswered: is it ok to remove the links if I did not create them but told the user how to create them? Nicolas
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 12:53:27AM -0500, sean finney wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 12:34:21AM +0100, Nicolas Boullis wrote: But a user felt concerned that, in the future, he may remove the package and forget to delete the links. Then I thought I could remove the links in postrm on purge, considering they are part of the package's configuration (their absence being the default configuration). if the package is removed, the init script should just exit with 0 status. removing the links during purge would also be appropriate. So you think lintian is wrong to complain? you could also install the links by default, but have some other variable in /etc/default/$package control whether or not it actually starts (i think somebody else has mentioned this too). Yes, I know such solutions but don't like them much. But if my solution is proved to be wrong, I'll implement such a workaround... Nicolas
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
Hi, On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 09:13:43AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote: On Thursday 16 December 2004 00.34, Nicolas Boullis wrote: [de-installing run-level links that weren't installed] How about installing links as /etc/rc?.d/K??foo - so the links are there and are properly manageable, but the init script will only be called as 'K??foo stop' Unfortunately, athcool is not a deamon but a program that modifies some low-level configuration. Hence, running /etc/init.d/athcool stop actually does something (and might break the system) as badly as /etc/init.d/athcool start... I like the idea, but I'm afraid it's not appropriate for athcool, at least without reworking the init script... Cheers, Nicolas
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 02:16:00AM +0100, Nicolas Boullis wrote: if the package is removed, the init script should just exit with 0 status. removing the links during purge would also be appropriate. So you think lintian is wrong to complain? no, i think lintian is correct to complain, but that you're also within reason to remove those symlinks if the package is purged. you could also install the links by default, but have some other variable in /etc/default/$package control whether or not it actually starts (i think somebody else has mentioned this too). Yes, I know such solutions but don't like them much. But if my solution is proved to be wrong, I'll implement such a workaround... what's so bad about such a solution? i think it's simple to implement, easy to understand, and less prone to break. sean -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
I wrote: Your script should check [$PREVLEVEL]. It will be N if you are booting. Nicolas writes: That's a nice idea, but do you know how fine it would behave with things like file-rc? It should work fine. Note that this method _only_ controls script execution at boot time. If you also want to prevent the service from being started on a runlevel change you have to do something else such as checking $0. -- John Hasler
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
I wrote: If you also want to prevent the service from being started on a runlevel change you have to do something else such as checking $0. Init exports RUNLEVEL, PREVLEVEL, and INIT_VERSION. Thus INIT_VERSION will be set if you are booting or changing runlevels. -- John Hasler
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
Nicolas Boullis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A package of mine installs an init script. But as the corresponding programs plays with the motherboard's chipset configuration, it is quite prone to break the system. So I chose not to install rc*.d symlinks by default. A technique that I've used in packages with this issue is to install the rc*.d symlinks by default, but also have the init script check a file in /etc/default to see whether or not to actually start at boot. If you install a default /etc/default file that says not to start, you accomplish the same thing, don't have this problem, and make it just as easy for users to enable the package. -- Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
Hi, On Wed, Dec 15, 2004 at 04:33:49PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: A technique that I've used in packages with this issue is to install the rc*.d symlinks by default, but also have the init script check a file in /etc/default to see whether or not to actually start at boot. If you install a default /etc/default file that says not to start, you accomplish the same thing, don't have this problem, and make it just as easy for users to enable the package. Thanks for your suggestion. I already thought about it, but I fnind it quite confusing when I cannot run /etc/init.d/foobar by hand as soon as it is not enabled on startup. Cheers, Nicolas
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
Nicolas writes: I already thought about it, but I fnind it quite confusing when I cannot run /etc/init.d/foobar by hand as soon as it is not enabled on startup. Your script should check $PRERUNLEVEL. It will be N if you are booting. -- John Hasler
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
I wrote:
Your script should check $PRERUNLEVEL. It will be N if you are booting.
That should be $PREVLEVEL.
--
John Hasler
Re: removing in postrm rc*.d symlinks that I did not create
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 12:34:21AM +0100, Nicolas Boullis wrote: But a user felt concerned that, in the future, he may remove the package and forget to delete the links. Then I thought I could remove the links in postrm on purge, considering they are part of the package's configuration (their absence being the default configuration). if the package is removed, the init script should just exit with 0 status. removing the links during purge would also be appropriate. you could also install the links by default, but have some other variable in /etc/default/$package control whether or not it actually starts (i think somebody else has mentioned this too). sean -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
