Re: screenshots.debian.net
Daniel Burrows wrote: [...] I'm not surprised that the bandwidth consumption is excessive, though. I'll think it over once I figure out why my VteTerminals self-destruct when I hide them... What about using the coral network? http://screenshots.debian.net.nyud.net/ Have fun! (yes, that reduces both load and bandwidth usage). Btw, http://wiki.coralcdn.org/wiki.php?n=Main.Servers has some info so that the coral network can be used automagically (they even have one trick for slashdot... but I guess the recent news entry wouldn't have been much fun with it) Daniel Cheers, Raphael Geissert -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 09:12:08PM -0800, Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: I'm not surprised that the bandwidth consumption is excessive, though. I'll think it over once I figure out why my VteTerminals self-destruct when I hide them... For anyone who cares, the answer was your VteTerminals self-destruct when you tell them to in a corner of the code you forgot about. D'oh! Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:12:26PM -0800, Daniel Burrows wrote: On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 07:46:27PM +0100, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: On Sonntag, 16. November 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:18:26PM +0100, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Thumbnail (= 160x120 pixels): http://screenshots.debian.net/thumbnail/PACKAGENAME (this URL returns a dummy thumbnail if no screenshot was found) Just one quick question: will there eventually be support for different versions to have different screenshots? Occasionally there's a big difference across versions, and users might want to see it. [..] Oh, and a third question while I'm at it: what sort of bandwidth is available for this system? I imagine that automatically fetching thumbnails for an entire list of a few hundred packages would be poor manners. Do you think you can handle fetching the thumbnail of each package the user clicks on? I was pondering about this problem as well and solved it for now by adding a little button into the package description in synaptic that fetches the thumbnail when clicked. Clicking on the thumb again gives the big image. This ensures that casual browsing of the package list does not generate network traffic on s.d.n I think even that will be quite a hit to screenshots.debian.net. I imagine in the future it may make sense to have a package for this (this was suggested already IIRC) so that the download bw is spread over all the mirrors. Cheers, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 10:02:45PM +0200, George Danchev [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: On Monday 17 November 2008 18:13:55 Daniel Burrows wrote: When the user clicks on a package in the GUI interface, they see the description of the package. I don't know what sort of load this would impose once the interface is out of beta, but I'm guessing it's a lot more than you're seeing through the Web service. I'd like to make good use of this service, but I don't want to turn it into a smoking crater in the process. ;-) I don't really know what image-fetches-per-second translates into at your end, so I guess I'm looking for some guidance. I'm afraid that such frivoulous image fetching would be magnitude or two more heavier to serve than fetching the new packages for today from a local Debian mirror(s), since users are more likely to performe the latter once or twice per day, but the former any time they feel bored or experiencing a long long day ;-) I don't think this is frivolous: for programs that are graphical, it can be very useful to see what the program looks like before you run it. I'm not surprised that the bandwidth consumption is excessive, though. I'll think it over once I figure out why my VteTerminals self-destruct when I hide them... Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 20:44 +0100, Michael Vogt wrote: I was pondering about this problem as well and solved it for now by adding a little button into the package description in synaptic that fetches the thumbnail when clicked. Clicking on the thumb again gives the big image. This ensures that casual browsing of the package list does not generate network traffic on s.d.n I think even that will be quite a hit to screenshots.debian.net. I imagine in the future it may make sense to have a package for this (this was suggested already IIRC) so that the download bw is spread over all the mirrors. Local caching may also be an option. Regards, Martin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Montag, 17. November 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote: On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 07:46:27PM +0100, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: There should be a way to select what screenshot you want. I'm saving the version number along with the screenshot. Personally, I would rather be able to provide a version number and then get the best screenshot you have. What is the best? :) Then I could show a matching screenshot if there was one, and *something* if there wasn't. I can add a version parameter to the /thumbnail requests that would give you only a thumbnail for the exact version. Just keep in mind that by default the web interface suggest the Sid package revision. And that number changes pretty often. So I'd say it's not likely you will get a certain screenshots for your desired version. Unless of course you query for the Lenny version. But I assume that most people just accept that automatically displayed revision number even though the screenshots comes from Lenny. So I'd say in 99% of the cases you get nothing. Also, would it be possible to get an API for uploading screenshots? (I say that as if I had any clue how to invoke such an API...) There is one. It uses the HTTP protocol. :) Just do an HTTP POST request and send the three fields like in the upload form. Oh, and a third question while I'm at it: what sort of bandwidth is available for this system? The current sponsor (who was pretty surprised how much CPU power and bandwidth it used - I'm working intensely with him to reduce the load) provided space on a server hosted at the german provider Strato. Expect good uplinks. The server system itself has a 100 Mbps NIC. Traffic limit is 1 TB. I imagine that automatically fetching thumbnails for an entire list of a few hundred packages would be poor manners. Let's find a better way to do that if you need more than what's usually requested via the web interface. Traffic is less the problem than CPU load probably. Unless you just do that once of course. Do you think you can handle fetching the thumbnail of each package the user clicks on? I currently do. Or how do you mean? Christoph -- A guess is just a guess until you turn it into a pie chart. Then it's an analysis. (Scott Adams) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008, Christoph Haas wrote: On Montag, 17. November 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote: Personally, I would rather be able to provide a version number and then get the best screenshot you have. What is the best? :) I have o idea what Daniel had in mind, but I'd regard the screenshot which has the same version and if this is not available the latest available version as the best. I can add a version parameter to the /thumbnail requests that would give you only a thumbnail for the exact version. Just keep in mind that by default the web interface suggest the Sid package revision. So this reasonable default as a fallback if the specified version is not available fits my perception of the best. It might be reasonable to accept Etch, Lenny, etc. as version of a package as well. So I'd say in 99% of the cases you get nothing. If there is *any* version of a screenshot I would prefer getting this over nothing. Do you think you can handle fetching the thumbnail of each package the user clicks on? I currently do. Or how do you mean? Again I do not know what Daniel means but what I would need is check = check_if_screenshot_is_available() if check: insert_link_to_thumbnail() else: create_link_to_enable_user_to_upload_screenshot() So I would need an API whether there is a screenshot available or not. It seems stupid to try to download a whole thumbnail to obtain this information. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 11:49:06AM +0100, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: On Montag, 17. November 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote: On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 07:46:27PM +0100, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: There should be a way to select what screenshot you want. I'm saving the version number along with the screenshot. Personally, I would rather be able to provide a version number and then get the best screenshot you have. What is the best? :) I deliberately left that vague because I wasn't sure. :-) If there's an exact match, I would return that image; otherwise, I don't really care. The same thing the unversioned page returns would be fine and probably better than trying to be clever and find a good match. Then I could show a matching screenshot if there was one, and *something* if there wasn't. I can add a version parameter to the /thumbnail requests that would give you only a thumbnail for the exact version. Just keep in mind that by default the web interface suggest the Sid package revision. And that number changes pretty often. So I'd say it's not likely you will get a certain screenshots for your desired version. Unless of course you query for the Lenny version. But I assume that most people just accept that automatically displayed revision number even though the screenshots comes from Lenny. So I'd say in 99% of the cases you get nothing. Well, I expect the common use case here would be users trying to select software in stable (or maybe testing). Also, would it be possible to get an API for uploading screenshots? (I say that as if I had any clue how to invoke such an API...) There is one. It uses the HTTP protocol. :) Just do an HTTP POST request and send the three fields like in the upload form. Err...when I go to upload I get a webform, not a URL to point to? How do I generate an HTTP POST request in C++? Open a TCP socket and send some magic down it? I guess I can find an RFC with the right Google query... I imagine that automatically fetching thumbnails for an entire list of a few hundred packages would be poor manners. Let's find a better way to do that if you need more than what's usually requested via the web interface. Traffic is less the problem than CPU load probably. Unless you just do that once of course. To explain my offhand comment more clearly. Let's just say, hypothetically speaking, that I'm the developer of a GUI package manager for Debian. It would be nice (where by nice I mean *really UBERCOOL*) if, whenever users see a list of packages, they could see a little thumbnail next to each package with a screenshot of the package. When the user mouses over the screenshot, I could pop up a tooltip and fetch the full image into it. My comment was that while I think this would be a really nice feature for my software, it seems like it would probably put too much of a burden on your resources. I doubt there's any way to do this in a way that decreases the load, but maybe you have ideas I'm missing. Do you think you can handle fetching the thumbnail of each package the user clicks on? I currently do. Or how do you mean? When the user clicks on a package in the GUI interface, they see the description of the package. I don't know what sort of load this would impose once the interface is out of beta, but I'm guessing it's a lot more than you're seeing through the Web service. I'd like to make good use of this service, but I don't want to turn it into a smoking crater in the process. ;-) I don't really know what image-fetches-per-second translates into at your end, so I guess I'm looking for some guidance. Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Monday 17 November 2008 18:13:55 Daniel Burrows wrote: --cut-- There is one. It uses the HTTP protocol. :) Just do an HTTP POST request and send the three fields like in the upload form. Err...when I go to upload I get a webform, not a URL to point to? How do I generate an HTTP POST request in C++? Open a TCP socket and send some magic down it? I guess I can find an RFC with the right Google query... You are probably looking for Poco::Net::HTMLForm and Poco::Net::HTTPRequest* classes found in the poco library (already in Debian along with documentation package) or at least to see their implementations as found in Net/src. When the user clicks on a package in the GUI interface, they see the description of the package. I don't know what sort of load this would impose once the interface is out of beta, but I'm guessing it's a lot more than you're seeing through the Web service. I'd like to make good use of this service, but I don't want to turn it into a smoking crater in the process. ;-) I don't really know what image-fetches-per-second translates into at your end, so I guess I'm looking for some guidance. I'm afraid that such frivoulous image fetching would be magnitude or two more heavier to serve than fetching the new packages for today from a local Debian mirror(s), since users are more likely to performe the latter once or twice per day, but the former any time they feel bored or experiencing a long long day ;-) -- pub 4096R/0E4BD0AB 2003-03-18 people.fccf.net/danchev/key pgp.mit.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Mon,17.Nov.08, 08:13:55, Daniel Burrows wrote: Let's just say, hypothetically speaking, that I'm the developer of a GUI package manager for Debian. It would be nice (where by nice I mean *really UBERCOOL*) if, whenever users see a list of packages, they could see a little thumbnail next to each package with a screenshot of the package. When the user mouses over the screenshot, I could pop up a tooltip and fetch the full image into it. My comment was that while I think this would be a really nice feature for my software, it seems like it would probably put too much of a burden on your resources. I doubt there's any way to do this in a way that decreases the load, but maybe you have ideas I'm missing. Maybe for stable it would make sense to create a debian-screenshots package that could be used by all package managers wishing to provide this or similar functionality. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 5:46 AM, Andrei Popescu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe for stable it would make sense to create a debian-screenshots package that could be used by all package managers wishing to provide this or similar functionality. There is already a games-thumbnails package (used by goplay), which contains 320x240 thumbnails. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
2008/11/15 Andreas Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Miriam Ruiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/11/11 Darren Salt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Good idea. 110x80 would be a nice size for the thumbnails. I think it would be better to try to keep a 4:3 ratio. I disagree; the aspect ratio of the screenshot would be correct. Sorry? In which way is 110X80 a correct ratio? Conventional screens are 4:3 or 16:9, and most usual resolutions keep 4:3 ratio (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768...) Strangely computer monitors at 24'' and above are usually 16:10 (1920x1200 and 2560x1600) instead of 16:9 (1920x1080 is rather rare). cu and- another aspect ratio, rilliant ideas everywhere -reas Well, my experience with games-thumbnails show me that most of the games that have a fixed screen ratio go for 4:3. Then, it's possible that it's just the games. Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:18:26PM +0100, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Thumbnail (= 160x120 pixels): http://screenshots.debian.net/thumbnail/PACKAGENAME (this URL returns a dummy thumbnail if no screenshot was found) Just one quick question: will there eventually be support for different versions to have different screenshots? Occasionally there's a big difference across versions, and users might want to see it. Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Sonntag, 16. November 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:18:26PM +0100, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Thumbnail (= 160x120 pixels): http://screenshots.debian.net/thumbnail/PACKAGENAME (this URL returns a dummy thumbnail if no screenshot was found) Just one quick question: will there eventually be support for different versions to have different screenshots? Occasionally there's a big difference across versions, and users might want to see it. There should be a way to select what screenshot you want. I'm saving the version number along with the screenshot. So in theory I could tell which one is for a newer version of the software than the other (although I'd have to 'dpkg --compare-versions' because I couldn't think of an SQL function to do that yet). But I wouldn't know which one was for Etch or Lenny without some additional queries on data I don't have yet. I'm open for suggestions. :) Christoph -- A guess is just a guess until you turn it into a pie chart. Then it's an analysis. (Scott Adams) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net
Christoph Haas wrote: [...] There should be a way to select what screenshot you want. I'm saving the version number along with the screenshot. So in theory I could tell which one is for a newer version of the software than the other (although I'd have to 'dpkg --compare-versions' because I couldn't think of an SQL function to do that yet). http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/collab-qa/udd/sql/debvercmp.sql?view=markup But I wouldn't know which one was for Etch or Lenny without some additional queries on data I don't have yet. You can always import the data on your own or use udd I'm open for suggestions. :) Christoph Cheers, Raphael Geissert -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 07:46:27PM +0100, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: On Sonntag, 16. November 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:18:26PM +0100, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Thumbnail (= 160x120 pixels): http://screenshots.debian.net/thumbnail/PACKAGENAME (this URL returns a dummy thumbnail if no screenshot was found) Just one quick question: will there eventually be support for different versions to have different screenshots? Occasionally there's a big difference across versions, and users might want to see it. There should be a way to select what screenshot you want. I'm saving the version number along with the screenshot. So in theory I could tell which one is for a newer version of the software than the other (although I'd have to 'dpkg --compare-versions' because I couldn't think of an SQL function to do that yet). But I wouldn't know which one was for Etch or Lenny without some additional queries on data I don't have yet. Personally, I would rather be able to provide a version number and then get the best screenshot you have. Then I could show a matching screenshot if there was one, and *something* if there wasn't. Also, would it be possible to get an API for uploading screenshots? (I say that as if I had any clue how to invoke such an API...) Oh, and a third question while I'm at it: what sort of bandwidth is available for this system? I imagine that automatically fetching thumbnails for an entire list of a few hundred packages would be poor manners. Do you think you can handle fetching the thumbnail of each package the user clicks on? Thanks, Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:18:26PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: I would love to see the screenshots integrated into packages.debian.org and perhaps they even get used in graphical package managers like synaptic, kpackage, adept or gnome-apt. It is easy to refer to screenshots from your own application or web site. Just use these URLs: Thumbnail (= 160x120 pixels): http://screenshots.debian.net/thumbnail/PACKAGENAME (this URL returns a dummy thumbnail if no screenshot was found) Package's page with all available screenshots: http://screenshots.debian.net/package/PACKAGENAME I've a suggestion / feature request for the API. Can you please add the equivalent of the thumbnail URL which returns the bigger image? I imagine that there can be applications which want to show first the thumbnail and then, e.g. upon click/selection, the bigger version of the thumbnail for further user-inspection. Right now, this is possible only by either embedding some web-browser widget to show the /package/ URL, or by spawning an external web browser. An intermediate level would be good, and I guess it's trivial to add. TIA, Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 [EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Samstag, 15. November 2008, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:18:26PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: I would love to see the screenshots integrated into packages.debian.org and perhaps they even get used in graphical package managers like synaptic, kpackage, adept or gnome-apt. It is easy to refer to screenshots from your own application or web site. Just use these URLs: Thumbnail (= 160x120 pixels): http://screenshots.debian.net/thumbnail/PACKAGENAME (this URL returns a dummy thumbnail if no screenshot was found) Package's page with all available screenshots: http://screenshots.debian.net/package/PACKAGENAME I've a suggestion / feature request for the API. Can you please add the equivalent of the thumbnail URL which returns the bigger image? Yes, Michael Vogt has also requested this. He has already built a feature into 'synaptic' to load screenshots and asked to have a URL for the large image. Currently I'm moving things around a little to improve the performance (the server is way more loaded than I expected) but next on my list is the API. I imagine that there can be applications which want to show first the thumbnail and then, e.g. upon click/selection, the bigger version of the thumbnail for further user-inspection. Right now, this is possible only by either embedding some web-browser widget to show the /package/ URL, or by spawning an external web browser. Exactly how Michael argued. :) An intermediate level would be good, and I guess it's trivial to add. Yes, it is. I'll have it done during this weekend. Cheers Christoph -- A guess is just a guess until you turn it into a pie chart. Then it's an analysis. (Scott Adams) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Martin Stigge wrote: What about: People can contribute screenshots in whatever language they want and the screenshot will be language-tagged. A viewer-frontend can then adopt a behavior like show all screenshots of my language, and if none exist, fallback to English. (Or optionally append English ones even if native-language ones exist, or append all, or whatever strategy you want..) This is more or less the widely accepted gettext behaviour: Try a native language and use English as fallback. I just want to make sure that the API will realise this. In practice I think that if users see a real need to provide non-English screenshots they will do and we will finally settle down with some active translated screenshots as we have some actively translated gettext messages and those who do not care that much. But if we do not consider this feature at the point of designing the API we might be forced later to change the API. I just want to avoid this change which will cause some effort later if it is predictable that it will be needed later. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Miriam Ruiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/11/11 Darren Salt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Good idea. 110x80 would be a nice size for the thumbnails. I think it would be better to try to keep a 4:3 ratio. I disagree; the aspect ratio of the screenshot would be correct. Sorry? In which way is 110X80 a correct ratio? Conventional screens are 4:3 or 16:9, and most usual resolutions keep 4:3 ratio (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768...) Strangely computer monitors at 24'' and above are usually 16:10 (1920x1200 and 2560x1600) instead of 16:9 (1920x1080 is rather rare). cu and- another aspect ratio, rilliant ideas everywhere -reas -- `What a good friend you are to him, Dr. Maturin. His other friends are so grateful to you.' `I sew his ears on from time to time, sure' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Freitag, 14. November 2008, Andreas Tille wrote: Please excuse my cumbersomeness but may I repeat my hint that a potential Screenshots 2.0 system should enable multi language screenshots. I'm in big favour of translating everything which is targeting at end users and screenshots are definitely an end user application. I'm about to make the application i18n-savvy. But I'm more thinking of the text messages in the web interface than of the screenshots. Screenshots in several languages carry very little different information IMHO and don't warrant the extra hard disk space and effort to have them on the web server. Or am I totally off here? :) Christoph -- A guess is just a guess until you turn it into a pie chart. Then it's an analysis. (Scott Adams) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net
Hi, kudos from me for this nice service as well!! On Friday 14 November 2008 10:28, Christoph Haas wrote: Screenshots in several languages carry very little different information IMHO and don't warrant the extra hard disk space and effort to have them on the web server. Or am I totally off here? :) I think so. Just imagine the screenshots for many applications are submitted in chinese or arabic... regards, Holger pgpngvTBqzJUa.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 10:28:52AM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: I'm about to make the application i18n-savvy. But I'm more thinking of the text messages in the web interface than of the screenshots. Screenshots in several languages carry very little different information IMHO and don't warrant the extra hard disk space and effort to have them on the web server. Or am I totally off here? :) I think it would be pointless to reach a scenario where people are encouraged to submit the same screenshot for all different languages. That would be a PITA to maintain and unnecessary in most cases. Still, for different alphabets there might be an added value. AFAICT it is possible that an application looks sensibly different when using a left-to-right vs a right-to-left language. Maybe the right solution is support some kind of language tagging to be associated to each screenshot. Still, IMO we should refrain to encourage arbitrary screenshot translations. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 [EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net
Quoting Stefano Zacchiroli ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Still, for different alphabets there might be an added value. AFAICT it is possible that an application looks sensibly different when using a left-to-right vs a right-to-left language. Indeed, I support zack's suggestion. Allowing multiple screenshots but only one per *script* (as defined by ISO 15924see the iso-codes package) would restrict this to something manageable. FYI, there are currently 131 scripts registered in ISO-15924, but we can expect only 1 or 2 dozens of these to be commonly supported in FLOSS applications. Of course, i18n of the web interface probably comes first. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net
2008/11/14 Stefano Zacchiroli [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Maybe the right solution is support some kind of language tagging to be associated to each screenshot. +1 Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
Hi Christoph, There's a little typo on the page ... appliation. Also, when you say English, which one do you mean? Cheers, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net
Hi, Michael... On Donnerstag, 13. November 2008, Michael Lamothe wrote: There's a little typo on the page ... appliation. Thanks, fixed. Also, when you say English, which one do you mean? I mean that west germanic language[0]. I wouldn't delete a screenshot just because one uses 's' where the other uses 'z'. :) [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language Cheers Christoph -- A guess is just a guess until you turn it into a pie chart. Then it's an analysis. (Scott Adams) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008, Christoph Haas wrote: Thanks, fixed. Also, when you say English, which one do you mean? I mean that west germanic language[0]. I wouldn't delete a screenshot just because one uses 's' where the other uses 'z'. :) [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language Please excuse my cumbersomeness but may I repeat my hint that a potential Screenshots 2.0 system should enable multi language screenshots. I'm in big favour of translating everything which is targeting at end users and screenshots are definitely an end user application. Kind regards - and again many thanks for this very cool stuff Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Thank you for this great service! I found a bug in the search results. If you go to another page of the search results (e.g. 2), you go back on the page browsing screenshots. I think there is a wrong link to the next pages. I do not know the bug is already known?! Regards Marc On Mon, 10 Nov 2008, Christoph Haas wrote: Fellow developers... it took a little longer than I expected but I finally launched http://screenshots.debian.net after two weeks of programming fun. It is an effort to help users get an idea what a certain application does and how it looks like by offering screenshots. It was suggested by Roberto in January 2008 and I re-raised the discussion in July. Please take a look at the site, consider uploading screenshots of your favorite application and give some feedback. The approach is rather open. Everybody can upload screenshots. But they won't be visible until a member of the admin team approves them (to make sure we don't catch spam and porn). As soon as the application is stable I'd like to get 1-2 people on the admin team to watch the moderation queue. (If you see your own screenshots it's because I identify browsers by a cookie I send so that mistakenly uploaded images can be removed by the uploader.) Have fun and let me know what you think. Cheers Christoph P.S.: Bear with me if the service is down for a minute or two. I'm deploying a few minor updated to fix bugs I get reported. -- ~ ~ .signature [Modified] 1 line --100%--1,48 All -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Marc, On Mittwoch, 12. November 2008, Marc Bertram wrote: Thank you for this great service! Great you like it. I found a bug in the search results. If you go to another page of the search results (e.g. 2), you go back on the page browsing screenshots. I think there is a wrong link to the next pages. I just know that the search term is disappearing right after a search. So paging through the search result currently isn't working. I have it fixed already and will deploy the changed version soon. Thanks for the hint. Christoph -- A guess is just a guess until you turn it into a pie chart. Then it's an analysis. (Scott Adams) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also need lists of packages without screenshots for a given dist: s.d.n/needed/sid/a s.d.n/needed/etch/b In a similar vein, it might be a good idea to have per-maintainer lists of packages with outdated screenshots or no screenshots, similar to the debtags todo pages: http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Hi,
Christoph Haas wrote:
On Montag, 10. November 2008, Jon Dowland wrote:
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:05:32PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote:
Have fun and let me know what you think.
Thank you for this; it looks very nice!
+1
* what does the search field operate on? A search for 'games' shows up
gridlock.app which contains 'games' in the short description, and is
in category games. I'm not sure which it matched on. If only the
short text, it would be nice to search on other criteria.
Currently it's a case-insensitive search over the package name and short
description. I'm open to suggestions.
Browsing by section names (kde, games, mail, ...) or limiting the search to
certain sections would be nice as well.
Cheers,
Wolf
--
Calculators are Weapons of Math Instruction. ('freitasm', seen on /.)
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Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:05:32PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: Have fun and let me know what you think. Another minor one: when browsing through the result of a package search, please repeat somewhere the search string, a-la-google result for search foo bar baz. It just happened to me that I went back to an old search result page and it took me a while to understand what I was browsing through :) Thanks! Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 [EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è sempre /oo\ All one has to do is hit the right uno zaino-- A.Bergonzoni \__/ keys at the right time -- J.S.Bach signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
I demand that Miriam Ruiz may or may not have written... 2008/11/11 Noah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:38:44AM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: I believe the answer is that in the future there will be more screenshot, but what about giving the ability of seeing one (maybe the most popular) screenshot directly from the result page? Good idea. 110x80 would be a nice size for the thumbnails. I think it would be better to try to keep a 4:3 ratio. I disagree; the aspect ratio of the screenshot would be correct. -- | Darren Salt| linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon | RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army | + Buy less and make it last longer. INDUSTRY CAUSES GLOBAL WARMING. The only thing funnier than how things don't work out is how they do. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
2008/11/11 Darren Salt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Good idea. 110x80 would be a nice size for the thumbnails. I think it would be better to try to keep a 4:3 ratio. I disagree; the aspect ratio of the screenshot would be correct. Sorry? In which way is 110X80 a correct ratio? Conventional screens are 4:3 or 16:9, and most usual resolutions keep 4:3 ratio (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768...) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 08:54:07PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote: I think it would be better to try to keep a 4:3 ratio. I disagree; the aspect ratio of the screenshot would be correct. Conventional screens are 4:3 or 16:9, and most usual resolutions keep 4:3 ratio (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768...) Isn't the two of you assuming that screenshots are always took in fullscreen mode? That isn't neither stated in screenshot.d.n guidelines, nor reasonable. So it can be that your disagreement is not that relevant :) Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 [EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è sempre /oo\ All one has to do is hit the right uno zaino-- A.Bergonzoni \__/ keys at the right time -- J.S.Bach signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 09:24:18PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 08:54:07PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote: I think it would be better to try to keep a 4:3 ratio. I disagree; the aspect ratio of the screenshot would be correct. Conventional screens are 4:3 or 16:9, and most usual resolutions keep 4:3 ratio (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768...) Isn't the two of you assuming that screenshots are always took in fullscreen mode? That isn't neither stated in screenshot.d.n guidelines, nor reasonable. So it can be that your disagreement is not that relevant :) Not at all, I was assuming that no matter what size the uploaded image is, it would be scaled down to fit inside a bounding box and placed in the centre of a white canvas. So the question remains, how large to make the canvas. -- Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
2008/11/11 Noah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So it can be that your disagreement is not that relevant :) I won't keep on arguing that, my point was clear enough. Not at all, I was assuming that no matter what size the uploaded image is, it would be scaled down to fit inside a bounding box and placed in the centre of a white canvas. So the question remains, how large to make the canvas. If there's some way to get that kind of image in a 320x240 canvas, I'll modify goplay to get and use them. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 05:49:40PM -0600, Raphael Geissert wrote: I do think the page lengths, or result count per page, could be increased. +1 AOL. ... and on the same subject, is there a restriction of one screenshot per package (I believe not), because currently the pages of the single packages feel a bit empty to the point that one wonders why the screenshot can't be shown right away when clicking on the package name in the result page. I believe the answer is that in the future there will be more screenshot, but what about giving the ability of seeing one (maybe the most popular) screenshot directly from the result page? Cheers and thanks again. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 [EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è sempre /oo\ All one has to do is hit the right uno zaino-- A.Bergonzoni \__/ keys at the right time -- J.S.Bach signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
2008/11/11 Noah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:38:44AM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: I believe the answer is that in the future there will be more screenshot, but what about giving the ability of seeing one (maybe the most popular) screenshot directly from the result page? Good idea. 110x80 would be a nice size for the thumbnails. I think it would be better to try to keep a 4:3 ratio. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Dienstag, 11. November 2008, Paul Wise wrote: On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Raphael Geissert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * When browsing the packages list it would be great if you could also provide links to browse packages by name (e.g. A, B, C, etc, you get what I mean). * Have you considered storing more information together with the images? (the version of the package is what I believe is the most relevant missing information). Version info would be useful for providing a list of packages with outdated screenshots in any given dist (sid/etch). Also, I think multiple screenshots per package are needed so that the packages.d.o/sid/foo and packages.d.o/etch/foo pages can point to the right screenshots. s.d.n/outdated/sid/a s.d.n/outdated/etch/b Also need lists of packages without screenshots for a given dist: s.d.n/needed/sid/a s.d.n/needed/etch/b That would work for Etch - but not for Sid because it's a moving target. So far I would just stick to the version number (not yet implemented). Christoph signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue Nov 11, 2008 at 01:02:42 +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: * There are 14 pages and the navigation is truncated to 'Page: 1 2 3 .. 14 '. Could you (optionally) display links to all pages? Or alter the number of results per page (increase, or make user configurable)? I'll change the pager radius to 10. Will be fixed in the next deployment. I'd love a random link in there somewhere too.. Steve -- # The Debian Security Audit Project. http://www.debian.org/security/audit -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Dienstag, 11. November 2008, Paul Wise wrote: On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also need lists of packages without screenshots for a given dist: s.d.n/needed/sid/a s.d.n/needed/etch/b In a similar vein, it might be a good idea to have per-maintainer lists of packages with outdated screenshots or no screenshots, similar to the debtags todo pages: http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Good idea. So that maintainers can check whether screenshots of their own packages are still up to date or lacking images. Put on the todo list. Christoph signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Dienstag, 11. November 2008, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 01:02:42AM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: * There are 14 pages and the navigation is truncated to 'Page: 1 2 3 .. 14 '. Could you (optionally) display links to all pages? Or alter the number of results per page (increase, or make user configurable)? I'll change the pager radius to 10. Will be fixed in the next deployment. Actually, in the long run I don't think it will be a good idea of having all pages link, but a radius increase is good. Seconded. But this brings me to another idea: Given how short the current package listing pages are, how about adding an extra column showing right away in the browsing table the most popular screenshot, with the same super-cool effect which is then used in the per-package page? That would add the benefit of browsing visually through packages. Of course the same could be done for the search result page. I got asked whether I could create a table of packages with the thumbnails shown already (or perhaps a checkbox to enable that in the usual table). That would save some clicking and navigating. According to my understanding of the frameworks like Pylons, that would impact a bit on performances, as you'd have to pre-fetch some screenshots, but given the current size of lists it can be acceptable, can't it? Perhaps I can put a Squid in front if that really affects performance. Until the service is heavily used and linked from packages.d.o I don't expect much load though. Also, I fail to understand if the screenshots are indexed per binary-package or per source-package. Given you link to package.d.o I presume the former, but then have you thought about how to reconcile screenshots coming from different binary packages? Should they? Currently it's per binary package. It has the advantage that users (who are the main beneficians from the screenshots service IMHO) don't care about source packages but want to see screenshots for the packages they can install in synaptic or aptitude. Some of the binary packages (e.g. *-data or *-dbg) don't really need screenshots. I'm working with Enrico's nifty debtags soon to fix that. Christoph signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Hi, Florian... On Dienstag, 11. November 2008, Florian Maier wrote: Christoph Haas wrote: Fellow developers... it took a little longer than I expected but I finally launched http://screenshots.debian.net after two weeks of programming fun. How can i contribute a german translation? ;-) I intend to make the application i18n-savvy. But that's currently not the hightest priority on my todo list. As soon as the other issues are sorted out I'll happily gettextify the application and send you a file to translate. Thanks for the offer. Cheers Christoph -- A guess is just a guess until you turn it into a pie chart. Then it's an analysis. (Scott Adams) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christoph Haas wrote: Fellow developers... it took a little longer than I expected but I finally launched http://screenshots.debian.net after two weeks of programming fun. How can i contribute a german translation? ;-) Regards, Florian - -- Florian Maier gpg fingerprint: 18D6 0A4D 5719 12E6 88DA 6DCC E624 7AF6 8E27 8B26 http://www.marsmenschen.com/ - - http://www.planetlimux.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkZ/5kACgkQLr//NZ0yJvMc9gCfbYuNxSxIlGCkg4MMgM4+FHJB 42oAmgMD11LlH8GaCiqFkMYr5n25CUM5 =0UvD -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 01:02:42AM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: * There are 14 pages and the navigation is truncated to 'Page: 1 2 3 .. 14 '. Could you (optionally) display links to all pages? Or alter the number of results per page (increase, or make user configurable)? I'll change the pager radius to 10. Will be fixed in the next deployment. Actually, in the long run I don't think it will be a good idea of having all pages link, but a radius increase is good. Still, assuming we are going to have screenshot for all packages (which is quite exaggerated, I agree) a different way of navigating would be wonderful, perhaps the usual by first letter, with the addition of liba..libz? No idea how that should cooperate with page numbers though. But this brings me to another idea: Given how short the current package listing pages are, how about adding an extra column showing right away in the browsing table the most popular screenshot, with the same super-cool effect which is then used in the per-package page? That would add the benefit of browsing visually through packages. Of course the same could be done for the search result page. According to my understanding of the frameworks like Pylons, that would impact a bit on performances, as you'd have to pre-fetch some screenshots, but given the current size of lists it can be acceptable, can't it? Also, I fail to understand if the screenshots are indexed per binary-package or per source-package. Given you link to package.d.o I presume the former, but then have you thought about how to reconcile screenshots coming from different binary packages? Should they? * an optional list of packages with screenshots which displayed the thumbnail would be nice. You mean a list where each package shows the screenshots right in the list? That's a nice idea. Minimizes clicking and loading. Put on the todo list. Erm, I believe that's the same discussed above, IOW +1. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 [EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è sempre /oo\ All one has to do is hit the right uno zaino-- A.Bergonzoni \__/ keys at the right time -- J.S.Bach signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Christoph, Christoph Haas wrote: I intend to make the application i18n-savvy. But that's currently not the hightest priority on my todo list. As soon as the other issues are sorted out I'll happily gettextify the application and send you a file to translate. Perfect, just get back to me as soon as you made it through your other todos ;-) Thanks for the offer. You're welcome. Thanks for the webapp! Florian - -- Florian Maier gpg fingerprint: 18D6 0A4D 5719 12E6 88DA 6DCC E624 7AF6 8E27 8B26 http://www.marsmenschen.com/ - - http://www.planetlimux.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkaA3EACgkQLr//NZ0yJvNpqACeIqOFBmD7fsspVfSRhgjEg/v0 tVgAoIxEla3KhUXUXvmak0NTuUYWdQOM =3JIy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Christoph Haas wrote: On Dienstag, 11. November 2008, Paul Wise wrote: [...] s.d.n/needed/sid/a s.d.n/needed/etch/b That would work for Etch - but not for Sid because it's a moving target. So far I would just stick to the version number (not yet implemented). Maybe one for testing would be good. Christoph Cheers, Raphael Geissert -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Paul Wise wrote: [...] Version info would be useful for providing a list of packages with outdated screenshots in any given dist (sid/etch). Also, I think multiple screenshots per package are needed so that the packages.d.o/sid/foo and packages.d.o/etch/foo pages can point to the right screenshots. That's exactly why I suggested that feature, that's for completing my idea :) s.d.n/outdated/sid/a s.d.n/outdated/etch/b Also need lists of packages without screenshots for a given dist: s.d.n/needed/sid/a s.d.n/needed/etch/b Cheers, Raphael Geissert -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Christoph Haas wrote: How can i contribute a german translation? ;-) I intend to make the application i18n-savvy. But that's currently not the hightest priority on my todo list. As soon as the other issues are sorted out I'll happily gettextify the application and send you a file to translate. Thanks for the offer. May I come back to one point of a previous mail which was not yet answered here: I'd regard screenshots featuring shots of different languages an important feature - so not only the web application but also the screenshots themselves should be i18n. I admit this should not be high on the todo list - but keeping this in mind from the beginning in the app might avoid some hassle to add the feature afterwards. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Quoting Christoph Haas ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I intend to make the application i18n-savvy. But that's currently not the hightest priority on my todo list. As soon as the other issues are sorted out I'll happily gettextify the application and send you a file to translate. Thanks for the offer. s/send you a file/send a file to debian-i18n, of course..:-) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:05:32PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: it took a little longer than I expected but I finally launched http://screenshots.debian.net [...] Have fun and let me know what you think. Please do not reduce images in size. The screenshots of, for example, dillo and amiwm are horrible. If you have a guideline of having a maximum size of 800x600 pixels, just give an error when someone uploads a screenshot that is larger than that. A link to packages.debian.org for every package would also be nice. -- Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards, Guus Sliepen [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Montag, 10. November 2008, Guus Sliepen wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:05:32PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: it took a little longer than I expected but I finally launched http://screenshots.debian.net [...] Have fun and let me know what you think. Please do not reduce images in size. The screenshots of, for example, dillo and amiwm are horrible. If you have a guideline of having a maximum size of 800x600 pixels, just give an error when someone uploads a screenshot that is larger than that. In the guidelines I suggest not to upload screenshots larger than 800x600 if the uploader doesn't want automatic reduction. Too large images cannot be viewed properly (e.g. I wouldn't be able to enjoy a 1600x1280 image on my screen) by most users. So I thought that 800x600 is a good compromise. A link to packages.debian.org for every package would also be nice. Okay, will do. And I'll add proper URL routing so that packages.debian.org will be able to access screenshots directly, too. Christoph -- ~ ~ .signature [Modified] 1 line --100%--1,48 All signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 15:29 +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: On Montag, 10. November 2008, Guus Sliepen wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:05:32PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: it took a little longer than I expected but I finally launched http://screenshots.debian.net [...] Have fun and let me know what you think. Please do not reduce images in size. The screenshots of, for example, dillo and amiwm are horrible. If you have a guideline of having a maximum size of 800x600 pixels, just give an error when someone uploads a screenshot that is larger than that. In the guidelines I suggest not to upload screenshots larger than 800x600 if the uploader doesn't want automatic reduction. Too large images cannot be viewed properly (e.g. I wouldn't be able to enjoy a 1600x1280 image on my screen) by most users. So I thought that 800x600 is a good compromise. 800x600 would be a good compromise provided that the original is available. William signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:05:32PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: it took a little longer than I expected but I finally launched http://screenshots.debian.net First of all thanks a lot for the effort, the result is already really cool and in perspective it is amazingly useful! Have fun and let me know what you think. On the guidelines: - You state that screenshot will be released under the same term of the screenshot-ed package, why so? It seems to me rather arbitrary and makes impossible to bundle all screenshot together on a media and distribute them under a consistent license. Suggestion: just name a license and stick to it. Then an usability comment: the only link under each screenshot is request removal. IMO it is too tempting, because it is the large and because it is the only link. Suggestion: replace it with the classical X icon with a tooltip, and make it less important by adding some other link, e.g., the suggested link to packages.debian.org. Out of curiosity, do you already have an API for accessing screenshot data externally? I guess the packages.d.o are interested in that, and for sure I'm interested in that to add a TODO item in the PTS for missing screenshots (probably just for some class of packages, we'll see). Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 [EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è sempre /oo\ All one has to do is hit the right uno zaino-- A.Bergonzoni \__/ keys at the right time -- J.S.Bach signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - You state that screenshot will be released under the same term of the screenshot-ed package, why so? It seems to me rather arbitrary and makes impossible to bundle all screenshot together on a media and distribute them under a consistent license. Suggestion: just name a license and stick to it. screenshots are derivative works (according to SPI legal counsel): http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2008/08/msg00016.html -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:16:06PM +0100, Guus Sliepen wrote: Please do not reduce images in size. The screenshots of, for example, dillo and amiwm are horrible. If you have a guideline of having a maximum size of 800x600 pixels, just give an error when someone uploads a screenshot that is larger than that. Why impose such a barrier to entry for contributers? I think resizing images is a fantastic thing to provide. I do think the page lengths, or result count per page, could be increased. -- Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Montag, 10. November 2008, Paul Wise wrote: On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - You state that screenshot will be released under the same term of the screenshot-ed package, why so? It seems to me rather arbitrary and makes impossible to bundle all screenshot together on a media and distribute them under a consistent license. Suggestion: just name a license and stick to it. screenshots are derivative works (according to SPI legal counsel): http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2008/08/msg00016.html So are we safe as long as we don't include non-free packages and claim that the screenshots are licensed under the terms of the application itself? IANAL and find that gibberish from your quoted posting pretty hard to understand. (It's hard enough to understand legal texts in my native language.) Christoph -- ~ ~ .signature [Modified] 1 line --100%--1,48 All signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Montag, 10. November 2008, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:05:32PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: it took a little longer than I expected but I finally launched http://screenshots.debian.net First of all thanks a lot for the effort, the result is already really cool and in perspective it is amazingly useful! Thanks. I love positive feedback. Developers often tend to point out errors way more than enjoying what's already there. :) Great job! I am looking forward when this will be available from packages.debian.org. Ondrej -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Montag, 10. November 2008, Miriam Ruiz wrote: 2008/11/10 Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I can even offer JSON, SOAP, XML, whatever if needed. Some URL that can be used in an IMG/SRC tag should probably be sufficient for packages.d.o. I'll soon document the URL schema so everybody can use it. Just let me know what information you need and I'll try providing a proper API. I'm using fixed 324x240 thumbnails for goplay and its derivatives. It would be quite straightforward to make the program able to download thumbnails from there when they cannot be found locally, if we can do something about the size. Do you have a fixed size for thumbnails? The large images are no larger than 800x600 and the thumbnails are no larger than 160x120. I retain the aspect but shrink the images if they are larger than these limits. So if you want to upload a 320x240 image then the large image will be kept that way (as it's no larger than 800x600) and just a thumbnail is generated. So I store exactly two versions as files (to prevent having them resized on-the-fly). You could get the large version and shrink it yourself if that's sufficient. I don't have the original image available after reducing it to 800x600 any more. I'm open to suggestions though. Christoph signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
2008/11/10 Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So are we safe as long as we don't include non-free packages and claim that the screenshots are licensed under the terms of the application itself? Yes, in my opinion that should be enough. Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
2008/11/10 Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I can even offer JSON, SOAP, XML, whatever if needed. Some URL that can be used in an IMG/SRC tag should probably be sufficient for packages.d.o. I'll soon document the URL schema so everybody can use it. Just let me know what information you need and I'll try providing a proper API. I'm using fixed 324x240 thumbnails for goplay and its derivatives. It would be quite straightforward to make the program able to download thumbnails from there when they cannot be found locally, if we can do something about the size. Do you have a fixed size for thumbnails? Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
2008/11/10 Miriam Ruiz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/11/10 Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I can even offer JSON, SOAP, XML, whatever if needed. Some URL that can be used in an IMG/SRC tag should probably be sufficient for packages.d.o. I'll soon document the URL schema so everybody can use it. Just let me know what information you need and I'll try providing a proper API. I'm using fixed 324x240 thumbnails for goplay and its derivatives. It would be quite straightforward to make the program able to download thumbnails from there when they cannot be found locally, if we can do something about the size. Do you have a fixed size for thumbnails? s/324x240/320x240/ Sorry for the mistake. Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Montag, 10. November 2008, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:05:32PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: it took a little longer than I expected but I finally launched http://screenshots.debian.net First of all thanks a lot for the effort, the result is already really cool and in perspective it is amazingly useful! Thanks. I love positive feedback. Developers often tend to point out errors way more than enjoying what's already there. :) On the guidelines: - You state that screenshot will be released under the same term of the screenshot-ed package, why so? It seems to me rather arbitrary and makes impossible to bundle all screenshot together on a media and distribute them under a consistent license. Suggestion: just name a license and stick to it. If it's legally feasible I'd like to put all work under the MIT license and be done with it. I hope someone with a legal background can help a little here. Then an usability comment: the only link under each screenshot is request removal. IMO it is too tempting, because it is the large and because it is the only link. Suggestion: replace it with the classical X icon with a tooltip, and make it less important by adding some other link, e.g., the suggested link to packages.debian.org. I'll think of something. :) Although clicking on it comes up with a text entry field to the request isn't immediately filed. Previously I had an are you sure popup instead. Out of curiosity, do you already have an API for accessing screenshot data externally? I guess the packages.d.o are interested in that, and for sure I'm interested in that to add a TODO item in the PTS for missing screenshots (probably just for some class of packages, we'll see). Thanks to the framework used (Pylons) I can fully control which URL does what. I intend to provide a URL that can be used for packages.debian.org to display the screenshots. Possibly like: http://screenshots.d.n/package/foobar/firstscreenshot I can even offer JSON, SOAP, XML, whatever if needed. Some URL that can be used in an IMG/SRC tag should probably be sufficient for packages.d.o. I'll soon document the URL schema so everybody can use it. Just let me know what information you need and I'll try providing a proper API. Christoph signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Hi Christoph, many thanks for this effort - I admit I started dreaming of such a thing in the beginning of this year - it does not happen that often that dreams become true that fast. ;-) On Mon, 10 Nov 2008, Christoph Haas wrote: Thanks to the framework used (Pylons) I can fully control which URL does what. I intend to provide a URL that can be used for packages.debian.org to display the screenshots. Possibly like: http://screenshots.d.n/package/foobar/firstscreenshot I can even offer JSON, SOAP, XML, whatever if needed. Some URL that can be used in an IMG/SRC tag should probably be sufficient for packages.d.o. Yes, this is exactly what I would need. A python API would be really great. I would like somethin like def GetScreenshotsURLS( list_of_packages ): ... return dict_with_list_of_packages_as_keys The entry of the dict should be 'None' / '' or something like that if there is no screenshot available and if a screenshot is available a string which enables to address icon and screenshot (of latest program version in case several versions are available). In addition to this I would love to get some information about languages the screenshot is available - in case you would like to implement screenshots in different languages. I'll soon document the URL schema so everybody can use it. Just let me know what information you need and I'll try providing a proper API. I would like to add screenshots to the entries on the Debian Pure Blends tasks pages like http://debian-med.alioth.debian.org/tasks/imaging.html I would like to put a link to Upload screnshot for package foo here in case there is no screenshot and an icon which links to the real image in case there is one. If we would have even an i18n screenshot I would link to the apropriate language or alternatively to the English default (and add a link Upload screenshot for package foo in language bar). Thanks again for your effort Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 04:46:10PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: Thanks. I love positive feedback. Developers often tend to point out errors way more than enjoying what's already there. :) My pleasure :) Suggestion: just name a license and stick to it. Given the comment from pabs (which gave me a good WTF moment), I withdraw this request of mine. Then an usability comment: the only link under each screenshot is request removal. IMO it is too tempting, because it is the large and because it is the only link. Suggestion: replace it with the classical X icon with a tooltip, and make it less important by adding some other link, e.g., the suggested link to packages.debian.org. I'll think of something. :) Although clicking on it comes up with a text entry field to the request isn't immediately filed. Previously I had an are you sure popup instead. Note that I haven't said that users will request removals by mistake, I'm sure they will withdraw as soon as they see the popup (or whatever else). Still, if the link is too tempting, people will click on it, just loosing time, while they can be directed to more useful targets. Maybe I'm drifting too much on HCI here :) Thanks to the framework used (Pylons) I can fully control which URL does what. I intend to provide a URL that can be used for packages.debian.org to display the screenshots. Possibly like: http://screenshots.d.n/package/foobar/firstscreenshot OK, REST interface would be nice. I can even offer JSON, SOAP, XML, whatever if needed. Some URL that IMO the BTS has taught us that SOAP is the good way to go, on top of that we can have whatever programming language API we need. Additionally, the PTS needs kind of all at once listing, a place from which we can download at each PTS pulse a mapping package/screenshot(s), to avoid hammering screenshots.d.n with per-package requests. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 [EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è sempre /oo\ All one has to do is hit the right uno zaino-- A.Bergonzoni \__/ keys at the right time -- J.S.Bach signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:05:32PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: Have fun and let me know what you think. Thank you for this; it looks very nice! Some quick comments: * don't list packages with only pending screenshots in the list of screenshots. There's a few packages at the moment listed as 0 (1 waiting for approval) which just clutter the list, since there's nothing to see yet :) * There are 14 pages and the navigation is truncated to 'Page: 1 2 3 .. 14 '. Could you (optionally) display links to all pages? Or alter the number of results per page (increase, or make user configurable)? * an optional list of packages with screenshots which displayed the thumbnail would be nice. * It would be nice if the homepage column pointed at something more Debian specific, e.g. the packages page. I was going to suggest the PTS page, but of course that's developer-oriented and this is user-oriented. packages.debian.org/foo shows more useful info for existing Debian users, and includes the homepage from the control field where available. * what does the search field operate on? A search for 'games' shows up gridlock.app which contains 'games' in the short description, and is in category games. I'm not sure which it matched on. If only the short text, it would be nice to search on other criteria. -- Jon Dowland -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:02:24AM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: IMO the BTS has taught us that SOAP is the good way to go, on top of that we can have whatever programming language API we need. I'd agree that it's tought us the value of *an* API, but I (at least) have yet to love SOAP. Excerpt from debgtd: ... def reload_backend(self, bugs): model = self.model # fetch the details of all of these bugs # christ, someone point me at something which will make the # following clear. foo = self.server.get_status(bugs)[0] if 1 == len(bugs): # work around debbts unboxing feature hash = foo['value']._asdict() if hash['id'] in model.bugs: bug = model.bugs[hash['id']] model.update_bug(hash) ... I might just be being stupid, and one layer of boxing was conditional and is actually a design feature of BTS in particular, but I couldn't believe how many layers of dicts-inside-lists-inside-something-else there were for various queries. -- Jon Dowland -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Noah Slater wrote: [...] I do think the page lengths, or result count per page, could be increased. +1 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Montag, 10. November 2008, Jon Dowland wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 03:05:32PM +0100, Christoph Haas wrote: Have fun and let me know what you think. Thank you for this; it looks very nice! Some quick comments: * don't list packages with only pending screenshots in the list of screenshots. There's a few packages at the moment listed as 0 (1 waiting for approval) which just clutter the list, since there's nothing to see yet :) Good idea. Put on the todo list. * There are 14 pages and the navigation is truncated to 'Page: 1 2 3 .. 14 '. Could you (optionally) display links to all pages? Or alter the number of results per page (increase, or make user configurable)? I'll change the pager radius to 10. Will be fixed in the next deployment. * an optional list of packages with screenshots which displayed the thumbnail would be nice. You mean a list where each package shows the screenshots right in the list? That's a nice idea. Minimizes clicking and loading. Put on the todo list. * It would be nice if the homepage column pointed at something more Debian specific, e.g. the packages page. I was going to suggest the PTS page, but of course that's developer-oriented and this is user-oriented. packages.debian.org/foo shows more useful info for existing Debian users, and includes the homepage from the control field where available. The version I'll deploy tomorrow contains a link to packages.d.o/PACKAGENAME. I loved the idea to point directly to the homepage though because that's likely where users search for more information before installing software. * what does the search field operate on? A search for 'games' shows up gridlock.app which contains 'games' in the short description, and is in category games. I'm not sure which it matched on. If only the short text, it would be nice to search on other criteria. Currently it's a case-insensitive search over the package name and short description. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for your constructive feedback. I'm looking forward to the next version (which will even be faster because I'm moving to another VPS). Cheers Christoph -- A guess is just a guess until you turn it into a pie chart. Then it's an analysis. (Scott Adams) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
Christoph Haas wrote: Fellow developers... it took a little longer than I expected but I finally launched http://screenshots.debian.net Great! thanks for your great job after two weeks of programming fun. [...] Please take a look at the site, consider uploading screenshots of your favorite application and give some feedback. The approach is rather open. [...] Have fun and let me know what you think. * When browsing the packages list it would be great if you could also provide links to browse packages by name (e.g. A, B, C, etc, you get what I mean). * Have you considered storing more information together with the images? (the version of the package is what I believe is the most relevant missing information). * And what about letting the package uploaders upload the screenshots of their packages on their own without requiring any further moderation? all is needed is a maintainer-gpg key relationship and some sort of incoming queue where images are uploaded (packagename_version.ext) and then the output of md5sum foo_0.1.png bar_0.2.png | gpg --clearsign is uploaded (or sha1sum if you are paranoid). This has the following advantages: a) batch image uploads can be done, b) no interaction is required via the web interface, c) validating the incoming data is as simple as running gpg with the DDs and DMs --keyring, md5sum -c mybatchupload.asc, and then making sure the key owner has upload rights for those packages. Cheers Christoph Cheers, Raphael Geissert -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Raphael Geissert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * When browsing the packages list it would be great if you could also provide links to browse packages by name (e.g. A, B, C, etc, you get what I mean). * Have you considered storing more information together with the images? (the version of the package is what I believe is the most relevant missing information). Version info would be useful for providing a list of packages with outdated screenshots in any given dist (sid/etch). Also, I think multiple screenshots per package are needed so that the packages.d.o/sid/foo and packages.d.o/etch/foo pages can point to the right screenshots. s.d.n/outdated/sid/a s.d.n/outdated/etch/b Also need lists of packages without screenshots for a given dist: s.d.n/needed/sid/a s.d.n/needed/etch/b -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So are we safe as long as we don't include non-free packages and claim that the screenshots are licensed under the terms of the application itself? IANAL and find that gibberish from your quoted posting pretty hard to understand. (It's hard enough to understand legal texts in my native language.) In theory, yeah just main/contrib should be safe. There could be issues with say, emulator screenshots showing non-free games or Microsoft Office in wine, BeOS in qemu or a game in contrib with non-free graphics or a game in main with a mod from outside Debian or something. The other thing is that for the purposes of screenshots.d.n the fair use provisions in some jurisdictions might be enough, the PDF produced by SPI legal counsel discusses this. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: screenshots.debian.net goes beta
On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 00:20 +0900, Paul Wise wrote: On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - You state that screenshot will be released under the same term of the screenshot-ed package, why so? It seems to me rather arbitrary and makes impossible to bundle all screenshot together on a media and distribute them under a consistent license. Suggestion: just name a license and stick to it. screenshots are derivative works (according to SPI legal counsel): http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2008/08/msg00016.html And yet reviewers don't ask for permission to make screenshots, but seem to be comfortable with assuming that this is fair use. Ben. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
