Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 05:22:23PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 21:53 +0200, Tristan Seligmann wrote: After some discussion with the other upstream authors, the current plan of action is: The next release of Dosage will check both /etc/dosage/disabled, and ~/.dosage/disabled, and effectively disable any comics listed in either of the two locations. Sexy Losers will be included in the system-wide file by default, along with any other similarly offensive comics that are added in the future. Is this sufficient to deal with your concerns? Sounds pretty good to me... Agreed. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 06:46:03PM -0700, Joel Aelwyn wrote: On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 10:17:07PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2005-02-03 03:15:41, schrieb Sam Watkins: 1. People (including children) will get a nasty surprise when they choose to download all the comics to see what is available. My daughter had this problem several times... *looks innocent* Say, whatever happened to debian-junior? Isn't that the sub-project that was for exactly this sort of concern? -- Joel Aelwyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] ,''`. : :' : `. `' `- Hi Joel, there is also something being worked on called debtags. debian-junior is conglomerate of packages to install but does not address the desire to install stuff after 'debian-junior' is installed. This is where debtags might come in. Maybe dpkg could be made debtags aware. with an /etc/dpkg-debtags.conf with an option like 'DONTINSTALL=religious,adult,offensive' just a thought. -Kev Ps. besides debian-junior, I and others thought of debian-muslim, debian-christian,debian-german,debian-italian as other meta-packages to address similar ideas. -- counter.li.org #238656 -- goto counter.li.org and be counted! (__) (oo) /--\/ / ||| * /\---/\ ~~ ~~ Have you mooed today?... signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Don == Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don 2. Should Debian publish content I disagree with which is Don DFSG free? I am going to write a DFSG script that will download photos I have taken from my website, and display them at random on the users screen. There are no pornographic images and no nude images of humans. If nude photos of dogs, cars, cats, birds or aircraft are a problem for anyone, I can have them removed. There should no need for any controversy. Even better, I will just license the photos (currently 346Meg, but I could make that several gigabytes) under a DFSG compatible license, and include the whole set as a single Debian package in the next stable release of Debian (or sarge+1). Seriously, what has any of this got to do with Debian? I consider Debian an operating system, not a method of transferring art, whether digital images, digital video, writing, etc. I really think we need to draw the line somewhere. -- Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005, Brian May wrote: Don == Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don 2. Should Debian publish content I disagree with which is Don DFSG free? I really think we need to draw the line somewhere. We do draw the line somewhere currently: 1) Must be DFSG Free 2) Must have a maintainer willing to maintain it, and a Developer willing to upload it. ftp-masters (with occasional help of debian-legal) deal with determining if #1 is satisfied. Maintainers and Developers deal with determining if #2 is satisfied, ideally by applying some sort of common sense to their decision. The ITP anouncement on -devel helps to at least makes sure Developers are aware of the issues surrounding their package. If you're suggesting that we need to move where the line is drawn, then by all means, propose some reasonable metric which can be applied to all packages as an extension of these two (rather basic) rules. The appropriate forum for that is -project (or possibly -policy). Perhaps I'm naive, but I would hope that Developers are capable of exercising their judgement on #2 with enough veracity to be all the arbitration necessary. Don Armstrong -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 08:54:18AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: Oh, are we turning into a children's distribution now? I hope not. I think it's fairly obvious that we're a wanker's distribution, not a children's distribution. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 02:28:44AM +1100, Sam Watkins wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 08:54:18AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: Oh, are we turning into a children's distribution now? I hope not. I think it's fairly obvious that we're a wanker's distribution, not a children's distribution. Any chance that we can avoid statements like that, please. I agree that the distribution should not alter to 'protect children' at all costs, but we do *not* need the childish behaviour that has been displayed in this thread, it does nothing to improve the quality of the debian distribution and makes us look bad. What we *really* should be concentrating on is getting the next release (sarge) out of the door, and improving our release mechanism, not debating wether or not this that or the other is a parent issue or a distribution issue, the solutions that where put forward earlier seemed sensible and to the point. Thanks, -- Brett Parker -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 07:59:14AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: The average girl would rather have beauty than brains because she knows that the average man can see much better than he can think. Ladies' Home Journal Your sig quote seems strangely appropriate to this thread, Ron. I was trying to address two issues. Unfortunately few people seem to understand these points. They have probably been watching too much porn. 1. People (including children) will get a nasty surprise when they choose to download all the comics to see what is available. This is NOT a censorship issue, but a matter of appropriate packaging. The way it is, it's like having a XXX magazine hidden among the comic-books in a newsagent. A dosage-off package would solve this problem, as would a config-file that completely disables certain offensive comics, with reasons given. We could use similar standards to those used for fortunes-off. (e.g. racist comics would also be off) This issue has already been explored, please don't post about it any more. 2. Should Debian publish highly offensive content which is DFSG free? I say no. There are limits to what is acceptable in Debian. The anarchist FAQ is acceptable. The bible is acceptable. A package of hardcore pictures is obviously not acceptable, Supposing I were to assemble a collection of public-domain porn, would that be allowed to be included in Debian? Of course not. Apart from anything else, we wouldn't be able to distribute the CDs freely. I don't see hot-babe in sid yet, either. I seriously doubt that smutfest: 1001 porn downloader scripts would be approved for inclusion either. That probably wouldn't be legal to distribute to minors either. In that case, it couldn't go on the CDs. (If it did, it would be illegal to sell them from ordinary shops in many parts of the world, e.g. Australia.) I don't know where the law stands on this, but I think it is borderline, it would probably be illegal to distribute porn-downloader scripts to minors (over the counter) in many parts of the world, therefore it could not go on our CDs. The Sexy Losers script without a doubt falls in that category (it is a script for downloading hardcore porn). It should not be in Debian. This is also NOT an issue of censorship, nor is it a question of trying to protect children. Obviously any child or adult who wants porn can get it off the internet. The difficulty in modern society is for anyone who wants to avoid porn, one would have to walk around with eyes shut. It is an issue of Debian's public reputation, and of the law. Does Debian wish to be associated with pornography, to implicitly approve it, by including programs designed to download and view it, or including actual pornographic content? pornview, hot-babe and dailystrips / dosage's Sexy Losers scripts are apparently okay according to many Debian developers. I disagree. Another issue - if a script is designed specifically to download non-free content, shouldn't it go in contrib? According to Debian's official view that anything made of bits is software, the scripts to fetch the comics should go in contrib. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 03:33:53PM +, Brett Parker wrote: Any chance that we can avoid statements like that, please. sorry, I couldn't resist! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
* Sam Watkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: [snip] 2. Should Debian publish highly offensive content which is DFSG free? I say no. There are limits to what is acceptable in Debian. The anarchist FAQ is acceptable. The bible is acceptable. A package of hardcore pictures is obviously not acceptable, [snip] It is not at all obvious in fact. The bible and the anarchist FAQ have probably caused more direct damage to the world. Please don't project your morality on the project. -- Eric Dorland [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: #61138586, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1024D/16D970C6 097C 4861 9934 27A0 8E1C 2B0A 61E9 8ECF 16D9 70C6 -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GCS d- s++: a-- C+++ UL+++ P++ L++ E++ W++ N+ o K- w+ O? M++ V-- PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R tv++ b+++ DI+ D+ G e h! r- y+ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Sam Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is NOT a censorship issue, but a matter of appropriate packaging. The way it is, it's like having a XXX magazine hidden among the comic-books in a newsagent. No. It's like having a sexy adult comic book hidden among the rest of the comic books in a news agent. Which is, actually, not all that uncommon. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005, Sam Watkins wrote: On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 07:59:14AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: The average girl would rather have beauty than brains because she knows that the average man can see much better than he can think. Ladies' Home Journal Your sig quote seems strangely appropriate to this thread, Ron. Unfortunately few people seem to understand these points. They have probably been participating in too much religion. 1. People (including children) will get a nasty surprise when they choose to download all the packages to see what is available. [...] 2. Should Debian publish content I disagree with which is DFSG free? I say no. There are limits to what is acceptable in Debian. The anarchist FAQ is acceptable. pr0n is acceptable. The bible is obviously not acceptable, Supposing I were to assemble a collection of public-domain relgious materials, would that be allowed to be included in Debian? I hope not. Apart from anything else, we wouldn't be able to distribute the CDs freely. I don't see bhagavad vita in sid yet, either. I seriously doubt that belief: 1001 ways to subjugate your populace would be approved for inclusion either. That probably wouldn't be legal to distribute to thinking adults either. (If it did, it would be illegal to sell them from ordinary shops in many parts of the world, e.g. Iran.) [...] Firefox without a doubt falls in that category (it is a program for downloading religious materials). It should not be in Debian. This is also NOT an issue of censorship, nor is it a question of trying to protect children. Obviously any child or adult who wants religious materials can get them off the internet. The difficulty in modern society is for anyone who wants to avoid religion, one would have to walk around with eyes shut, ears closed, and expunge a good number of neurons. It is an issue of Debian's public reputation, and of the law. Does Debian wish to be associated with religion, to implicitly approve of it, by including programs designed to download and view it, or including actual religious content? Ah, ad hominem and unfounded assumptions, how I love thee! Don Armstrong -- It seems intuitively obvious to me, which means that it might be wrong -- Chris Torek http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Am 2005-02-03 03:15:41, schrieb Sam Watkins: 1. People (including children) will get a nasty surprise when they choose to download all the comics to see what is available. My daughter had this problem several times... 2. Should Debian publish highly offensive content which is DFSG free? I say no. There are limits to what is acceptable in Debian. The anarchist FAQ is acceptable. The bible is acceptable. A package of hardcore pictures is obviously not acceptable, A package downloading hardcore pictures from specific servers. (wget or something like this does not fit this category) I seriously doubt that smutfest: 1001 porn downloader scripts would be approved for inclusion either. That probably wouldn't be legal to distribute to minors either. In that case, it couldn't go on the CDs. (If it did, it would be illegal to sell them from ordinary shops in many parts of the world, e.g. Australia.) Not only in Australia, you will have the same problem in Germany and France and in the whole EU. I don't know where the law stands on this, but I think it is borderline, it would probably be illegal to distribute porn-downloader scripts to minors (over the counter) in many parts of the world, therefore it could not go on our CDs. Right. It is an issue of Debian's public reputation, and of the law. Does Debian wish to be associated with pornography, to implicitly approve it, by including programs designed to download and view it, or including actual pornographic content? pornview, hot-babe and dailystrips / dosage's Sexy Losers scripts are apparently okay according to many Debian developers. I disagree. Agreed Another issue - if a script is designed specifically to download non-free content, shouldn't it go in contrib? According to Debian's official view that anything made of bits is software, the scripts to fetch the comics should go in contrib. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. I think yes. Greetings Michelle -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Sam Watkins writes: Another issue - if a script is designed specifically to download non-free content, shouldn't it go in contrib? According to Debian's official view that anything made of bits is software, the scripts to fetch the comics should go in contrib. Only a miniscule fraction of Web pages are Free. I guess that puts Firefox in contrib. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sam Watkins writes: Another issue - if a script is designed specifically to download non-free content, shouldn't it go in contrib? According to Debian's official view that anything made of bits is software, the scripts to fetch the comics should go in contrib. Only a miniscule fraction of Web pages are Free. I guess that puts Firefox in contrib. miniscule fraction? I don't know how you know that. Regardless, it's irrelevant. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 03:15:41AM +1100, Sam Watkins wrote: Another issue - if a script is designed specifically to download non-free content, shouldn't it go in contrib? According to Debian's official view that anything made of bits is software, the scripts to fetch the comics should go in contrib. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. It doesn't matter if a piece of software works with non-free stuff, or even if most of its use, by design, is for non-free stuff. All that matters is that there exists some free stuff that it works with. For example, the vast majority of the stuff that runs in Wine is non-free--but not all, so Wine goes in main. The relative quantities aren't relevant. (It's not clear whether data beyond the scope of Debian--such as comics being downloaded--are relevant to this, either, but that's another debate.) -- Glenn Maynard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Glenn Maynard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It doesn't matter if a piece of software works with non-free stuff, or even if most of its use, by design, is for non-free stuff. All that matters is that there exists some free stuff that it works with. For example, the vast majority of the stuff that runs in Wine is non-free--but not all, so Wine goes in main. The relative quantities aren't relevant. Even then, the freeness of material outside Debian is generally ignored. We have multiple clients that only work with non-free servers. -- Matthew Garrett | [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 11:41:55PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote: It doesn't matter if a piece of software works with non-free stuff, or even if most of its use, by design, is for non-free stuff. All that matters is that there exists some free stuff that it works with. For example, the vast majority of the stuff that runs in Wine is non-free--but not all, so Wine goes in main. The relative quantities aren't relevant. Even then, the freeness of material outside Debian is generally ignored. We have multiple clients that only work with non-free servers. Err, that's what I meant: (It's not clear whether data beyond the scope of Debian--such as comics being downloaded--are relevant to this, either, but that's another debate.) -- Glenn Maynard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 10:17:07PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2005-02-03 03:15:41, schrieb Sam Watkins: 1. People (including children) will get a nasty surprise when they choose to download all the comics to see what is available. My daughter had this problem several times... *looks innocent* Say, whatever happened to debian-junior? Isn't that the sub-project that was for exactly this sort of concern? -- Joel Aelwyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] ,''`. : :' : `. `' `- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Parents are *supposed* to censor what their children see. They are also supposed to educate their children. Yes, but it's the job of *parents* to do that. If you want me to do it for you, you'll have to pay me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I thought like you until my kids grew to an age where supervising every waking minute of their lives is quite impossible. That's fine. If you want the rest of society to supervise your kids for you, then you'll have to pay us. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 09:32 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Parents are *supposed* to censor what their children see. They are also supposed to educate their children. Yes, but it's the job of *parents* to do that. If you want me to do it for you, you'll have to pay me. They refers to Parents. Note the their children part. How could you not see that? Your anger must be numbing your brain, because (unless you home- school your kids) of course parents *also* pay someone else to teach their children. What do you think K-12 and University are? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Why jobs are being out-sourced to 2nd 3rd world nations: Unions and Liberalism. Unions for a general raising of wages, and Liberalism for the creation of The Nanny State, which creates a *relatively* high minimum wage, and *lots* of well meaning regulations that drive up employment costs. Lastly, Unions, Liberalism and it's offspring the Me Generation have destroyed the educational system, at the same time that 2nd 3rd world nations are pumping out millions of highly educated people who can live like princes on a fraction of US or Western European wages. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 09:32 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Parents are *supposed* to censor what their children see. They are also supposed to educate their children. Yes, but it's the job of *parents* to do that. If you want me to do it for you, you'll have to pay me. They refers to Parents. Note the their children part. How could you not see that? I'm not angry. I'm in fact a huge advocate of public education, which is for the benefit of everyone. But if you send your kids to public school, you cede the authority to determine what they are taught. That's the trade-off. I support public education because it is for the benefit of everyone, but that's only true if your kids are taught well. So I wouldn't support a system in which, say, only parents got to vote for the school board, or in which parents can pull their kids out of biology class because they don't like evolution. I think that censoring your kids from seeing a comic strip is not beneficial to them, and is lazy parenting. But it's your choice, you can censor it if you wish. But it is not my job to go out of my way to do it for you or assist you in a choice that I think may be hurting your kid. Of course, the actual decision is up to the package maintainer. Why it's being talked about here is beyond me. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 10:25:47PM +0100, Wim De Smet wrote: I'm not really in favour for this proposal but would you at least read the rest off the thread. Splitting the packages off makes it easier for the person responsible for installing packages (i.e. the one with root) to decide what goes and what doesn't. Specifically in this case it allows the parent to install dosage for his kids, but without options to download more sensitive material. Does not make mach sense. As a parent, I would review the dosage-non-sensitive package to see if the maintainer passed some stuff that i consider ofenssive, and the dosage-parental-advisory to see if some stuff interests me or my children. So I go for the one single package which i can install and then enable/disable single strips from a config file. -- Jesus Climent info:www.pumuki.org Unix SysAdm|Linux User #66350|Debian Developer|2.6.10|Helsinki Finland GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429 7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69 I say you are Lord, and I should know. I've followed a few. --Arthur (Life of Brian) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 09:22:13AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: an advice for they: 1) make a script to mirror from http://www.dmoz.org/Kids_and_Teens/ 2) unplug their computer from the network 3) stop bothering the rest of open-minded people I'm saddened that a supposedly open-minded person like yourself would not want to give me freedom of choice here. More freedom of choice? You can choose to install it or not to install it. Once you install it, you examine it and decide what you want to be activated! BTW, if they are out of curiosity, they can wget ; ar x ; tar zxvf ; cd ; exec dosage-porn, which might be of more interest once they know it contains $FORBIDEN stuff. -- Jesus Climent info:www.pumuki.org Unix SysAdm|Linux User #66350|Debian Developer|2.6.10|Helsinki Finland GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429 7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69 You're just jealous because I'm a real freak and you have to wear a mask. --Penguin (Batman Returns) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 13:49 +0100, Jesus Climent wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 09:22:13AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: an advice for they: 1) make a script to mirror from http://www.dmoz.org/Kids_and_Teens/ 2) unplug their computer from the network 3) stop bothering the rest of open-minded people I'm saddened that a supposedly open-minded person like yourself would not want to give me freedom of choice here. More freedom of choice? You can choose to install it or not to install it. Once you install it, you examine it and decide what you want to be activated! That was the final consensus: an /etc/dosage config file BTW, if they are out of curiosity, they can wget ; ar x ; tar zxvf ; cd ; exec dosage-porn, which might be of more interest once they know it contains $FORBIDEN stuff. As I said in another post, there will come a time when they can do that. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The average girl would rather have beauty than brains because she knows that the average man can see much better than he can think. Ladies' Home Journal signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
El Sábado 29 Enero 2005 14:59, Ron Johnson escribió: As I said in another post, there will come a time when they can do that. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I don't want to feed the flame but.. I've tried dosage and it's not much easier to use. first you have to discover that the program is not dosage, since it's mainline. Then you can exec it and get no help, so you can do mainline --help, then mainline -l to see the comics available and ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ mainline -l | wc -l 332 How many of that are considered offensive? I think there are the same probabilities for a child getting porn comics with dosage (a console program) than getting dosage with wget,ar,... Anyway, I agree the final solution. -- Jorge Bernal Koke Personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://www.amedias.org/koke/ Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. - Edsger Dijkstra
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Jesus, On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 01:49:20PM +0100, Jesus Climent wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 09:22:13AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: an advice for they: 1) make a script to mirror from http://www.dmoz.org/Kids_and_Teens/ 2) unplug their computer from the network 3) stop bothering the rest of open-minded people I'm saddened that a supposedly open-minded person like yourself would not want to give me freedom of choice here. More freedom of choice? You can choose to install it or not to install it. Once you install it, you examine it and decide what you want to be activated! Remember that Ron is from the Deep South, where freedom of choice means you must provide me with an option that gives me the maximum benefit of your efforts without impinging my moral standards, otherwise you are violating my freedom of choice. Please don't feed the redn^W troll. -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 15:01 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: Jesus, On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 01:49:20PM +0100, Jesus Climent wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 09:22:13AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: an advice for they: 1) make a script to mirror from http://www.dmoz.org/Kids_and_Teens/ 2) unplug their computer from the network 3) stop bothering the rest of open-minded people I'm saddened that a supposedly open-minded person like yourself would not want to give me freedom of choice here. More freedom of choice? You can choose to install it or not to install it. Once you install it, you examine it and decide what you want to be activated! Remember that Ron is from the Deep South, where freedom of choice means you must provide me with an option that gives me the maximum benefit of your efforts without impinging my moral standards, otherwise you are violating my freedom of choice. Please don't feed the redn^W troll. Please don't feed the self-righteous know-it-all. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. It is bad to be oppressed by a minority, but it is worse to be oppressed by a majority. Lord Acton, 1907 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Following fortune's model, this is what I'm thinking: dosage dosage-comics dosage-comics-off See there's no censorship here... No, just st^W. What do you gain as a parent? Instead of having to look at one package (dosage) and deciding No, not that, you have to check at least two of them (dosage and dosage-comics). You know, the maintai- ner might have a put something into -comics that he didn't think anybo- dy would find offensive, but you do. By the way, what would be the difference between dosage and dosage-comics? Can the package also download different stuff than comic strips? Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01/25/2005 09:46 PM, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: And yes, I've already thought of that. However, I'd rather some things (URLs, in this case) not be dropped my children's laps, even though they could be blocked further upstream. When they start to get curious about such things, let 'em learn about porn the old fashioned way... ;) Try it out and get pregnant? well, what about good old fashioned sex education. Oh wait no, deny the problem is not there is so much better, it solves all the problems. Sure, let them die stupid and pregnant with 15. - -- [ Clemens Schwaighofer -=:~ ] [ TBWA\ TEQUILA\ Japan IT Group ] [6-17-2 Ginza Chuo-ku, Tokyo 104-0061, JAPAN ] [ Tel: +81-(0)3-3545-7703Fax: +81-(0)3-3545-7343 ] [ http://www.tequila.co.jphttp://www.tbwajapan.co.jp ] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFB92NbjBz/yQjBxz8RAisJAJ40A6hD/gOBboTfmsR51gGVaLF/1QCfR//Z JAtOtTqzpbXWMf6f+KeaYDE= =t6Ku -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
* Tristan Seligmann | Where do you draw the line, though? Easy, maintainer's perogative, as usual. -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 09:52:13 +0100, Frank Kster wrote: By the way, what would be the difference between dosage and dosage-comics? Can the package also download different stuff than comic strips? Presumably 'dosage' would contain everything except the actual modules that download the various webcomics, while 'dosage-comics' would just contain the comic modules. I have no intention of splitting the package up like that, however. -- mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 10:32:13PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 03:38 +0100, Uwe A. P. Wuerdinger wrote: Ron Johnson schrieb: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: [-snip-] And yes, I've already thought of that. However, I'd rather some things (URLs, in this case) not be dropped my children's laps, even though they could be blocked further upstream. When they start to get curious about such things, let 'em learn about porn the old fashioned way... ;) Looks like an other round of underestimating children and censorship is coming up. Parents are *supposed* to censor what their children see. Says who (well, except you)? They are also supposed to educate their children. Can't disagree with this one though. But there's always the saying: Do as I say, not as I do. And it's always a mistake... [snip] Regards: David Weinehall -- /) David Weinehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] /) Northern lights wander (\ // Maintainer of the v2.0 kernel // Dance across the winter sky // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Full colour fire (/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 22:31 +0100, David Weinehall wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 10:32:13PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 03:38 +0100, Uwe A. P. Wuerdinger wrote: Ron Johnson schrieb: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: [-snip-] [snip] Parents are *supposed* to censor what their children see. Says who (well, except you)? *Your* parents. And, to take an extreme example, the parents of every 5 yo who won't let him go see some hyper-violent R-rated(*) movie. (*) In the USA, an R (Restricted) movie says that children under age 17 are not allowed in without an adult. They are also supposed to educate their children. Can't disagree with this one though. But there's always the saying: Do as I say, not as I do. And it's always a mistake... Bull. Happens all the time. Quick example: I cross the street by myself all the time. My children, however, can't. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. GGLX : Gnome GNU Linux X.Org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian? [was: Re: RFS: dosage -- powerful webcomic downloader / archiver]
On Tuesday 25 January 2005 04:51, Sam Watkins wrote: Dosage / mainline has a feature to download all supported comics, so it is quite possible for someone (perhaps a child) to stumble across this one by accident, as I did. Probably nearly everyone who tries dosage will want to see the range of comics available. While I am aware that this is another quality, I just want to point out, that fortunes has mitigated this risk by splitting off the offensive fortunes into a sperate package. Regards, David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian? [was: Re: RFS: dosage -- powerful webcomic downloader / archiver]
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 10:14:57AM +0100, David Schmitt wrote: On Tuesday 25 January 2005 04:51, Sam Watkins wrote: Dosage / mainline has a feature to download all supported comics, so it is quite possible for someone (perhaps a child) to stumble across this one by accident, as I did. Probably nearly everyone who tries dosage will want to see the range of comics available. While I am aware that this is another quality, I just want to point out, that fortunes has mitigated this risk by splitting off the offensive fortunes into a sperate package. Uh, no. It has split off those fortunes that could hypothetically offense even a minority of small-minded people into a separate package, including quite a number of false positives, IMO. But perhaps that's just me. -- EARTH smog | bricks AIR -- mud -- FIRE soda water | tequila WATER -- with thanks to fortune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
David Schmitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tuesday 25 January 2005 04:51, Sam Watkins wrote: Dosage / mainline has a feature to download all supported comics, so it is quite possible for someone (perhaps a child) to stumble across this one by accident, as I did. Probably nearly everyone who tries dosage will want to see the range of comics available. While I am aware that this is another quality, I just want to point out, that fortunes has mitigated this risk by splitting off the offensive fortunes into a sperate package. Good idea. dosage went even a step further: It doesn't include any of those comics at all. So where's the problem? Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:04 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: David Schmitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tuesday 25 January 2005 04:51, Sam Watkins wrote: Dosage / mainline has a feature to download all supported comics, so it is quite possible for someone (perhaps a child) to stumble across this one by accident, as I did. Probably nearly everyone who tries dosage will want to see the range of comics available. While I am aware that this is another quality, I just want to point out, that fortunes has mitigated this risk by splitting off the offensive fortunes into a sperate package. Good idea. dosage went even a step further: It doesn't include any of those comics at all. http://slipgate.za.net/dosage/downloads/changelog So where's the problem? The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. No matter how hard women work, train, excersize (and some of the woment in the Olympics were *muscular*), lose body fat, or get Title IX money, (the population of athletic) women will *never* be faster, stronger or better at sports(*) than (the population of athletic) men. (*Excluding small sports like darts.) It's just how men and women have evolved. Deal with it. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
ti, 2005-01-25 kello 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa kirjoitti: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. These parents are free to install whatever traffic blocker they feel appropriate. Debian doesn't seem to contain one, though. Such a traffic blocker would, hopefully, be rather more useful for limiting access to the Internet than removing URLs from packages one by one. I don't know how if there is any free software for this purpose, however, since keeping an up-to-date database of safe/unsafe sites is a lot of work and it might need to be done commercially. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:04 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: David Schmitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tuesday 25 January 2005 04:51, Sam Watkins wrote: Dosage / mainline has a feature to download all supported comics, so it is quite possible for someone (perhaps a child) to stumble across this one by accident, as I did. Probably nearly everyone who tries dosage will want to see the range of comics available. While I am aware that this is another quality, I just want to point out, that fortunes has mitigated this risk by splitting off the offensive fortunes into a sperate package. Good idea. dosage went even a step further: It doesn't include any of those comics at all. http://slipgate.za.net/dosage/downloads/changelog I stand corrected. But in this case, the short description dosage -- powerful webcomic downloader / archiver isn't really appropriate. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. These parents are free to install whatever traffic blocker they feel appropriate. Debian doesn't seem to contain one, though. Squid? And yes, I've already thought of that. However, I'd rather some things (URLs, in this case) not be dropped my children's laps, even though they could be blocked further upstream. When they start to get curious about such things, let 'em learn about porn the old fashioned way... ;) -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. What other evidence do you have that they are terrorists, other than that they trained in these camps? 17-Sep-2002 Katie Couric to an FBI agent regarding the 5 men arrested near Buffalo NY signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
* Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. These parents shouldn't give their children root access to the computers in the family. If they do give them root access, there's no way to prevent them from downloading such things, anyway (except perhaps some mandatory filtering proxy). If they want their children to be able to learn how to take care of a Debian box, they should talk with them about it. Also about problematice packages (like dosage, as some might think, or exim, if they care more about open mail relays than stupid comics). Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Jan 25, 2005 at 11:03, Frank Küster praised the llamas by saying: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: http://slipgate.za.net/dosage/downloads/changelog I stand corrected. But in this case, the short description dosage -- powerful webcomic downloader / archiver isn't really appropriate. It appears that this is what the program does, so why is it an inaccurate description? -- David Pashley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. What does having root access have to do with this? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Americans hate foreign policy because Americans hate foreigners, because they *are* foreigners, and came to this country to get away from the bad things. P.J. O'rourke, 2004-06-25, Fox News Channel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. I thought like you until my kids grew to an age where supervising every waking minute of their lives is quite impossible. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The graduate with a Science degree asks, Why does it work? The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, How does it work? The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, How much will it cost? The graduate with a Liberal Arts degree asks, Do you want fries with that? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 05:57 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. What does having root access have to do with this? oops, wrong post. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout. A MODEST PROPOSAL FOR PREVENTING THE CHILDREN OF POOR PEOPLE IN IRELAND FROM BEING A BURDEN TO THEIR PARENTS OR COUNTRY signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:09 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. These parents shouldn't give their children root access to the computers in the family. If they do give them root access, there's no way to prevent them from downloading such things, anyway (except perhaps some mandatory filtering proxy). What does giving them root access have to do with this? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. He that would live in peace and at ease must not speak all he knows or all he sees. Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
David Pashley [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Jan 25, 2005 at 11:03, Frank Küster praised the llamas by saying: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: http://slipgate.za.net/dosage/downloads/changelog I stand corrected. But in this case, the short description dosage -- powerful webcomic downloader / archiver isn't really appropriate. It appears that this is what the program does, so why is it an inaccurate description? The changelog Ron posted says , | * Added comics: | - MadamAndEve (contributed by Anthony Caetano) | ... ` either this means that the comics are in fact _included_ in the dosage package. Or Ron was talking nonsense - he wrote: , | On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:04 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: | | Good idea. dosage went even a step further: It doesn't include any of | those comics at all. | | http://slipgate.za.net/dosage/downloads/changelog ` So either you are wrong, and dosage does include comics. Or Ron owes me an explanation. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 13:06 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: The changelog Ron posted says , | * Added comics: | - MadamAndEve (contributed by Anthony Caetano) | ... ` either this means that the comics are in fact _included_ in the dosage package. Or Ron was talking nonsense - he wrote: I would have thought the obvious answer was that the ChangeLog refers to adding support for the given comic, not the actual comic itself (that would be a huge amount of data for the number of support comics!) Ian. -- Ian Campbell Current Noise: Kreator - Dying Race Apocalypse Recent investments will yield a slight profit.
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. These parents are free to install whatever traffic blocker they feel appropriate. Debian doesn't seem to contain one, though. Squid? And yes, I've already thought of that. However, I'd rather some things (URLs, in this case) not be dropped my children's laps, even though they could be blocked further upstream. When they start to get curious about such things, let 'em learn about porn the old fashioned way... ;) Try it out and get pregnant? MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Op di, 25-01-2005 te 04:30 -0600, schreef Ron Johnson: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:04 +0100, Frank Kster wrote: Good idea. dosage went even a step further: It doesn't include any of those comics at all. http://slipgate.za.net/dosage/downloads/changelog So where's the problem? The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. Oh, are we turning into a children's distribution now? They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. Are you one of them? If not, please stop theorizing about hypothetical users that might not even exist. -- EARTH smog | bricks AIR -- mud -- FIRE soda water | tequila WATER -- with thanks to fortune
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
* Ron Johnson | On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: | * Ron Johnson | | | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | | consider appropriate. | | Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying | on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read | something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. | | I thought like you until my kids grew to an age where supervising | every waking minute of their lives is quite impossible. Then perhaps they should get to see porn if they want to? Or filter URLs in your gateway or whatever -- I really don't see why Debian should suddenly become a distribution where all the sharp hooks you can cut yourself on are removed. -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Op di, 25-01-2005 te 06:00 -0600, schreef Ron Johnson: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. I thought like you until my kids grew to an age where supervising every waking minute of their lives is quite impossible. So you want Debian to supervise your kids every waking minute of their lives instead? Yes, it is indeed possible to supervise them every waking minute of their lives. You should thus focus your efforts on making them understand why $ACTION is wrong, instead of trying to prevent them from doing $ACTION. To minors, the forbidden act is tempting; the wrong act is not. -- EARTH smog | bricks AIR -- mud -- FIRE soda water | tequila WATER -- with thanks to fortune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ian Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 13:06 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: The changelog Ron posted says , | * Added comics: |- MadamAndEve (contributed by Anthony Caetano) | ... ` either this means that the comics are in fact _included_ in the dosage package. Or Ron was talking nonsense - he wrote: I would have thought the obvious answer was that the ChangeLog refers to adding support for the given comic, not the actual comic itself If that answer was obvious, than posting the link as a response to my claim it doesn't include any was, at least, misleading. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:04 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Ian Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 13:06 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: The changelog Ron posted says , | * Added comics: | - MadamAndEve (contributed by Anthony Caetano) | ... ` either this means that the comics are in fact _included_ in the dosage package. Or Ron was talking nonsense - he wrote: I would have thought the obvious answer was that the ChangeLog refers to adding support for the given comic, not the actual comic itself If that answer was obvious, than posting the link as a response to my claim it doesn't include any was, at least, misleading. You're correct, I had who was claiming what all mixed up, sorry! Ian. -- Ian Campbell Current Noise: Metallica - Trapped Under Ice Are you having fun yet?
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tuesday, 25 de January de 2005 13:00, Ron Johnson wrote: I thought like you until my kids grew to an age where supervising every waking minute of their lives is quite impossible. What age? 25 years old? -- Isaac Clerencia[EMAIL PROTECTED] Warp Networks http://www.warp.es Mara de Luna 11, 50018 Zaragoza, Spain pgphL9HQ6WIMI.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 04:30:08AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: So where's the problem? The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. As a future parent and atheist I conside offensive and inappropiate the following material: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache search bible | wc -l 16 Please, kindly remove them from the archive. /mode type=irony Dude, get a grip. -- Jesus Climent info:www.pumuki.org Unix SysAdm|Linux User #66350|Debian Developer|2.6.10|Helsinki Finland GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429 7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69 Bates Motel... 12 rooms, 12 vacancies. --Norman Bates (Psycho) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:09 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. These parents shouldn't give their children root access to the computers in the family. If they do give them root access, there's no way to prevent them from downloading such things, anyway (except perhaps some mandatory filtering proxy). What does giving them root access have to do with this? If somebody has root access to a computer that is connected to the internet, she or he can download and install anything that this computer can download. For example, she can install dosage from the upstream sources, or just download the comics manually. If the computer has access only via a restrictive filtering proxy, this is prevented. But then you can as well let them install dosage. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 12:34:38PM +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. These parents are free to install whatever traffic blocker they feel appropriate. Debian doesn't seem to contain one, though. And the kids might feel free to use whatever tunneling system up to a proxy machine to bypass the rules impossed by the parents. Up until a certain age the parents should be responsible for keeping control on the machine itself, the software it has installed and the programs they can use/install, including the ports and domains they have access to. After that age, they can probably use dosage at full power. Heck, as someone said: they have the discovery channel, don't they?. At no time Debian should be censoring any content for innapropiate. Every single bit of information has an audience which might feel offended by it. -- Jesus Climent info:www.pumuki.org Unix SysAdm|Linux User #66350|Debian Developer|2.6.10|Helsinki Finland GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429 7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69 Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken. --Tyles Durden (Fight club) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. I thought like you until my kids grew to an age where supervising every waking minute of their lives is quite impossible. It seems to me you (or the people you advocate for) don't have a problem with bad content in some media, but with education. The world isn't nice, and one of the goals of education is to make the children grow to be strong human beings, who can stand the weirdness of the world, and who can, the older the more, judge what is good for them. You won't be able to judge for them when they are 40, will you? The sentence you wrote should probably be written differently: I thought like you until I learned that it was impossible to supervise every waking minute And I would add: It is not only impossible, it is highly undesirable to supervise them every waking minute. From day one[1]. From this point of view, it doesn't make any sense to talk about exclusion of material from Debian because parents might not like it for their children. There may be other reasons, but this isn't one. Regards, Frank [1] assuming a healthy birth. If the child needs to be in an incubator at first, day one in this sense is something later. -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 13:46 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. These parents are free to install whatever traffic blocker they feel appropriate. Debian doesn't seem to contain one, though. Squid? And yes, I've already thought of that. However, I'd rather some things (URLs, in this case) not be dropped my children's laps, even though they could be blocked further upstream. When they start to get curious about such things, let 'em learn about porn the old fashioned way... ;) Try it out and get pregnant? I started looking at porn 30 years ago, and haven't gotten pregnant yet. Amazingly, porn != coitus. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The peace dividend is peace. Dan Quayle signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:55 +0100, Jesus Climent wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 12:34:38PM +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] Up until a certain age the parents should be responsible for keeping control on the machine itself, the software it has installed and the programs they can use/install, including the ports and domains they have access to. [snip] At no time Debian should be censoring any content for innapropiate. Every single bit of information has an audience which might feel offended by it. So help us parents keep control by splitting possibly inappropriate material into separate packages. Like fortune does. Then all the bits are there, and parents have a modicum of control. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. He was about as useful in a crisis as a sheep. Dorothy Eden signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
El Martes 25 Enero 2005 11:30, Ron Johnson escribió: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. an advice for they: 1) make a script to mirror from http://www.dmoz.org/Kids_and_Teens/ 2) unplug their computer from the network 3) stop bothering the rest of open-minded people another thing: Given A,B where A=parent(B) if ((A have not installed dosage) (B hasn't root access)) B can't access dosage just another more thing: Maybe I should say I agree to not include it in debian, in order to enhace kids creativity (sic). If you provide them a porn-downloader script, they may become just plain porn consumers. However, if they have to download porn by hand, someday they'll program an script, and we'll see another flame here :P PD: a parent can't pretend Debian to watch their kids. If they have to get something they'll just get it with or without the Debian help. A little proof: $ cat ~/bin/pget | grep -v ^# | egrep -v ^$ | wc -l 44 And it just depends on sh, sed and wget, should we remove those...? Cheers, Koke -- Jorge Bernal Koke Personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://www.amedias.org/koke/ Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. - Edsger Dijkstra
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:04 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: | * Ron Johnson [snip] Then perhaps they should get to see porn if they want to? Or filter URLs in your gateway or whatever -- I really don't see why Debian should suddenly become a distribution where all the sharp hooks you can cut yourself on are removed. This sounds a bit like the gun control debate. I don't want the sharp hooks removed. I want them put in boxes (i.e. packages) where they can be easily installed by root, but aren't just laying around (i.e., in dosage, along with the nice round scissors that are suitable for children). Am I making any sense to you? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. All of the reporting about Laci Peterson Michael Jackson reminds me of the Don Henley song Dirty Laundry: Can we do the operation? Is the head dead yet? You know, the boys in the newsroom got a running bet. Get the widow on the set, we need dirty laundry. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:05 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: Op di, 25-01-2005 te 06:00 -0600, schreef Ron Johnson: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:15 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. I thought like you until my kids grew to an age where supervising every waking minute of their lives is quite impossible. So you want Debian to supervise your kids every waking minute of their lives instead? Did I say that? No. Making it easier for me to give them age-appropriate comics (by having fortune-like multiple packages) isn't too much, is it? Yes, it is indeed possible to supervise them every waking minute of their lives. You should thus focus your efforts on making them understand why $ACTION is wrong, instead of trying to prevent them from doing $ACTION. To minors, the forbidden act is tempting; the wrong act is not. But if MadamAndEve is not on the list of supported comics that I've installed for dosage, then there's no need to explain. Parenting is already busy enough trying to help them understand why any number of $ACTIONs are wrong, why would I want to add any more? NOTE that I thing that packaging dosage is a *good* idea! It would be better, though, if the the supported-cartoon list could be broken up into multiple packages. That's all I'm saying. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The chief excitement in a woman's life is spotting women who are fatter than she is. Helen Rowland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 13:59 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: Op di, 25-01-2005 te 04:30 -0600, schreef Ron Johnson: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:04 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Good idea. dosage went even a step further: It doesn't include any of those comics at all. http://slipgate.za.net/dosage/downloads/changelog So where's the problem? The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. Oh, are we turning into a children's distribution now? I hope not. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. Are you one of them? If not, please stop theorizing about hypothetical users that might not even exist. Yes. And I want $YOU to be able to install dosage with support for all the comics, and $ME to be able to install dosage with only a limited number of comics. $YOU get what $YOU want, and $ME gets what $ME wants. Debian -- The Universal Operating System -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The difference between drunken sailors and Congressmen is that drunken sailors spend their own money. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:48 +0100, Jesus Climent wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 04:30:08AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: So where's the problem? The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. As a future parent and atheist I conside offensive and inappropiate the following material: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache search bible | wc -l 16 Please, kindly remove them from the archive. /mode type=irony Dude, get a grip. You have the option to *not* install them on your machine. John Ashcroft is not holding a gun to your head making you install it. I want to have more options than just to do or do not install dosage. What's wrong with that? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Oh, great altar of passive entertainment, bestow upon me thy discordant images at such speed as to render linear thought impossible Calvin, regarding TV signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tuesday 25 Jan 2005 14:59, Ron Johnson wrote: You have the option to *not* install them on your machine. John Ashcroft is not holding a gun to your head making you install it. I want to have more options than just to do or do not install dosage. What's wrong with that? 1. File a wishlist big against dosage if one does not already exist. 2. Get on with your life. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 15:25 +0100, Jorge Bernal wrote: El Martes 25 Enero 2005 11:30, Ron Johnson escribió: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. an advice for they: 1) make a script to mirror from http://www.dmoz.org/Kids_and_Teens/ 2) unplug their computer from the network 3) stop bothering the rest of open-minded people I'm saddened that a supposedly open-minded person like yourself would not want to give me freedom of choice here. another thing: Given A,B where A=parent(B) if ((A have not installed dosage) (B hasn't root access)) B can't access dosage just another more thing: Maybe I should say I agree to not include it in debian, in order to enhace kids creativity (sic). If you provide them a porn-downloader script, they may become just plain porn consumers. However, if they have to download porn by hand, someday they'll program an script, and we'll see another flame here :P PD: a parent can't pretend Debian to watch their kids. If they have to get something they'll just get it with or without the Debian help. A little proof: $ cat ~/bin/pget | grep -v ^# | egrep -v ^$ | wc -l 44 And it just depends on sh, sed and wget, should we remove those...? When he gets old enough to start writing scripts to auto-d/l porn, well... that will call for a different set of parenting skills. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The only thing that changed on 9/11 is that the dynamite that got stuck up our ass blew our heads out of the sand. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 15:02 +, Will Newton wrote: On Tuesday 25 Jan 2005 14:59, Ron Johnson wrote: You have the option to *not* install them on your machine. John Ashcroft is not holding a gun to your head making you install it. I want to have more options than just to do or do not install dosage. What's wrong with that? 1. File a wishlist big against dosage if one does not already exist. It isn't in the system, yet. 2. Get on with your life. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. The enemy thinks and plans and strategizes, too. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
El Martes 25 Enero 2005 15:42, Ron Johnson escribió: But if MadamAndEve is not on the list of supported comics that I've installed for dosage, then there's no need to explain. Parenting is already busy enough trying to help them understand why any number of $ACTIONs are wrong, why would I want to add any more? what about adding en /etc/dosagerc with a forbidden_strips=... ? NOTE that I thing that packaging dosage is a *good* idea! It would be better, though, if the the supported-cartoon list could be broken up into multiple packages. That's all I'm saying. -- Jorge Bernal Koke Personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://www.amedias.org/koke/ Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. - Edsger Dijkstra
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 16:44 +0100, Jorge Bernal wrote: El Martes 25 Enero 2005 15:42, Ron Johnson escribió: But if MadamAndEve is not on the list of supported comics that I've installed for dosage, then there's no need to explain. Parenting is already busy enough trying to help them understand why any number of $ACTIONs are wrong, why would I want to add any more? what about adding en /etc/dosagerc with a forbidden_strips=... ? Whatever way the maintainer thinks is best. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. 4 degrees from Vladimir Putin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Scripsit Sam Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is a difference between a general tool (web-browser) and a specific tool (the Sexy Losers script). The script is specifically designed to download a hard-core pornographic comic. FWIW, Sexy Losers is not hard-core pornographic. It does contain drawings of genitals and various sexual acts, and more often than not relies on taboo breaking for its points, but at the end of the day what it attempts to provoke in the reader is not sexual arousal but humorous amusement. This should be obvious to anyone who cares to sit down and actually read a couple dozen strips. Therefore it cannot reasonably be described as porn, although one would probably be justified in calling it offensive due to the general taboo breaking. -- Henning Makholm Det er du nok fandens ene om at mene. For det ligger i Australien! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds a bit like the gun control debate. I don't want the sharp hooks removed. I want them put in boxes (i.e. packages) where they can be easily installed by root, but aren't just laying around (i.e., in dosage, along with the nice round scissors that are suitable for children). Am I making any sense to you? No, not at all. What's the difference between dosage, being installable only by root, and dosage-boring plus dosage-offensive, being installable only by root? If you care so much about your childrens' computer usage, for sure you won't install any software without proper checking that it is okay on the family computer? Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 17:35 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds a bit like the gun control debate. I don't want the sharp hooks removed. I want them put in boxes (i.e. packages) where they can be easily installed by root, but aren't just laying around (i.e., in dosage, along with the nice round scissors that are suitable for children). Am I making any sense to you? No, not at all. What's the difference between dosage, being installable only by root, and dosage-boring plus dosage-offensive, being installable only by root? If you care so much about your childrens' computer usage, for sure you won't install any software without proper checking that it is okay on the family computer? We're both saying the same thing. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. Welfare Democracies will only work, in the long term, if the recipients of the wealth given to them by the earners use that wealth to become earners themselves. Unfortunately, only a small % of recipients seem to be availing themselves of the opportunity. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 03:02:31PM +, Will Newton wrote: 1. File a wishlist big against dosage if one does not already exist. 1a. Submit a patch so that you can be certain you get what you want. 2. Get on with your life. - David Nusinow -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 17:35 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds a bit like the gun control debate. I don't want the sharp hooks removed. I want them put in boxes (i.e. packages) where they can be easily installed by root, but aren't just laying around (i.e., in dosage, along with the nice round scissors that are suitable for children). Am I making any sense to you? No, not at all. What's the difference between dosage, being installable only by root, and dosage-boring plus dosage-offensive, being installable only by root? If you care so much about your childrens' computer usage, for sure you won't install any software without proper checking that it is okay on the family computer? We're both saying the same thing. I am saying that there is no reason why dosage should not be included in Debian, or why it would need to be split, because splitting wouldn't change anything. If you are also against splitting off some dosage-offensive or the like, I really don't know what this discussion is all about. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich Debian Developer
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:55:19 +0100, Jesus Climent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At no time Debian should be censoring any content for innapropiate. Every single bit of information has an audience which might feel offended by it. I'm mostly just a lurker on debian-devel, but as someone who is very interested in seeing Debian succeed, I feel obligated to speak out here. This thread isn't the first that has erupted as of late regarding objectionable content (hot-babe being the other example that comes to mind). Each time it seems there has been a vocal group opposed to the inclusion of such software within Debian. I agree whole-heartedly with Jesus here. In no way should Debian try to step in and filter or condemn content. Our goal is to support free software, not to enforce our beliefs or judgements about suitability of content upon others. If the software in question is free according to the DFSG, it should be allowed into Debian, without question. I could see a case being made for ensuring that package descriptions are suitable. For instance, if this package's primary purpose is to download pornographic comics, it should state such clearly within the package description. I haven't checked out this package very closely, so it could just be that dosage can download all manner of comics from the internet, some of which happen to be pornographic. If that is the case, then a possible disclaimer in the long package description could be appropriate. Something along the lines of: Some of the comics supported by dosage contain content which may be found objectionable or unsuitable for children. But in no way should we block such packages from being included within Debian. Anthony W. Juckel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 07:13:30PM +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 17:35 +0100, Frank Küster wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds a bit like the gun control debate. I don't want the sharp hooks removed. I want them put in boxes (i.e. packages) where they can be easily installed by root, but aren't just laying around (i.e., in dosage, along with the nice round scissors that are suitable for children). Am I making any sense to you? No, not at all. What's the difference between dosage, being installable only by root, and dosage-boring plus dosage-offensive, being installable only by root? If you care so much about your childrens' computer usage, for sure you won't install any software without proper checking that it is okay on the family computer? We're both saying the same thing. I am saying that there is no reason why dosage should not be included in Debian, or why it would need to be split, because splitting wouldn't change anything. The OP wants the offensive parts split off in a separate package. He doesn't want dosage removed from the archive. And splitting does indeed change something. If his kids are not root they cannot install the offensive part. They might find some way around the restrictions (eg. download them directly thru a proxy or something) but this will raise the bar somewhat. I do not understand why you keep stating things all through this thread that seem to deliberately ignore exactly what the OP is asking. greets, Wim -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 15:25:14 +0100, Jorge Bernal wrote: another thing: Given A,B where A=parent(B) if ((A have not installed dosage) (B hasn't root access)) B can't access dosage Unless you're already restricting internet access, B can just download it and install/run it from their home directory, so your assertion doesn't really hold. -- mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 20:15:29 +0100, Wim De Smet wrote: The OP wants the offensive parts split off in a separate package. He doesn't want dosage removed from the archive. And splitting does indeed change something. If his kids are not root they cannot install the offensive part. They might find some way around the restrictions (eg. download them directly thru a proxy or something) but this will raise Firing up a normal web browser to view Sexy Losers with is not much harder than using Dosage to download it. This doesn't take away from the idea of having a separate package, of course. -- mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 01:00:19PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: ti, 2005-01-25 kello 12:34 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa kirjoitti: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. These parents are free to install whatever traffic blocker they feel appropriate. Debian doesn't seem to contain one, though. Such a traffic blocker would, hopefully, be rather more useful for limiting access to the Internet than removing URLs from packages one by one. I don't know how if there is any free software for this purpose, however, since keeping an up-to-date database of safe/unsafe sites is a lot of work and it might need to be done commercially. dansguardian Regards, Paddy -- Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Ron Johnson dijo [Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 08:24:57AM -0600]: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] Up until a certain age the parents should be responsible for keeping control on the machine itself, the software it has installed and the programs they can use/install, including the ports and domains they have access to. [snip] At no time Debian should be censoring any content for innapropiate. Every single bit of information has an audience which might feel offended by it. So help us parents keep control by splitting possibly inappropriate material into separate packages. Like fortune does. Then all the bits are there, and parents have a modicum of control. ...Ok, so we should put mozilla into this category? Hell, it's much easier to type www.sex.com into the address bar or to google for naked babes than it is to install this package. Greetings, -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)1451-2244 / 5554-9450 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 04:30:08 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. After some discussion with the other upstream authors, the current plan of action is: The next release of Dosage will check both /etc/dosage/disabled, and ~/.dosage/disabled, and effectively disable any comics listed in either of the two locations. Sexy Losers will be included in the system-wide file by default, along with any other similarly offensive comics that are added in the future. Is this sufficient to deal with your concerns? -- mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
El Martes 25 Enero 2005 20:19, Tristan Seligmann escribió: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 15:25:14 +0100, Jorge Bernal wrote: another thing: Given A,B where A=parent(B) if ((A have not installed dosage) (B hasn't root access)) B can't access dosage Unless you're already restricting internet access, B can just download it and install/run it from their home directory, so your assertion doesn't really hold. But in that case, it doesn't really matter if it's on Debian or not :) -- Jorge Bernal Koke Personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://www.amedias.org/koke/ Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. - Edsger Dijkstra
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Tristan Seligmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Firing up a normal web browser to view Sexy Losers with is not much harder than using Dosage to download it. This doesn't take away from the idea of having a separate package, of course. If the trend to put unsuitable material in -off packages arises enough, it won't take kids ages to master grep-available -Pe -s Package '.*-off$', methinks. IMO, this half-assed proposal will have exactly the opposite effect of what its proponents are purportedly trying to achieve: it will facilitate the Quest For Unsuitable Material. If you add the other, hidden half of the proposal, which was brought up in the hot-babe thread, i.e. creating special versions of the Debian CDs with controversial contents removed and lock you kids forever in the computer room without Internet access, then you have won; you might as well chop their head off, which has always been a very efficient way to prevent people from seeing porn. Otherwise, they will find a place with Internet access and download the -off packages (they might even report bugs so that -off becomes an official task for easier access). -- Florent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
* Ron Johnson | I don't want the sharp hooks removed. I want them put in boxes | (i.e. packages) where they can be easily installed by root, but | aren't just laying around (i.e., in dosage, along with the nice | round scissors that are suitable for children). | | Am I making any sense to you? Yes and this makes sense, sure. File a wishlist bug asking the offensive strips to be split out, if that is technically feasible. I understood the original poster wanted to remove support for $sex_comic completely because somebody might be offended. That was what I was trying to argue against. -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 09:30:46PM +0100, Florent Rougon wrote: Tristan Seligmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Firing up a normal web browser to view Sexy Losers with is not much harder than using Dosage to download it. This doesn't take away from the idea of having a separate package, of course. If the trend to put unsuitable material in -off packages arises enough, it won't take kids ages to master grep-available -Pe -s Package '.*-off$', methinks. IMO, this half-assed proposal will have exactly the opposite effect of what its proponents are purportedly trying to achieve: it will facilitate the Quest For Unsuitable Material. I'm not really in favour for this proposal but would you at least read the rest off the thread. Splitting the packages off makes it easier for the person responsible for installing packages (i.e. the one with root) to decide what goes and what doesn't. Specifically in this case it allows the parent to install dosage for his kids, but without options to download more sensitive material. If you add the other, hidden half of the proposal, which was brought up in the hot-babe thread, i.e. creating special versions of the Debian CDs with controversial contents removed and lock you kids forever in the computer room without Internet access, then you have won; you might as well chop their head off, which has always been a very efficient way to prevent people from seeing porn. Otherwise, they will find a place with Internet access and download the -off packages (they might even report bugs so that -off becomes an official task for easier access). Doesn't pertain to this proposal, and in any case that hot-babe thread has enough discussion on the subject. greets, Wim -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tuesday 25 January 2005 20:53, Tristan Seligmann wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 04:30:08 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: The problem is things/websites/etc that many parents don't think are appropriate for their children. They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* consider appropriate. After some discussion with the other upstream authors, the current plan of action is: The next release of Dosage will check both /etc/dosage/disabled every parent [1] will have to go through the list of available comics, evaluate them and disable them. - IMO it would be better to have /etc/dosage/disbled be a directory in which to drop lists of unwanted comics. That way whatever groups take offense/don't want a group of comics can easily (they don't need to mess with your packages conffile) create a package that disables a certain kind of comics. This is still a problem on upgrades though, if dosage includes new comics, and you upgrade before the filter-unwanted-comics-package is upgraded you could end up with unwanted packages. hm, how about this: - have a /etc/dosage/collections directory you can drop a files. The name of the dropped file is the collection name, the contents of the file is a list of supported comics making up the collection. - add the option for the admin to block access to comics of category X, or to only allow access to comics of category Y - the building of collections can be done by however feels it's usefull to categorize comics according to some criteria - collections might group the available comics according to subject/style/ genre/language/... which would be more broadly applicable then just kid friendliness (e.g. user only wants Dutch comics/ doesn't want comics dealing with religion, ...) -- Cheers, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) 1. Encrypted mail preferred (GPG KeyID: 0x86624ABB) 2. Plain-text mail recommended since I move html and double format mails to a low priority folder (they're mainly spam) pgpoljF8u9sIL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 08:15:29PM +0100, Wim De Smet wrote: And splitting does indeed change something. If his kids are not root they cannot install the offensive part. Absolutely false. But thanks for playing. - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 22:34:12 +0100, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote: every parent [1] will have to go through the list of available comics, evaluate them and disable them. They'll have to do this anyway if they're not satisfied with whatever the defaults are. [... scheme for blocking based on collections ...] - collections might group the available comics according to subject/style/ genre/language/... which would be more broadly applicable then just kid friendliness (e.g. user only wants Dutch comics/ doesn't want comics dealing with religion, ...) This all seems like major overkill. Does anyone really need this kind of fine-grained control over disabling comic modules? If you just want Dutch comics, then don't download anything except Dutch comics; the typical use case is to run dosage -c @ from a cronjob, which will update the comics that are already present in your comics directory. Categorization along these lines is quite a subjective issue; perhaps having comics organized into categories is useful, but I'm not sure that supporting it along the lines you've described is worth the complexity. -- mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 01:00:19PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: I don't know how if there is any free software for this purpose, Yes, there is. Take a look at Squidguard. however, since keeping an up-to-date database of safe/unsafe sites is a lot of work and it might need to be done commercially. Indeed, that's what commercial companies (like Websense or Optenet) get their $$$ from. Regards Javier signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: every parent [1] will have to go through the list of available comics, evaluate them and disable them. Isn't that required in any case, if the parent wants to do content checking? There is absolutely no guarantee that whatever grouping scheme might be implemented by the package authors / maintainer would correspond 1:1 with the wishes of all possible users. -- * Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology (T.P) * * PGP public key available @ http://www.iki.fi/killer * -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
How is this going to help parents? I don't want my future kids to read Something Positive; it's not pornographic, I don't recall nudity, but that level of cold-hearted cynicism is not something I want my kids exposed to, at least not at a young age. Should we set this up to only grab Garfield, Peanuts, and Calvin and Hobbes? Or accept that there's no bright line here, and that every parent should take the time to examine the comics themselves? -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tuesday 25 January 2005 23:08, Kalle Kivimaa wrote: cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: every parent [1] will have to go through the list of available comics, evaluate them and disable them. Isn't that required in any case, if the parent wants to do content checking? There is absolutely no guarantee that whatever grouping scheme might be implemented by the package authors / maintainer would correspond 1:1 with the wishes of all possible users. no grouping scheme will correspond 1:1: with the wishes of all possible users true: The point however is that these groups don't need to be implemented by the maintainer of dosage. Whatever groups think that a certain grouping scheme would be usefull can easily create their desired grouping (and share it similar minded folks in the form of a simple file to be dropped in a agreed upon directory) -- Cheers, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) 1. Encrypted mail preferred (GPG KeyID: 0x86624ABB) 2. Plain-text mail recommended since I move html and double format mails to a low priority folder (they're mainly spam) pgpHf6HtKSn30.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tuesday, 25. January 2005 12:15, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * Ron Johnson | They don't want this inappropriate material dumped into their | children's laps right along side the things that the parents *do* | consider appropriate. Then they should supervise their child's use of the computer. Relying on Debian as some sort of filter for not letting a child see or read something some parent might consider harmful is stupid. Exactly. Especially since almose everybody has a program called browser installed which can be used to download all kinds of stuff... Grüße, Tilo
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
Wim De Smet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not really in favour for this proposal but would you at least read the rest off the thread. Splitting the packages off makes it easier for the person responsible for installing packages (i.e. the one with root) to decide what goes and what doesn't. Specifically in this case it allows the parent to install dosage for his kids, but without options to download more sensitive material. Rest assured, we are in full agreement here. I was just pointing out that it has the side effect of making sensitive material more visible, which shows how weak the argument if the package is split, I'll be able to prevent my kids from seeing p0rn is (except under extreme, hopefully clearly undesirable conditions exemplified in my previous mail). Doesn't pertain to this proposal, and in any case that hot-babe thread has enough discussion on the subject. If it doesn't, then the above argument in favor of the split is moot, IMO. Anyway, I don't care much whether there is or isn't a split, personally. Good luck. -- Florent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:27 -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Ron Johnson dijo [Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 08:24:57AM -0600]: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] Up until a certain age the parents should be responsible for keeping control on the machine itself, the software it has installed and the programs they can use/install, including the ports and domains they have access to. [snip] At no time Debian should be censoring any content for innapropiate. Every single bit of information has an audience which might feel offended by it. So help us parents keep control by splitting possibly inappropriate material into separate packages. Like fortune does. Then all the bits are there, and parents have a modicum of control. ...Ok, so we should put mozilla into this category? Hell, it's much easier to type www.sex.com into the address bar or to google for naked babes than it is to install this package. There will come a time when he will be *interested* in such things, at which time he'll try such tactics. And use Pan to look for the a.b.p.e groups. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. In the meantime, however, he has no concept of it, and I'd like to keep it that way until his (and her) mind develops enough to show such interest. Following fortune's model, this is what I'm thinking: dosage dosage-comics dosage-comics-off See there's no censorship here... -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. But a much bigger business is selling anti-spam software. This is a billion dollar market, and it is rapidly growing. Any simple and effective solution against spam would defeat revenues and drive several companies into bankrupt, would make consultants jobless. ... Have a single, simple, and permanent solution to the problem and - boom - this billion dollar market is dead. That's one of the reasons why people are expected to live with spam. They have to live with it to make them buy anti-spam software. Content filters are perfect products to keep this market alive. Hadmut Danisch signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: scripts to download porn in Debian?
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 21:26 +0200, Tristan Seligmann wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 20:15:29 +0100, Wim De Smet wrote: The OP wants the offensive parts split off in a separate package. He doesn't want dosage removed from the archive. And splitting does indeed change something. If his kids are not root they cannot install the offensive part. They might find some way around the restrictions (eg. download them directly thru a proxy or something) but this will raise Firing up a normal web browser to view Sexy Losers with is not much harder than using Dosage to download it. This doesn't take away from the idea of having a separate package, of course. When $SON gets old enough to think about such things, then, yes, $SON can easily use Mozilla and Pan to get such things. The key part is old enough to think about such things. He is not, yet. -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. A busy mother makes slothful daughters. Unknown signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
