On Tue, May 18, 1999 at 08:35:30PM -0400, Brian Almeida wrote:
As for preinstallation, let me make two points:
a) Debian really has a long way to go for someone to do mass installs
of it, unattended.
it certainly could be easier, but it's not that hard. i build many
debian boxes...it just takes a lot of experience with debian and a good
knowledge of how to use the available tools ('dpkg --get-selections' and
'dpkg --set-selections' are very useful). I usually build them like
this because i like to use unstable rather than stable (in my experience
the only drawback to this is that there are some days when it is unsafe
to build a machine and i have to wait another day or two for fixed
packages to appear in my debian mirror)
for serious assembly line mass-production of boxes using the stable
release of debian, i would build one standard server (or maybe a
selection of two or three standard configurations - web server, file
and print server, and internet gateway) and use 'dd' or 'tar' to
duplicate the drive. finally, follow that up with a perl or sed/sh/ed
script to customise the config files.
i've done this many times (e.g. to build ppp dialin boxes for schools -
except for IP address and hostname and other minor details, the machines
are identical to each other), and it works. There is no difference
between a debian box built this way and one built using the standard
boot floppies.
e.g. put new server on bench, plug into network. boot with floppy which
NFS mounts a directory containing a .tar.gz file of a complete working
debian installation. partition the disks. untar the archive. run lilo.
run a perl script to customise things like hostname, mailname, ip
address, etc.
(alternatively, the same thing could be done with a custom-burnt CD ROM
rather than an NFS mounted tar archive)
any further customisation can be done by the customer using dpkg
and apt-get. prefer postfix over exim? no problem, apt-get install
postfix. don't want samba? no problem, dpkg -r samba. the important
thing is to have debian (at least base and networking) installed and
working...from that point on, maintaining the system and installing
packages is easyeven from thousands of miles away.
...
Also consider this, linux.com is a 100%-debian drive site - from the
impressions I've gotten, the VA people are really big on Debian, but
for the reasons above aren't doing preinstalls of it. Don't be so
quick to judge things.
agreed. VA really like debian (and they do a lot to support us).
my partner recently tried to get two debian servers from VA Research.
The guy she spoke to was quite knowledgeable about debian and understood
the reasons why she wanted debian rather than RH (to summarize:
quality), but was embarassed to admit that VA dont have the staff to
support debian. He said that VA's debian-using customers generally
don't need a lot of support...but when they do, it is for something
really obscure and difficult which their support staff can't handle.
in short, VA would like to provide debian servers but don't have the
staff or time to do so...they're working flat-out already.
Even so, he went to a lot of trouble to find a VA Research employee who
would take a contract job to install debian on the servers (he said many
of their techs use debian). he wasn't able to do so in the time-frame
that my partner had for installing her servers...so she got someone
from Frontier Global (the co-lo facility the servers were going to) to
install debian for herVA supplied the hardware, GF installed debian.
(btw, this was all organised remotely from australia, via email and
telephone).
a few things seem immediately obvious to me from this:
1. maybe there should be official discussions between debian and VA
Research to figure out what features we could add that would enable VA
to start offering debian boxes again...they used to build them in the
past.
2. there may be an opportunity for debian developers and experienced
debian users to provide contract setup, support, and consulting services
for debian boxes through VA Research - it certainly can't hurt to
contact them.
3. if you want a co-located debian box, Frontier Global is a good
option. their main co-lo facility is not far from VA Research, and
they had debian installed and running very quickly after receiving the
hardware from VA.
craig
--
craig sanders
