Constantly Usable Testing team forming
At DebConf there was a standing-room-only BoF to see if it made sense to form a team to work on the Constantly Usable Testing (CUT) idea. My feeling of the BoF session is that the project is generally open to the idea of doing something to make testing more generally usable. And has a lot of ideas of different ways to accomplish that. A team is being formed, at http://cut.debian.net/ ; there you can find video of the BoF, and a mailing list, which people interested in working on CUT are invited to join. We will use the mailing list, and the website, to develop some initial action plans for how to implement CUT. And to make sure we have enough people to be able to follow through on them. We will report back here to make sure our plans are acceptible before we start doing anything too user-visible. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: constantly usable testing
On Jo, 22 iul 10, 22:51:32, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:10:16PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: I've noticed that linking to this page seems to kill threads, which is not my intent, but: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/ The idea still seems reasonable to me, and the work required, beyond what is already done, not too much. Shame that nobody has tried to do it yet. I've always found CUT to be an interesting (thought) experiment. A particular nice feature of how you present it, is that it's modular enough to be tried with little impact on the rest of Debian; as you observe: « most of which [needed ingredients] are already being done on a best-effort basis ». So, in principle, nothing stops you or anyone else to actually form a CUT team and experiment with the idea. That's probably the only way forward from CUT-is-a-thread-killer to have data that support the feasibility / user appreciation of the idea. For me it's quite obvious that CUT would happen if the relevant teams: (Security, Release, d-i, ...) would have enough manpower. One possible approach would be asking through d-i if the user wants plain testing or a CUT snapshot, and then set the apropiate pinning. Security updates would not be possible via unstable migrations (as it is for testing), but I already mentioned the security team needs more people for this. And there's no need to call CUT differently, just call it beta1, beta2 and rc1, rc2, ... as soon as testing is frozen. With a proper announcement/press release users will jump to using it ;) Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: constantly usable testing
On 23/07/10 at 09:16 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Jo, 22 iul 10, 22:51:32, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:10:16PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: I've noticed that linking to this page seems to kill threads, which is not my intent, but: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/ The idea still seems reasonable to me, and the work required, beyond what is already done, not too much. Shame that nobody has tried to do it yet. I've always found CUT to be an interesting (thought) experiment. A particular nice feature of how you present it, is that it's modular enough to be tried with little impact on the rest of Debian; as you observe: « most of which [needed ingredients] are already being done on a best-effort basis ». So, in principle, nothing stops you or anyone else to actually form a CUT team and experiment with the idea. That's probably the only way forward from CUT-is-a-thread-killer to have data that support the feasibility / user appreciation of the idea. For me it's quite obvious that CUT would happen if the relevant teams: (Security, Release, d-i, ...) would have enough manpower. It depends on the implementation of CUT. One way to see it would be like Joey's idea, improving the current testing suite. Another way to see it would be as a distinct suite (similar to Raphael Hertzog's Working suite, described in his 2002 DPL platform - http://www.debian.org/vote/2002/platforms/raphael#release1). Then we would have release managers for this suite as well, similar to the testing release managers, who would work on keeping this suite in a good shape according to a slightly different set of criterias than the testing RM. L. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100723082741.ga15...@xanadu.blop.info
constantly usable testing
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:10:16PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
I've noticed that linking to this page seems to kill threads, which is
not my intent, but: http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/
The idea still seems reasonable to me, and the work required, beyond
what is already done, not too much. Shame that nobody has tried to do it
yet.
I've always found CUT to be an interesting (thought) experiment.
A particular nice feature of how you present it, is that it's modular
enough to be tried with little impact on the rest of Debian; as you
observe: « most of which [needed ingredients] are already being done on
a best-effort basis ». So, in principle, nothing stops you or anyone
else to actually form a CUT team and experiment with the idea. That's
probably the only way forward from CUT-is-a-thread-killer to have data
that support the feasibility / user appreciation of the idea.
Have you ever actually tried to call people to arms and *form* the CUT
team? (Or maybe that was exactly the point of your mail …)
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
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Re: constantly usable testing
Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Have you ever actually tried to call people to arms and *form* the CUT team? No. But it's been 3 years, so please don't wait for me to do it. ;) -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: constantly usable testing
Have you ever actually tried to call people to arms and *form* the CUT team? No. But it's been 3 years, so please don't wait for me to do it. ;) JFTR, with the great new machine ftpmaster got, we actually have the resources to run such a thing (archive wise, manpower is different). That is, we can (easy enough) provide you with an archive section to play in and see if the idea works out. If there is someone interested in doing the main work on it (ftpmaster only wants the archive side of it), you know where we are. -- bye, Joerg I think there's a world market for about five computers. -- attr. Thomas J. Watson (Chairman of the Board, IBM), 1943 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87ocdykhpt@delenn.ganneff.de
