Re: maildirmake
Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 08:19:35AM +0200, Andreas Metzler wrote: You could start by telling us what maildirmake is supposed to do. Why do we need it? Any program I know of which can handle Maildir is not only capable of storing messages in Maildir folders but also of generating them. This includes e.g. the exim(4) MTA, MDAs like procmail or maildrop, and the MUA mutt. As far as I am aware, maildrop does *not* support creating Maildirs. Even if it does support creating top level Maildir (last I tested it didn't seem to), it doesn't support creating a maildir within a maildir (this apparently is a bit different, and it used by courier-imap). You do with with maildirmake (or at least the version I have installed) with the -f option. See bug #68685 for details. Thanks for clarification. BTW iirc support for maildir within a maildir (i.e. a mailfolder containing both messages and subfolders) is a little bit more limited than basic maildir support, some clients support basic maildir but not maildir within a maildir. I just cannot remember which ones, perhaps Debians patched versions of pine/UW-IMAP? I agree that debianutils could be the correct package. cu andreas -- Hey, da ist ein Ballonautomat auf der Toilette! Unofficial _Debian-packages_ of latest unstable _tin_ http://www.logic.univie.ac.at/~ametzler/debian/tin-snapshot/
Re: maildirmake
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 02:34:39AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Debian-Developers, first, many thanks all of you for your great work. As I am not a pro, I am very glad that most of Debian works out-of-the-box. But, I was looking around and wondering about that I couldn't find any `maildirmake' for Debian, excluding qmail-src, courier and maildrop, which I don't want/don't need to use. Furthermore I'd like to stay with a very small and clean and free system (only usage of apt-get, don't install any unnecessary packages). After searching the web and the debian-pages (for a _long_ time vs. prior problems) I found this: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2000/debian-devel-21/msg01717.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2000/debian-devel-21/msg01719.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2002/debian-user-200206/msg02259.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2002/debian-user-200206/msg02261.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2002/debian-user-200206/msg02278.html Now I'm wondering about it even more. IMHO `maildirmake' is _very_ necessary for any mail and as it seems to be only a 2-line-shell-script why it isn't included anywhere and anyway in the base-system? Sorry about hopping in on this so late... if you're using exim with maildirs, and the maildir doesn't exist yet when a mail arrives, exim will create the maildir on the fly. Which means that this could also be achieved by sending a standard 'welcome' mail to new users when you create them (which is good practice anyway :-) -- Wouter Verhelst Debian GNU/Linux -- http://www.debian.org Nederlandstalige Linux-documentatie -- http://nl.linux.org An expert can usually spot the difference between a fake charge and a full one, but there are plenty of dead experts. -- National Geographic Channel, in a documentary about large African beasts.
Re: maildirmake
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:36:17AM +1000, Brian May wrote: You could start by telling us what maildirmake is supposed to do. Why do we need it? Any program I know of which can handle Maildir is not only capable of storing messages in Maildir folders but also of generating them. This includes e.g. the exim(4) MTA, MDAs like procmail or maildrop, and the MUA mutt. As far as I am aware, maildrop does *not* support creating Maildirs. Not intrinsically, but it's trivial to hack it, DUMMY=`[ -d mail/maildir ] || maildirmake mail/maildir` Even if it does support creating top level Maildir (last I tested it didn't seem to), it doesn't support creating a maildir within a maildir (this apparently is a bit different, and it used by courier-imap). You do with with maildirmake (or at least the version I have installed) with the -f option. DUMMY=`[ -d mail/maildir/.folder ] || maildirmake -f folder mail/maildir` -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: maildirmake
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 01:12:04PM +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote: On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, David B Harris wrote: Exim is capable of handling Maildir mailboxes. It's Priority: important. I don't know if that counts as shipping it by default or not, but I would certainly say that it's the closest thing around. Capable of handling, yes, but then, so is cat. g Once delivered, though, there's no way of getting it back out again unless you're running something like courier or similar. Or most modern local MUAs... after all, most folks don't read their mbox with cat, either (though it's equally possible). My logic was that, from the basic system, Maildir mailboxes are no use. Things like courier make Maildir useful, so that's where the maildirmake script should live. It *might* make sense to put it in exim where people can run it to make their mailboxes, but since the delivery is useless without other programs to post-process, I'm still not won over on the idea... It is, to within a close order, as useful as mbox mail delivery; however, it probably isn't worthy of it's own package, and having multiple MTAs (or MUAs) provide it makes little sense, really... perhaps it belongs in one of the general utility packages? -- Joel Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpEAWccWVLSz.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: maildirmake
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:12:04 +1000 (EST) Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Capable of handling, yes, but then, so is cat. g Once delivered, though, there's no way of getting it back out again unless you're running something like courier or similar. Or Mutt, or a halfdozen other MUAs. :) My logic was that, from the basic system, Maildir mailboxes are no use. Things like courier make Maildir useful, so that's where the maildirmake script should live. It *might* make sense to put it in exim where people can run it to make their mailboxes, but since the delivery is useless without other programs to post-process, I'm still not won over on the idea... Well, it's a standard format, and it's a trivial shell script. The options are either including maildirmake(1) in each and every MUA that understands Maildir formats (understanding here that imapds perform many/most functions traditionally assigned to an MUA), and having them all either Conflicts: with one another or using alternatives. Given how simple it is, makes more sense to have it in one place. I don't know where it should be (in all the MTAs?), but there you go :) pgpmJKfebDkaV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: maildirmake
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, David B Harris wrote: Given how simple it is, makes more sense to have it in one place. I don't know where it should be (in all the MTAs?), but there you go :) Well I have one in dovecot but I don't see why it couldn't be in e.g. debianutils. -- Jaldhar H. Vyas [EMAIL PROTECTED] La Salle Debain - http://www.braincells.com/debian/
Re: maildirmake
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] But, I was looking around and wondering about that I couldn't find any `maildirmake' for Debian, excluding qmail-src, courier and maildrop, which I don't want/don't need to use. [...] You could start by telling us what maildirmake is supposed to do. Why do we need it? Any program I know of which can handle Maildir is not only capable of storing messages in Maildir folders but also of generating them. This includes e.g. the exim(4) MTA, MDAs like procmail or maildrop, and the MUA mutt. cu andreas
Re: maildirmake
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 01:12:04PM +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote: My logic was that, from the basic system, Maildir mailboxes are no use. Can I have a bit of the weed you are smoking? Seems to be good. Package: mutt Priority: standard `standard' These packages provide a reasonably small but not too limited character-mode system. This is what will be installed by default if the user doesn't select anything else. It doesn't include many large applications. -- Marcelo
Re: maildirmake
* Andreas Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You could start by telling us what maildirmake is supposed to do. Why do we need it? Any program I know of which can handle Maildir is not only capable of storing messages in Maildir folders but also of generating them. This includes e.g. the exim(4) MTA, MDAs like procmail or maildrop, and the MUA mutt. Same for Postfix. Who needs maildirmake? -- Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V a) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charite Campus MitteTel. +49 (0)30-450 570-155 Referat V a - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax. +49 (0)30-450 570-916 AIM: ralfpostfix
Re: maildirmake
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Dienstag, 24. Juni 2003 09:45 schrieb Ralf Hildebrandt: * Andreas Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You could start by telling us what maildirmake is supposed to do. Why do we need it? Any program I know of which can handle Maildir is not only capable of storing messages in Maildir folders but also of generating them. This includes e.g. the exim(4) MTA, MDAs like procmail or maildrop, and the MUA mutt. Same for Postfix. Who needs maildirmake? I wonder how all this MTAs and MDAs create shared folders automatically ... Michael - -- Homepage: http://www.worldforge.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE++AgNWSOgCCdjSDsRAm+DAJ9XRo8aq74uAEVwU0RyuLe/YLnDIwCeOkmq 10rdjVBmsVbKTlGipjnBNUM= =Z/jm -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: maildirmake
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 09:45:30AM +0200, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: * Andreas Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You could start by telling us what maildirmake is supposed to do. Why do we need it? Any program I know of which can handle Maildir is not only capable of storing messages in Maildir folders but also of generating them. This includes e.g. the exim(4) MTA, MDAs like procmail or maildrop, and the MUA mutt. Same for Postfix. Who needs maildirmake? Same for masqmail... But why not create a small utility that creates it? It's trivial, and I can recycle some code from masqmail. Greetings, Oliver -- .''`. : :' :Oliver Kurth [EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `' Debian GNU/Linux maintainer - www.debian.org `- pgpfGn8NFLXoE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: maildirmake
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 09:45:30AM +0200, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: * Andreas Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You could start by telling us what maildirmake is supposed to do. Why do we need it? Any program I know of which can handle Maildir is not only capable of storing messages in Maildir folders but also of generating them. This includes e.g. the exim(4) MTA, MDAs like procmail or maildrop, and the MUA mutt. Same for Postfix. Who needs maildirmake? IIRC courier-imap expects ~/Maildir to exist before you can check your mail (but maildirmake ships with courier-base). -- sam clegg :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: http://superduper.net/ :: PGP : D91EE369 $superduper: .signature,v 1.13 2003/06/17 10:29:24 sam Exp $ pgpjWcShwCS3a.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: maildirmake
* Michael Koch [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You could start by telling us what maildirmake is supposed to do. Why do we need it? Any program I know of which can handle Maildir is not only capable of storing messages in Maildir folders but also of generating them. This includes e.g. the exim(4) MTA, MDAs like procmail or maildrop, and the MUA mutt. Same for Postfix. Who needs maildirmake? I wonder how all this MTAs and MDAs create shared folders automatically ... In that special case you need maildirmake, but not the simple shell script, but the version that comes with maildrop. -- Ralf Hildebrandt (Im Auftrag des Referat V a) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charite Campus MitteTel. +49 (0)30-450 570-155 Referat V a - Kommunikationsnetze - Fax. +49 (0)30-450 570-916 AIM: ralfpostfix
Re: maildirmake
Am Die, 2003-06-24 um 03.46 schrieb Matthew Palmer: On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now I'm wondering about it even more. IMHO `maildirmake' is _very_ necessary for any mail and as it seems to be only a 2-line-shell-script why it isn't included anywhere and anyway in the base-system? As I recall, maildirmake is only needed if you are running Maildir-based MDAs, which Debian does not by default[1]. That is enough of a reason not to ship it in the base system, regardless of whether it's a two line shell script or not. I use offlineimap to get my remote IMAP Folders synced with my laptop. Offlineimap writes directly to maildirs. So I think there _are_ cases where no courier is needed, but a maildirmake program. I installed another package thats comes with a maildirmake program, but a real maildirmake package would be nicer ;), maybe a maildir toolbox or something like that would be usefull. *snip* formorer -- Alexander formorer Wirt KeyID: BC7D020A EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 28651245 WWW: http://www.formorer.de Encrypted and Signed Email preferred. signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
Re: maildirmake
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 08:19:35AM +0200, Andreas Metzler wrote: You could start by telling us what maildirmake is supposed to do. Why do we need it? Any program I know of which can handle Maildir is not only capable of storing messages in Maildir folders but also of generating them. This includes e.g. the exim(4) MTA, MDAs like procmail or maildrop, and the MUA mutt. As far as I am aware, maildrop does *not* support creating Maildirs. Even if it does support creating top level Maildir (last I tested it didn't seem to), it doesn't support creating a maildir within a maildir (this apparently is a bit different, and it used by courier-imap). You do with with maildirmake (or at least the version I have installed) with the -f option. See bug #68685 for details. -- Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: maildirmake
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: My logic was that, from the basic system, Maildir mailboxes are no use. Can I have a bit of the weed you are smoking? Seems to be good. They're pine needles. I really do need to get off them, they're keeping my brain in the 70's... inertia can be hard to beat... Yes, I now know that decent MUAs can handle Maildir locally, so I'd like to remove my objection to putting maildirmake in the base system. Debianutils seems like the place for it to go, since there are other not-really-debian-specific utils in there already, although my aesthetic antennae are twitching... -- --- #include disclaimer.h Matthew Palmer, Geek In Residence http://ieee.uow.edu.au/~mjp16
maildirmake
Hello Debian-Developers, first, many thanks all of you for your great work. As I am not a pro, I am very glad that most of Debian works out-of-the-box. But, I was looking around and wondering about that I couldn't find any `maildirmake' for Debian, excluding qmail-src, courier and maildrop, which I don't want/don't need to use. Furthermore I'd like to stay with a very small and clean and free system (only usage of apt-get, don't install any unnecessary packages). After searching the web and the debian-pages (for a _long_ time vs. prior problems) I found this: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2000/debian-devel-21/msg01717.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2000/debian-devel-21/msg01719.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2002/debian-user-200206/msg02259.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2002/debian-user-200206/msg02261.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2002/debian-user-200206/msg02278.html Now I'm wondering about it even more. IMHO `maildirmake' is _very_ necessary for any mail and as it seems to be only a 2-line-shell-script why it isn't included anywhere and anyway in the base-system? Thanks Andreas -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging more http://www.gmx.net +++ Bitte lächeln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!
Re: maildirmake
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now I'm wondering about it even more. IMHO `maildirmake' is _very_ necessary for any mail and as it seems to be only a 2-line-shell-script why it isn't included anywhere and anyway in the base-system? As I recall, maildirmake is only needed if you are running Maildir-based MDAs, which Debian does not by default[1]. That is enough of a reason not to ship it in the base system, regardless of whether it's a two line shell script or not. Any package which actually needs to create Maildir folders (or which may need the user to do so to take advantage of the package) should declare the appropriate relationship with a maildirmake-providing package. Since you shouldn't need to use maildirmake except when using something like courier, I don't see the problem with having it installed in order to have the script available. Could you elaborate on your usage of maildirmake in this courier-less situation? [1] Arguments as to whether Debian should do this or not should be directed to /dev/null. Thanks Andreas -- --- #include disclaimer.h Matthew Palmer, Geek In Residence http://ieee.uow.edu.au/~mjp16
Re: maildirmake
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:46:48 +1000 (EST) Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now I'm wondering about it even more. IMHO `maildirmake' is _very_ necessary for any mail and as it seems to be only a 2-line-shell-script why it isn't included anywhere and anyway in the base-system? As I recall, maildirmake is only needed if you are running Maildir-based MDAs, which Debian does not by default[1]. That is enough of a reason not to ship it in the base system, regardless of whether it's a two line shell script or not. [1] Arguments as to whether Debian should do this or not should be directed to /dev/null. Exim is capable of handling Maildir mailboxes. It's Priority: important. I don't know if that counts as shipping it by default or not, but I would certainly say that it's the closest thing around. pgp8nmZT4A4RL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: maildirmake
Thanks Matthew and David. I think, it is a _strange_ discussion to use mbox or maildir and doesn't lead to an one-and-only solution. Could you elaborate on your usage of maildirmake in this courier-less situation? I'm using getmail, which is able to deliver directly in maildir and mutt, which can read maildir. As I am a single user I don't see there any disadvantages if I use maildir - as well as I don't see any advantages if I'd use mbox. Discussions about mbox vs. maildir: http://www.courier-mta.org/mbox-vs-maildir/ http://www.twuug.org/lists/twuug/2002-08/msg00064.html http://www.exim.org/pipermail/exim-users/Week-of-Mon-19991018/014824.html http://www.ornl.gov/cts/archives/mailing-lists/qmail/1998/07/msg00572.html Others: http://www.qmail.org/man/man5/maildir.html http://www.qmail.org/man/man5/mbox.html -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging more http://www.gmx.net +++ Bitte lächeln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!
Re: maildirmake
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, David B Harris wrote: On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:46:48 +1000 (EST) Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now I'm wondering about it even more. IMHO `maildirmake' is _very_ necessary for any mail and as it seems to be only a 2-line-shell-script why it isn't included anywhere and anyway in the base-system? As I recall, maildirmake is only needed if you are running Maildir-based MDAs, which Debian does not by default[1]. That is enough of a reason not to ship it in the base system, regardless of whether it's a two line shell script or not. [1] Arguments as to whether Debian should do this or not should be directed to /dev/null. Exim is capable of handling Maildir mailboxes. It's Priority: important. I don't know if that counts as shipping it by default or not, but I would certainly say that it's the closest thing around. Capable of handling, yes, but then, so is cat. g Once delivered, though, there's no way of getting it back out again unless you're running something like courier or similar. My logic was that, from the basic system, Maildir mailboxes are no use. Things like courier make Maildir useful, so that's where the maildirmake script should live. It *might* make sense to put it in exim where people can run it to make their mailboxes, but since the delivery is useless without other programs to post-process, I'm still not won over on the idea... -- --- #include disclaimer.h Matthew Palmer, Geek In Residence http://ieee.uow.edu.au/~mjp16
