Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-19 Thread Ian Jackson
Asheesh Laroia writes (Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now):
 Paul Wise answered this, basically -- it's kind of a mess. Debexpo doesn't 
 really improve the situation yet.

Right.  And thanks to Paul for answering the question.

 All it does is give us a solid platform on top of which to build a 
 decent solution to that problem.

Right.

 Paul's list is quite comprehensive, and could serve as a blueprint for 
 places that debexpo could harvest information from. That way, the debexpo 
 page for a package could show the latest info from all those sources.

It might be a good idea to think about how the mentor workflow is
supposed to work and arrange (for example) that there is one place
where it is recorded who is working on a particular
package-in-need-of-a-mentor.  (Obviously who might include more than
one person.)

We also need to formally track the state of such mentor requests, in
the same way we do bugs.  Perhaps a mentors bug psuedopackage would do
as a stopgap ?  We could evolve some usertags as we went.

What I'm trying to get to is a point where it's reasonably
straightforward for an existing experienced DD, who knows about
packaging but not very much about the mentor process details, and has
a bit of spare time, to:

 1. Find a package that needs a mentor and/or a sponsor that interests
   them or that they might know something about

 2. Download the actual package and review it (this part debexpo
   currently seems to do fairly well)

 3. Find the comments made by mentors (whether themselves or someone
   else) on previous versions of the package

 4. Make a decision, eg to decide to upload the package, to provide
   a list of things to fix to the maintainer, to join the package's
   team, or whatever

 5. Know where to send their comments and how to communicate their
   decision (in particular, to stop the package appearing in the list
   of packages that are in need of attention from a mentor, in step 1)

 6. Be able to request or decline email notifications and copies when
   a new version is proposed for sponsoring, when other people make
   comments, etc.

It's fine if much of this involves traffic on a public list, but
mentors should not be expected to subscribe to such a list.

Much of this could perhaps be done with the BTS already.

Ian.


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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-17 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 07:03:03AM -0400, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
 Thanks to huge work by Johnny Lamb, Christoph Haas, Jan Dittberner,
 Kalle Söderman, Serafeim Zanikolas, David Paleino, and Paul Wise, we
 have had a alpha-level product called Debexpo that can replace
 mentors.debian.net as the place we do package review for new
 contributors in Debian.
snip
 It's live: http://mentors.debian.net/

That's a great achievement!
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to make it possible.

As a minor nitpick, can you add to the footer a link to the code?

Many Debian services could benefit from more prominent footer links to
the code, to encourage patches are welcome habits and to make it clear
that the code for all our services is available. (yes, in this specific
case I know that the availability of debexpo code is mentioned at
http://wiki.debian.org/Debexpo , but making it more readily available
wouldn't hurt, would it?)

Cheers.
-- 
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zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Quando anche i santi ti voltano le spalle, |  .  |. I've fans everywhere
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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-17 Thread Arno Töll
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Hi Stefano,

On 17.08.2011 12:14, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
 As a minor nitpick, can you add to the footer a link to the code?

thanks for the hint. We completely forgot about it, indeed. I've
added[1] the link to the templates and it will appear on the deployment
site soon(-ish).


[1]
http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=debexpo/debexpo.git;a=commit;h=263a568427d910eb91d95a278eb469f0bdd265a3
- -- 
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Links to the sources for services (was Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now)

2011-08-17 Thread Steve McIntyre
Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:

As a minor nitpick, can you add to the footer a link to the code?

Many Debian services could benefit from more prominent footer links to
the code, to encourage patches are welcome habits and to make it clear
that the code for all our services is available. (yes, in this specific
case I know that the availability of debexpo code is mentioned at
http://wiki.debian.org/Debexpo , but making it more readily available
wouldn't hurt, would it?)

Very good point, and something that we should push for elsewhere.

/me goes to add such a link to cdimage-search.debian.org...

-- 
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...In the UNIX world, people tend to interpret `non-technical user'
 as meaning someone who's only ever written one device driver. -- Daniel Pead


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Re: Links to the sources for services (was Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now)

2011-08-17 Thread Jonathan Wiltshire
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:32:55AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
 Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
 
 As a minor nitpick, can you add to the footer a link to the code?
 
 Many Debian services could benefit from more prominent footer links to
 the code, to encourage patches are welcome habits and to make it clear
 that the code for all our services is available. (yes, in this specific
 case I know that the availability of debexpo code is mentioned at
 http://wiki.debian.org/Debexpo , but making it more readily available
 wouldn't hurt, would it?)
 
 Very good point, and something that we should push for elsewhere.

#638059 is open against the PTS for this; maybe it should be reassigned and
generalised.


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Debian Developer http://people.debian.org/~jmw

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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-17 Thread Jeremiah Foster
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Hash: SHA1


On Aug 17, 2011, at 12:14, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 07:03:03AM -0400, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
 Thanks to huge work by Johnny Lamb, Christoph Haas, Jan Dittberner,
 Kalle Söderman, Serafeim Zanikolas, David Paleino, and Paul Wise, we
 have had a alpha-level product called Debexpo that can replace
 mentors.debian.net as the place we do package review for new
 contributors in Debian.
 snip
 It's live: http://mentors.debian.net/
 
 That's a great achievement!
 Thanks to everyone who has contributed to make it possible.
 
 As a minor nitpick, can you add to the footer a link to the code?
 
 Many Debian services could benefit from more prominent footer links to
 the code, to encourage patches are welcome habits and to make it clear
 that the code for all our services is available. (yes, in this specific
 case I know that the availability of debexpo code is mentioned at
 http://wiki.debian.org/Debexpo , but making it more readily available
 wouldn't hurt, would it?)

Excellent point zack, there is a lot of really great tooling in Debian and 
people saw links to code in the footer of various tools they would likely want 
to start using it in their projects, hopefully improving it in the process.

Regards,

Jeremiah
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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-16 Thread Asheesh Laroia

On Fri, 12 Aug 2011, Ian Jackson wrote:


Asheesh Laroia writes (mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now):

It's live: http://mentors.debian.net/


Thanks, this looks very cool.

I have a question, from the point of view of a potential
sponsor/mentor.

How can I tell the status of each of these packages ?  I mean: I would 
like to know whether anyone else has already reviewed it, or is working 
on it, or has uploaded it to Debian proper.  Am I expected to subscribe 
to debian-mentors ?  The introductory page for sponsors was a bit 
sparse.


Paul Wise answered this, basically -- it's kind of a mess. Debexpo doesn't 
really improve the situation yet.


All it does is give us a solid platform on top of which to build a 
decent solution to that problem.


Paul's list is quite comprehensive, and could serve as a blueprint for 
places that debexpo could harvest information from. That way, the debexpo 
page for a package could show the latest info from all those sources.


-- Asheesh.


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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-14 Thread Arno Töll
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Hi Ivan,

On 13.08.2011 17:36, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
   I wonder, is it possible to add a bit more magic to debexpo, so that
   the comments made via the Web interface would be forwarded to the
   list, and vice versa?
...
   This task is indeed in my queue, but I won't probably be able to
   get to it this year.

I am also interested to implement a mailing list - Expo bridge as
that's very important I think and necessary for future plans I have with
Expo. I was doing some contributions to Expo already in the last few
weeks, but I can't say when/if I find time to start such a larger sub-task.

If you are interested to implement it, I would very welcome that, but we
should coordinate our plans here. I am not sure if we really need a such
a big dependency as a Gmane like service. Its probably enough to
subscribe to debian-mentors (e.g. to a server side mbox) and track RFS
threads by a non-standard header or magic subject / pseudo tag similar
to the BTS control server.


- -- 
with kind regards,
Arno Töll
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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-14 Thread Ivan Shmakov
 Arno Töll deb...@toell.net writes:
 On 13.08.2011 17:36, Ivan Shmakov wrote:

  I wonder, is it possible to add a bit more magic to debexpo, so
  that the comments made via the Web interface would be forwarded to
  the list, and vice versa?

  This task is indeed in my queue, but I won't probably be able to get
  to it this year.

  I am also interested to implement a mailing list - Expo bridge as
  that's very important I think and necessary for future plans I have
  with Expo.  I was doing some contributions to Expo already in the
  last few weeks, but I can't say when/if I find time to start such a
  larger sub-task.

  If you are interested to implement it, I would very welcome that, but
  we should coordinate our plans here.

Indeed.  However, as I've already noted, I won't be able to get
to that task until at (the very) least the next year.

  I am not sure if we really need a such a big dependency as a Gmane
  like service.

I've referenced Gmane as an example of the successful engine
used for turning the (news, but mail is quite similar) messages
into Web pages and RSS feeds.  I don't know their code base all
that close, but, IIRC, it's free software, and my opinion is
that it'd be pity if we won't be able to reuse it, at least in
part.

  Its probably enough to subscribe to debian-mentors (e.g. to a server
  side mbox)

(Just don't use the Unix mbox format for that.)

  and track RFS threads by a non-standard header or magic subject /
  pseudo tag similar to the BTS control server.

Why not the standard Message-Id:, In-Reply-To:, and References:
headers?

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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-13 Thread Paul Wise
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 5:12 AM, Ivan Shmakov wrote:

        I wonder, is it possible to add a bit more magic to debexpo, so
        that the comments made via the Web interface would be forwarded
        to the list, and vice versa?

        Perhaps Gmane's engine (which is, IIRC, free software) could be
        used as an inspiration?

Debexpo is software so it should be possible to add anything, as long
as there is a person who feels motivated enough to implement it. Are
you that person?

I imagine that it would be hard to extract mails and present them on
the web, but you could at least give pointers to NEW/incoming, list
archives and the ITP bug replies on the comments page.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-13 Thread Ivan Shmakov
 Paul Wise p...@debian.org writes:
 On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 5:12 AM, Ivan Shmakov wrote:

  I wonder, is it possible to add a bit more magic to debexpo, so that
  the comments made via the Web interface would be forwarded to the
  list, and vice versa?

  Perhaps Gmane's engine (which is, IIRC, free software) could be used
  as an inspiration?

  Debexpo is software so it should be possible to add anything, as long
  as there is a person who feels motivated enough to implement it.  Are
  you that person?

  I imagine that it would be hard to extract mails and present them on
  the web,

This task is indeed in my queue, but I won't probably be able to
get to it this year.

  but you could at least give pointers to NEW/incoming, list archives
  and the ITP bug replies on the comments page.

I. e., the pointers to the related messages (or threads) within
the archive?

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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-12 Thread Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
Asheesh Laroia ashe...@asheesh.org writes:

 It's live: http://mentors.debian.net/

Very impressive. Congratulations to all involved parties. :)


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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-12 Thread Asheesh Laroia
Excerpts from Raphael Hertzog's message of Thu Aug 11 15:31:57 -0400 2011:
 Hi Asheesh,
 
 thank you for your work on this new version! It's really a big step
 forward.
 
 On Thu, 11 Aug 2011, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
  It's live: http://mentors.debian.net/
 
 The PTS cron mail now gives me this message:
 | Downloading 
 http://mentors.debian.net/debian/dists/unstable/non-free/source/Sources.gz
 | failed, Sources-mentors_non-free.gz is stale now
 
 Can you ensure it's always generated (even if empty) ?

I just made it manually for now. When it needs to be refreshed it should be
created as non-empty.

Does that do the trick?

-- Asheesh.


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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-12 Thread Raphael Hertzog
Hi,

On Fri, 12 Aug 2011, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
  The PTS cron mail now gives me this message:
  | Downloading 
  http://mentors.debian.net/debian/dists/unstable/non-free/source/Sources.gz
  | failed, Sources-mentors_non-free.gz is stale now
  
  Can you ensure it's always generated (even if empty) ?
 
 I just made it manually for now. When it needs to be refreshed it should be
 created as non-empty.
 
 Does that do the trick?

As long as it doesn't disappear when it will switch back from non-empty to
empty, yes. :-)

Thanks.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Follow my Debian News ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.com (English)
  ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.fr (Français)


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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-12 Thread Ian Jackson
Asheesh Laroia writes (mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now):
 It's live: http://mentors.debian.net/

Thanks, this looks very cool.

I have a question, from the point of view of a potential
sponsor/mentor.

How can I tell the status of each of these packages ?  I mean: I
would like to know whether anyone else has already reviewed it, or is
working on it, or has uploaded it to Debian proper.  Am I expected to
subscribe to debian-mentors ?  The introductory page for sponsors
was a bit sparse.

Thanks,
Ian.


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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-12 Thread Paul Wise
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:

 How can I tell the status of each of these packages ?  I mean: I
 would like to know whether anyone else has already reviewed it, or is
 working on it, or has uploaded it to Debian proper.  Am I expected to
 subscribe to debian-mentors ?  The introductory page for sponsors
 was a bit sparse.

The previous ways to check status were:

look at NEW or incoming.d.o.

look for replies to the ITP bug and or to debian-devel.

look for replies to the RFS mail on debian-mentors.

debexpo adds this to the above:

look for comments on the mentors.d.n website.

There never was any guarantee that subscribing to -mentors meant you
would know about other reviews. Indeed, it often happens that a
package gets uploaded to the archive and the maintainer/sponsor don't
even reply to the RFS saying that the package was uploaded. Or the
reviews moved to IRC or some team's mailing list. This doesn't change
with the new mentors, it just introduces yet another place to look for
reviews. Perhaps the comments on the site will become the primary
place for feedback, but I doubt it considering Debian's mail-centric
culture.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-12 Thread Ivan Shmakov
 Paul Wise p...@debian.org writes:
 On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:

[…]

  debexpo adds this to the above:

  look for comments on the mentors.d.n website.

  There never was any guarantee that subscribing to -mentors meant you
  would know about other reviews.  Indeed, it often happens that a
  package gets uploaded to the archive and the maintainer/sponsor don't
  even reply to the RFS saying that the package was uploaded.  Or the
  reviews moved to IRC or some team's mailing list.  This doesn't
  change with the new mentors, it just introduces yet another place to
  look for reviews.  Perhaps the comments on the site will become the
  primary place for feedback, but I doubt it considering Debian's
  mail-centric culture.

I wonder, is it possible to add a bit more magic to debexpo, so
that the comments made via the Web interface would be forwarded
to the list, and vice versa?

Perhaps Gmane's engine (which is, IIRC, free software) could be
used as an inspiration?

-- 
FSF associate member #7257


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mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-11 Thread Asheesh Laroia

Hello lovely debian-devel folks,

Thanks to huge work by Johnny Lamb, Christoph Haas, Jan Dittberner, Kalle 
Söderman, Serafeim Zanikolas, David Paleino, and Paul Wise, we have had a 
alpha-level product called Debexpo that can replace mentors.debian.net as 
the place we do package review for new contributors in Debian.


About a year ago, we began the process to revive the project. Andrey 
Rahmatullin (wRAR), Arno Töll, Wolodja Wentland, and I have finally 
finished it. Christine Spang (along with SIPB at MIT) put together the 
virtual machine that runs it. Thanks to many others who have provided 
advice and ideas.


It's live: http://mentors.debian.net/

The big differences between this and the old code are:

* Maintainable codebase

* Ability to see package quality on the package page -- see e.g. 
http://expo.debian.net/package/trafficserver


* Ability to leave comments on the web, and subscribe to receive email 
updates about packages


* Ability to write new plugins that do new kinds of quality checks

* Beautiful new design, based on main Debian.org layout (idea thanks to 
Francesca Ciceri)


* Christoph Haas can finally stop worrying that it'll never happen.

Finishing this coding and migration has been the biggest single thing I've 
been doing in my life for the past three or four weeks, so I am now going 
to take a bit of a break from it. I will try to advise and make sure that 
the community grows.


Huge props to Arno for not only excellent hacking, but fantastic work in 
getting new contributors.


http://wiki.debian.org/Debexpo explains where to find the bug tracker and 
mailing list.


There is surely more work to be done -- changing strings, updating more 
docs, and so forth. You can find us on #debexpo and also our bug tracker.


P.S. Johnny Lamb's original code is actually of pretty high quality. Huge 
thanks to him for that; the logging and the clear file layout helped us as 
immensely.


-- Asheesh.

Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-11 Thread Paul Wise
On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Asheesh Laroia wrote:

 Thanks to huge work by Johnny Lamb, Christoph Haas, Jan Dittberner, Kalle
 Söderman, Serafeim Zanikolas, David Paleino, and Paul Wise, we have had a
 alpha-level product called Debexpo that can replace mentors.debian.net as
 the place we do package review for new contributors in Debian.

Congrats to everyone who was involved in this project, it is a huge
achievement to get this done!

I personally am looking forward to the metrics and sponsor - matching feature:

http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMentorsNet#Metrics

I might actually start doing sponsorship again if this were implemented.

Any volunteers?

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: mentors.debian.net runs the debexpo code now

2011-08-11 Thread Raphael Hertzog
Hi Asheesh,

thank you for your work on this new version! It's really a big step
forward.

On Thu, 11 Aug 2011, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
 It's live: http://mentors.debian.net/

The PTS cron mail now gives me this message:
| Downloading 
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/dists/unstable/non-free/source/Sources.gz
| failed, Sources-mentors_non-free.gz is stale now

Can you ensure it's always generated (even if empty) ?

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Follow my Debian News ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.com (English)
  ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.fr (Français)


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