Re: Can we get rid of network-manager?
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 12:37:45AM +0100, Klaus Knopper wrote: > > I have not tested but wouldn't it be sufficient to let a relevant > > metapackage simply conflict with network-manager? From my understanding > > the conflict should be "stronger" than recommends (if not I'd consider > > it a bug) and so apt-get / aptitude should leave out the conflicting > > package. > > Removing NetworkManager takes away the possibility of easy network > configuration, I did not discussed the question whether it makes sense to remove NetworkManager or not. I was just addressing the issue that you could probably override the "Recommends is installed by default" issue by properly choosen "Conflicts". > However, I found that another way of avoiding conflicts between > NetworkManager and ifup/ifdown is possible by just making NetworkManager > aware of everything preconfigured in /etc/network/interfaces, If this solution works better I'd be in favour of it. > This may be a way of keeping NetworkManager intact in Skolelinux, > instead of removing it completely. But it also means that you need > another config file change, since "managed=false" is NetworkManagers > default in Debian. ... which is probably a bad setting anyway and should be replaced by a debconf question. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-edu-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110224070357.gb18...@an3as.eu
Re: Can we get rid of network-manager?
Hi all, On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:40:38PM +0100, Andreas Tille wrote: > On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 09:09:33PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: > > The issue is that apt in Squeeze install recommends by default, > > and NetworkManager is recommended by packages we do want to install. > > We will need to rewrite the entire tasksel framework we use to install > > packages to do something about that. > > I have not tested but wouldn't it be sufficient to let a relevant > metapackage simply conflict with network-manager? From my understanding > the conflict should be "stronger" than recommends (if not I'd consider > it a bug) and so apt-get / aptitude should leave out the conflicting > package. > > > I am open for suggestions. I believe our best option is to disable > > NetworkManager, both in d-i and after installation, and leave it at > > that. > > This would not solve the "other packages we do not want and come with > network-manager" issue. > > Kind regards > > Andreas. Removing NetworkManager takes away the possibility of easy network configuration, VPN access and automatic roaming from client users. This may of course be a deliberate decision if you want to avoid users messing with the client network configuration at all. However, I found that another way of avoiding conflicts between NetworkManager and ifup/ifdown is possible by just making NetworkManager aware of everything preconfigured in /etc/network/interfaces, and actually using this file for NetworkManagers configuration handling, by setting: [main] plugins=ifupdown,keyfile [ifupdown] managed=true in /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf. This way, NetworkManager will just do whatever is written in /etc/network/interface, i.e. configure the clients like it's set forth there, independent of the graphical (nm-applet) client running on the users desktop. To avoid duplicate activation, you may want to disable "ifup -a" (the "network" init script) elsewhere. This may be a way of keeping NetworkManager intact in Skolelinux, instead of removing it completely. But it also means that you need another config file change, since "managed=false" is NetworkManagers default in Debian. Regards -Klaus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-edu-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110223233745.gc26...@knopper.net
Re: Can we get rid of network-manager?
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 09:09:33PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: > The issue is that apt in Squeeze install recommends by default, > and NetworkManager is recommended by packages we do want to install. > We will need to rewrite the entire tasksel framework we use to install > packages to do something about that. I have not tested but wouldn't it be sufficient to let a relevant metapackage simply conflict with network-manager? From my understanding the conflict should be "stronger" than recommends (if not I'd consider it a bug) and so apt-get / aptitude should leave out the conflicting package. > I am open for suggestions. I believe our best option is to disable > NetworkManager, both in d-i and after installation, and leave it at > that. This would not solve the "other packages we do not want and come with network-manager" issue. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-edu-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110223214038.gh24...@an3as.eu
Re: Can we get rid of network-manager?
[Andreas B. Mundt] > After these changes, the machine seems to work. Can we make sure > that NetworkManager isn't installed from the beginning? IIRC we > already had discussions about that issue, but I don't remember the > final conclusions (if any). > To me it looks as if NetworkManager is unnecessary and only causes > unforeseeable problems and complications. > > Any hints or ideas? While I agree that we want to avoid NetworkManager on everything but standalone and roaming profiles, I tried and it was easier said than done. The issue is that apt in Squeeze install recommends by default, and NetworkManager is recommended by packages we do want to install. We will need to rewrite the entire tasksel framework we use to install packages to do something about that. I am open for suggestions. I believe our best option is to disable NetworkManager, both in d-i and after installation, and leave it at that. Happy hacking, -- Petter Reinholdtsen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-edu-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110223200933.ga2...@login1.uio.no
Can we get rid of network-manager?
Hi, when installing the workstation profile (I tested this in combination with the ltsp-server-profile), the network-manager package seems to spoil the installed system. First, it removes the dhcp interface by adding '#NetworkManager#' in front of the relevant line in /etc/network/interfaces: auto eth0 #NetworkManager#iface eth0 inet dhcp Cf. #530024, #612247 and http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager for more information. I tried to add the interface again. However, from the log messages I concluded that NetworkManager was still very active for reasons I'm not sure they make sense, because the machine failed to accept the name offered by dhcp and other faiures. I removed networkmanager now (see aptitude log below) and a whole bunch of other packages we don't want on a workstation could be removed too, because they had no dependencies left (libnss-mdns was installed). After these changes, the machine seems to work. Can we make sure that NetworkManager isn't installed from the beginning? IIRC we already had discussions about that issue, but I don't remember the final conclusions (if any). To me it looks as if NetworkManager is unnecessary and only causes unforeseeable problems and complications. Any hints or ideas? Best regards, Andi >From the sucessive aptitude runs: Aptitude 0.6.3: log report Wed, Feb 23 2011 19:57:56 +0100 [...] Will install 1 packages, and remove 3 packages. 5,431 kB of disk space will be freed === [REMOVE, DEPENDENCIES] knm-runtime [REMOVE, DEPENDENCIES] plasma-widget-networkmanagement [INSTALL] libnss-mdns [REMOVE] network-manager === Log complete. Aptitude 0.6.3: log report Wed, Feb 23 2011 19:59:46 +0100 [...] Will install 0 packages, and remove 18 packages. 21.4 MB of disk space will be freed === [REMOVE, NOT USED] dnsmasq-base [REMOVE, NOT USED] libnm-glib-vpn1 [REMOVE, NOT USED] libpcsclite1 [REMOVE, NOT USED] libpkcs11-helper1 [REMOVE, NOT USED] modemmanager [REMOVE, NOT USED] network-manager-openvpn [REMOVE, NOT USED] network-manager-pptp [REMOVE, NOT USED] network-manager-vpnc [REMOVE, NOT USED] openssl-blacklist [REMOVE, NOT USED] openvpn [REMOVE, NOT USED] openvpn-blacklist [REMOVE, NOT USED] ppp [REMOVE, NOT USED] pptp-linux [REMOVE, NOT USED] tcl [REMOVE, NOT USED] usb-modeswitch [REMOVE, NOT USED] usb-modeswitch-data [REMOVE, NOT USED] vpnc [REMOVE, NOT USED] wpasupplicant === -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-edu-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110223194829.GA12780@flashgordon
