Re: emdebian project status
> >> * is emdebian integrated into the main archive? > > This is another question. I am myself against integration into Big Debian > for base packages -- that thing would involve lots of organisational stuff > which is hard to handle if you're not supported by kabal.. However, other > people expressed > lots of interest in "emdebian/ inside Debian source packages" approach > and cooperation > with Big Debian. Such a thing may be used for optional packages, but > I'm not sure > that would do for base. > >> * if yes, how is emdebian integrated into the source packages system? > > emdebian/ near debian/ in source packages is one possible approach. > Another one is to integrate directly into debian/ of packages that we're > interested at -- like, for example, > debian-installer people did. I think that separate emdebian/ has little chance to survive - because it's too much maintaince overhaed with too few interested people to handle that. Maybe a better thing is to introduce some sort of 'package build variants' concept into debian source packages. A package should have 1 or more build variant, and there should be a standard way to get available build variants and to choose one to build. In this approach, main debian package could use one variant, udeb - another one, emdebian - third one, and for some packages local admin may choose to use non-default variant. > Yes, for sure, policy is nearly a must. > >> * is now cross compiling handled with the normal dpkg-cross, an >> unofficial dpkg-cross, stag itself? >> * how do we cross compile in a debian way? > > As far as I understand, dpkg-cross is most-widely used cross-compilation > way for Debian packages between people somehow involved into this mailing > list :) However, for example, Nokia people use scratchbox as > cross-compilation environment for Debian packages that they use. > I would like to integrate both ways -- for example, make dpkg-cross play > nicely with scratchbox's binary_misc solution. Ok, I will look on that. The most difficult thing with dpkg-cross and cross-toolchain maintaince is almost no feedback, so I can only guess what to do with it next (and even it is useful at all). Currently, there are two pending things with dpkg-cross - to make it consistent with post-sarge dpkg and to integrate Raphael's apt work. Any other ideas / feature requests / etc would be very useful. Nikita -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: emdebian project status
On 7/21/05, Max Hofer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * how do we create a simple, minimalistic FS (in a Debian way)? What I like best is the Stag-like approach, which I also implemented for our internal embedded distribution. You have a couple of packages that constitute a base system, and you install them on the host system into rootfs tree using (possibly patched) dpkg with options like --admindir and --rootdir. The problem here is to decide on the base set of packages (Wookey should have an initial list that we compiled on debconf5, which looks quite good for that matter) and make them play nicely with each other. There are some problems involved in this approach that are connected to dpkg being not really designed for such usage: for example, maintainer scripts are run chroot'ed into rootdir, running shell and things like debconf inside -- but rootdir obviously contains other arch binaries.. > * is emdebian integrated into the main archive? This is another question. I am myself against integration into Big Debian for base packages -- that thing would involve lots of organisational stuff which is hard to handle if you're not supported by kabal.. However, other people expressed lots of interest in "emdebian/ inside Debian source packages" approach and cooperation with Big Debian. Such a thing may be used for optional packages, but I'm not sure that would do for base. > * if yes, how is emdebian integrated into the source packages system? emdebian/ near debian/ in source packages is one possible approach. Another one is to integrate directly into debian/ of packages that we're interested at -- like, for example, debian-installer people did. > * do we need a special EmDebian Guideline, because a lot of files which > have to be in a Debian package are completely pointless on an embedded > system (changelogs, copyright texts etc.)? Yes, for sure, policy is nearly a must. > * is now cross compiling handled with the normal dpkg-cross, an > unofficial dpkg-cross, stag itself? > * how do we cross compile in a debian way? As far as I understand, dpkg-cross is most-widely used cross-compilation way for Debian packages between people somehow involved into this mailing list :) However, for example, Nokia people use scratchbox as cross-compilation environment for Debian packages that they use. I would like to integrate both ways -- for example, make dpkg-cross play nicely with scratchbox's binary_misc solution. > What is my vision of Emdebian: Well, that looks more or less like my general view (except that I would propose to have binary archives also). But the devil, as always, is in the details.. -- Regards, Wartan.
Re: emdebian project status
Philippe De Swert wrote: > Hello all, > > On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 15:47 +0200, Fathi BOUDRA wrote: > >>>this is a major problem. There is no HowTo because the project is in an >>>early stage ... it under heavy development and I guess people like >>>rather to code than to write HowTos ;-) > > > Indeed we are trying to get something together > > >>it's not really active because it lacks of documentation. there isn't an easy >>way to try and test emdebian, not really user oriented. > > > The people working on this have been vastly overloaded with work on > other things which has been causing a more or less freeze on their > ability to work on this. Debconf has enabled us to have some discussions > about how to proceed and we are making plans now to be able to get this > going again. Hopefully we will be able to fix all the shortcomings (big > task) to make this a workable and usable project. I spoke with Wookey on the Debconf5. It seems the major problem is that the developers (which could contribute) do not know in which direction we are going. So they can not really contribute. We lack a bird's eye view to point people in the right direction. It would help massively if someone of the active people (the ones who know how the system is supposed to work) could make a short summary where we are going at the moment. The questions I have is: * how do we create a simple, minimalistic FS (in a Debian way)? * minimalistic base system? (remove of package dependencies which are not needed on an embedded device) * is emdebian integrated into the main archive? * if yes, how is emdebian integrated into the source packages system? * what about binary packages and repositories? * do we need a special EmDebian Guideline, because a lot of files which have to be in a Debian package are completely pointless on an embedded system (changelogs, copyright texts etc.)? With all the documentation I have I was not able to figure out: * what role the stag framework is playing * is now cross compiling handled with the normal dpkg-cross, an unofficial dpkg-cross, stag itself? * how do we cross compile in a debian way? What is my vision of Emdebian: a) select architecture (CPU) b) based on selection in a) a tool provides me a source package repository from which I can choose: * base system (pre selected) * desired packages (the number of packages would heavily depend on selection a) c) make source package selection d) create binary archive from this selection in c) which is stored as an archive on my machine (I assume making a binary archive for each of the architectures is not feasible) - this will take a long time when it is created the 1st time e) choose a selection from the set of binary packages in the local binary repository f) create root-FS like like debootstrap using the packages selected in e g) get kernel, tweak kernel parameters, kompile kernel, install kernel h) tweak system parameters (like mount points etc.) i) test system using a virtual machine (or the real hardware) regards Max -- Max Hofer APUS Software G.m.b.H. A-8074 Raaba, Bahnhofstraße 1/1 T| +43 316 401629 11 F| +43 316 401629 9 W| www.apus.co.at E| [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: emdebian project status
Hello all, On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 15:47 +0200, Fathi BOUDRA wrote: > > this is a major problem. There is no HowTo because the project is in an > > early stage ... it under heavy development and I guess people like > > rather to code than to write HowTos ;-) Indeed we are trying to get something together > > But be warned that it may be out of date. EmdebSys it is deprecated anyway. Correct. > it's not really active because it lacks of documentation. there isn't an easy > way to try and test emdebian, not really user oriented. The people working on this have been vastly overloaded with work on other things which has been causing a more or less freeze on their ability to work on this. Debconf has enabled us to have some discussions about how to proceed and we are making plans now to be able to get this going again. Hopefully we will be able to fix all the shortcomings (big task) to make this a workable and usable project. Cheers, Philippe PS: I would also like to thank Nikita for all the toolchain and multi-arch related work he has been doing lately. -- | Philippe De Swert | | Stag developer http://stag.mind.be/ | Emdebian developer: http://www.emdebian.org | | Please do not send me documents in a closed | format.(*.doc,*.xls,*.ppt) | Use the open alternatives. (*.pdf,*.ps,*.html,*.txt) | http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: emdebian project status
On 7/21/05, Nikita V. Youshchenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm afraid that project is almost dead - at least there is very little > mailing list activity over past months. This isn't true. People just develop things privately, and it is really hard to get opensource approval in, for example, my company. But I am going to, and I intend to join my efforts with emdebian very, very soon ;) -- Regards, Wartan.
Re: emdebian project status
> the debconf5 talks have a page on the wiki : > http://wiki.debian.net/?DebConf5Talks > > i found the video recording of the presentation : > http://dc5video.debian.net/2005-07-11/05-Embedded_Debian_Demo-Wookey.mpeg > > and the slide : > http://www.aleph1.co.uk/talks/emdebian/Debconf2005.pdf > > the pdf file seems to be broken ... > mistake, couldn't read with gv but could with kpdf. > >I'm afraid that project is almost dead - at least there is very little > >mailing list activity over past months. > > it's not really active because it lacks of documentation. there isn't an > easy way to try and test emdebian, not really user oriented. > > cheers > > Fathi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: emdebian project status
> Hello Fathi, > > this is a major problem. There is no HowTo because the project is in an > early stage ... it under heavy development and I guess people like > rather to code than to write HowTos ;-) > > For the Wookey article check > http://www.aleph1.co.uk/talks/emdebsys/ > > (I tried to add the link to the FAQ on the Wiki but I get an error > message saving the changes :-( ) > > But be warned that it may be out of date. EmdebSys it is deprecated anyway. > > Wookey made a presentation on the DebConf5 last week. I have no clue if > this presentation is already in the Web. > > Wookey could you place your presentation on the Wiki? > > You should take a look at the Stag project which you may find at > http://stag.mind.be/ > > There you find also better documentation. > > ragards Max the debconf5 talks have a page on the wiki : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebConf5Talks i found the video recording of the presentation : http://dc5video.debian.net/2005-07-11/05-Embedded_Debian_Demo-Wookey.mpeg and the slide : http://www.aleph1.co.uk/talks/emdebian/Debconf2005.pdf the pdf file seems to be broken ... >I'm afraid that project is almost dead - at least there is very little >mailing list activity over past months. it's not really active because it lacks of documentation. there isn't an easy way to try and test emdebian, not really user oriented. cheers Fathi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: emdebian project status
> this is a major problem. There is no HowTo because the project is in an > early stage ... it under heavy development and I guess people like > rather to code than to write HowTos ;-) I'm afraid that project is almost dead - at least there is very little mailing list activity over past months. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: emdebian project status
> I tried to use emdebian, tried to install the task-cross-* packages : > libstdc++2.10-dev-arm > libstdc++2.10-dev-powerpc > task-cross-arm > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) As for toolchain, try packages from deb http://zigzag.lvk.cs.msu.su/~nikita/debian sarge/ I'm not sure are those already on emdebian.org or not, but I believe this is "official" debian cross-toolchain. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: emdebian project status
Fathi Boudra wrote: > hi, > > i'm interrested in using emdebian in my company project (SBC card based on > STPC Elite uc). Actually, i use a "home made" system around uclibc,busybox > and RTAI. It works fine but difficult to maintain, add packages. > > I tried to use emdebian, tried to install the task-cross-* packages : > libstdc++2.10-dev-arm > libstdc++2.10-dev-powerpc > task-cross-arm > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) > > it seems to be broken. Also, i tried to access to the CVS : > cvs [login aborted]: connect to > cvs.emdebian.sourceforge.net(66.35.250.209):2401 failed: Connection timed out > > not better :) > > I found this on the website : > To get an understanding of what emdebsys does and how you use it, read > Wookey's article explaining how emdebsys works. It covers the configuration > and system generation, along with examples of the CML2 language and the > powerful way it lets you specify a system. > > no links and i didn't find your article. > > i could contribute to the project. First of all, the website lacks in > documentation/guide/howto, where can i start ? what can i do ? Hello Fathi, this is a major problem. There is no HowTo because the project is in an early stage ... it under heavy development and I guess people like rather to code than to write HowTos ;-) For the Wookey article check http://www.aleph1.co.uk/talks/emdebsys/ (I tried to add the link to the FAQ on the Wiki but I get an error message saving the changes :-( ) But be warned that it may be out of date. EmdebSys it is deprecated anyway. Wookey made a presentation on the DebConf5 last week. I have no clue if this presentation is already in the Web. Wookey could you place your presentation on the Wiki? You should take a look at the Stag project which you may find at http://stag.mind.be/ There you find also better documentation. ragards Max -- Max Hofer APUS Software G.m.b.H. A-8074 Raaba, Bahnhofstraße 1/1 T| +43 316 401629 11 F| +43 316 401629 9 W| www.apus.co.at E| [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
