Re: [draft] Debian/Hurd porters position in the default init system debate
Hi, Quoting Steven Chamberlain (2014-01-30 16:14:44) Since you didn't mention Upstart in this draft, may I ask your point of view on it? Is there any prospect/interest in using it on GNU/Hurd? I deliberately did not express any preference or mention neither upstart nor systemd. I'll update the draft to make that explicit: ~~ snip ~~~ We, the Debian/Hurd porters and developers, like to state our position in the current debate about the default init system for Debian. 0. We have no preference for either candidate for the default init system used by Debian. 1. Up to this day, Debian/Hurd has never used the current default init system (sysvinit) but has relied on its own init and rc system. We are prepared to use a non-default init system in the future. 2. We are currently switching to sysvinit for Debian/Hurd. All the Hurd patches are in place, patches for the sysvinit package are awaiting inclusion. 3. We ask that the current sysvinit-compatible init scripts are left in place, so that we can use sysvinit in the future. 4. We acknowledge that there is a maintenance cost involved with keeping the current init scripts. We will help maintain them as part of our porting effort. 5. We look forward to using OpenRC as incremental improvement. OpenRC complements sysvinit by replacing its rc component. Work has started to port OpenRC to Debian/Hurd and is progressing nicely. ~~ snip ~~~ Supporting an init system that is not portable (and I don't believe any init system is) and is written for another platform is a lot of work. We have done quite some work over the years to make the Hurd compatible enough to Linux (and sometimes we even have to cheat and lie a little to that end) to run various Linux software, including sysvinit. Eventually the Hurd will be compatible enough to run upstart or systemd if enough effort is put into that. I have no idea if this will ever happen. What if it becomes the default, or the second-most popular init system in Debian? Or if it is used by GNU/kFreeBSD for jessie? See point 1. The main benefit I see could be already-written job files, coming from Debian or Ubuntu, particularly if the package maintainer stops maintaining the sysvinit scripts. What is the benefit of already-written upstart job files over already-written sysvinit-compatible init scripts? Or over already-written systemd service files for that matter? Cheers, Justus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-hurd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140131105730.22446.57...@thinkbox.jade-hamburg.de
Re: [draft] Debian/Hurd porters position in the default init system debate
On 31/01/14 10:57, Justus Winter wrote: 1. Up to this day, Debian/Hurd has never used the current default init system (sysvinit) but has relied on its own init and rc system. We are prepared to use a non-default init system in the future. This will become increasingly difficult when SysV init scripts stop being maintained... and in new packages perhaps not provided at all. 3. We ask that the current sysvinit-compatible init scripts are left in place, so that we can use sysvinit in the future. Some maintainers want to discontinue providing sysvinit scripts right away. Policy *may* require them to do so for jessie, but likely not for jessie+1. 4. We acknowledge that there is a maintenance cost involved with keeping the current init scripts. We will help maintain them as part of our porting effort. I'd like for this work to be minimised by sharing across GNU/Hurd, kFreeBSD and even with GNU/Linux users who don't want to use the default init system. So, does this mean SysV init scripts are your preferred format? In which case it's not so important for the ports to choose the same init system, since anything can use these. But if for example you'd planned to maintain OpenRC-specific runscripts instead, that would be a reason for kFreeBSD to consider using OpenRC. Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-hurd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52eb9cd7.50...@pyro.eu.org
Re: [draft] Debian/Hurd porters position in the default init system debate
On Fri, 2014-01-31 at 12:53 +, Steven Chamberlain wrote: On 31/01/14 10:57, Justus Winter wrote: But if for example you'd planned to maintain OpenRC-specific runscripts instead, that would be a reason for kFreeBSD to consider using OpenRC. We are currently working on getting openrc to work properly on GNU/Hurd. Until now LSB (sysv init) scripts have been used, but that could change (eventually depending on the CTTE decision) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-hurd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1391174756.20080.44.ca...@g3620.my.own.domain
Re: [draft] Debian/Hurd porters position in the default init system debate
Justus Winter, le Fri 31 Jan 2014 11:57:30 +0100, a écrit : 2. We are currently switching to sysvinit for Debian/Hurd. All the Hurd patches are in place, patches for the sysvinit package are awaiting inclusion. They are included, and just awaiting upload now. Samuel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-hurd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140131183911.GA11961@type
Re: [draft] Debian/Hurd porters position in the default init system debate
Hi, Since you didn't mention Upstart in this draft, may I ask your point of view on it? Is there any prospect/interest in using it on GNU/Hurd? What if it becomes the default, or the second-most popular init system in Debian? Or if it is used by GNU/kFreeBSD for jessie? The main benefit I see could be already-written job files, coming from Debian or Ubuntu, particularly if the package maintainer stops maintaining the sysvinit scripts. Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-hurd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52ea6c64.6000...@pyro.eu.org
