Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 06:05:33PM +0200, David Zejda wrote: dunno. large messages obviously aren't the ONLY factor, it's a combination of factors - one of which is that the message is large. I have a similar (sometimes, large messages, dialup) problem with OE + Postfix. postfix doesn't do POP, that's the job of whatever POP daemon you're using. Yep, sure, thanks for correction. I'm using courier IMAP [+POP]. I only posted the message to give a support to assumption, that the problem is in O/OE rather then elsewhere (e.g. in Qmail)... David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
dunno. large messages obviously aren't the ONLY factor, it's a combination of factors - one of which is that the message is large. I have a similar (sometimes, large messages, dialup) problem with OE + Postfix. David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 06:05:33PM +0200, David Zejda wrote: dunno. large messages obviously aren't the ONLY factor, it's a combination of factors - one of which is that the message is large. I have a similar (sometimes, large messages, dialup) problem with OE + Postfix. postfix doesn't do POP, that's the job of whatever POP daemon you're using. craig -- craig sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] The next time you vote, remember that Regime change begins at home -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Kris Deugau wrote: Anil Gupte wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. This has happened across Novell IMS, qpopper, UW ipop3d, and Teapop. (In fact, that one Hotmail-originated message that *always* hung OE did so across all but qpopper (which was not in use at the time) *every* time.) Examining the raw message in the mailbox has turned up absolutely NOTHING any time I've met this. :( yep. it happens with any MTA and any POP daemon. that's because the problem is not in the message, the MTA or the POP daemon. it's in outlook. Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. The only thing I (or my boss) could ever even vaguely point to as a cause for the problem was OE's handling of attachments while it's downloading the message. We never found a real solution, except Don't do that. (ie, Warn people not to send you big attachments) almost right. the problem is that outlook is broken. it's broken in many ways but this specific problem is due to the fact that outlook locks up when downloading large messages. it doesn't have to be an attachment, if the message is too large, then outlook will hang. i don't recall exactly what the definition of large is, but in my experience even medium-length messages will trigger the bug. the only solution is to use a decent mail client. point customer at mozilla thunderbird (IIRC there *IS* a windoze version) - nice GUI mail client without outlook's stupid bugs and without outlook's stupid security holes. and it's free. if they don't like thunderbird there are many others to choose from, but the Golden Rule is Anything But Outlook!. alternatively, get used to occasionally having to manually delete large messages from the mailboxes of people who use outlook. craig -- craig sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] The next time you vote, remember that Regime change begins at home -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [mailinglists] Re: Outlook and Qmail
Hi, i remember that one of our custormers had the same problem. he couldnt connect his outlook to our qmail server, when the message was large. it happens with any MTA and any POP daemon. that's because the problem is not in the message, the MTA or the POP daemon. it's in outlook. no, it wasnt really in outlook, but in the underlying windows mail system. after several debugging sessions they called a windows specialist and he fixed some mysterious broken component in windows. after that, the problem never occoured again... if you like i can ask for the problem around. perhaps someone remembers the exact soloution... regards, philipp -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Outlook and Qmail
FWIW, Outlook fails the POP connection to my ISP, without proceeding to other messages, on all messages that are header-only with no payload, i.e., finish with a single blank line only. I don't know if these are 'valid' messages according to SMTP, but in any case I can see them through the web interface, and after I delete them through the web interface, Outlook is unblocked and able to download other messages. I have always imagined them to be spam attempts gone bad, shrugged my shoulders, and accepted their existence. They occur rarely, roughly one in 5000 messages. Peter K. Peter Klavins [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: John Gonzalez/netMDC admin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 23 July 2004 7:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Outlook and Qmail Do me a quick favor and when it happens, grep the message for three +++ signs together... if he's on a dialup modem, I have seen 3 plusses cause the modem to go into the 'guard' and 'hang' the email program. A long shot, but something worth looking into. On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 09:26:22PM -0400, Brian Franco wrote: I have the same problem with redhat sendmail and qpopper did you ever find a solution? Any help would be greatly appreciated I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. He has been using McAfee's SpamKiller, but now, even when he turns it off he has the same problem. He has even deleted his account and recreated it (this is a virtual domain, so he can login as Postmaster and do that). Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. Thanx, Anil Gupte -- John Gonzalez, Tularosa Communications | (505) 439-0200 work JG6416, ASN 11711, [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (505) 443-1228 fax http://www.tularosa.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Craig Sanders wrote: the problem is that outlook is broken. it's broken in many ways but this specific problem is due to the fact that outlook locks up when downloading large messages. it doesn't have to be an attachment, if the message is too large, then outlook will hang. i don't recall exactly what the definition of large is, but in my experience even medium-length messages will trigger the bug. Mmmh.. If it's inherently Outlook/Outlook Express, why do I have 3 or 4 customers who seem to spend their time sending and receiving ~5-7M video files by email? I've yet to find any one consistent This WILL cause a problem factor, although Outlook/OE are more likely to have trouble, and single large attachments or messages with several medium-large images attached are more likely to have trouble. The one exception I noted in my original reply was one particular message which even caused problems for the Novell IMS webmail client, caused Netscape 4.something to lock up when the message was opened- either via IMAP, or downloaded by POP3 and opened from a local folder, and even caused Pegasus Mail to behave a little oddly. That message happened to have been sent from a Hotmail account, but manual inspection showed absolutely NOTHING that should have caused this behaviour. the only solution is to use a decent mail client. point customer at mozilla thunderbird (IIRC there *IS* a windoze version) - nice GUI mail client without outlook's stupid bugs and without outlook's stupid security holes. and it's free. if they don't like thunderbird there are many others to choose from, but the Golden Rule is Anything But Outlook!. Indeed. One minor advantage I've found to Outlook Express (please note, very definitely *NOT* Outlook!) is that it does a *very* tidy job of sending email messages as attachments- right-click the message, Forward as attachment, and it creates a very well-formed MIME message suitable for extracting the original to feed back into a spam filter. The other advantage, from an ISP perspective, is that it's usually already there on a user's computer, and anything else requires hours and hours of download time, or a software CD for dialup users. :/ alternatively, get used to occasionally having to manually delete large messages from the mailboxes of people who use outlook. Or directing them to the webmail interface and letting them sort out their own mail. g -kgd -- Get your mouse off of there! You don't know where that email has been! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Friday 23 July 2004 17:12, Kris Deugau wrote: Craig Sanders wrote: the problem is that outlook is broken. it's broken in many ways but this specific problem is due to the fact that outlook locks up when downloading large messages. it doesn't have to be an attachment, if the message is too large, then outlook will hang. i don't recall exactly what the definition of large is, but in my experience even medium-length messages will trigger the bug. Mmmh.. If it's inherently Outlook/Outlook Express, why do I have 3 or 4 customers who seem to spend their time sending and receiving ~5-7M video files by email? I don't know anything about this specific problem, but you mustn't treat Outlook and Outlook express as the same in this regard. Although Microsoft has treated them both to a more or less similar GUI, I've read that both products are very different underneath. It was said that one, or both, were acquired from takeovers and that Outlook and OE have just about nothing in common. Or at least that's how it all started. Who knows what may have changed since then. So bugs in one are not at all certain to appear in the other (unless of course, it calls an ActiveX or IE function or so) Get your mouse off of there! You don't know where that email has been! Grin ;-) regards, Maarten -- Linux: Because rebooting is for adding hardware. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Somone wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, The only concrete case I've tracked down was Outlook choking on emails with non-ascii characters in the headers ... I don't recall the exact characters or circumstance. There was a patch to courier-imap/pop that solved the problem, not sure if that patch is integrated now or if it's in Debian's courier packages. The same issue might apply to other pop daemons? -- Fraser Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 11:12:06AM -0400, Kris Deugau wrote: Craig Sanders wrote: the problem is that outlook is broken. it's broken in many ways but this specific problem is due to the fact that outlook locks up when downloading large messages. it doesn't have to be an attachment, if the message is too large, then outlook will hang. i don't recall exactly what the definition of large is, but in my experience even medium-length messages will trigger the bug. Mmmh.. If it's inherently Outlook/Outlook Express, why do I have 3 or 4 customers who seem to spend their time sending and receiving ~5-7M video files by email? dunno. large messages obviously aren't the ONLY factor, it's a combination of factors - one of which is that the message is large. I've yet to find any one consistent This WILL cause a problem factor, although Outlook/OE are more likely to have trouble, and single large either have i, but since it only ever happens on Outlook and OE, it is an outlook problem. the bug may or may not be deep within windows, i don't know, but only outlook ever triggers it. the closest i have come to finding a cause is the observation that it happens on large messages but never on small ones. my guess is that some buffer used for POP downloading is overflowing. the only solution is to use a decent mail client. point customer at mozilla thunderbird (IIRC there *IS* a windoze version) - nice GUI [...] Anything But Outlook!. Indeed. One minor advantage I've found to Outlook Express (please note, very definitely *NOT* Outlook!) is that it does a *very* tidy job of it's just as broken as Outlook, it still has stupid bugs, and it is a security disaster. alternatively, get used to occasionally having to manually delete large messages from the mailboxes of people who use outlook. Or directing them to the webmail interface and letting them sort out their own mail. g that works too. -- Get your mouse off of there! You don't know where that email has been! with outlook, you don't even need to click on a message for a virus to install itself. the answer is still Don't use outlook. craig -- craig sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] The next time you vote, remember that Regime change begins at home -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
I have the same problem with redhat sendmail and qpopper did you ever find a solution? Any help would be greatly appreciated I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POPaccount, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since hecan delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue todownload messages. He has been using McAfee's SpamKiller, but now, evenwhen he turns it off he has the same problem. He has even deleted hisaccount and recreated it (this is a virtual domain, so he can login asPostmaster and do that).Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having thesame problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solutionyet. Any pointers will be appreciated.Thanx,Anil Gupte
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Do me a quick favor and when it happens, grep the message for three +++ signs together... if he's on a dialup modem, I have seen 3 plusses cause the modem to go into the 'guard' and 'hang' the email program. A long shot, but something worth looking into. On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 09:26:22PM -0400, Brian Franco wrote: I have the same problem with redhat sendmail and qpopper did you ever find a solution? Any help would be greatly appreciated I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. He has been using McAfee's SpamKiller, but now, even when he turns it off he has the same problem. He has even deleted his account and recreated it (this is a virtual domain, so he can login as Postmaster and do that). Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. Thanx, Anil Gupte -- John Gonzalez, Tularosa Communications | (505) 439-0200 work JG6416, ASN 11711, [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (505) 443-1228 fax http://www.tularosa.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:04, Anil Gupte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his Last time I checked the Qmail POP server would append a blank line to the end of each message. Not sure if it's related but it's something to investigate. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:04, Anil Gupte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his Last time I checked the Qmail POP server would append a blank line to the end of each message. Not sure if it's related but it's something to investigate. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Anil Gupte wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. Possible but unlikely- at one point I found a message which would *consistently* hang Outlook Express, but NOT Pegasus Mail, Netscape, or any other MUA I tried. Viewing the message in the webmail system in use at the time worked fine as well. Since then I've had cusomters calling in with similar behaviour from the occasional message - more commonly a large message with several large images, or a video file attached, but occasionally just a short text message as well. Again, Outlook Express (and in some cases, the customer's MS Outlook) will hang on one particular message, but no other MUA does. This has happened across Novell IMS, qpopper, UW ipop3d, and Teapop. (In fact, that one Hotmail-originated message that *always* hung OE did so across all but qpopper (which was not in use at the time) *every* time.) Examining the raw message in the mailbox has turned up absolutely NOTHING any time I've met this. :( Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. The only thing I (or my boss) could ever even vaguely point to as a cause for the problem was OE's handling of attachments while it's downloading the message. We never found a real solution, except Don't do that. (ie, Warn people not to send you big attachments) -kgd support/sysadmin for ViaNet Pembroke (formerly WebHart Internet) -- Sendmail administration is not black magic. There are legitimate technical reasons why it requires the sacrificing of a live chicken. - Unknown -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Outlook and Qmail
Anil Gupte wrote: I am having a problem with one of my customers who is using Outlook 2000 SP-3 to connect to our Qmail server. When downloading messages from his POP account, Outlook will hang. It is most likely a corrupted message, since he can delete the messages using a webmail interface, and then continue to download messages. Possible but unlikely- at one point I found a message which would *consistently* hang Outlook Express, but NOT Pegasus Mail, Netscape, or any other MUA I tried. Viewing the message in the webmail system in use at the time worked fine as well. Since then I've had cusomters calling in with similar behaviour from the occasional message - more commonly a large message with several large images, or a video file attached, but occasionally just a short text message as well. Again, Outlook Express (and in some cases, the customer's MS Outlook) will hang on one particular message, but no other MUA does. This has happened across Novell IMS, qpopper, UW ipop3d, and Teapop. (In fact, that one Hotmail-originated message that *always* hung OE did so across all but qpopper (which was not in use at the time) *every* time.) Examining the raw message in the mailbox has turned up absolutely NOTHING any time I've met this. :( Has anyone run into this problem? I know at least one other ISP having the same problem with some of his customers, but we have not found a solution yet. Any pointers will be appreciated. The only thing I (or my boss) could ever even vaguely point to as a cause for the problem was OE's handling of attachments while it's downloading the message. We never found a real solution, except Don't do that. (ie, Warn people not to send you big attachments) -kgd support/sysadmin for ViaNet Pembroke (formerly WebHart Internet) -- Sendmail administration is not black magic. There are legitimate technical reasons why it requires the sacrificing of a live chicken. - Unknown
