Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
Thomas Lamy wrote: [..] Who needs disks nowadays, anyway? Each and every system one may buy today either has a CD-/DVD-ROM drive to boot from, or you can plug one temporarily for installation. Hey! just yesterday i had to install debian on a 486 with 96000 kbytes hard disk without a cd reader. Believe me: boot-floopies are kinda magical. That was a PITA so stop complaining about NIC drivers :) Regards -- Daniel H. Perez a veces Tango danielpATlinuxPUNTOorgPUNTOar Fui lo que crei, soy lo que esta pasando (Charly Garcia) Debian GNU/Linux Sid (2.4.21) Usuario Reg. N. 85920 GnuPG Public Key 0x63DCB648 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
Thomas Lamy wrote: [..] Who needs disks nowadays, anyway? Each and every system one may buy today either has a CD-/DVD-ROM drive to boot from, or you can plug one temporarily for installation. Hey! just yesterday i had to install debian on a 486 with 96000 kbytes hard disk without a cd reader. Believe me: boot-floopies are kinda magical. That was a PITA so stop complaining about NIC drivers :) Regards -- Daniel H. Perez a veces Tango danielpATlinuxPUNTOorgPUNTOar Fui lo que crei, soy lo que esta pasando (Charly Garcia) Debian GNU/Linux Sid (2.4.21) Usuario Reg. N. 85920 GnuPG Public Key 0x63DCB648
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 04:33:18PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: #include hallo.h * Jason Lim [Wed, Jul 02 2003, 10:51:35PM]: Nowadays, many motherboards have built-in ethernet ports. The most common seem to be either the SiS chipset (SIS900) or Intel's one (don't know what model number... but i think eepro or something?) Realtek is the most common PCI one... virtually all cheap PCI LAN cards have Realtek chipsets. All mentioned cards are supported by the bf2.4 kernel or will be supported by the next generations of boot-floppies. What is your problem? The broadcom things are not supported just because the stupid drivers are not part of the normal vanilla kernel. Can you be more specific about broadcom drivers (the red hat bug report wasn't). I had a heck of a time installing on a dell laptop which required a pcmcia card to get the install along enough to download a kernel and Xfree, I bet the linux broadcom net driver was on a cd though. here's a rough write up http://galis.org/doc/dell.inspiron.1100.html (with references to RH bugzilla) Just as frustrating (and I don't know the timetable with the bf2.4 and realtek drivers) is the missing realtek, I have a 'bunch' of realtek cards I picked up for $5 each, but I have to put in a tulip card to get through the install. Realtek is in next boot floppies, great. In the next gen boot floppies I would suggest making one for each type of driver, eg all the drivers/net might fit on one, so people using floppies don't need the whole set; also why not make all or virtually all the modules under such a system. If somebody has disk space issues they can rm unneeded ones before they continue the install. Plus a 20Mb install cdrom that works with virtually everything would be okay. (actually install disk driver issues kept me away from debian for over a year.) // George -- GEORGE GEORGALIS, System Admin/Architectcell: 646-331-2027IXOYE Security Services, Web, Mail,mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Multimedia, DB, DNS and Metrics. http://www.galis.org/george -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 04:33:18PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: #include hallo.h * Jason Lim [Wed, Jul 02 2003, 10:51:35PM]: Nowadays, many motherboards have built-in ethernet ports. The most common seem to be either the SiS chipset (SIS900) or Intel's one (don't know what model number... but i think eepro or something?) Realtek is the most common PCI one... virtually all cheap PCI LAN cards have Realtek chipsets. All mentioned cards are supported by the bf2.4 kernel or will be supported by the next generations of boot-floppies. What is your problem? The broadcom things are not supported just because the stupid drivers are not part of the normal vanilla kernel. Can you be more specific about broadcom drivers (the red hat bug report wasn't). I had a heck of a time installing on a dell laptop which required a pcmcia card to get the install along enough to download a kernel and Xfree, I bet the linux broadcom net driver was on a cd though. here's a rough write up http://galis.org/doc/dell.inspiron.1100.html (with references to RH bugzilla) Just as frustrating (and I don't know the timetable with the bf2.4 and realtek drivers) is the missing realtek, I have a 'bunch' of realtek cards I picked up for $5 each, but I have to put in a tulip card to get through the install. Realtek is in next boot floppies, great. In the next gen boot floppies I would suggest making one for each type of driver, eg all the drivers/net might fit on one, so people using floppies don't need the whole set; also why not make all or virtually all the modules under such a system. If somebody has disk space issues they can rm unneeded ones before they continue the install. Plus a 20Mb install cdrom that works with virtually everything would be okay. (actually install disk driver issues kept me away from debian for over a year.) // George -- GEORGE GEORGALIS, System Admin/Architectcell: 646-331-2027IXOYE Security Services, Web, Mail,mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Multimedia, DB, DNS and Metrics. http://www.galis.org/george
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
#include hallo.h * Jason Lim [Wed, Jul 02 2003, 10:51:35PM]: Nowadays, many motherboards have built-in ethernet ports. The most common seem to be either the SiS chipset (SIS900) or Intel's one (don't know what model number... but i think eepro or something?) Realtek is the most common PCI one... virtually all cheap PCI LAN cards have Realtek chipsets. All mentioned cards are supported by the bf2.4 kernel or will be supported by the next generations of boot-floppies. What is your problem? The broadcom things are not supported just because the stupid drivers are not part of the normal vanilla kernel. Not THAT many. Actually, I like the way Redhat does it. IMHO Redhat has one of the best installation procedures going. With the 3ware card installed, it automatically loads up the 3w.o (i think that's what it's called?). bf2.4 loads the 3ware driver. Some exotic controllers are only supported if you insert a module-preload disk with scsi drivers and load them manually. There is no good way to fix it, we cannot include every driver on _one_ floppy. MfG, Eduard. -- cray knopper wie ich mitbekommen habe hast du irgendwie etwas mit knoppix zu tun, .. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
Hi Eduard, Nowadays, many motherboards have built-in ethernet ports. The most common seem to be either the SiS chipset (SIS900) or Intel's one (don't know what model number... but i think eepro or something?) Realtek is the most common PCI one... virtually all cheap PCI LAN cards have Realtek chipsets. All mentioned cards are supported by the bf2.4 kernel or will be supported by the next generations of boot-floppies. What is your problem? The broadcom things are not supported just because the stupid drivers are not part of the normal vanilla kernel. Never heard of broadcom on a motherboard... never used one... never seen one... so no complaints from me. I just hope the boot floppies in the next stable version will support these very common chipsets, because i remember when installing the current stable, it is a headache. Not THAT many. Actually, I like the way Redhat does it. IMHO Redhat has one of the best installation procedures going. With the 3ware card installed, it automatically loads up the 3w.o (i think that's what it's called?). bf2.4 loads the 3ware driver. Some exotic controllers are only supported if you insert a module-preload disk with scsi drivers and load them manually. There is no good way to fix it, we cannot include every driver on _one_ floppy. Perhaps have the one floppy detect what is needed, and then direct the user to either download/insert the other relevent driver disk? Bah, you guys know more about this stuff. I'm just a sysadmin that uses it... so not sure if it is even possible... or advantageous, to have a detection thing tell the user to download a certain driver to a disk. maybe the detection routines would be too long/big/complicated? I think there is a hardware detection project already? MfG, Eduard. -- cray knopper wie ich mitbekommen habe hast du irgendwie etwas mit knoppix zu tun, .. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
Jason Lim wrote: Hi Eduard, Nowadays, many motherboards have built-in ethernet ports. The most common seem to be either the SiS chipset (SIS900) or Intel's one (don't know what model number... but i think eepro or something?) Realtek is the most common PCI one... virtually all cheap PCI LAN cards have Realtek chipsets. All mentioned cards are supported by the bf2.4 kernel or will be supported by the next generations of boot-floppies. What is your problem? The broadcom things are not supported just because the stupid drivers are not part of the normal vanilla kernel. AFAIR Realtek support is compiled into bf24. Never heard of broadcom on a motherboard... never used one... never seen one... so no complaints from me. I just hope the boot floppies in the next stable version will support these very common chipsets, because i remember when installing the current stable, it is a headache. Me too (tm). Never heard/used broadcom. If space permits, I would also like to see the e100 and 3c59x drivers compiled into bf24. I'd rather have some kind of bootable ISO where one could manually load modules from, instead of using an ext2 floppy. I got around that on some weird system by creating a ramdisk, extract drivers.tgz from the cd, and load the module manually, but that sux. Anyway, the sarge installer isn't nearly as comfortable as woody's. I tried it 2 times, because all my systems run sarge now. Haven't found some nice how-to to build my own basedebs-iso (I'd like to build one with the woddy installer, but for installing a basic sarge)... Not THAT many. Actually, I like the way Redhat does it. IMHO Redhat has one of the best installation procedures going. With the 3ware card installed, it automatically loads up the 3w.o (i think that's what it's called?). AFAIR the sarge installer has some nice hardware detection module. Didn't try it on some weird/unusual/pro hardware though. bf2.4 loads the 3ware driver. Some exotic controllers are only supported if you insert a module-preload disk with scsi drivers and load them manually. There is no good way to fix it, we cannot include every driver on _one_ floppy. I had no problems installing woody on a 3ware 7400 controller-based system. Perhaps have the one floppy detect what is needed, and then direct the user to either download/insert the other relevent driver disk? Who needs disks nowadays, anyway? Each and every system one may buy today either has a CD-/DVD-ROM drive to boot from, or you can plug one temporarily for installation. Bah, you guys know more about this stuff. I'm just a sysadmin that uses it... so not sure if it is even possible... or advantageous, to have a detection thing tell the user to download a certain driver to a disk. maybe the detection routines would be too long/big/complicated? I think there is a hardware detection project already? Try a recent copy of the sarge installer. Not nearly finished, but enough to get the idea. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
#include hallo.h * Jason Lim [Wed, Jul 02 2003, 10:51:35PM]: Nowadays, many motherboards have built-in ethernet ports. The most common seem to be either the SiS chipset (SIS900) or Intel's one (don't know what model number... but i think eepro or something?) Realtek is the most common PCI one... virtually all cheap PCI LAN cards have Realtek chipsets. All mentioned cards are supported by the bf2.4 kernel or will be supported by the next generations of boot-floppies. What is your problem? The broadcom things are not supported just because the stupid drivers are not part of the normal vanilla kernel. Not THAT many. Actually, I like the way Redhat does it. IMHO Redhat has one of the best installation procedures going. With the 3ware card installed, it automatically loads up the 3w.o (i think that's what it's called?). bf2.4 loads the 3ware driver. Some exotic controllers are only supported if you insert a module-preload disk with scsi drivers and load them manually. There is no good way to fix it, we cannot include every driver on _one_ floppy. MfG, Eduard. -- cray knopper wie ich mitbekommen habe hast du irgendwie etwas mit knoppix zu tun, ..
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
Hi Eduard, Nowadays, many motherboards have built-in ethernet ports. The most common seem to be either the SiS chipset (SIS900) or Intel's one (don't know what model number... but i think eepro or something?) Realtek is the most common PCI one... virtually all cheap PCI LAN cards have Realtek chipsets. All mentioned cards are supported by the bf2.4 kernel or will be supported by the next generations of boot-floppies. What is your problem? The broadcom things are not supported just because the stupid drivers are not part of the normal vanilla kernel. Never heard of broadcom on a motherboard... never used one... never seen one... so no complaints from me. I just hope the boot floppies in the next stable version will support these very common chipsets, because i remember when installing the current stable, it is a headache. Not THAT many. Actually, I like the way Redhat does it. IMHO Redhat has one of the best installation procedures going. With the 3ware card installed, it automatically loads up the 3w.o (i think that's what it's called?). bf2.4 loads the 3ware driver. Some exotic controllers are only supported if you insert a module-preload disk with scsi drivers and load them manually. There is no good way to fix it, we cannot include every driver on _one_ floppy. Perhaps have the one floppy detect what is needed, and then direct the user to either download/insert the other relevent driver disk? Bah, you guys know more about this stuff. I'm just a sysadmin that uses it... so not sure if it is even possible... or advantageous, to have a detection thing tell the user to download a certain driver to a disk. maybe the detection routines would be too long/big/complicated? I think there is a hardware detection project already? MfG, Eduard. -- cray knopper wie ich mitbekommen habe hast du irgendwie etwas mit knoppix zu tun, .. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
Jason Lim wrote: Hi Eduard, Nowadays, many motherboards have built-in ethernet ports. The most common seem to be either the SiS chipset (SIS900) or Intel's one (don't know what model number... but i think eepro or something?) Realtek is the most common PCI one... virtually all cheap PCI LAN cards have Realtek chipsets. All mentioned cards are supported by the bf2.4 kernel or will be supported by the next generations of boot-floppies. What is your problem? The broadcom things are not supported just because the stupid drivers are not part of the normal vanilla kernel. AFAIR Realtek support is compiled into bf24. Never heard of broadcom on a motherboard... never used one... never seen one... so no complaints from me. I just hope the boot floppies in the next stable version will support these very common chipsets, because i remember when installing the current stable, it is a headache. Me too (tm). Never heard/used broadcom. If space permits, I would also like to see the e100 and 3c59x drivers compiled into bf24. I'd rather have some kind of bootable ISO where one could manually load modules from, instead of using an ext2 floppy. I got around that on some weird system by creating a ramdisk, extract drivers.tgz from the cd, and load the module manually, but that sux. Anyway, the sarge installer isn't nearly as comfortable as woody's. I tried it 2 times, because all my systems run sarge now. Haven't found some nice how-to to build my own basedebs-iso (I'd like to build one with the woddy installer, but for installing a basic sarge)... Not THAT many. Actually, I like the way Redhat does it. IMHO Redhat has one of the best installation procedures going. With the 3ware card installed, it automatically loads up the 3w.o (i think that's what it's called?). AFAIR the sarge installer has some nice hardware detection module. Didn't try it on some weird/unusual/pro hardware though. bf2.4 loads the 3ware driver. Some exotic controllers are only supported if you insert a module-preload disk with scsi drivers and load them manually. There is no good way to fix it, we cannot include every driver on _one_ floppy. I had no problems installing woody on a 3ware 7400 controller-based system. Perhaps have the one floppy detect what is needed, and then direct the user to either download/insert the other relevent driver disk? Who needs disks nowadays, anyway? Each and every system one may buy today either has a CD-/DVD-ROM drive to boot from, or you can plug one temporarily for installation. Bah, you guys know more about this stuff. I'm just a sysadmin that uses it... so not sure if it is even possible... or advantageous, to have a detection thing tell the user to download a certain driver to a disk. maybe the detection routines would be too long/big/complicated? I think there is a hardware detection project already? Try a recent copy of the sarge installer. Not nearly finished, but enough to get the idea. Thomas
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 10:46:27AM +0800, Jason Lim wrote: - Original Message - From: Andrew Miehs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 27 June, 2003 6:36 PM Subject: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21 I need to compile a 2.4.21 Kernel for Woody. Which version of GCC should I use... GCC3 or GCC2.95? Should I download standard kernel src - or should I get it from testing, or unstable? Well, it's up to you. Debian makes a few mods to the kernel, but we usually download from www.kernel.org directly (we compile in the 3ware driver). Either way would work, depending on your needs. With that, I would like to voice an opinion about the debian 2.4bf kernels. Make the distro with lots of common eth drivers! It is a major PITA installing without them. It is quite typical that I go to a site and have them make a 10Mb debian install CD from which I build a complete system using their network connection. However the debian kernel is missing many net drivers. I'm speaking particularly of the drivers required for many of the modern integrated interfaces. Realtek and Broadcom (though that is not part of the 2.4 kernels, last I checked) are the first to come to mind. My point is having _most_ of the network drivers available as modules _is_a_good_thing_ (tm). It's a royal pain building a system when you must temporarily add a pci or pcmcia interface to download source to compile for integrated interfaces. I don't know if the issue steams from different kinds of network interfaces and isp connections in Europe verses USA, but I for one would really appreciate some more eth drivers in the Debian kernels. If there is any question of which 10% more interfaces would be good to add, please let me know, on or off list. // George -- GEORGE GEORGALIS, System Admin/Architectcell: 646-331-2027IXOYE Security Services, Web, Mail,mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Multimedia, DB, DNS and Metrics. http://www.galis.org/george -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 10:46:27AM +0800, Jason Lim wrote: - Original Message - From: Andrew Miehs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-isp@lists.debian.org Sent: Friday, 27 June, 2003 6:36 PM Subject: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21 I need to compile a 2.4.21 Kernel for Woody. Which version of GCC should I use... GCC3 or GCC2.95? Should I download standard kernel src - or should I get it from testing, or unstable? Well, it's up to you. Debian makes a few mods to the kernel, but we usually download from www.kernel.org directly (we compile in the 3ware driver). Either way would work, depending on your needs. With that, I would like to voice an opinion about the debian 2.4bf kernels. Make the distro with lots of common eth drivers! It is a major PITA installing without them. It is quite typical that I go to a site and have them make a 10Mb debian install CD from which I build a complete system using their network connection. However the debian kernel is missing many net drivers. I'm speaking particularly of the drivers required for many of the modern integrated interfaces. Realtek and Broadcom (though that is not part of the 2.4 kernels, last I checked) are the first to come to mind. My point is having _most_ of the network drivers available as modules _is_a_good_thing_ (tm). It's a royal pain building a system when you must temporarily add a pci or pcmcia interface to download source to compile for integrated interfaces. I don't know if the issue steams from different kinds of network interfaces and isp connections in Europe verses USA, but I for one would really appreciate some more eth drivers in the Debian kernels. If there is any question of which 10% more interfaces would be good to add, please let me know, on or off list. // George -- GEORGE GEORGALIS, System Admin/Architectcell: 646-331-2027IXOYE Security Services, Web, Mail,mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Multimedia, DB, DNS and Metrics. http://www.galis.org/george
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
Make the distro with lots of common eth drivers! Fully agree. Nowadays, many motherboards have built-in ethernet ports. The most common seem to be either the SiS chipset (SIS900) or Intel's one (don't know what model number... but i think eepro or something?) Realtek is the most common PCI one... virtually all cheap PCI LAN cards have Realtek chipsets. Then you got the common ones used by many larger manufactureres... 3com... Intel (again)... Not THAT many. Actually, I like the way Redhat does it. IMHO Redhat has one of the best installation procedures going. With the 3ware card installed, it automatically loads up the 3w.o (i think that's what it's called?). And if you think it's a headache installing without the network interface, you ain't had fun without the disk driver like 3ware. That means you either got to make a custom installation kernel, or install to a regular IDE HD, then copy everything over to the 3ware RAID. PITA. It is a major PITA installing without them. It is quite typical that I go to a site and have them make a 10Mb debian install CD from which I build a complete system using their network connection. However the debian kernel is missing many net drivers. I'm speaking particularly of the drivers required for many of the modern integrated interfaces. Realtek and Broadcom (though that is not part of the 2.4 kernels, last I checked) are the first to come to mind. Just like Redhat, aye? My point is having _most_ of the network drivers available as modules _is_a_good_thing_ (tm). It's a royal pain building a system when you must temporarily add a pci or pcmcia interface to download source to compile for integrated interfaces. Yeap yeap... like the way Redhat does it. I don't know if the issue steams from different kinds of network interfaces and isp connections in Europe verses USA, but I for one would really appreciate some more eth drivers in the Debian kernels. If there is any question of which 10% more interfaces would be good to add, please let me know, on or off list. And some of the popular RAID hardware too.
Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
Hi all! I need to compile a 2.4.21 Kernel for Woody. Which version of GCC should I use... GCC3 or GCC2.95? Should I download standard kernel src - or should I get it from testing, or unstable? Thanks for your help Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
- Original Message - From: Andrew Miehs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 27 June, 2003 6:36 PM Subject: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21 Hi all! I need to compile a 2.4.21 Kernel for Woody. Which version of GCC should I use... GCC3 or GCC2.95? Should I download standard kernel src - or should I get it from testing, or unstable? Well, it's up to you. Debian makes a few mods to the kernel, but we usually download from www.kernel.org directly (we compile in the 3ware driver). Either way would work, depending on your needs. Thanks for your help Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
Hi all! I need to compile a 2.4.21 Kernel for Woody. Which version of GCC should I use... GCC3 or GCC2.95? Should I download standard kernel src - or should I get it from testing, or unstable? Thanks for your help Andrew
Re: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21
- Original Message - From: Andrew Miehs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-isp@lists.debian.org Sent: Friday, 27 June, 2003 6:36 PM Subject: Woody Stable and Kernel 2.4.21 Hi all! I need to compile a 2.4.21 Kernel for Woody. Which version of GCC should I use... GCC3 or GCC2.95? Should I download standard kernel src - or should I get it from testing, or unstable? Well, it's up to you. Debian makes a few mods to the kernel, but we usually download from www.kernel.org directly (we compile in the 3ware driver). Either way would work, depending on your needs. Thanks for your help Andrew
