Re: [Debian Wiki] Update of "Java" by HenningSprang

[Andrew Haley]

Michael Koch writes:
 > On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 01:27:22PM +0200, Henning Sprang wrote:
 > > Michael Koch wrote:
 > > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 12:28:09PM +0200, Arnaud Vandyck wrote:
 > > >> Am I missing something? Isn't Sun's Java 6 in Debian still in non-free?!
 > > > It is. And it will never move to main. Someone should revert this change
 > > > to old text which is more clear, IMO.
 > > 
 > > Please look at the Wiki page the edited sentence described, first.
 > > 
 > > The link this sentence is describing is not about Java 6 in particular,
 > > and the link to NonFree was broken, so I removed it, and made the
 > > sentence  more generic.
 > > 
 > > The OpenJDK the linked page is describing will not be in non-free for a
 > > very long time, I guess, but in contrib, I guess?
 > 
 > There is still a long road to get this into main. Many legal issues need
 > to be solved first.

OpenJDK will never be in non-free, ever.  OpenJDK is free software.

 > > It might a different case with a binary distribution of suns jdk (will
 > > that be available as deb in parallell toi the really gpl free jdk?)
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Tell me what you think and I'll change it to fit your tastes -
 > > currently, saying "it is in Debian" is not exactly wrong.
 > 
 > It is. Quoting the Debian Policy:
 > 
 > "Packages in the other distribution areas (contrib, non-free) are not
 > considered to be part of the Debian distribution, although we support
 > their use and provide infrastructure for them (such as our bug-tracking
 > system and mailing lists)."

[ OT: What a nasty us of the passive voice.  "Not considered to be
part of the Debian distribution" by whom?  It would have been so easy
to say "Packages in the other distribution areas (contrib, non-free)
are not part of the Debian distribution."  Even "We do not consider
packages in the other distribution areas (contrib, non-free) to be
part of the Debian distribution" would have been better.  :-) ]

Andrew.

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Re: [Debian Wiki] Update of "Java" by HenningSprang

[Arnaud Vandyck]

On 7/19/07, Michael Koch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 03:49:03PM +0200, Henning Sprang wrote:

[...]

> (I'm trying to invest some time everytime I have some left to get that
> cleaned up)
That work is really needed. Thanks for taking a stab on this.


Henning,

Your work is *really* needed and *really* appreciated. Don't hesitate
to make changes, ask the list and so. And if you make something wrong,
we follow the changes of the wiki and we can send a mail to correct
the wiki (like I did).

Once again, many thanks for your work.

Cheers,

--
Arnaud Vandyck


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Re: [Debian Wiki] Update of "Java" by HenningSprang

[Michael Koch]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 03:49:03PM +0200, Henning Sprang wrote:
> Michael Koch wrote:
> >> --
> >>* ["JVM"], ["JRE"] and ["SDK"] (TODO: these might all be removed, or 
> >> redirected to this page here?!)
> >>   
> >>   == Java from Sun ==
> >> +  * ["Java/Sun"] - some info about the openjdk in debian
> >> -  * ["Java/Sun"] - Sun's Implementation is available in Debian
> >> +  * SunJava - Sun's Implementation is available in Debian non-free
> >> -  * SunJava
> > 
> > I think this one of the most misleading parts in our wiki.
> > 
> 
> If you want to settle on exactly one of the
> misleading/inconsistent/redundant parts, maybe :)
> 
> (I'm trying to invest some time everytime I have some left to get that
> cleaned up)

That work is really needed. Thanks for taking a stab on this.

> > I dont know if that is possible but Java/SUN should be renamed to
> > Java/OpenJDK 
> 
> Yes it should, I'll check if it's possible.

Thanks.

> > and SunJava should be renamed to Java/SUN. 
> 
> Yes, to have it in the Java hierarchy of the wiki. There are more pages
> linked from tha main Java page which fall into this category.

Thanks again for doing this type of work. Its really appreciated.

> > And Iwould not
> > keep OpenJDK under "Java from SUN".
> > OpenJDK is/will be a community project with SUN as its most prominent
> > member. That doesnt mean its SUN only anymore.
> 
> Yes, OpenJDK is community, adn this is what is targetted to package for
> main.
> 
> But there will probably( I rather ask but state this here) always be
> some binary jdk/jre distribution from sun (which will ever be in
> non-free, as an updated version to what they have now in version 5 and 6.

There will for sure. It would be bad if not.


Cheers,
Michael
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Re: [Debian Wiki] Update of "Java" by HenningSprang

[Henning Sprang]

Michael Koch wrote:
>> --
>>* ["JVM"], ["JRE"] and ["SDK"] (TODO: these might all be removed, or 
>> redirected to this page here?!)
>>   
>>   == Java from Sun ==
>> +  * ["Java/Sun"] - some info about the openjdk in debian
>> -  * ["Java/Sun"] - Sun's Implementation is available in Debian
>> +  * SunJava - Sun's Implementation is available in Debian non-free
>> -  * SunJava
> 
> I think this one of the most misleading parts in our wiki.
> 

If you want to settle on exactly one of the
misleading/inconsistent/redundant parts, maybe :)

(I'm trying to invest some time everytime I have some left to get that
cleaned up)

> I dont know if that is possible but Java/SUN should be renamed to
> Java/OpenJDK 

Yes it should, I'll check if it's possible.

> and SunJava should be renamed to Java/SUN. 

Yes, to have it in the Java hierarchy of the wiki. There are more pages
linked from tha main Java page which fall into this category.

> And Iwould not
> keep OpenJDK under "Java from SUN".
> OpenJDK is/will be a community project with SUN as its most prominent
> member. That doesnt mean its SUN only anymore.

Yes, OpenJDK is community, adn this is what is targetted to package for
main.

But there will probably( I rather ask but state this here) always be
some binary jdk/jre distribution from sun (which will ever be in
non-free, as an updated version to what they have now in version 5 and 6.

Henning






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Re: [Debian Wiki] Update of "Java" by HenningSprang

[Michael Koch]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 01:18:45PM -, Debian Wiki wrote:
> Dear Wiki user,
> 
> You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Debian Wiki" for 
> change notification.
> 
> The following page has been changed by HenningSprang:
> http://wiki.debian.org/Java
> 
> --
>* ["JVM"], ["JRE"] and ["SDK"] (TODO: these might all be removed, or 
> redirected to this page here?!)
>   
>   == Java from Sun ==
> +  * ["Java/Sun"] - some info about the openjdk in debian
> -  * ["Java/Sun"] - Sun's Implementation is available in Debian
> +  * SunJava - Sun's Implementation is available in Debian non-free
> -  * SunJava

I think this one of the most misleading parts in our wiki.

I dont know if that is possible but Java/SUN should be renamed to
Java/OpenJDK and SunJava should be renamed to Java/SUN. And Iwould not
keep OpenJDK under "Java from SUN".

OpenJDK is/will be a community project with SUN as its most prominent
member. That doesnt mean its SUN only anymore.


Cheers,
Michael
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`. `'   |
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Re: [Debian Wiki] Update of "Java" by HenningSprang

[Michael Koch]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 01:27:22PM +0200, Henning Sprang wrote:
> Michael Koch wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 12:28:09PM +0200, Arnaud Vandyck wrote:
> >> Am I missing something? Isn't Sun's Java 6 in Debian still in non-free?!
> > It is. And it will never move to main. Someone should revert this change
> > to old text which is more clear, IMO.
> 
> Please look at the Wiki page the edited sentence described, first.
> 
> The link this sentence is describing is not about Java 6 in particular,
> and the link to NonFree was broken, so I removed it, and made the
> sentence  more generic.
> 
> The OpenJDK the linked page is describing will not be in non-free for a
> very long time, I guess, but in contrib, I guess?

There is still a long road to get this into main. Many legal issues need
to be solved first.

> It might a different case with a binary distribution of suns jdk (will
> that be available as deb in parallell toi the really gpl free jdk?)
> 
> 
> Tell me what you think and I'll change it to fit your tastes -
> currently, saying "it is in Debian" is not exactly wrong.

It is. Quoting the Debian Policy:

"Packages in the other distribution areas (contrib, non-free) are not
considered to be part of the Debian distribution, although we support
their use and provide infrastructure for them (such as our bug-tracking
system and mailing lists)."


Cheers,
Michael
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Re: [Debian Wiki] Update of "Java" by HenningSprang

[Henning Sprang]

Michael Koch wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 12:28:09PM +0200, Arnaud Vandyck wrote:
>> Am I missing something? Isn't Sun's Java 6 in Debian still in non-free?!
> It is. And it will never move to main. Someone should revert this change
> to old text which is more clear, IMO.

Please look at the Wiki page the edited sentence described, first.

The link this sentence is describing is not about Java 6 in particular,
and the link to NonFree was broken, so I removed it, and made the
sentence  more generic.

The OpenJDK the linked page is describing will not be in non-free for a
very long time, I guess, but in contrib, I guess?

It might a different case with a binary distribution of suns jdk (will
that be available as deb in parallell toi the really gpl free jdk?)


Tell me what you think and I'll change it to fit your tastes -
currently, saying "it is in Debian" is not exactly wrong.

Henning


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Re: [Debian Wiki] Update of "Java" by HenningSprang

[Michael Koch]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 12:28:09PM +0200, Arnaud Vandyck wrote:
> Am I missing something? Isn't Sun's Java 6 in Debian still in non-free?!

It is. And it will never move to main. Someone should revert this change
to old text which is more clear, IMO.


Cheers,
Michael
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`. `'   |
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Re: [Debian Wiki] Update of "Java" by HenningSprang

[Arnaud Vandyck]

Am I missing something? Isn't Sun's Java 6 in Debian still in non-free?!

On 7/17/07, Debian Wiki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dear Wiki user,

You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Debian Wiki" for change 
notification.

The following page has been changed by HenningSprang:
http://wiki.debian.org/Java

The comment on the change is:
remove broken link to NonFree

--
   * ["JVM"], ["JRE"] and ["SDK"] (TODO: these might all be removed, or 
redirected to this page here?!)

  == Java from Sun ==
-  * ["Java/Sun"] - Sun's Implementation of Java is now being distributed in 
NonFree
+  * ["Java/Sun"] - Sun's Implementation is available in Debian
   * SunJava

  == Alternative free implementations ==




--
Arnaud Vandyck


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