Re: question on the recent kde packages updates in sid
Paul Scott wrote: James D. Freels wrote: Hello Debian-KDE users ! For the sid users here, I get the following message on a (not all may be kde, but most are) "apt-get -d -y dist-upgrade" I get this too. A new version is clearly being uploaded and isn't quite all there yet. See the just previous posts. Just wait a few hours or a day and the new version will probably be complete. Actually in the post I was referring to Chris Cheney said: Most of KDE 3.1.1 is now in Debian Sid. Tomorrow kdemultimedia, kdenetwork, and kdepim will probably go in. It will not be installable until ftpadmin team adds the needed overrides for libvorbis0a though. Paul
Re: question on the recent kde packages updates in sid
James D. Freels wrote: Hello Debian-KDE users ! For the sid users here, I get the following message on a (not all may be kde, but most are) "apt-get -d -y dist-upgrade" The following packages will be REMOVED: kdebase ksysguard The following packages have been kept back ark kamera kappfinder kate kcalc kcharselect kcmlinuz kcoloredit kcontrol kcron kdat kdeadmin kdeadmin-kfile-plugins kdebase-bin kdebase-kio-plugins kdegraphics kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kdelibs kdelibs-bin kdelibs-data kdelibs4 kdelibs4-dev kdepasswd kdeprint kdesktop kdessh kdeutils kdf kdm kdvi kedit kfax kfind kfloppy kghostview khelpcenter khexedit kicker kiconedit kjots klaptopdaemon klipper kmenuedit kmrml konqueror konqueror-nsplugins konsole kooka kpackage kpager kpaint kpersonalizer kpovmodeler kruler ksim ksmserver ksnapshot ksplash ksysv ktimer ktip kuickshow kuser kview kviewshell kwin kxconfig libarts1 libarts1-dev libartsc0 libartsc0-dev libkonq4 libkregexpeditor libkscan1 secpolicy vorbis-tools 29 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 76 not upgraded. I am reluctant to proceed with the upgrade before I understand why and if it is OK for kdebase to be removed. Anyone answer this ? Thanks... I get this too. A new version is clearly being uploaded and isn't quite all there yet. See the just previous posts. Just wait a few hours or a day and the new version will probably be complete. Paul Scott
Re: KDE Usability survey
>On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 01:23:36AM +0100, Frank Van Damme scrawled: >> Could you elaborate on the ICE-unix trick?? And wasn't kwrited a text editor? > >Making the .ICE-unix directory owned by root.root makes things run a lot >faster, IPC-wise, and kwrite is the text editor - kwrited is a daemon to >handle writes between users (think: write(1)). > This is good to know. So, chown root:root /tmp/.ICE-unix directory will increase system performance? What about removing kwrited and Klipper? Are these safe changes for speed improvements? What are some of the other 'well known tricks' to improve performance on lighter hardware? I'm compiling a full KDE-3.1 desktop system from scratch on a 200mHz PentiumMMX with 196M memory for my daughter so I'd like to get as much speed improvements as possible ;-) >-d > >-- >Daniel Stone > Cheers, John Gay
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 01:23:36AM +0100, Frank Van Damme scrawled: > Could you elaborate on the ICE-unix trick?? And wasn't kwrited a text editor? Making the .ICE-unix directory owned by root.root makes things run a lot faster, IPC-wise, and kwrite is the text editor - kwrited is a daemon to handle writes between users (think: write(1)). -d -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Developer, Trinity College, University of Melbourne pgpUD288UWGCx.pgp Description: PGP signature
dpkg errors involving KDE3, libarts and kmail
Hi I use Debian 3.0 + KDE3 + X4.2 + OCaml 3.0.6 (see sources.list below) When I do `apt-get update`, I get the following error: Unpacking replacement libarts1 ... dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libarts1_1.1.0-0woody4_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libqtmcop.so.1.0.0', which is also in package libarts1-qt dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/libarts1_1.1.0-0woody4_i386.deb I've probably made a mistake when I did `apt-get install kmail` even though kmail was being "held back", but I thought I had to do it, because my original kmail didn't work (crashing when I hit "reply") Many thanks in advance, Oleg -- /etc/apt/sources.list - deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ woody main non-free contrib deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ woody main non-free contrib deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US woody/non-US main contrib non-free deb-src http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US woody/non-US main contrib \ non-free deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ sid main non-free contrib deb http://people.debian.org/~blade/woody/i386 ./ deb http://download.us.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/latest/Debian/ woody main deb http://download.us.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/koffice-1.2.1/Debian/woody/ ./ deb http://people.debian.org/~zack/ocaml/ woody main non-free contrib
question on the recent kde packages updates in sid
Hello Debian-KDE users ! For the sid users here, I get the following message on a (not all may be kde, but most are) "apt-get -d -y dist-upgrade" The following packages will be REMOVED: kdebase ksysguard The following packages have been kept back ark kamera kappfinder kate kcalc kcharselect kcmlinuz kcoloredit kcontrol kcron kdat kdeadmin kdeadmin-kfile-plugins kdebase-bin kdebase-kio-plugins kdegraphics kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kdelibs kdelibs-bin kdelibs-data kdelibs4 kdelibs4-dev kdepasswd kdeprint kdesktop kdessh kdeutils kdf kdm kdvi kedit kfax kfind kfloppy kghostview khelpcenter khexedit kicker kiconedit kjots klaptopdaemon klipper kmenuedit kmrml konqueror konqueror-nsplugins konsole kooka kpackage kpager kpaint kpersonalizer kpovmodeler kruler ksim ksmserver ksnapshot ksplash ksysv ktimer ktip kuickshow kuser kview kviewshell kwin kxconfig libarts1 libarts1-dev libartsc0 libartsc0-dev libkonq4 libkregexpeditor libkscan1 secpolicy vorbis-tools 29 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 76 not upgraded. I am reluctant to proceed with the upgrade before I understand why and if it is OK for kdebase to be removed. Anyone answer this ? Thanks... -- James D. Freels, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] mplayer -cache 100 http://wdvx.microcerv.net/wdvx
Re: Map keys to arbitrary commands in KDE 3.1
On Thursday 13 March 2003 01:27, Carl Baldwin wrote: > Is anyone out there able to map keys to arbitrary commands in KDE. I > have been wondering about this for a long time. Right now I am using > KDE 3.1 and would like to map extra keys on the keyboard to control > xmms. I can't find a way to do it from the control center and I have > searched the web for a while without a clue. There seem to be several kicker applets available for integrating xmms with KDE. See http://apps.kde.com and search for xmms. Michael -- Michael Schuerig They tell you that the darkness mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] is a blessing in disguise. http://www.schuerig.de/michael/ --Janis Ian, "From Me To You"
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Thursday 13 March 2003 00:31, Nick Leverton wrote: > On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:28:15PM +0100, Michael Schuerig wrote: > > On Wednesday 12 March 2003 21:42, Frank Van Damme wrote: > > > Second, It may not be the design goal to run on the lowest end > > > stuff (like a system built out of Linux, Dietlibc, TinyX and twm > > > or something :-) ), .. > > > > Current KDE works pretty well on machines that are more than 3 > > years old. If anything, they'd need more -- and cheap -- memory. > > What more do you want? Those are machines you can't even buy > > anymore. > > One of Linux's "selling propositions" is that it makes better use of > the hardware and avoids the need for expensive upgrades. Linux != KDE Also, see below. > I think > it's good that as much software as possible be made as slim and fast > as possible. Or at least that the core framework (in this case KDE) > be lean and fast, allowing users to install as much "bloat" as they > want. So, if mysteriously KDE's memory requirement overnight grew by 256MB -- would you stop using it or would you just add memory because it's well worth it? > That said, I run KDE3.1 here on a 200MHz 128Mb K6/2, and am generally > reasonable satisfied with its performance as long as I don't have too > many large applications running. That machine is how old? 5 years? 6 years? You're very lucky that a completely up to date desktop environment still runs usably on such a machine. I'd find it utterly unreasonable to ask KDE developers to accommodate even lower end machines. That doesn't make those machines useless, of course. Just put them to a purpose that fits their age. Michael [No CC, please!] -- Michael Schuerig The usual excuse for our most unspeakable mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] public acts is that they are necessary. http://www.schuerig.de/michael/ --Judith N. Shklar
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Thursday 13 March 2003 00:01, kosh wrote: > I don't care if it becomes 10 times as large as Windows XP so long as it is > using that to do something useful. For example the kde ioslaves save me a > huge ammount of time since I can use just about any url protcol from any > app transparently. I really don't care what load that puts on the system > because frankly it is worth it. Memory is cheap and so is cpu power and for > what I do (building custom web apps) the time saving of a system like that > are worth the minor cost involved. For about $500 you can get an athlon xp > 2200, a KT400 board and 1G of DDR333 ram. That is indeed what I paid for my kt400 based system, be it with somewhat less memory :) . I frankly also don't care what Xp uses its memory for, except for keeping the wintel upgrade cycle alive. I am not running it as a desktop system and I never will. > It would be nice if kde where faster then it is now sure but I would not > trade that speed for features that I use now and hope to get more of in the > future. I would like it if I could embed kate in all > objects on the web so that I could use a real editor in them. If it uses up > more memory to do that I don't really care because the gain would be worth > it. The stuff could be made optional but I want the option to turn all of > it on that saves me time. kioslaves save me a good 30 minutes or so day and > that is 2.5 hours/week or 125 hours/year. For 125 hours I can afford to > sink a lot more into hardware if that is what it takes. Personally, I would consider kvim for text areas... but I fully agree with what you're saying about using memory for Something Useful. > > So I find the most important thing that KDE can focus on, snappyness and > > system requirements. And stability off course. > > I would hope they focus on stability and features primarily. Hopefully by > making things more modular they can make it faster and more featureful > since if you don't use those features you won't take the speed hit. That's what they're currently doing. A kioslave that you don't run or a kpart you don't embed is one that doesn't get loaded into memory. Just look at OpenOffice.org... -- Frank Van Damme http://www.openstandaarden.be
Map keys to arbitrary commands in KDE 3.1
Is anyone out there able to map keys to arbitrary commands in KDE. I have been wondering about this for a long time. Right now I am using KDE 3.1 and would like to map extra keys on the keyboard to control xmms. I can't find a way to do it from the control center and I have searched the web for a while without a clue. Thanks for your help, Carl Baldwin
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Thursday 13 March 2003 00:10, Daniel Stone wrote: > > Then show them a light window manager, like wmaker or blackbox (and > > friends). Having KDE be usable on extremely low-end hardware just isn't > > a design goal of KDE. > > Well, by default it's pretty heavy. But use a few well-known tricks, > like cutting out Klipper, or kwrited, making /tmp/.ICE-unix owned by > root.root, and a few more, and you'll soon get its speed up. Disable > aRts, too, if you want a speed boost. I ran KDE on my P166 with 64mb of > RAM (later 96mb) just fine for quite some time - and that was KDE2! Could you elaborate on the ICE-unix trick?? And wasn't kwrited a text editor? -- Frank Van Damme http://www.openstandaarden.be
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Wednesday 12 March 2003 23:28, Michael Schuerig wrote: > On Wednesday 12 March 2003 21:42, Frank Van Damme wrote: > > Second, It may not be the design goal to run on the lowest end stuff > > (like a system built out of Linux, Dietlibc, TinyX and twm or > > something :-) ), but I hope it isn't the goal of the kde project to > > become as big as Windows Xp or something (exageration for the sake of > > demonstration). > > Current KDE works pretty well on machines that are more than 3 years > old. If anything, they'd need more -- and cheap -- memory. What more do > you want? Those are machines you can't even buy anymore. No, that's true. Well, except for secondhand off course. A new computer also costs a bit of money, certainly if you want quality hardware, not a 90¤ all-in mobo that breaks after a year. > I admit it freely, I easily accept more bloat if the additional > functionality I get in turn outweighs it. This may not be aesthetically > pleasing, but I take it there's a significant group of people who > factually agree with me in the way they choose. Why do you think I run kmail. It didn't run too fast on my p133, but it's oh-so easy and practical. > Now, how large is this later group? And, in comparison, how many people > are there who absolutely need low resource use on a level of say 5 year > old hardware. Quit a bit I think. Think student rooms. I study in a rather small city which is packed with students, many of them having a computer in their rooms, used basically as a typewriter, 99 percent of them with using the DOS extentions from MS called Windows. Those computers are mostly pentium 1's, often with memory beefed up to 32 or 48 megs ram. You also find pentium 3's or the ocasional Amd, but as far as I can tell, pentium 3's or Athlons are a minority. Actually, I know a girl who (just 2 years ago!) replaced her 386 with 12 megs ram, on which she did all her word processing with Word 4 or so, with a super-slick pentium 200 featuring a whopping 96 megs ram. And no, they are not the sons and daughters of unemployed homeless people :-) Just to say: people don't want to upgrade their hardware if "that linux thing" has the reputation to run on slower hardware. No, they'd rather stick to windows 95. Even if it isn't HALF as user-friendly as KDE, and its design ugly as hell, unlike kde's (think kparts). There are a few things to consider here: 1) develpers usually have bigger boxes. They might not notice their own apps getting slower. 2) We're looking at those people who we think are using kde or a Debian desktop. Don't forget that there are people on other parts of the world (not us/europe) that use the stuff we threw away years ago - if they're lucky. > In my book, it would be tendentious to ask people whether they would > prefer KDE using less resources. Everyone does. IMHO, one of the few > valid questions in this regard is, How many people are exluded from > using KDE because of its resource requirements. Possibly taking into > account affordable hardware upgrades. Good point. Thinking about resources is easy for users: the less resources taken, the better. This isn't the case with other useability issues. I will agree with you that memory is pretty easy to upgrade. For 25-50 ¤ you'll be able to upgrade a box (assuming 72-pins edo ram) to the point where it will run KDE without swapping excessively. I don't think it's realistic to try and launch a fullblown desktop on 16 megs ram these days :-) People also seem to differ in their perception os speed - some find any computer older then 2 years unbearably slow, others will say they don't notice too much difference between a P200 and a GHz computer. Otoh, how many people will even know that computers are upgradeable or see looking for extra memory and someone to overclock their p75 as a possibility at all? Don't laugh - this is the kind of user who will be dropped in front of a linux box the next years. Maybe not immediately Debian, but Mandrake at first but you know what I mean ;-) -- Frank Van Damme http://www.openstandaarden.be
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Wednesday 12 March 2003 21:27, Randy Kramer wrote: > On Tuesday 11 March 2003 23:36, perlcgi2000 wrote: > Sorry, I looked at the survey and just couldn't bear to fill it out. I > haven't been on the list long, and don't know you, but I couldn't help > but get the feeling that you have some hidden agenda, and whatever I > say will be used to create a statistic to support that agenda. > > I'm going on record here saying I don't want to be part of that > statistic. If you tell me what your agenda is, I might or might not be > willing to support it. You're a bit paranoid I think :-) > BTW, with respect to some comments a little later on the main thread, I > hope anybody who suggests that kde be lighter, or that somebody use a > lighter window manager in place of kde, I hope you are aware of two > things: > >* The hidden functionality underlying the kde desktop and > applications (things like dcop for interprocess communication). Or Kparts, which is just the future of desktop-unix. I am absolutely aware of this! >* The optimization effort currently going on in kde. I wasn't really aware of this :-) Still I think it doesn't hurt if the developpers understand the need for it. That's why they take surveys after all ;-) > Randy Kramer -- Frank Van Damme http://www.openstandaarden.be
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:28:15PM +0100, Michael Schuerig wrote: > On Wednesday 12 March 2003 21:42, Frank Van Damme wrote: > > Second, It may not be the design goal to run on the lowest end stuff > > (like a system built out of Linux, Dietlibc, TinyX and twm or > > something :-) ), .. > > Current KDE works pretty well on machines that are more than 3 years > old. If anything, they'd need more -- and cheap -- memory. What more do > you want? Those are machines you can't even buy anymore. One of Linux's "selling propositions" is that it makes better use of the hardware and avoids the need for expensive upgrades. I think it's good that as much software as possible be made as slim and fast as possible. Or at least that the core framework (in this case KDE) be lean and fast, allowing users to install as much "bloat" as they want. And as part of that, it should be possible for a user to run any program, as well integrated as possible with KDE, if it fits their footprint better. I'd like the usability to go into this, into making a truly all-empowering desktop. Perhaps one could come up with KDE compatible drop-ins for, say, the GTK open/close dialogues ? Maybe load the appropriate ones depending on the WM ? That would be so useful, I don't know whether it's technically feasible :) That said, I run KDE3.1 here on a 200MHz 128Mb K6/2, and am generally reasonable satisfied with its performance as long as I don't have too many large applications running. The kernel, X and KDE loads in 96Mb for the base WM, which I think is better than XP. I think Microsoft recommend 256Mb, and their "recommends" is usually a bare minimum :) I just want to thank Ralf and all the others who have made all the latest graphical stuff available on Debian ! I'm passing the upgrades on to my friends who run Stable ... Nick
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 10:00:23AM -0800, Brian Nelson scrawled: > Then show them a light window manager, like wmaker or blackbox (and > friends). Having KDE be usable on extremely low-end hardware just isn't > a design goal of KDE. Well, by default it's pretty heavy. But use a few well-known tricks, like cutting out Klipper, or kwrited, making /tmp/.ICE-unix owned by root.root, and a few more, and you'll soon get its speed up. Disable aRts, too, if you want a speed boost. I ran KDE on my P166 with 64mb of RAM (later 96mb) just fine for quite some time - and that was KDE2! -- Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Developer - http://kopete.kde.org, http://www.kde.org pgpDMEE7y4Rma.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Wednesday 12 March 2003 01:42 pm, Frank Van Damme wrote: > Second, It may not be the design goal to run on the lowest end stuff (like > a system built out of Linux, Dietlibc, TinyX and twm or something :-) ), > but I hope it isn't the goal of the kde project to become as big as Windows > Xp or something (exageration for the sake of demonstration). > I don't care if it becomes 10 times as large as Windows XP so long as it is using that to do something useful. For example the kde ioslaves save me a huge ammount of time since I can use just about any url protcol from any app transparently. I really don't care what load that puts on the system because frankly it is worth it. Memory is cheap and so is cpu power and for what I do (building custom web apps) the time saving of a system like that are worth the minor cost involved. For about $500 you can get an athlon xp 2200, a KT400 board and 1G of DDR333 ram. It would be nice if kde where faster then it is now sure but I would not trade that speed for features that I use now and hope to get more of in the future. I would like it if I could embed kate in all objects on the web so that I could use a real editor in them. If it uses up more memory to do that I don't really care because the gain would be worth it. The stuff could be made optional but I want the option to turn all of it on that saves me time. kioslaves save me a good 30 minutes or so day and that is 2.5 hours/week or 125 hours/year. For 125 hours I can afford to sink a lot more into hardware if that is what it takes. > Third, () the machine I named is low-end by todays standards, > but by no means "extremely" low-end. It would be like a space shuttle ride > for the majority of the worlds population. > > So I find the most important thing that KDE can focus on, snappyness and > system requirements. And stability off course. I would hope they focus on stability and features primarily. Hopefully by making things more modular they can make it faster and more featureful since if you don't use those features you won't take the speed hit.
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Wednesday 12 March 2003 21:42, Frank Van Damme wrote: > Second, It may not be the design goal to run on the lowest end stuff > (like a system built out of Linux, Dietlibc, TinyX and twm or > something :-) ), but I hope it isn't the goal of the kde project to > become as big as Windows Xp or something (exageration for the sake of > demonstration). Current KDE works pretty well on machines that are more than 3 years old. If anything, they'd need more -- and cheap -- memory. What more do you want? Those are machines you can't even buy anymore. I admit it freely, I easily accept more bloat if the additional functionality I get in turn outweighs it. This may not be aesthetically pleasing, but I take it there's a significant group of people who factually agree with me in the way they choose. Now, how large is this later group? And, in comparison, how many people are there who absolutely need low resource use on a level of say 5 year old hardware. In my book, it would be tendentious to ask people whether they would prefer KDE using less resources. Everyone does. IMHO, one of the few valid questions in this regard is, How many people are exluded from using KDE because of its resource requirements. Possibly taking into account affordable hardware upgrades. Michael -- Michael Schuerig Most people would rather die than think. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] In fact, they do. http://www.schuerig.de/michael/ --Bertrand Russell
Re: Is kscd usable? (kdemultimedia 3.1 on ppc)
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 09:02:29PM +, James Tappin wrote: > The counter argument is that by using the analogue cable from the drive to > the sound card you add an extra D->A and A->D conversion. Furthermore the > D->A on most PC (or Mac) CD drives isn't of the highest quality and you > are moving the signal in analogue form in an extremely hostile environment > via what isn't generally be best-shielded cable in the business. > > James Well you also have the argument that its been good enough for the past 15 years, people aren't suddenly becoming audiophiles... ;) Chris
Re: Is kscd usable? (kdemultimedia 3.1 on ppc)
On Wednesday 12 March 2003 04:02 pm, James Tappin wrote: > The counter argument is that by using the analogue cable from the > drive to the sound card you add an extra D->A and A->D conversion. > Furthermore the D->A on most PC (or Mac) CD drives isn't of the > highest quality and you are moving the signal in analogue form in an > extremely hostile environment via what isn't generally be > best-shielded cable in the business. Thank you!! Randy Kramer
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Status Report
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mittwoch, 12. März 2003 21:20, Chris Cheney wrote: > Most of KDE 3.1.1 is now in Debian Sid. Tomorrow kdemultimedia, > kdenetwork, and kdepim will probably go in. It will not be installable > until ftpadmin team adds the needed overrides for libvorbis0a though. Can you sponsor me kde-i18n so that gets in, too ? Ralf > > Chris - -- We're not a company, we just produce better code at less costs. - Ralf Nolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] The K Desktop Environment The KDevelop Project http://www.kde.org http://www.kdevelop.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+b6a6u0nKi+w1Ky8RAj1LAJwPyccxtEXEaICQCwy6dssoQM24KgCgm/4U OgUMk+178Zt2AbweFJzMKCE= =Lod+ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Is kscd usable? (kdemultimedia 3.1 on ppc)
On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:32:46 -0600 Chris Cheney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's a shame that they went the cheap route and got rid of the cable, > you are probably losing several percent of your cpu power now just to > play an audio cd that would regularly require none. As I understand it > you can play audio cds via ripping if you run noatun and use the > audiocd:/ ioslave. The counter argument is that by using the analogue cable from the drive to the sound card you add an extra D->A and A->D conversion. Furthermore the D->A on most PC (or Mac) CD drives isn't of the highest quality and you are moving the signal in analogue form in an extremely hostile environment via what isn't generally be best-shielded cable in the business. James -- James Tappin, O__ "I forget the punishment for using [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- \/`Microsoft --- Something lingering http://www.tappin.me.uk/with data loss in it I fancy"
Re: KDE 3.1.1 Status Report
Thank you! Not only for the status update but most of all for the work you put into the packages! --Felix
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Wednesday 12 March 2003 19:00, Brian Nelson wrote: > Frank Van Damme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Filled it in with all pleasure, and, since you're asking my opinion > > anyway, the useability of kde has little to do with menu structures of > > user-friendlyness, at which it is way ahead of all the others. It has > > more to do with kde's major disease: obesity. I don't know if this has to > > do with c++, gcc, qt or kde, but there's room for improvement there. To > > the majority of students I know, Kde has not become a viable alternative > > to their revamped dos shell because of it. You know it would be REALLY > > impressive if I could demonstrate kde on a p100 with just 32 megs ram! > > Everyone would just JUMP on Debian ;-) > > Then show them a light window manager, like wmaker or blackbox (and > friends). Having KDE be usable on extremely low-end hardware just isn't > a design goal of KDE. I get your meaning, and this is often answered in "window manager jihads", but actually isn't my point. First, any desktop user will want to use kde apps. I mean that as a compliment :-) . So you'll inevitable load and use qt and kde libraries. Second, It may not be the design goal to run on the lowest end stuff (like a system built out of Linux, Dietlibc, TinyX and twm or something :-) ), but I hope it isn't the goal of the kde project to become as big as Windows Xp or something (exageration for the sake of demonstration). Third, () the machine I named is low-end by todays standards, but by no means "extremely" low-end. It would be like a space shuttle ride for the majority of the worlds population. So I find the most important thing that KDE can focus on, snappyness and system requirements. And stability off course. -- Frank Van Damme http://www.openstandaarden.be
Re: Is kscd usable? (kdemultimedia 3.1 on ppc)
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 05:52:22PM +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > > So it turns out that this is a bug in kscd. Because NewWorld Macs don't have > a wire going from the CD drive to the sound card, the system has to push the > sound to the card itself. It seems that only xmms has a plugin to do this. > Most other programs (including kscd) just start the CD drive and expect the > audio to just end up at the soundcard. > > There's already a wishlist bug against it in KDE. I added one in Debian as > well. > > Frank It's a shame that they went the cheap route and got rid of the cable, you are probably losing several percent of your cpu power now just to play an audio cd that would regularly require none. As I understand it you can play audio cds via ripping if you run noatun and use the audiocd:/ ioslave. Chris
Re: noatun cd access
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 03:42:38PM +0100, Wolfgang Mader wrote: > hallo to everyone, > > i wondered how to access a audio cd by noatun. i did not find a possibility to > do this. pleas tell me the solution. > thank you > w mader I have not tried it myself but supposedly using the audiocd:/ ioslave works but plays via ripping so it will use more cpu power. Chris
KDE 3.1.1 Status Report
Most of KDE 3.1.1 is now in Debian Sid. Tomorrow kdemultimedia, kdenetwork, and kdepim will probably go in. It will not be installable until ftpadmin team adds the needed overrides for libvorbis0a though. Chris
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Tuesday 11 March 2003 23:36, perlcgi2000 wrote: > I'm doing some research into the usability of KDE. > > Hopefully the results can be fed into the KDE > Usability project (http://usability.kde.org) and help > improve future versions of KDE. > > The survey only takes 5 minutes to fill out and can be > found at http://80.0.178.29/cgi-bin/kdesurvey.pl Sorry, I looked at the survey and just couldn't bear to fill it out. I haven't been on the list long, and don't know you, but I couldn't help but get the feeling that you have some hidden agenda, and whatever I say will be used to create a statistic to support that agenda. I'm going on record here saying I don't want to be part of that statistic. If you tell me what your agenda is, I might or might not be willing to support it. BTW, with respect to some comments a little later on the main thread, I hope anybody who suggests that kde be lighter, or that somebody use a lighter window manager in place of kde, I hope you are aware of two things: * The hidden functionality underlying the kde desktop and applications (things like dcop for interprocess communication). * The optimization effort currently going on in kde. Randy Kramer
Re: Is kscd usable? (kdemultimedia 3.1 on ppc)
On Wednesday 12 March 2003 11:52 am, Frank Murphy wrote: > So it turns out that this is a bug in kscd. Because NewWorld Macs > don't have a wire going from the CD drive to the sound card, the > system has to push the sound to the card itself. It seems that only > xmms has a plugin to do this. Most other programs (including kscd) > just start the CD drive and expect the audio to just end up at the > soundcard. > > There's already a wishlist bug against it in KDE. I added one in > Debian as well. I hope when somebody addresses this they consider all relevant factors. In Windows (95) when using Easy Cd Creator, if I copy a disk from a CD without that audio cable, I get a digital copy. With the cable installed I seem to get an analog copy. Don't know where the magic is that does that, but the feature is exploitable -- sometimes when I have a bad CD (something with scratches or whatever) I get a better copy going the digital route and sometimes I get a better copy going the analog route. Randy Kramer
Re: KDE Usability survey
Frank Van Damme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tuesday 11 March 2003 23:36, perlcgi2000 wrote: >> Hi, >> >> >> I'm doing some research into the usability of KDE. >> >> Hopefully the results can be fed into the KDE >> Usability project (http://usability.kde.org) and help >> improve future versions of KDE. >> >> The survey only takes 5 minutes to fill out and can be >> found at http://80.0.178.29/cgi-bin/kdesurvey.pl >> >> >> Thanks for your help :-) > > Filled it in with all pleasure, and, since you're asking my opinion anyway, > the useability of kde has little to do with menu structures of > user-friendlyness, at which it is way ahead of all the others. It has more to > do with kde's major disease: obesity. I don't know if this has to do with > c++, gcc, qt or kde, but there's room for improvement there. To the majority > of students I know, Kde has not become a viable alternative to their revamped > dos shell because of it. You know it would be REALLY impressive if I could > demonstrate kde on a p100 with just 32 megs ram! Everyone would just JUMP on > Debian ;-) Then show them a light window manager, like wmaker or blackbox (and friends). Having KDE be usable on extremely low-end hardware just isn't a design goal of KDE. -- I had no feelings about it. It was aloof and licked itself too much. Like my cat Mr. Trotsky. pgprX9yS4g1N0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Is kscd usable? (kdemultimedia 3.1 on ppc)
So it turns out that this is a bug in kscd. Because NewWorld Macs don't have a wire going from the CD drive to the sound card, the system has to push the sound to the card itself. It seems that only xmms has a plugin to do this. Most other programs (including kscd) just start the CD drive and expect the audio to just end up at the soundcard. There's already a wishlist bug against it in KDE. I added one in Debian as well. Frank On Wednesday 12 March 2003 04:30 pm, Ralf Nolden wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mittwoch, 12. März 2003 14:10, Frank Murphy wrote: > > I'm running sid on my iBook, and I'm trying to play a CD. I start the cd > > in kscd, but no sound comes out. Checking Arts Control, kscd is not > > attached to arts. Is this a problem specific to power PC? Can anyone else > > successfully use kscd? > > did you check your're in group cdrom and disk ? > > > Frank > > -- > > http://www.mdashdeign.ch";>Swiss Graphic Design > > - -- > We're not a company, we just produce better code at less costs. > - > Ralf Nolden > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > The K Desktop Environment The KDevelop Project > http://www.kde.org http://www.kdevelop.org > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQE+b1Kqu0nKi+w1Ky8RAn9vAJ4sVSWTVQFrEfI+st1gmQmD1xaHcgCffeDI > mKFehXtoqB1l7p4EjJbNFwk= > =i2Tk > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Is kscd usable? (kdemultimedia 3.1 on ppc)
kscd does not use arts, as the cd-audio signal goes straight from the cdplayer to the soundcard (on a desktop, you can often play cds without even running an OS). kscd works on i386 (I'm listening to Nora Jones with it right now), but I cannot vouch for ppc. If other cd apps work (like workbone), then I'm truly stumped, but my first guess is that your cd channel is muted. Start kmix and see for yourself. On Wednesday 12 March 2003 06:10 am, Frank Murphy wrote: > I'm running sid on my iBook, and I'm trying to play a CD. I start the cd in > kscd, but no sound comes out. Checking Arts Control, kscd is not attached > to arts. Is this a problem specific to power PC? Can anyone else > successfully use kscd? > > Frank > -- > http://www.mdashdeign.ch";>Swiss Graphic Design -- MuMlutlitithtrhreeaadededd s siigngnatatuurere D.A.Bishop
Re: noatun cd access
You cannot listen to cds in noatun, use kscd for that. And please, for the love of all that is good and righteous and holy, get a smaller sig. Otherwise, Osama wins :-( On Wednesday 12 March 2003 07:42 am, Wolfgang Mader wrote: > hallo to everyone, > > i wondered how to access a audio cd by noatun. i did not find a possibility > to do this. pleas tell me the solution. > thank you > w mader > -- -- MuMlutlitithtrhreeaadededd s siigngnatatuurere D.A.Bishop
Re: PGP Signatures
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mittwoch, 12. März 2003 15:19, Victor R. Cain wrote: > I'm missing some plug-ins to process PGP signatures. I get messages like: > Message was signed with unknown key. > The validity of the signature cannot be verified. > Problem: S/MIME plug-in was not specified. > Use the 'Settings->Configure KMail->Security' dialog to specify the > plug-in or ask your system administrator to do that for you. > In some cases the plug-in message is > Problem: OpenPGP plug-in was not specified. > > Can some one tell me where to find these plug-ins? apt-get install cryptplug. You may need to install a bunch of other stuff to get things working. Ralf > > TIA, > > -- > Victor R. Cain (865)435-5084Fax:(865)435-9709 > E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.vicsfamily.net > > Quote of the Hour > IN SUMMARY: > At age 4 success is . . not peeing in your pants. > At age 12 success is . . having friends. > At age 16 success is . . having a drivers license. > At age 20 success is . . having sex. > At age 35 success is . . having money. > At age 50 success is . . having money. > At age 60 success is . . having sex. > At age 70 success is . . having a drivers license. > At age 75 success is . . having friends. > At age 80 success is . . not peeing in your pants. - -- We're not a company, we just produce better code at less costs. - Ralf Nolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] The K Desktop Environment The KDevelop Project http://www.kde.org http://www.kdevelop.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+b1Lau0nKi+w1Ky8RArBlAJ9Fin5Z7boaWfgXhvXrA5CnSt0ArACgoiSN j4BAPa+KaoQT+3A8z2Jlatc= =1H81 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: kmail: compact local folder
On Wednesday 12 March 2003 06:08 am, Michael Schmitz wrote: > Am Die, 2003-03-11 um 18.55 schrieb Ralf Nolden: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Dienstag, 11. März 2003 17:00, Michael Schmitz wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > my ~/Mail/inbox file has several hundred MB even if there are only a > > > few undeleted emails in. > > > How can I compact that file? > > > > using the right mouse button in the treeview pane in kmail over the inbox > > folder and select compress ? > > Unfortunately there is no 'compress' just 'compact'. > And referring to the KMail documentation, this is just to purge deleted > mails from an IMAP server. > http://docs.kde.org/en/3.1/kdenetwork/kmail/setting-up-your-account.html It is also for the older-style 'mbox' type local accounts. And this indeed is what you are running into. It has all of your old emails, not deleted, just marked so in the index file. If manually running compact on the folder does not drastically reduce the size of the mbox file, then you have been hit by a (since-fixed) kmail bug. Close KMail, locate your kmailrc (in .kde/share/config) and find the line that says 'Compactable=[no|false] and change it to 'true'. Then restart kmail and right-click compact again. It should now be much smaller. HTH. -- MuMlutlitithtrhreeaadededd s siigngnatatuurere D.A.Bishop
Re: Is kscd usable? (kdemultimedia 3.1 on ppc)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mittwoch, 12. März 2003 14:10, Frank Murphy wrote: > I'm running sid on my iBook, and I'm trying to play a CD. I start the cd in > kscd, but no sound comes out. Checking Arts Control, kscd is not attached > to arts. Is this a problem specific to power PC? Can anyone else > successfully use kscd? did you check your're in group cdrom and disk ? > > Frank > -- > http://www.mdashdeign.ch";>Swiss Graphic Design - -- We're not a company, we just produce better code at less costs. - Ralf Nolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] The K Desktop Environment The KDevelop Project http://www.kde.org http://www.kdevelop.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+b1Kqu0nKi+w1Ky8RAn9vAJ4sVSWTVQFrEfI+st1gmQmD1xaHcgCffeDI mKFehXtoqB1l7p4EjJbNFwk= =i2Tk -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: kmail: compact local folder
On Wednesday 12 March 2003 14:08, Michael Schmitz wrote: > Am Die, 2003-03-11 um 18.55 schrieb Ralf Nolden: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Dienstag, 11. März 2003 17:00, Michael Schmitz wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > my ~/Mail/inbox file has several hundred MB even if there are only a few > > > undeleted emails in. > > > How can I compact that file? I had this problem too with my inbox (move msg to new folder, inbox: move all msg trash, and moving msg back to inbox, was a way to compact the inbox). I've never checked if other folders have the same problem. Just checked and I have again the same the problem with my inbox. I wanted to submit a bug report and found this old closed bug that I reopened: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39290 Achim > > > > using the right mouse button in the treeview pane in kmail over the inbox > > folder and select compress ? > Unfortunately there is no 'compress' just 'compact'. > And referring to the KMail documentation, this is just to purge deleted > mails from an IMAP server. > http://docs.kde.org/en/3.1/kdenetwork/kmail/setting-up-your-account.html > > Regards, > Michael > > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- To me vi is Zen. To use vi is to practice zen. Every command is a koan. Profound to the user, unintelligible to the uninitiated. You discover truth everytime you use it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Request for mirrors for HEAD debs
Hi all, I'm looking for any available mirrors for my CVS HEAD packages. It looks like my existing one is going to be unavailable shortly, and I would like to have a backup plan. I have set up rsync, so mirroring is a simple matter of an occasional cron job, and not too much else on your part. Sources and debs take up ~450MB. Information and repository currently at http://oberlin.cems.umn.edu/kdecvs Please contact me if you would be able to mirror these, and I will provide detailed instructions. The only hitch is I need to know the IP of the machine which will be performing the rsync. Thanks in advance, James -- James Greenhalgh, Open Door Software Inc. I believe in free software. Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Please do not send me any proprietary attachments. PGP key num: D858790C Fingerprint: A253 E524 8BC4 5E86 77E4 83D3 C27D D276 D858 790C signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
noatun cd access
hallo to everyone, i wondered how to access a audio cd by noatun. i did not find a possibility to do this. pleas tell me the solution. thank you w mader -- And for one second I lost my head and for one second, I wished that you were dead and for one second, you wish that you were here all alone. Hold back the tears that could fall for me. And for one second, I lost my breath and for one second, I cherished what you said and for one second it seemed that I was here all alone. Hold back the tears that could fall for me. And for one second, I understand and for one second, my life was in your hands and for one second, you wish that you were here all alone. Hold back the tears that could fall for me, they fall alone. Paradise Lost - One Second - One Second
kdepim & sid
I installed KMail from http://people.debian.org/~ccheney/kde-other/ but it doesn't have addressbook. Ok - so I tried to install kdepim package but it is not found :( Is there any respository with rest of KDE 3.1 packages for 'sid'? CC: me because I'm not subscribed to this list -- I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!
PGP Signatures
I'm missing some plug-ins to process PGP signatures. I get messages like: Message was signed with unknown key. The validity of the signature cannot be verified. Problem: S/MIME plug-in was not specified. Use the 'Settings->Configure KMail->Security' dialog to specify the plug-in or ask your system administrator to do that for you. In some cases the plug-in message is Problem: OpenPGP plug-in was not specified. Can some one tell me where to find these plug-ins? TIA, -- Victor R. Cain (865)435-5084Fax:(865)435-9709 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.vicsfamily.net Quote of the Hour IN SUMMARY: At age 4 success is . . not peeing in your pants. At age 12 success is . . having friends. At age 16 success is . . having a drivers license. At age 20 success is . . having sex. At age 35 success is . . having money. At age 50 success is . . having money. At age 60 success is . . having sex. At age 70 success is . . having a drivers license. At age 75 success is . . having friends. At age 80 success is . . not peeing in your pants.
Is kscd usable? (kdemultimedia 3.1 on ppc)
I'm running sid on my iBook, and I'm trying to play a CD. I start the cd in kscd, but no sound comes out. Checking Arts Control, kscd is not attached to arts. Is this a problem specific to power PC? Can anyone else successfully use kscd? Frank -- http://www.mdashdeign.ch";>Swiss Graphic Design
Re: kmail: compact local folder
Am Die, 2003-03-11 um 18.55 schrieb Ralf Nolden: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Dienstag, 11. März 2003 17:00, Michael Schmitz wrote: > > Hi, > > > > my ~/Mail/inbox file has several hundred MB even if there are only a few > > undeleted emails in. > > How can I compact that file? > > using the right mouse button in the treeview pane in kmail over the inbox > folder and select compress ? Unfortunately there is no 'compress' just 'compact'. And referring to the KMail documentation, this is just to purge deleted mails from an IMAP server. http://docs.kde.org/en/3.1/kdenetwork/kmail/setting-up-your-account.html Regards, Michael
Re: KDE Usability survey
On Tuesday 11 March 2003 23:36, perlcgi2000 wrote: > Hi, > > > I'm doing some research into the usability of KDE. > > Hopefully the results can be fed into the KDE > Usability project (http://usability.kde.org) and help > improve future versions of KDE. > > The survey only takes 5 minutes to fill out and can be > found at http://80.0.178.29/cgi-bin/kdesurvey.pl > > > Thanks for your help :-) Filled it in with all pleasure, and, since you're asking my opinion anyway, the useability of kde has little to do with menu structures of user-friendlyness, at which it is way ahead of all the others. It has more to do with kde's major disease: obesity. I don't know if this has to do with c++, gcc, qt or kde, but there's room for improvement there. To the majority of students I know, Kde has not become a viable alternative to their revamped dos shell because of it. You know it would be REALLY impressive if I could demonstrate kde on a p100 with just 32 megs ram! Everyone would just JUMP on Debian ;-) -- Frank Van Damme http://www.openstandaarden.be
Re: gtk2-engines-geramik [solved]
On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 00:33, Matt Sheffield wrote: > On Tuesday, March 11, 2003 12:56 pm, Ralf Nolden wrote: > > On Dienstag, 11. März 2003 17:52, Stefan Schimanski wrote: > > > Can you send me these error messages? I don't see a reason why it > > > shouldn't build on Woody. > > > > I don't even see the problem exactly, it works fine (didn't hear any other > > complains as well here) > > I'm getting the same error message running gedit: > (gedit:888): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in module_path: > "qtpixmap2", > > But everything seems to work fine with GTK+ apps. I got it set now, which I tried to build from unstable source. Stefan told me (thanks again Stefan) that the debhelper in my system was out of date. Never got that message anymore, :) -- Yuhanes Tjandra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
