Re: network configuration
Freddie Cash wrote: > I can understand putting network-level information into a single > config file. Things like IPs, routes, gateways, etc. All the stuff > you need *AFTER* a link is established. > > But link-level stuff should not go into the same config file as > network-level stuff. This is all stuff that needs to happen > *beforehand*. And these should be able to change without affecting > the network-level too much. All the network-level needs to see if > "linkup" and "linkdown" events, and then run/load the appropriate > config. > > wpa_supplicant works the same as plugging in an Ethernet cable. >From a user point-of-view, it's all about creating a network connection. The information provided in /etc/network/interfaces is available _before_ the connection is made - else why would there be an if-pre-up.d directory. > For instance, configuring the wireless link should happen before > putting the IPs and whatnot onto the interface. Creating a PPP > connection or a PPPoE connection needs to happen before running DHCP > and whatnot on the interface. Many things can happen before running DHCP. Your end-user doesn't want to know where in the process DHCP runs - he doesn't even want to know what DHCP is (let alone what the initials stand for). I still think keeping connection information in one place is fine (though I agreed that breaking old - working - setups is not cool). -- derek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
Andrew Schulman wrote: [I wrote:] >> I think, one day, network manager will be the way to go. For now, I'll >> have to rely on ifplugd and whereami. > > Whew. Linux for desktops and laptops has made enormous strides, but this > is > one area where it lags badly. The range of tools-- ifplugd, whereami, > waproamd, wpasupplicant, network-manager, all of the wireless tools, and > others that I can't even remember now-- and their interactions is simply > baffling to me, and I'm a long-time Debian user with a moderate to high > tolerance for complexity. Me too. The good news is that I'm now at home on the wireless network, and network-manager did bring up the link perfectly. So it seems to be working fine - as far as it goes. It just doesn't actually let me configure anything to be done when a particular connection is made, which means I still need whereami. > > Fortunately, looking at the current ferment in open source tools in this > area, I predict that in about one year, we'll have a good set of > easy-to-use > tools for moving between WLANs with a laptop. Linux will catch up. Three months ago, network-manager was _completely_ unworkable in Ubuntu. Today, it seems minimally useful. I think it's a pretty safe bet that in a year it will be a good tool. -- derek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
Hi [vie, 21 abr 2006 16:45:47 -0400] - Andrew Schulman: > > I think, one day, network manager will be the way to go. For now, I'll have > > to rely on ifplugd and whereami. > > Whew. Linux for desktops and laptops has made enormous strides, but this is > one area where it lags badly. The range of tools-- ifplugd, whereami, > waproamd, wpasupplicant, network-manager, all of the wireless tools, and > others that I can't even remember now-- and their interactions is simply > baffling to me, and I'm a long-time Debian user with a moderate to high > tolerance for complexity. > > There are things in Linux (like network servers) that I like to tinker with > and get just right, and then there are things (like sound) that I don't care > how they work, I just want them to work. WLAN association is in the latter > category. I have to say that Microsoft has really done an excellent job > with their taskbar applet for WLANs in XP SP2. It's easy to set up, and > once it's set up it mostly just works without any intervention. For managing wireless NICs maybe you'll find SWScanner [1] usefull. It has a wider range of functions but among them it allows you to easily search, store, asociate, deasociate and configure wireless networks. Anyway, network-manager looks _very_ promising :-) > Fortunately, looking at the current ferment in open source tools in this > area, I predict that in about one year, we'll have a good set of easy-to-use > tools for moving between WLANs with a laptop. Linux will catch up. [1] http://www.swscanner.org > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- ___ Iván Forcada Atienza: correo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- "Software is like sex: it's better when it's free" (Linus Torvalds) pgpK90Egs0fGX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: network configuration
On Friday 21 April 2006 19:36, Anders Ellenshøj Andersen wrote: > > Oh good, so I'm not the only one who can't stand the > > "new-world-order". Putting everything into the interfaces file breaks > > all the nice, automatic, "it-just-works" configs I had. Took me > > I vote for the 'all in interfaces' solution. > > Actually.. I vote for the nothing in interfaces solution. I want > network-manager asap. network-manager is in unstable, but it is still unusable for me as you can't configure different network-schemes or something like that. :-( regards, Christian
Re: network configuration
> I think, one day, network manager will be the way to go. For now, I'll have > to rely on ifplugd and whereami. Whew. Linux for desktops and laptops has made enormous strides, but this is one area where it lags badly. The range of tools-- ifplugd, whereami, waproamd, wpasupplicant, network-manager, all of the wireless tools, and others that I can't even remember now-- and their interactions is simply baffling to me, and I'm a long-time Debian user with a moderate to high tolerance for complexity. There are things in Linux (like network servers) that I like to tinker with and get just right, and then there are things (like sound) that I don't care how they work, I just want them to work. WLAN association is in the latter category. I have to say that Microsoft has really done an excellent job with their taskbar applet for WLANs in XP SP2. It's easy to set up, and once it's set up it mostly just works without any intervention. Fortunately, looking at the current ferment in open source tools in this area, I predict that in about one year, we'll have a good set of easy-to-use tools for moving between WLANs with a laptop. Linux will catch up. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
On Friday 21 April 2006 20:35, Freddie Cash wrote: > I can understand putting network-level information into a single > config file. Things like IPs, routes, gateways, etc. All the stuff > you need *AFTER* a link is established. Exactly what I think. > But link-level stuff should not go into the same config file as > network-level stuff. This is all stuff that needs to happen > *beforehand*. And these should be able to change without affecting > the network-level too much. All the network-level needs to see if > "linkup" and "linkdown" events, and then run/load the appropriate > config. Exactly what I think. > > wpa_supplicant works the same as plugging in an Ethernet cable. Exactly what I think. > For instance, configuring the wireless link should happen before > putting the IPs and whatnot onto the interface. Creating a PPP > connection or a PPPoE connection needs to happen before running DHCP > and whatnot on the interface. > > These should be separate configs and separate actions. Exactly what I think. (Do I repeat myself?) Kind regards, Felix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
On Fri, April 21, 2006 10:18 am, Derek Broughton wrote: > Freddie Cash wrote: >> On Fri, April 21, 2006 5:30 am, Felix Homann wrote: >>> (I would *not* recommend to use the new configuration scheme >>> proposed by the wpa_supplicant maintainers. It's not useful for a >>> system in changing environments. Use the "old" or "deprecated" >>> init script. There's currently a lot of discussion about this on >>> the respective mailing list.) >> Oh good, so I'm not the only one who can't stand the >> "new-world-order". Putting everything into the interfaces file >> breaks all the nice, automatic, "it-just-works" configs I had. > It might break yours, but it was the way interface control was moving > before we ever _had_ wpa_supplicant, so it would have been really > nice if the wpa_supplicant developers had moved in step with the rest > of the world. >> What is it with Linux devs that they have to change everything that >> works to something that barely works for the next three releases? >> Why can't they just keep the things that work? wpa_supplicant has >> been running perfectly on all my FreeBSD systems for almost a year >> now, and is now broken on all my Linux systems. > And I've been trying (and failing) to keep all my network information > in /etc/network/interfaces for three years. -- derek I can understand putting network-level information into a single config file. Things like IPs, routes, gateways, etc. All the stuff you need *AFTER* a link is established. But link-level stuff should not go into the same config file as network-level stuff. This is all stuff that needs to happen *beforehand*. And these should be able to change without affecting the network-level too much. All the network-level needs to see if "linkup" and "linkdown" events, and then run/load the appropriate config. wpa_supplicant works the same as plugging in an Ethernet cable. For instance, configuring the wireless link should happen before putting the IPs and whatnot onto the interface. Creating a PPP connection or a PPPoE connection needs to happen before running DHCP and whatnot on the interface. These should be separate configs and separate actions. Especially since "the rest of the world" works that way. Debian is the only system I've come across that tries to mix everything together into one process/file. Freddie Cash, LPCI-1 CCNT CCLPHelpdesk / Network Support Tech. School District 73(250) 377-HELP [377-4357] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
Anders Ellenshøj Andersen wrote: > fredag 21 april 2006 19:01 skrev Derek Broughton: >> > network-manager is what I would recommend, but it has just barely >> > become available in unstable, and if you want the kde applet, it is >> > only available as an ubuntu package. >> >> Is that really working? I tried it some time ago, and it was essentially >> non-funtional - but it looked promising. > > Well. At least it does automatic dhcp configuration on my laptop for > my 'wired' network card, with a completely empty /etc/network/interfaces > (except for the loopback interface). And the kde applet shows a message > when you pull out the cable and insert it again. So that part works. > > However the applet can't seem to actually locate any of the information > for neither the wired network card or the Intel Pro Wireless 2200 card, so > you can't actually do anything useful with the applet. It only displays > the message when you pull out or insert a network cable. I think I answered my own question anyway - first of all, I've found that there's a month-old bug about the fact that it can't handle having anything in /etc/network/interfaces - that's bad! (Especially after I just argued that it's _good_ to put everything in there!). > Thus I can't configure the wireless network, which was the primary purpose > for installing network-manager. I suspect the problem is that the ipw2200 > module which comes with the stock debian kernel is simply too old. I don't buy that - ifplugd handles my wireless (ipw2200) connections well enough, this should be able to. No, this is still not _nearly_ ready for primetime. It's working well enough for eth0, but there's no way to configure what it does when the network comes up (fortunately whereami is still doing it), there's no help, if /etc/network/interfaces is not clean it dies without explanation, "show networks" shows me only "trusted" and "untrusted" - no way to mark a network as trusted - and apparently not even a way to identify the individual networks. If it doesn't work for me with the ipw2200, then I won't even _have_ a network at home. I think, one day, network manager will be the way to go. For now, I'll have to rely on ifplugd and whereami. -- derek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
Felix Homann wrote: > On Friday 21 April 2006 19:18, Derek Broughton wrote: >> It might break yours, but it was the way interface control was moving >> before we ever _had_ wpa_supplicant, so it would have been really nice if >> the wpa_supplicant developers had moved in step with the rest of the >> world. > > As I see it, even without the new configuration options network > configuration was done in /etc/network/interfaces, wpa_supplicant was and > is just a means to connect to an available AP and do the encryption, key > handling etc.. > >> And I've been trying (and failing) to keep all my network information >> in /etc/network/interfaces for three years. > > After all, I too think that it is good to have the new options, since they > might be of use for some people. But that does not justify breaking > working setups on upgrade. You're right... -- derek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
On Friday 21 April 2006 19:18, Derek Broughton wrote: > Freddie Cash wrote: > It might break yours, but it was the way interface control was moving > before we ever _had_ wpa_supplicant, so it would have been really nice if > the wpa_supplicant developers had moved in step with the rest of the world. As I see it, even without the new configuration options network configuration was done in /etc/network/interfaces, wpa_supplicant was and is just a means to connect to an available AP and do the encryption, key handling etc.. > And I've been trying (and failing) to keep all my network information > in /etc/network/interfaces for three years. After all, I too think that it is good to have the new options, since they might be of use for some people. But that does not justify breaking working setups on upgrade. Clean and easy upgrades have always been one of Debian's priorities and the most important reason I switched from SuSE to Debian about 6 years ago. Regards, Felix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
fredag 21 april 2006 18:54 skrev Freddie Cash: > On Fri, April 21, 2006 5:30 am, Felix Homann wrote: > > (I would *not* recommend to use the new configuration scheme proposed > > by the wpa_supplicant maintainers. It's not useful for a system in > > changing environments. Use the "old" or "deprecated" init script. > > There's currently a lot of discussion about this on the respective > > mailing list.) > > Oh good, so I'm not the only one who can't stand the > "new-world-order". Putting everything into the interfaces file breaks > all the nice, automatic, "it-just-works" configs I had. Took me I vote for the 'all in interfaces' solution. Actually.. I vote for the nothing in interfaces solution. I want network-manager asap. Anders -- - Debian GNU/Linux - KDE 3.5.2 - KMail 1.9.1 - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
Am Freitag, 21. April 2006 18:54 schrieb Freddie Cash: > What is it with Linux devs that they have to change everything that > works to something that barely works for the next three releases? Why > can't they just keep the things that work? wpa_supplicant has been > running perfectly on all my FreeBSD systems for almost a year now, and > is now broken on all my Linux systems. I like the new config style better. Additionally, you can still enable a multi-home style by specifying wpa-conf and bring the network interface up. Just read /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.modes I have a fixed WLAN at home and the new config fits this case perfectly (and I had an equal solution already scripted). And after all, the upstream wpa_supplicant documentation is very bad. The old script can be found at /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/examples/wpasupplicant.roaming-daemon HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
fredag 21 april 2006 19:01 skrev Derek Broughton: > >> hi all > >> i'd like to know if there is some GUI in KDE 3.3 that lets me > >> reconfigure the eth0 network interface each time i move from a network > >> to another one, to set up again IP address, gateway ecc... > > > > network-manager is what I would recommend, but it has just barely become > > available in unstable, and if you want the kde applet, it is only > > available as an ubuntu package. > > Is that really working? I tried it some time ago, and it was essentially > non-funtional - but it looked promising. Well. At least it does automatic dhcp configuration on my laptop for my 'wired' network card, with a completely empty /etc/network/interfaces (except for the loopback interface). And the kde applet shows a message when you pull out the cable and insert it again. So that part works. However the applet can't seem to actually locate any of the information for neither the wired network card or the Intel Pro Wireless 2200 card, so you can't actually do anything useful with the applet. It only displays the message when you pull out or insert a network cable. Thus I can't configure the wireless network, which was the primary purpose for installing network-manager. I suspect the problem is that the ipw2200 module which comes with the stock debian kernel is simply too old. But if I wanted to replace it I would have to roll my own kernel. That's what I used to do on my old laptop, but using stock has worked for me so far, so I would rather avoid having to compile my own kernel. For now I guess I will have to live with a network cable plugged in while using linux. Anders -- - Debian GNU/Linux - KDE 3.5.2 - KMail 1.9.1 - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
Freddie Cash wrote: > On Fri, April 21, 2006 5:30 am, Felix Homann wrote: >> (I would *not* recommend to use the new configuration scheme proposed >> by the wpa_supplicant maintainers. It's not useful for a system in >> changing environments. Use the "old" or "deprecated" init script. >> There's currently a lot of discussion about this on the respective >> mailing list.) > > Oh good, so I'm not the only one who can't stand the > "new-world-order". Putting everything into the interfaces file breaks > all the nice, automatic, "it-just-works" configs I had. It might break yours, but it was the way interface control was moving before we ever _had_ wpa_supplicant, so it would have been really nice if the wpa_supplicant developers had moved in step with the rest of the world. > What is it with Linux devs that they have to change everything that > works to something that barely works for the next three releases? Why > can't they just keep the things that work? wpa_supplicant has been > running perfectly on all my FreeBSD systems for almost a year now, and > is now broken on all my Linux systems. And I've been trying (and failing) to keep all my network information in /etc/network/interfaces for three years. -- derek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
On Friday 21 April 2006 18:54, Freddie Cash wrote: > Oh good, so I'm not the only one who can't stand the > "new-world-order". Putting everything into the interfaces file breaks > all the nice, automatic, "it-just-works" configs I had. Took me > almost three days to get things to a semi-functional, > "works-with-1-network" state using the interfaces file. Hi Freddie, I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one who doesn't like it, especially when it comes to breaking working setups on upgrade. Could you please tell your opinion to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list as well. At the moment I'm mostly alone in expressing my dissent. If you're interested in the discussion that's currently going on there, here's the archive: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-wpa-devel/2006-April/ Kind regards, Felix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
Anders Ellenshøj Andersen wrote: > fredag 21 april 2006 12:53 skrev roberto: >> hi all >> i'd like to know if there is some GUI in KDE 3.3 that lets me >> reconfigure the eth0 network interface each time i move from a network >> to another one, to set up again IP address, gateway ecc... > > network-manager is what I would recommend, but it has just barely become > available in unstable, and if you want the kde applet, it is only > available as an ubuntu package. Is that really working? I tried it some time ago, and it was essentially non-funtional - but it looked promising. -- derek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
On Fri, April 21, 2006 5:30 am, Felix Homann wrote: > (I would *not* recommend to use the new configuration scheme proposed > by the wpa_supplicant maintainers. It's not useful for a system in > changing environments. Use the "old" or "deprecated" init script. > There's currently a lot of discussion about this on the respective > mailing list.) Oh good, so I'm not the only one who can't stand the "new-world-order". Putting everything into the interfaces file breaks all the nice, automatic, "it-just-works" configs I had. Took me almost three days to get things to a semi-functional, "works-with-1-network" state using the interfaces file. Unfortunately, this was a new install of Kubuntu Dapper which does not have any of the deprecated scripts lying around. :( What is it with Linux devs that they have to change everything that works to something that barely works for the next three releases? Why can't they just keep the things that work? wpa_supplicant has been running perfectly on all my FreeBSD systems for almost a year now, and is now broken on all my Linux systems. Freddie Cash, LPCI-1 CCNT CCLPHelpdesk / Network Support Tech. School District 73(250) 377-HELP [377-4357] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
fredag 21 april 2006 12:53 skrev roberto: > hi all > i'd like to know if there is some GUI in KDE 3.3 that lets me > reconfigure the eth0 network interface each time i move from a network > to another one, to set up again IP address, gateway ecc... network-manager is what I would recommend, but it has just barely become available in unstable, and if you want the kde applet, it is only available as an ubuntu package. Anders -- - Debian GNU/Linux - KDE 3.5.2 - KMail 1.9.1 - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
On 4/21/06, Derek Broughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If everything you need is provided by DHCP, then merely installing ifplugd > will do the job. It will take down your network interface when it loses a > connection & it will bring it back up when it detects a linkbeat. When it > comes back up, DHCP will provide all the correct routing and DNS info. > ok. i'll see if "ifplugd" is what i am looking for; probably there is no need for GUIs thank you -- roberto OS: GNU/Linux, Debian Sarge
Re: network configuration
On Friday 21 April 2006 04:53, roberto wrote: > hi all > i'd like to know if there is some GUI in KDE 3.3 that lets me > reconfigure the eth0 network interface each time i move from a network > to another one, to set up again IP address, gateway ecc... > > > thank you! > -- > roberto > OS: GNU/Linux, Debian Sarge I use a combination of ifplugd, guessnet, resolvconf to automatically detect which network I am plugged into. The only configuration I do is to modify the /etc/network/interfaces file. Mine is shown below: # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5). # The loopback network interface auto lo iface lo inet loopback # The primary network interface # turn off since ifplugd is controlling things #auto eth0 mapping eth0 script /usr/sbin/guessnet-ifupdown map default: none map timeout: 3 map verbose: true iface work inet dhcp test peer address 155.98.7.82 00:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX pre-up hostname puppy.mech.utah.edu iface home inet static address 192.168.1.5 netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.1.0 broadcast 192.168.1.255 gateway 192.168.1.1 dns-nameservers 209.210.176.8 209.210.176.9 test peer address 192.168.1.1 00:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX: pre-up hostname puppy Notes: The "test peer address" lines are for guessnet. This test determines which network you are hooked into based on "pinging" a specific machine with its MAC address specified (obfuscated with XX). The "dns-nameservers" is for resolvconf which takes over the management of dns nameservers. For my dhcp connection dns nameservers are given to me, whereas, for my static home connection, I specify them. ifplugd determines if I am connected to the network. All the packages, "ifplugd, guessnet, and resolvconf" are in Debian. John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
roberto wrote: > i'd like to know if there is some GUI in KDE 3.3 that lets me > reconfigure the eth0 network interface each time i move from a network > to another one, to set up again IP address, gateway ecc... > Not so far as I have ever heard. However, it depends how much configuration you really need. If everything you need is provided by DHCP, then merely installing ifplugd will do the job. It will take down your network interface when it loses a connection & it will bring it back up when it detects a linkbeat. When it comes back up, DHCP will provide all the correct routing and DNS info. For more complicated situations there are tools such as whereami, but they don't have guis. -- derek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: network configuration
On Friday 21 April 2006 12:53, roberto wrote: > hi all > i'd like to know if there is some GUI in KDE 3.3 that lets me > reconfigure the eth0 network interface each time i move from a network > to another one, to set up again IP address, gateway ecc... > Do you really depend on a GUI? If not I would recommend using ifplugd and maybe guessnet (if there are non-DHCP networks involved) to do it automatically and in addition wpa_supplicant if there's a WLAN involved in your setup. (I would *not* recommend to use the new configuration scheme proposed by the wpa_supplicant maintainers. It's not useful for a system in changing environments. Use the "old" or "deprecated" init script. There's currently a lot of discussion about this on the respective mailing list.) Regards, Felix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
network configuration
hi all i'd like to know if there is some GUI in KDE 3.3 that lets me reconfigure the eth0 network interface each time i move from a network to another one, to set up again IP address, gateway ecc... thank you! -- roberto OS: GNU/Linux, Debian Sarge
