Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On Tuesday 18 February 2014 09:41:49 y...@marupa.net wrote: I personally don't see why that feature is very important. Maybe some people really like it, but I see that as one of the cruft features of X11 that has badly needed to be taken out. Definitely not worth the development man-hours to maintain to please a small minority where remote desktop is more efficient on the network. But really, X11's network capabilities have become woefully network heavy and extremely slow even with compression thanks to the billions of protocols X11 requires to be a modern window system. Does Wayland provide for something like Xvfb or Xnest? These are really important for running automated testcases. Typically you have a buildserver like jenkins with lots of virtual displays, performing GUI tests and other GUI operations. This is an area where Windows sucks very badly, because it simply doesn't have something like that. And now imagine something goes wrong in one build job, e.g. you have a deadlock in your testcase, because a modal dialog pops up or whatever. If you can't reproduce the problem locally, you log into the buildserver and run the same build, but redirect the output to your own local display. Or you create a screenshot of the virtual display with xwd, so that you can have a peek into what's happening in there. I hope that Wayland has a solution for this. Cheers Carsten signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
I've used X forwarding for resource heavy GUI apps, such as Gephi. Due to your average cafe hipster wanting to be a modern trend setter, lots of projects are unfortunately specifically designed and packaged for Ubuntu. I can either sit here for a weekend and get something like Tilemill properly running under Debian, or dump the thing into a throw away Ubuntu virtual machine and X forward that crap over. X forwarding has its uses. -- Rubin ru...@starset.net signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On 20/02/14 02:57, Rubin Abdi wrote: I've used X forwarding for resource heavy GUI apps, such as Gephi. As have I, and Xdmcp (see Subject title). But both are a lot less efficient, and have less applications than X2Go. Due to your average cafe hipster wanting to be a modern trend setter, lots of projects are unfortunately specifically designed and packaged for Ubuntu. Cafe hipsters? (I'm not going to comment on the Ubuntu um, silliness) Don't forget those that have the luxury of high speed internet connections and/or high powered computers, which most of the world *doesn't* have - both of which are base requirements if you want to use X forwarding for graphically intensive remote displays. The alternatives like using HTML5 have considerable advantages without the limitations and failings of X forwarding. I can either sit here for a weekend and get something like Tilemill properly running under Debian, or dump the thing into a throw away Ubuntu virtual machine and X forward that crap over. X forwarding has its uses. So does sticky tape, but it doesn't mean I won't consider nails and screws ;) Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/53052f9e.60...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 04:24:46 AM Nick Boyce wrote: On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 17:20:24 -0600 y...@marupa.net wrote: On Monday, February 17, 2014 09:38:47 PM Sune Vuorela wrote: On 2014-02-17, Nick Boyce n...@glimmer.adsl24.co.uk wrote: Thanks, I guess that explains it ... well mostly ... I had thought that Wayland was just an optional alternative to X for the major desktops for a long time to come, but that article seems to state that it'll be Wayland or nothing, sometime soon. [...] Wayland is coming. Martin Graesslin (who occasionally reads here) is running stuff there. My phone is running wayland. So it is coming soon. [...] I welcome the change. X11 needs to be retired. On the grounds of efficiency, short code paths, clean simple APIs, ability to properly exploit the hardware, etc. etc. I'd have to agree - but won't X's ability to carry display traffic from one machine to another be sorely missed by some people ? I seem to recall reading something about shims for that, but I wonder quite how well it would work (more reading to do). Nick As I mentioned before. Wayland itself doesn't support it, but it's been stated by the Wayland team a number of times one could create a network transparent compositor or even some other sort of client that sits between render requests to the Wayland library from the compositor. I don't think it should be on Wayland to provide network transparency. I personally don't see why that feature is very important. Maybe some people really like it, but I see that as one of the cruft features of X11 that has badly needed to be taken out. Definitely not worth the development man-hours to maintain to please a small minority where remote desktop is more efficient on the network. But really, X11's network capabilities have become woefully network heavy and extremely slow even with compression thanks to the billions of protocols X11 requires to be a modern window system. I don't know if XWayland provides any of the network features of X11, like XDCMP or X Forwarding. Conrad -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2604036.Kh3xGvrPOL@twilight
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On 18/02/14 04:24, Nick Boyce wrote: won't X's ability to carry display traffic from one machine to another be sorely missed by some people ? I won't - I use x2go for this. It's so much better than raw X, I've never bothered with raw X since discovering it. Whether or not future KDE versions work in x2go sessions is another matter... alex -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5303a52c.40...@ale.cx
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On 18/02/14 19:08, Erwan David wrote: Le 18/02/2014 19:23, Alex DEKKER a écrit : Whether or not future KDE versions work in x2go sessions is another matter... It's not a matter of KDE or other desktop environment It is a matter on individual programs. I am not certain about that. Surely KDE reaches X through Qt? As such I don't think it's down to KDE, but I don't know. alex -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5303b90f.8080...@ale.cx
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:41:49 -0600 y...@marupa.net wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 04:24:46 AM Nick Boyce wrote: On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 17:20:24 -0600 y...@marupa.net wrote: On Monday, February 17, 2014 09:38:47 PM Sune Vuorela wrote: Wayland is coming. I welcome the change. X11 needs to be retired. [...] but won't X's ability to carry display traffic from one machine to another be sorely missed by some people ? [...] I personally don't see why that feature is very important. Maybe some people really like it, but I see that as one of the cruft features of X11 that has badly needed to be taken out. Well .. I've always thought it's a cool feature, to be able to run a program on one machine that displays its window(s) on a different machine - but I admit that over many years, in many different projects, working for a variety of employers, I've never once had the use case for that feature :) Definitely not worth the development man-hours to maintain to please a small minority where remote desktop is more efficient on the network. I guess you're right there. Cheers Nick -- Never FDISK after midnight -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140218231353.4...@glimmer.adsl24.co.uk
[OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
Sorry - this isn't strictly a Debian KDE question, but I figure somebody here will know something about this. In the latest KDE Commit-Digest (Issue 322, dated 12th.Jan.2014) [1] the following very terse and (to me) bizarre statement is made : KDM has been removed ... KDM goes the way of the Dodo. It's exactly, to the day, 6 years ago that we released KDE 4.0, while this is of course entirely unrelated to this commit, let's celebrate this anniversary with the deletion of kdm from kde-workspace. There is no explanation for this, no clarification about a replacement of some sort. A quick bit of googling for such terms as KDM removal [why] reveals nothing. Can anyone here enlighten me please ? I'm just trying to stay educated :) [1] http://commit-digest.org/issues/2014-01-12/ Cheers, Nick -- Never FDISK after midnight -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140217161311.7...@glimmer.adsl24.co.uk
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On Monday, February 17, 2014 04:13:11 PM Nick Boyce wrote: Sorry - this isn't strictly a Debian KDE question, but I figure somebody here will know something about this. In the latest KDE Commit-Digest (Issue 322, dated 12th.Jan.2014) [1] the following very terse and (to me) bizarre statement is made : KDM has been removed ... KDM goes the way of the Dodo. It's exactly, to the day, 6 years ago that we released KDE 4.0, while this is of course entirely unrelated to this commit, let's celebrate this anniversary with the deletion of kdm from kde-workspace. There is no explanation for this, no clarification about a replacement of some sort. A quick bit of googling for such terms as KDM removal [why] reveals nothing. Can anyone here enlighten me please ? I'm just trying to stay educated :) [1] http://commit-digest.org/issues/2014-01-12/ Cheers, Nick http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/03/plasma-workspaces-2-coming-to-wayland-kdm-not-invited/ Conrad -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1471342.VQ9vtyPor6@twilight
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:27:42 -0600 y...@marupa.net wrote: On Monday, February 17, 2014 04:13:11 PM Nick Boyce wrote: In the latest KDE Commit-Digest KDM has been removed ... KDM goes the way of the Dodo. A quick bit of googling for such terms as KDM removal [why] reveals nothing. Can anyone here enlighten me please ? [...] http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/03/plasma-workspaces-2-coming-to-wayland-kdm-not-invited/ Thanks, I guess that explains it ... well mostly ... I had thought that Wayland was just an optional alternative to X for the major desktops for a long time to come, but that article seems to state that it'll be Wayland or nothing, sometime soon. Anyway, your link mentions the replacements (which perhaps the KDE commit-digest might have done). I have a lot of reading to do Thanks again. Nick -- Never FDISK after midnight -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140217201358.1...@glimmer.adsl24.co.uk
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On 2014-02-17, Nick Boyce n...@glimmer.adsl24.co.uk wrote: Thanks, I guess that explains it ... well mostly ... I had thought that Wayland was just an optional alternative to X for the major desktops for a long time to come, but that article seems to state that it'll be Wayland or nothing, sometime soon. Anyway, your link mentions the replacements (which perhaps the KDE commit-digest might have done). Wayland is coming. Martin Graesslin (who occasionally reads here) is running stuff there. My phone is running wayland. So it is coming soon. /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ldtvh7$9kp$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On Monday, February 17, 2014 09:38:47 PM Sune Vuorela wrote: On 2014-02-17, Nick Boyce n...@glimmer.adsl24.co.uk wrote: Thanks, I guess that explains it ... well mostly ... I had thought that Wayland was just an optional alternative to X for the major desktops for a long time to come, but that article seems to state that it'll be Wayland or nothing, sometime soon. Anyway, your link mentions the replacements (which perhaps the KDE commit-digest might have done). Wayland is coming. Martin Graesslin (who occasionally reads here) is running stuff there. My phone is running wayland. So it is coming soon. /Sune I welcome the change. X11 needs to be retired. Conrad -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/6828528.5guWgc8NT1@twilight
Re: [OT] KDM No Longer In KDE ?!?
On 2014-02-18, Nick Boyce n...@glimmer.adsl24.co.uk wrote: agree - but won't X's ability to carry display traffic from one machine to another be sorely missed by some people ? I seem to recall reading something about shims for that, but I wonder quite how well it would work (more reading to do). The way Qt draws these days, with more and more being drawn with OpenGL, the way gtk works all makes plain x11-forwarding (or x11 over ssh) basically useless. More modern protocols like spice seems to be taking over here. /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ldv323$jc9$1...@ger.gmane.org
