Re: KDE 4 simply broken
Am Donnerstag, 14. Mai 2009 schrieb jedd: The little 'x' icon to clear the location bar, previously sensibly located on the left, right near the thing you would want to clear, is now located way over on the right and in my case appears to be a mini-icon for an openoffice impress document type. I just noticed that you can configure this: open the toolbar configuration dialog to edit the address toolbar. Drag the Clear Address bar action from the left side to the very top of the right side. Cheers, Carsten signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Tuesday 19 May 2009, Carsten Pfeiffer wrote: I just noticed that you can configure this: open the toolbar configuration dialog to edit the address toolbar. Drag the Clear Address bar action from the left side to the very top of the right side. Carsten - thank you so very much for finding this and letting me know! I just did it, and it works. Okay, sure, of my three toolbar icon sets, two of them relocated to the top, one started showing with text again, the other got larger, and the third disappeared, and konqueror crashed to drkonqi when I was in settings doing a 'change icon' on that clear location bar icon .. but perversely I now think of this as normal. After a few new konquerors to clear the cache of pre-loaded instances, it looks to be working fine. Jedd. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
Am Dienstag, 19. Mai 2009 schrieb jedd: I just did it, and it works. Okay, sure, of my three toolbar icon sets, two of them relocated to the top, one started showing with text again, the other got larger, and the third disappeared, and konqueror crashed to drkonqi when I was in settings doing a 'change icon' on that clear location bar icon .. but perversely I now think of this as normal. Sarcasm is probably the best way to deal with this for now ;-} Just to keep you happy I found out another thing: start up dolphin, open the settings dialog, general tab and check direct renaming (or something like that, I have the German version). Et voilà, you won't get the rename dialog anymore (not even in Konqueror). No gain without another oddity though: the settings you do in dolphin don't seem to apply immediately, at least I have to open another dolphin to get the changes. Cheers, Carsten signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Tuesday 19 May 2009, Carsten Pfeiffer wrote: Just to keep you happy I found out another thing: start up dolphin, open the settings dialog, general tab and check direct renaming (or something like that, I have the German version). Happy?! My nipples are tingling with delight over here! If you could keep working through my List of Gripes, that'd be great. ;) For the record - with the english version - you have to: Dolphin | Settings | Configure Dolphin | General | Rename inline I am both ecstatic and bewildered that setting something in Dolphin would change the way that Konqueror works. Jedd. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Baron wrote: KMail has (nothing new here) threading problems, will easily crash when moving/deleting message while a view is being stuffed (the user doesn't know when it is safe...). IMHO kmail is unusable due to this and other problems (just check the bug trackers), and what's more it has been this way for *years*. Data loss, crashes, connection problems, you name it. (I've used it for nearly a decade with many different accounts and systems.) I think it should be kept out of testing, and would file RC bugs if I didn't suspect the maintainers would reject them. Yes they are all upstream issues, but that doesn't mean Debian has to release the pile of junk. Might even help upstream to draw some conclusions. Cheers, Marcus -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoNMBsACgkQXjXn6TzcAQn9WgCfeLkQGJLs9SEEK7OBWpXgCEN3 zpUAoO1RV5vvxONKwE95UjuABoKVLE+h =6FSb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Nate Bargmann wrote: While I've been hit with some annoying bugs and a couple of lack of features like no system beep passed through Konsole, I've not seen the crashes. Wow, how did you do that? I get crashes several times a day from all over the place. Perhaps that has more to do with your video driver and kernel. I doubt it. I've filed a lot of crashes upstream and they are real. On the bright side, they are getting fixed quite rapidly so I'm optmistic. Cheers, Marcus -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoNMVAACgkQXjXn6TzcAQmyNwCg7F5X6zMIEWZT8Egky6JlPPKH o9kAoO9Du9M0UOAGDsuuHmMjXJhO6i0l =lOTB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
Hello, On 2009 m. May 15 d., Friday 12:04:27 Marcus Better wrote: IMHO kmail is unusable due to this and other problems (just check the bug trackers), and what's more it has been this way for *years*. Data loss, crashes, connection problems, you name it. (I've used it for nearly a decade with many different accounts and systems.) Plain wrong. Even your statements kmail is unusable and I've used it for nearly a decade are contradicting. If you keep using imho unusable client, it is your problem. I think it should be kept out of testing, and would file RC bugs if I didn't suspect the maintainers would reject them. Yes they are all upstream issues, but that doesn't mean Debian has to release the pile of junk. Might even help upstream to draw some conclusions. It is perfectly usable, I have also used it for 6 years (POP3 and IMAP), lost a few mails. Yes, it does crash sometimes, it does have connection problems on unreliable connections, but come on, it is a pretty nice mail client, restarting it usually solves most issues. If you hate kmail, switch to something else. Plain simple. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
Am Freitag 15 Mai 2009 11:15:04 schrieb Modestas Vainius It is perfectly usable, I have also used it for 6 years (POP3 and IMAP), lost a few mails. Yes, it does crash sometimes, it does have connection problems on unreliable connections, but come on, it is a pretty nice mail client, restarting it usually solves most issues. If you hate kmail, switch to something else. Plain simple. I can only second that, I used Kmail for nearly a decade too. And I think its perfectly usable, too. I had only a few minor crashes. And I had only minor crashes, if any, in the kde4 KMail, too. I especially didnt lose any Mail since kde4 and Im using it since its introduction in kde 4.1 (I think). greetz drz -- -- gpg fp: 5518 8F74 B2A0 E91A 6FAD 8AC8 C02C 6C6F C899 DC65 Public Key: http://rizzux.org/drz.asc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Thursday 14 May 2009, Sune Vuorela wrote: krunner looks in libexec dir as well, so it should work. You're absolutely right. For some reason, my command-line option within krunner had disabled itself. Turning it on again makes kdesu usable from krunner. OTOH, I see that to run an app as a different user or with a different priority, rather than Alt-O (Options) I now have to click on krunner's settings icon, then click on the krunner command line option settings icon ... and then ... KDE4 is in general identifying several bugs related to X. But you are claiming you haven't upgraded your X in 6 months? No no, of course not. But the graphics bugs popped up at the same time as KDE4. It may be happenstance - like the annoying keyboard and mouse problem relating to xorg's upgrades - so I'll go hunt down an earlier intel driver and see if that fixes my graphics artefacts problems. There is no quanta sources is unstable, so someone needs to do something. Else, I'm planning to close all open quanta bugs soon with a removed from debian. This would be sad, as it's still a very competent editor. With netbeans' future now a little dubious, it might even get some kind of resurgence in interest amongst KDE types. The bug - embarrassingly brief summary (sorry!) - that I reported is at : http://bugs.debian.org:80/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=523551 Lisandro seemed to be suggesting that this resolution was quite workable. If the package has been orphaned, well, that's a far bigger problem of course. cheers, Jedd. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On 2009-05-15, jedd j...@progsoc.org wrote: KDE4 is in general identifying several bugs related to X. But you are claiming you haven't upgraded your X in 6 months? No no, of course not. But the graphics bugs popped up at the same time as KDE4. It may be happenstance - like the annoying keyboard and mouse problem relating to xorg's upgrades - so I'll go hunt down an earlier intel driver and see if that fixes my graphics artefacts problems. The X people started putting newer X in unstable at the same time as we put kde4 in unstable. There is no quanta sources is unstable, so someone needs to do something. Else, I'm planning to close all open quanta bugs soon with a removed from debian. This would be sad, as it's still a very competent editor. With netbeans' future now a little dubious, it might even get some kind of resurgence in interest amongst KDE types. The bug - embarrassingly brief summary (sorry!) - that I reported is at : http://bugs.debian.org:80/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=523551 Lisandro seemed to be suggesting that this resolution was quite workable. If the package has been orphaned, well, that's a far bigger problem of course. quanta was part of the kdewebdev sources, but isn't any more, so it is gone. I have also pinged Andrew McMillan (a DD in that bug report) and told him the issues and encouraged him to do something about it. My personal interest in quanta is very low. I haven't run it except to test that it actually started when uploading new versions of kdewebdev-kde3 /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Modestas Vainius wrote: Plain wrong. Even your statements kmail is unusable and I've used it for nearly a decade are contradicting. For some values of use and usability... I've used it extensively, and even when it was too broken I switched to Thunderbird (which I cannot remember crashing, maybe once or so), I still used kmail occasionally (like once a week), if only because it was the default mail reader in KDE and I let it fire up kmail when clicking mailto: links. With KDE4 I really tried using it as my primary mail client again but had to give it up. Your statement restarting it usually solves most issues also seems, to my mind, to contradict the statement that it is usable - that's my subjective opinion of course, but I also don't think mainstream users find such issues in mail clients acceptable. If you hate kmail, switch to something else. Plain simple. My mail was about the suitability of kmail for release so there's no need to get personal. (And I don't hate kmail, I quite like its features which is why I spent time on bug reports and testing.) Cheers, Marcus -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoNO7oACgkQXjXn6TzcAQn47wCdEKOqstFrzD9xlhVqLwjFPqmu M5YAoPleKnwk3Vunzc9e9D7otyi6XKRc =Ub6Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
Hello, On 2009 m. May 15 d., Friday 12:54:02 Marcus Better wrote: Your statement restarting it usually solves most issues also seems, to my mind, to contradict the statement that it is usable - that's my subjective opinion of course, but I also don't think mainstream users find such issues in mail clients acceptable. Restarting, crashes etc. are very RARE cases. Bad things happen sometimes. You may argue that releasable == perfect, but the world itself is not perfect. The most important thing that there is nothing critical or grave about kmail. If you hate kmail, switch to something else. Plain simple. My mail was about the suitability of kmail for release so there's no need to get personal. (And I don't hate kmail, I quite like its features which is why I spent time on bug reports and testing.) Questioning suitability for release is declaring that kmail has problems which render it completely unusable for most people. You mentioned a bit annoying problems (most of which happen to be your pet bugs), but they do not render kmail unusable for others. My reaction was to your statement about keeping it from testing, not about your opinion which you are obviously entitled to. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
* Marcus Better mar...@better.se [2009 May 15 04:11 -0500]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Nate Bargmann wrote: While I've been hit with some annoying bugs and a couple of lack of features like no system beep passed through Konsole, I've not seen the crashes. Wow, how did you do that? I get crashes several times a day from all over the place. I don't know. I just use KDE as I always have. That said, I primarily browse with Iceweasel and that is about all I use this kaptop for except reading usenet with Pan. Once in a great while I'll fire up Konqueror but I do keep a Konsole open with three tabs. I even launch Xscreensaver instead of using the KDE one. Perhaps that has more to do with your video driver and kernel. I doubt it. I've filed a lot of crashes upstream and they are real. On the bright side, they are getting fixed quite rapidly so I'm optmistic. Other than Kwin, I'm probably not actually touching KDE all that much. The reason I started using it full time was its integration with hotplug devices such as insertion of a USB pen which wasn't handled at all by IceWM at the time. One thing I did was move my ~/.kde directory out of the way after it seemed Kaboom did nothing useful for me and reset my few customizations. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
Am Friday 15 May 2009 11:22:59 schrieb drz: Am Freitag 15 Mai 2009 11:15:04 schrieb Modestas Vainius It is perfectly usable, I have also used it for 6 years (POP3 and IMAP), lost a few mails. Yes, it does crash sometimes, it does have connection problems on unreliable connections, but come on, it is a pretty nice mail client, restarting it usually solves most issues. If you hate kmail, switch to something else. Plain simple. I can only second that, I used Kmail for nearly a decade too. And I think its perfectly usable, too. I had only a few minor crashes. And I had only minor crashes, if any, in the kde4 KMail, too. I especially didnt lose any Mail since kde4 and Im using it since its introduction in kde 4.1 (I think). greetz drz kmail is usable and its integration in kontact makes it worthwile for me to live with some minor issues for now: kmail stalls quite often (sometimes only kmail, sometimes the system for ~ 10 sec.) when moving/deleting mails, even crashes on me sometimes when deleting group of mails. i have not checked yet if these issues are fixed in 4.2.3 greetz ferdi -- Ferdi Thommes 2.Vorsitzender sidux e.V. _ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Fri May 15 2009 02:04:27 Marcus Better wrote: IMHO kmail is unusable due to this and other problems (just check the bug trackers), and what's more it has been this way for *years*. Data loss, crashes, connection problems, you name it. (I've used it for nearly a decade with many different accounts and systems.) Yes, KMail crashes more frequently than Windows 3.1. However, if used with IMAP (not POP3 and not offline IMAP) the crashes are not serious. 99% of the time KMail is OK after a restart. On rare occasions one must force it back to consistency by deleting all the files in ~/.kde/share/apps/kmail/imap/ (most of which are dot files). Since Evolution's downgrade, KMail is the only client I know of that works well with hundreds of mail folders. And for that I choose to live with software that explodes whenever the network times out. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Vie 15 May 2009 15:30:06 Mike Bird escribió: On Fri May 15 2009 02:04:27 Marcus Better wrote: IMHO kmail is unusable due to this and other problems (just check the bug trackers), and what's more it has been this way for *years*. Data loss, crashes, connection problems, you name it. (I've used it for nearly a decade with many different accounts and systems.) Yes, KMail crashes more frequently than Windows 3.1. However, if used with IMAP (not POP3 and not offline IMAP) the crashes are not serious. 99% of the time KMail is OK after a restart. On rare occasions one must force it back to consistency by deleting all the files in ~/.kde/share/apps/kmail/imap/ (most of which are dot files). I use offline imap, and I didn't have a crash of kmail since 4.2.1 (at least!) -- Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. -- Groucho Marx Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer http://perezmeyer.com.ar/ http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
El Viernes, 15 de Mayo de 2009, Modestas Vainius escribió: It is perfectly usable, I have also used it for 6 years (POP3 and IMAP), lost a few mails. Yes, it does crash sometimes, it does have connection problems on unreliable connections, but come on, it is a pretty nice mail client, restarting it usually solves most issues. If you hate kmail, switch to something else. Plain simple. +1 on the KDE3 version. I'm heavily using POP, and using very moderately IMAP, but I never ever lost an email, and I can't remember the last time I saw a crash. And I have almost 1GB of email, with folders with about 15.000 messages. I can't tell nothing about the KDE4 version, but since it was only released with KDE 4.1, certainly you can't say that it's been unstable for *years*. -- Alex -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Fri May 15 2009 13:23:41 Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer wrote: I use offline imap, and I didn't have a crash of kmail since 4.2.1 (at least!) I use airlines and have NEVER experienced a crash (although I've seen all the oxygen masks come down in a bad landing). The fact that a lot of people experience KMail crashes is more significant than the fact that a lot of people do not, even if the latter were to constitute a happy majority. KMail crashes seem to correlate (albeit not perfectly) with poor or heavily loaded network connections. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Friday 15 May 2009 03:15:07 jedd wrote: You seem to have some display corruptions. Especially the intel driver is currently known for having big issues with that. Yes, I've heard nasty rumours about the Intel driver being a bit dodgy, but I was using the same driver on xorg for the previous six months. Consequently I think it'd be a bit disingenuous to attribute my current, and quite chronic woes to a graphics driver that worked just fine with KDE 3.5.x Intel driver is very broken... I'm using a: Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller I find KDE4 totally unusable with it. I have reverted back to testing for my xorg config and things are working smmothly: apt-get --download install xserver-xorg/testing xserver-xorg-core/testing xserver-xorg-input-evdev/testing xserver-xorg-video-intel/testing xserver-xorg-input-mouse/testing xserver-xorg-input- synaptics/testing libgl1-mesa-dri/testing libgl1-mesa-glx/testing xserver-xorg-input-kbd/testing Have a look at http://bugs.debian.org/525231 Mark signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On 2009-05-14, jedd j...@progsoc.org wrote: Greetings, Hi! I just took a random look on your list of things - and there was several things being quite wrong. Your so-called akonadi-workaround isn't any kind of workaround, but a possibility for people who want to use the system running mysql. The plan is to avoid the system running mysql - and akonadi starts its own mysql instance. kdesu is a part of kde and fully available in your KDE libexec dir. alt f2 kdesu systemsettings - there you go. You seem to have some display corruptions. Especially the intel driver is currently known for having big issues with that. If someone wants to save quanta, they are free to do it. It is soon gone from debian unstable, if not already. And then you just found a few minor bugs. /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
My 2-cents Konqueror, whether using its native routines or webkit, has serious problems. Whole-screen operation is somewhat better but scrolling on a page is unpredictable and often unusable. KMail has (nothing new here) threading problems, will easily crash when moving/deleting message while a view is being stuffed (the user doesn't know when it is safe...). If the network connection is down, kmail slows considerably, even when not pop3ing messages--for what does it need the network when not downloading or displaying content? Kaboom did very partial job of converting for one use, failed entirely with no recourse on another. KDE4 (again, nothing new here) gingerly ingnores the file permissions that I as administrator wish to set up. This makes sharing if files between users nigh-impossible and can cripple it on startup by making that darned .ICEauthority inaccesible! Plasma, as of now, is quite stable but will crash out occasionally when tweaking applets and such. The option to use the old desktop folder--intuitive containment is there (crashed when I tried to use it and this is what kaboom should set up as a default, telling the user that there is an alternative!). If the folder-view applet could be used better (filter/criteria) to dedicate part of the screen for the old way enabling plasma's capabilities for the rest, this would be ideal. Plasma is at its infancy and holds tremendous potential as an versatile and innovative desktop platform! KDE4 is very slow when in starts. The problem is all those background processes, akonadi, nepomuk and such. I have a startup script to renice them which is a great improvement, ionice might be even better. User has little control over how many of these for each resource get created. After all this stuff has quieted down (resync'ed?), then KDE4 runs just fine! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
Hi Sune. Thank you responding. You're right (wrt the akonadi stuff) - it's something I got some help with from Michael, et al, on this list a little while back. I think cranking up another MySQL instance is not necessarily the most optimum approach for an application to do - and it might in fact be a distro / packaging issue. I respect that it's early days on this one, though. kdesu is a part of kde and fully available in your KDE libexec dir. alt f2 kdesu systemsettings - there you go. Okay, then I have the problem of /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/ not being in my path. I see that there's a kdesu_stub (part of kdelibs4 5) but that's not immediately helpful here of course. Is that really in the PATH for kde4? If so, any ideas why it's not for me and/or where would it normally be set, so I can track it down. I symlinked kdesu into ~/bin/ a while ago, but that wasn't much help either, but never returned to identify that problem. You seem to have some display corruptions. Especially the intel driver is currently known for having big issues with that. Yes, I've heard nasty rumours about the Intel driver being a bit dodgy, but I was using the same driver on xorg for the previous six months. Consequently I think it'd be a bit disingenuous to attribute my current, and quite chronic woes to a graphics driver that worked just fine with KDE 3.5.x If someone wants to save quanta, they are free to do it. It is soon gone from debian unstable, if not already. I've already filed a bug with this, and had a bit of a yak with the Debian developer, who seemed happy with my proposed solution (he thought he'd already done it, as it happens) - quanta will work fine in KDE4, it's just a (distribution-related) dependency problem. And then you just found a few minor bugs. Minor? I've gone from a fully functional, rock solid desktop environment with 14+ day uptimes (not bad for a netbook), to now using what is effectively beta-grade software for the six or so hours I now get between system crashes. We might have to agree to disagree on the scale of the bugs here. cheers, Jedd. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On 2009-05-14, jedd j...@progsoc.org wrote: kdesu is a part of kde and fully available in your KDE libexec dir. alt f2 kdesu systemsettings - there you go. Okay, then I have the problem of /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/ not being in my path. I see that there's a kdesu_stub (part of kdelibs4 5) but that's not immediately helpful here of course. Is that really in the PATH for kde4? If so, any ideas why it's not for me and/or where would it normally be set, so I can track it down. krunner looks in libexec dir as well, so it should work. You seem to have some display corruptions. Especially the intel driver is currently known for having big issues with that. Yes, I've heard nasty rumours about the Intel driver being a bit dodgy, but I was using the same driver on xorg for the previous six months. Consequently I think it'd be a bit disingenuous to attribute my current, and quite chronic woes to a graphics driver that worked just fine with KDE 3.5.x KDE4 is in general identifying several bugs related to X. But you are claiming you haven't upgraded your X in 6 months? If someone wants to save quanta, they are free to do it. It is soon gone from debian unstable, if not already. I've already filed a bug with this, and had a bit of a yak with the Debian developer, who seemed happy with my proposed solution (he thought he'd already done it, as it happens) - quanta will work fine in KDE4, it's just a (distribution-related) dependency problem. There is no quanta sources is unstable, so someone needs to do something. Else, I'm planning to close all open quanta bugs soon with a removed from debian. /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Thursday 14 May 2009 17:05:16 jedd wrote: I simply can't believe that every other unstable user, now using KDE 4, can be having the same types of experiences that I am and not talking (complaining) about them here. Another whinge, I'm afraid. From, where I am sitting, you count as one of the lucky ones. Since I installed Sid on my testbed box several weeks ago, I have had KDE4 working at all for a total of about 2 or 3 days. (This last update has restored it after another hiatus.) Fortunately, although a desire to find out for myself if KDE4 was as awful as it sounded was my main motivation, I also wanted to have a good look at XFCE4 and one or two WMs as possible replacements. I have therefore been able to have that good look at XFCE, which I suspect is going to be what I use next, anyhow for those I support. Not that I shall abandon KDE 3.x.x until I am dragged off it kicking and screaming. I found getting rid of the awful new menu was very easy. (I find moving, wobbly, transparent, jumping thinga not only unpleasant but at times actually painful.) And it would appear that I have avoided the worst of the bling, tho' that may be false impression due it the very small amount that I have managed to do on it at all. But it seems to be under the impression that bling is all-important and functionality an irrelevancy. I couldn't do even the most basic configuration. I have also convinced myself that I could not possibly manage with Sid on my main workhorse and simultaneously remain sane. I doff my hat to those of you who can cope!! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Thu May 14 2009 12:54:50 Lisi Reisz wrote: Not that I shall abandon KDE 3.x.x until I am dragged off it kicking and screaming. Amen. KDE 4 has been out well over a year. In fact it's more than two years since the first test release. I've tried it a two or three times and always run away screaming. There's no way I can force that on my users. An ENORMOUS thank you to the KDE team for leaving KDE 3.5 in Lenny. I hope they have a fall-back plan to deliver KDE 3.5 in Squeeze, because KDE 4 is going nowhere fast. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
While I've been hit with some annoying bugs and a couple of lack of features like no system beep passed through Konsole, I've not seen the crashes. Perhaps that has more to do with your video driver and kernel. Other than KDM refusing to start since upgrading to KDE4, after installing kernel 2.6.29-2 the video stuff was much improved (I'm using the Radeon driver). At the risk of starting a flame war, it seems as though some of GNOME's philosphy has rubbed off onto the KDE devs. They now seem to worry about confusing and too many options and seem intent on following GNOME's path toward dumbing down the interface. If both major desktops head off in that direction it may be time to look for a third option. On my main workstation I still run KDE 3.5.10 and even though it is Sid, it hasn't been updated for several months and it's running just fine. I'm keeping Sid current on a T41 laptop and will only update the desktop once I feel KDE4 is ready for my prime time. In fact, I still have OOo Calc 2.3 installed on this machine as some later version screwed up the sorting rather badly. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Thursday 14 May 2009 22:02:45 Mike Bird wrote: An ENORMOUS thank you to the KDE team for leaving KDE 3.5 in Lenny. I fully echo that. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
jedd said: I simply can't believe that every other unstable user, now using KDE 4, can be having the same types of experiences that I am and not talking (complaining) about them here. It is a terrible mess. I'm trying to use Kubuntu, so not quite the same thing. There's a lot of denial going on, imo. I've raised so many bugs in the past few weeks I've now given up; nothing seems to be getting fixed, although a few security fixes have come through. Almost all are regressions; mostly of very basic functionality. Some of the bugs are trivial, once you examine them, but they are show- stoppers. It's remarkable that the things were released. The fixes I've spent time on haven't been responded to. -- Best, Marc Big change requires small steps -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Пятница 15 мая 2009 01:12:00 marc wrote: It is a terrible mess. I'm trying to use Kubuntu, so not quite the same thing. There's a lot of denial going on, imo. I've raised so many bugs in the past few weeks I've now given up; nothing seems to be getting fixed, although a few security fixes have come through. Almost all are regressions; mostly of very basic functionality. Some of the bugs are trivial, once you examine them, but they are show- stoppers. It's remarkable that the things were released. The fixes I've spent time on haven't been responded to. I tried searching for gm...@auxbuss.com on bugs.kde.org, but it says The name gm...@auxbuss.com is not a valid username. Can you send me the mail address you use for bugs.kde.org ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
On Thursday 14 May 2009, Mike Bird wrote: On Thu May 14 2009 12:54:50 Lisi Reisz wrote: Not that I shall abandon KDE 3.x.x until I am dragged off it kicking and screaming. Amen. KDE 4 has been out well over a year. In fact it's more than two years since the first test release. I've tried it a two or three times and always run away screaming. There's no way I can force that on my users. I've done my share of complaining about KDE 4, here and elsewhere. Konqueror (as browser and filemanager), Akregator, and Plasma still regularly crash for me. I really hope that the most severe of these problems will be history soon. There are annoyingly missing missing or broken features as compared to 3.5.x. Several choices, mostly in the PIM area, seem misguided to me, more for the benefit of imagined corporate users than actual users. Still, I'm convinced that KDE 4 is the way forward. The underlying architectural changes, as far as I've come to know them, look like solid improvements to me. The problem with KDE 4 is neither stability nor missing or broken features. The problem is that it is billed as the current *release* of KDE, although judging it on its own (stability, misfeatures) as well as comparing it to KDE 3.5.x, shows that it is pretty clearly not ready for prime time. As a programmer myself, I fully appreciate the situation. It's much more enjoyable to develop something from scratch, implement exciting new features and eye candy, than it is to maintain and enhance old and crufty code. Even more so for people who work on KDE in their spare time. I don't think there is a happy solution, rather it boils down to a tough decision to be made by the KDE teams of the various distributions. Either way, a lot of users will be displeased. Michael -- Michael Schuerig mailto:mich...@schuerig.de http://www.schuerig.de/michael/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
Hello, On 2009 m. May 15 d., Friday 00:02:45 Mike Bird wrote: An ENORMOUS thank you to the KDE team for leaving KDE 3.5 in Lenny. I hope they have a fall-back plan to deliver KDE 3.5 in Squeeze, because KDE 4 is going nowhere fast. Definitely no. KDE 3 IS dead, just let it RIP. Apparently, there is NO interest in maintaining KDE 3 upstream despite some people complaining how bad KDE 4 got. I guess they just moved to other DEs instead of doing real work. Is KDE 4 that bad? Well, it depends. I would say: 1) It does not feel rock solid, plasma still looks more like a toy than an app to get the real work done. In general, eye candy is sometimes more emphasized than usability. But many problems are also video driver related. 2) It IS memory hog. Some memory leaks have been fixed, some small remain. 3) Neither it is fast, especially on startup. I also do not like direction KDE 4 has taken with a couple of its core technologies which lead to more bloat, but hey, I can still live with that. 4) It still has a lot of bugs. Typically, they are small issues but I see how some might be annoying for some people. 5) Will all that said, it is mostly the desktop itself which is problematic. Individual applications surpassed KDE 3.5 counterparts long time ago (with a few exceptions). So yes, KDE 4 desktop has many shortcomings. But is it worse than KDE 3.5? Probably no, because KDE 3.5 is not perfect either and it is UNMAINTAINED. Bugs are not getting fixed, it is aging rapidly and userbase is shrinking fast. So I would recommend not to delay inevitable and switch to KDE 4 or find another desktop which you like more right way. Nobody shold feel bad about not liking KDE 4. It is different and probably not for all KDE 3.5 users. However, there is a lot of WMs, DEs to choose from which are active MAINTAINED. Begging to keep KDE 3.5 won't save it. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
Nick Shaforostoff said: On Пятница 15 мая 2009 01:12:00 marc wrote: It is a terrible mess. I'm trying to use Kubuntu, so not quite the same thing. There's a lot of denial going on, imo. I've raised so many bugs in the past few weeks I've now given up; nothing seems to be getting fixed, although a few security fixes have come through. Almost all are regressions; mostly of very basic functionality. Some of the bugs are trivial, once you examine them, but they are show- stoppers. It's remarkable that the things were released. The fixes I've spent time on haven't been responded to. I tried searching for gm...@auxbuss.com on bugs.kde.org, but it says The name gm...@auxbuss.com is not a valid username. Can you send me the mail address you use for bugs.kde.org ? I'll email you. -- Best, Marc Big change requires small steps. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: KDE 4 simply broken
To provide a small light of hope we have an old server that still has kde 3.3 on it. It is amazingly horrible. You are lucky if you are just able to log in. So hopefully kde4.4 will be where it is at. Maybe a year down the road? (although I said a similar statement last year about kde4.1 and hoping for 4.2... Regardless I hate gnome so that isn't an option for me I don't think) Sam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
