Re: Packagers: What should we recommend about KDE 2 -> 3 upgrades?
On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 12:46:35PM +0100, Hendrik Sattler wrote: Content-Description: signed data > Am Donnerstag, 8. Januar 2004 01:35 schrieb Ross Boylan: > > My guess is the safest route would be to compile KDE 3 to use a > > different directory, such as ~/.kde3. Possibly there could be some > > conversion scripts available. Certainly there will then be "I lost my > > settings" complaints otherwise (but see below: KDE may already do the > > conversion). > > That makes a dead hidden directory in user's home and needs completely new > settings. Very bad e.g. for KMail. Agreed. Even worse if KMail stores its data under .kde (I don't know if it does). > > > Alternately, it might be possible to deal with this entirely at > > install time, or via some script magic that affects each user on their > > first start of the new package (again, maybe KDE does this already). > > Package installation is not allowed to change anything in the user's > home. A script that ran when the user started KDE would not, I think, run afoul of the directive that packages shouldn't mess with home directories. > If KDE's apps cannot handle it why being thinking about a monster script? As I said, there are indications that KDE actually does do this (migrate the .kde settings). The reason to be thinking of it is that it's very undesirable to leave users (at least some portion of those who upgrade major versions) with something that doesn't work in whole or in part. > > > The least attractive alternative, still better than nothing, is a > > warning in the appropriate packages, during installs, and somewhere in > > a README. > > That's what READE.Debian is for (Debconf should not be used for that). It may be the case that everything just works. But if it doesn't, I disagree that a README.Debian note is an adequate way to deal with the problem. Even a NEWS item (not sure how it works under the covers) is not much warning, since I don't think there's any assurance that upgraders will use a tool that presents them with NEWS. Perhaps the way the postgres package dealt with a major incompatible version upgrade would be a clue (maybe xfree as well), but that's a different situation. The upgrade doesn't work at all til you do a conversion. *If* there is a problem with KDE it's likely more subtle.
Re: Packagers: What should we recommend about KDE 2 -> 3 upgrades?
On Thursday 08 of January 2004 00:18, Ruth A. Kramer wrote: > For this lurker, can you clarify what you mean by "remove (not > purge)"? Do you mean stop the program but not delete the > files? Or ?? No, this is for users of apt-get (or aptitude, which is my case). There you have an option either to remove (i.e., delete all files installed by package, but keep configuration files) or purge (do both) package. Matej -- Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC 138 Highland Ave. #10, Somerville, Ma 02143, (617) 623-1488 The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money. -- Alexis de Tocqueville pgph3odVLt53I.pgp Description: signature
Re: Packagers: What should we recommend about KDE 2 -> 3 upgrades?
Ross Boylan writes: > I asked about this earlier, but want to raise it a bit more > forcefully now, because subsequent conversations have reinforced my > belief that the upgrade path will not work smoothly because of > changes in the interpretation of configuration files, especially > ~/.kde, between the two versions. This should normally not be a problem. I have personally only seem problems when going from newer kde versions to older, the other way around should be fine. It is possible thought that you lose your kdm settings, as these are stored in a different place in kde3 than kde2. > I would be delighted to find such precautions are not necessary, but > I'm concerned that they are. If you experience any problems with this, please file a bug report about it using the command line tool reportbug(1). > So perhaps upgrading KDE while running KDE is risky... well for > other reasons too--you'll be uninstalling the KDE that you are > running! It may be the case that you experience problems when installing a new KDE version while the old one is still running. I'm not sure about that, please file a bug report if you experience something like this. cheers domi
Re: Packagers: What should we recommend about KDE 2 -> 3 upgrades?
Matej Cepl wrote: > Probably, the safest way is to remove (not purge!) whole KDE from > the computer and the install KDE 3.* again. I did this with > transfer from KDE which is part of woody to 3.1.4 and I do not > see any substantial problems with that. For this lurker, can you clarify what you mean by "remove (not purge)"? Do you mean stop the program but not delete the files? Or ?? Randy Kramer
Re: Packagers: What should we recommend about KDE 2 -> 3 upgrades?
Am Donnerstag, 8. Januar 2004 01:35 schrieb Ross Boylan: > My guess is the safest route would be to compile KDE 3 to use a > different directory, such as ~/.kde3. Possibly there could be some > conversion scripts available. Certainly there will then be "I lost my > settings" complaints otherwise (but see below: KDE may already do the > conversion). That makes a dead hidden directory in user's home and needs completely new settings. Very bad e.g. for KMail. > Alternately, it might be possible to deal with this entirely at > install time, or via some script magic that affects each user on their > first start of the new package (again, maybe KDE does this already). Package installation is not allowed to change anything in the user's home. If KDE's apps cannot handle it why being thinking about a monster script? > The least attractive alternative, still better than nothing, is a > warning in the appropriate packages, during installs, and somewhere in > a README. That's what READE.Debian is for (Debconf should not be used for that). HS -- Mein GPG-Key ist auf meiner Homepage verfügbar: http://www.hendrik-sattler.de oder über pgp.net PingoS - Linux-User helfen Schulen: http://www.pingos.org pgpVc2ZoZtGkn.pgp Description: signature
Re: Packagers: What should we recommend about KDE 2 -> 3 upgrades?
On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 11:37:30PM -0500, Matej Cepl wrote: > On Wednesday 07 of January 2004 19:35, Ross Boylan wrote: > > I would like to raise an issue for the Debian KDE package > maintainers: > > will someone who has been running woody KDE 2.2 run into > troubles if > > they upgrade to 3.x? And if so, what should we do about this? > > Probably, the safest way is to remove (not purge!) whole KDE from > the computer and the install KDE 3.* again. I did this with > transfer from KDE which is part of woody to 3.1.4 and I do not > see any substantial problems with that. > > Matej > It's reassuring to hear a positive report. However, note that even a purge will not touch users' ~/.kde directories, which are the most likely source of problems. I may have overstated the KDE FAQ's support for the claim that the upgrade should go OK. It includes (item 4.16) the statement "There were mixed reports of results between some previous versions of KDE," which isn't quite a glowing endorsement of the upgrade process.
Re: Packagers: What should we recommend about KDE 2 -> 3 upgrades?
On Wednesday 07 of January 2004 19:35, Ross Boylan wrote: > I would like to raise an issue for the Debian KDE package maintainers: > will someone who has been running woody KDE 2.2 run into troubles if > they upgrade to 3.x? And if so, what should we do about this? Probably, the safest way is to remove (not purge!) whole KDE from the computer and the install KDE 3.* again. I did this with transfer from KDE which is part of woody to 3.1.4 and I do not see any substantial problems with that. Matej -- Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC 138 Highland Ave. #10, Somerville, Ma 02143, (617) 623-1488 He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know. -- Abraham Lincoln
