Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Pierre Habouzit]

Le lun 21 août 2006 04:49, Ross Boylan a écrit :
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2006 at 07:46:47AM -0500, Matej Cepl wrote:
> > Larry Garfield wrote:
> > > On a related note, what exactly is sieve?  I've seen Debian
> > > packages for it, and KMail mentions it, but I haven't found any
> > > decent documentation on how exactly to USE it.  It *appears* to
> > > be a client-controlled, server-implemented set of filters.  If
> > > I'm right, then I really would like to know how to use it. :-) 
> > > If not, then what exactly is it?
> >
> > It is what you think it is, but the biggest problem is that it has
> > to be supported by the IMAP server (which is not that common) and
> > even more important it has to be set available by the server
> > administrator (I have never met IMAP server which would allow me to
> > use SIEVE).
> >
> > Matej
>
> Recent versions of exim also support sieve.
>
> The sieve specification is in an RFC, and there are a number of
> extensions floating around.

last dovecot do know about sieve, if you use its lda.

Though, the language is specified in a RFC, now how to modify it, I've 
never tested kmail sieve functionalities, so I don't know if it works 
with anything else than cyrus imapd implementation.
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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Ross Boylan]

On Fri, Mar 17, 2006 at 07:46:47AM -0500, Matej Cepl wrote:
> Larry Garfield wrote:
> > On a related note, what exactly is sieve?  I've seen Debian packages for
> > it, and KMail mentions it, but I haven't found any decent documentation on
> > how exactly to USE it.  It *appears* to be a client-controlled,
> > server-implemented set of filters.  If I'm right, then I really would like
> > to know how to use it. :-)  If not, then what exactly is it?
> 
> It is what you think it is, but the biggest problem is that it has to be
> supported by the IMAP server (which is not that common) and even more
> important it has to be set available by the server administrator (I have
> never met IMAP server which would allow me to use SIEVE).
> 
> Matej
> 

Recent versions of exim also support sieve.

The sieve specification is in an RFC, and there are a number of
extensions floating around.

Ross Boylan


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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Derek Broughton]

Mihai Maties wrote:

> I did some research a while ago when I found out about SIEVE and concluded
> that the best choice on the server to be used would be cyrus-imapd.

I'm pretty sure that for an OSS solution, it's currently the _only_
solution.  I'm working on a sieve interface for maildrop/procmail

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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Mihai Maties]

On Friday 17 March 2006 17:09, Larry Garfield wrote:
> On Friday 17 March 2006 06:46, Matej Cepl wrote:
> > Larry Garfield wrote:
> > > On a related note, what exactly is sieve?  I've seen Debian packages
> > > for it, and KMail mentions it, but I haven't found any decent
> > > documentation on how exactly to USE it.  It *appears* to be a
> > > client-controlled, server-implemented set of filters.  If I'm right,
> > > then I really would like to know how to use it. :-)  If not, then what
> > > exactly is it?
> >
> > It is what you think it is, but the biggest problem is that it has to be
> > supported by the IMAP server (which is not that common) and even more
> > important it has to be set available by the server administrator (I have
> > never met IMAP server which would allow me to use SIEVE).
>
> Hm.  Well, I run my own IMAP server so I can set up whatever I need.  I
> just haven't found any decent info on doing so.  Do you know where I could
> find any?  (Preferably that doesn't start with "first change these thousand
> settings and compile.")

Now I got the chance to read my emails from this folder and I can comment on 
this matter. 

I did some research a while ago when I found out about SIEVE and concluded 
that the best choice on the server to be used would be cyrus-imapd. After 
using this setup for quite a while I can confirm that I'm happy with my setup 
(postfix/cyrus-imapd with sieve filters on a debian sarge). You don't have to 
recompile anything, just read the docs and configure the server, it's not 
that difficult.

Another nice thing about using server-side filtering would be that you'll have 
the possibility to install IMP/HORDE and have your emails organized in the 
same way in webmail as in your IMAP client. (If you choose to install HORDE 
you'll have a nice web application to edit the filters, too)


Mihai


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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Steven Ihde]

Alejandro Exojo wrote:
>El Jueves, 16 de Marzo de 2006 22:49, Steven Ihde escribió:
>> Using KMail's disconnected IMAP seems like it should work.  There's just
>> one problem -- checking for new mail is so slow it's unusable.  It takes 
>> more than five minutes to do one check for mail -- every time.  It spends
>> most of the time in the "uploading status of messages" phase.  I have about
>> 16000 messages in the folder -- should I expect dimap to perform well in
>> this situation?  Using KMail's regular imap, a check for new mail on the
>> same folder is virtually instantaneous.
>
>KMail stores some special status of messages in its binary indexes:
>
>http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-pim&m=112707919726650&w=2
>
>I suppose that KMail does some kind of trick to store this special status in 
>the server. Maybe this is causing the slowdown.

I doubt that this is correct.  KMail doesn't store this status on the server 
at all, it keeps it only in its local database.  This can be observed by 
connecting to the same server with different KMails.  The two KMails will 
keep their own completely independent sets of "To Do" flags.  However, 
Read/Unread and Replied status is propagated -- KMail sets these flags on the 
server using the IMAP protocol.  

I'm not sure why KMail's dimap upload is so slow.  My guess is that it is 
updating the status of all messages, even those that haven't changed.  
Offlineimap can sync much faster.  It seems to use a better method of 
synchronization.

>> I also tried using the script "offlineimap" to maintain a cache on the
>> laptop disk.  But the problem here is that KMail doesn't propagate the "To
>> Do" flag (or any other flags except the basic read/unread status AFAICT) to
>> the server, so the cached copy doesn't get the flag status.  :-(  Is there
>> a way to force KMail to store the flags on the server instead of in its
>> cached copy of the headers?
>
>Its very likely that the offlineimap program doesn't understand kmail's 
>indexes, so it simply ignores them, and the changes are not propagated to the 
>server.

KMail's indexes are not related.  Offlineimap (at least the way I'm using it) 
doesn't look at mails on disk, it connects to the IMAP server.  The only 
information it gets is from the IMAP server.  Assuming the IMAP server 
doesn't understand KMail's indexes (which I'm sure it doesn't) of course the 
IMAP server won't know anything about the To Do status either.

However, KMail could in theory store the To Do flag on the server by setting 
the flag with using the IMAP protocol.  Some servers (including Courier) 
allow clients to set arbitrary server-side flags.

-Steve


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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Alejandro Exojo]

El Jueves, 16 de Marzo de 2006 22:49, Steven Ihde escribió:
> Using KMail's disconnected IMAP seems like it should work.  There's just
> one problem -- checking for new mail is so slow it's unusable.  It takes 
> more than five minutes to do one check for mail -- every time.  It spends
> most of the time in the "uploading status of messages" phase.  I have about
> 16000 messages in the folder -- should I expect dimap to perform well in
> this situation?  Using KMail's regular imap, a check for new mail on the
> same folder is virtually instantaneous.

KMail stores some special status of messages in its binary indexes:

http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-pim&m=112707919726650&w=2

I suppose that KMail does some kind of trick to store this special status in 
the server. Maybe this is causing the slowdown.

> I also tried using the script "offlineimap" to maintain a cache on the
> laptop disk.  But the problem here is that KMail doesn't propagate the "To
> Do" flag (or any other flags except the basic read/unread status AFAICT) to
> the server, so the cached copy doesn't get the flag status.  :-(  Is there
> a way to force KMail to store the flags on the server instead of in its
> cached copy of the headers?

Its very likely that the offlineimap program doesn't understand kmail's 
indexes, so it simply ignores them, and the changes are not propagated to the 
server.

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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Matej Cepl]

Larry Garfield wrote:
> Hm.  Well, I run my own IMAP server so I can set up whatever I need.  I
> just
> haven't found any decent info on doing so.  Do you know where I could find
> any?  (Preferably that doesn't start with "first change these thousand
> settings and compile.")

Go to that Wikipedia page
 and you will
get what's available (apparently, Cyrussoft took down a lot of information
when they went bankrupt).

Matej

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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Derek Broughton]

Freddie Cash wrote:

> On Fri, March 17, 2006 7:09 am, Larry Garfield wrote:
>> On Friday 17 March 2006 06:46, Matej Cepl wrote:
> 
>>> It is what you think it is, but the biggest problem is that it has
>>> to be supported by the IMAP server (which is not that common) and
>>> even more important it has to be set available by the server
>>> administrator (I have never met IMAP server which would allow me to
>>> use SIEVE).
> 
>> Hm.  Well, I run my own IMAP server so I can set up whatever I need.
>> I just haven't found any decent info on doing so.  Do you know where
>> I could find any?  (Preferably that doesn't start with "first change
>> these thousand settings and compile.")
> 
> With Courier-IMAP and DoveCot, you'll want to use maildrop for
> server-side filtering.  SIEVE, AFAIU, is currently only usable with
> Cyrus IMAP servers.  I've yet to find any information on using SIEVE
> with anything else.

_I'd_ want to use Maildrop, too, but don't forget Procmail, which is surely
an older way to do the same thing.
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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Freddie Cash]

On Fri, March 17, 2006 7:09 am, Larry Garfield wrote:
> On Friday 17 March 2006 06:46, Matej Cepl wrote:
>> Larry Garfield wrote:
>>> On a related note, what exactly is sieve?  I've seen Debian
>>> packages for it, and KMail mentions it, but I haven't found any
>>> decent documentation on how exactly to USE it.  It *appears* to be
>>> a client-controlled, server-implemented set of filters.  If I'm
>>> right, then I really would like to know how to use it. :-)  If
>>> not, then what exactly is it?

>> It is what you think it is, but the biggest problem is that it has
>> to be supported by the IMAP server (which is not that common) and
>> even more important it has to be set available by the server
>> administrator (I have never met IMAP server which would allow me to
>> use SIEVE).

> Hm.  Well, I run my own IMAP server so I can set up whatever I need.
> I just haven't found any decent info on doing so.  Do you know where
> I could find any?  (Preferably that doesn't start with "first change
> these thousand settings and compile.")

With Courier-IMAP and DoveCot, you'll want to use maildrop for
server-side filtering.  SIEVE, AFAIU, is currently only usable with
Cyrus IMAP servers.  I've yet to find any information on using SIEVE
with anything else.

There's lot of information out there on the Courier and Postfix sites
for configuring maildrop to work with Courier.


Freddie Cash, LPCI-1 CCNT CCLPHelpdesk / Network Support Tech.
School District 73(250) 377-HELP [377-4357]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Larry Garfield]

On Friday 17 March 2006 06:46, Matej Cepl wrote:
> Larry Garfield wrote:
> > On a related note, what exactly is sieve?  I've seen Debian packages for
> > it, and KMail mentions it, but I haven't found any decent documentation
> > on how exactly to USE it.  It *appears* to be a client-controlled,
> > server-implemented set of filters.  If I'm right, then I really would
> > like to know how to use it. :-)  If not, then what exactly is it?
>
> It is what you think it is, but the biggest problem is that it has to be
> supported by the IMAP server (which is not that common) and even more
> important it has to be set available by the server administrator (I have
> never met IMAP server which would allow me to use SIEVE).

Hm.  Well, I run my own IMAP server so I can set up whatever I need.  I just 
haven't found any decent info on doing so.  Do you know where I could find 
any?  (Preferably that doesn't start with "first change these thousand 
settings and compile.")

-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]   ICQ: 6817012

"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of 
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, 
which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to 
himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession 
of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it."  -- Thomas 
Jefferson


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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Matej Cepl]

Larry Garfield wrote:
> On a related note, what exactly is sieve?  I've seen Debian packages for
> it, and KMail mentions it, but I haven't found any decent documentation on
> how exactly to USE it.  It *appears* to be a client-controlled,
> server-implemented set of filters.  If I'm right, then I really would like
> to know how to use it. :-)  If not, then what exactly is it?

It is what you think it is, but the biggest problem is that it has to be
supported by the IMAP server (which is not that common) and even more
important it has to be set available by the server administrator (I have
never met IMAP server which would allow me to use SIEVE).

Matej

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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis)]

On Friday 17 March 2006 07:07, Larry Garfield wrote:
> On a related note, what exactly is sieve?  I've seen Debian packages for
> it, and KMail mentions it, but I haven't found any decent documentation
> on how exactly to USE it.  It *appears* to be a client-controlled,
> server-implemented set of filters.  If I'm right, then I really would
> like to know how to use it. :-)  If not, then what exactly is it?

sieve is a standard language for defining filters, often implemented in imap 
servers. See for example 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_(mail_filtering_language)
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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Larry Garfield]

On Thursday 16 March 2006 23:12, Matej Cepl wrote:
> Larry Garfield wrote:
> > I can't use normal IMAP, because last I heard normal IMAP does not
> > support filtering of emails from the IMAP inbox to another IMAP folder. 
> > It only does that with disconnected IMAP.
>
> It should be OK IMHO with KDE 3.5.1.

Hm, that would be nice.  Should clear up some disk space, too.  I'll 
experiment and see if that's the case.  (Have to be careful to not lose 
anything just in case the current sync isn't perfect.)

On a related note, what exactly is sieve?  I've seen Debian packages for it, 
and KMail mentions it, but I haven't found any decent documentation on how 
exactly to USE it.  It *appears* to be a client-controlled, 
server-implemented set of filters.  If I'm right, then I really would like to 
know how to use it. :-)  If not, then what exactly is it?

-- 
Larry Garfield  AIM: LOLG42
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   ICQ: 6817012

"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of 
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, 
which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to 
himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession 
of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it."  -- Thomas 
Jefferson


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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Matej Cepl]

Larry Garfield wrote:
> I can't use normal IMAP, because last I heard normal IMAP does not support
> filtering of emails from the IMAP inbox to another IMAP folder.  It only
> does that with disconnected IMAP.

It should be OK IMHO with KDE 3.5.1.

Matej

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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Matej Cepl]

Steven Ihde wrote:
> It spends most of
> the time in the "uploading status of messages" phase.  I have about
> 16000 messages in the folder -- should I expect dimap to perform well in
> this situation?

This may be the problem -- KMail really does IMHO (I am not a programmer,
and I have never read KMail source code) what it claims to do -- uploading
status of 16,000 messages and it may take a lot of time. I really believe
that you should do something about the organization of your folders :-)

Matej

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Re: Setting KMail's To Do flag

[Larry Garfield]

I have a very similar setup myself, with the same problem.  
(Sarger/postfix/courier-imap mail server and KDE 3.5/Sid desktop on the same 
LAN.)

In 3.4, I had the same problem but according to top kio_imap was the biggest 
process.  In 3.5 it seems to be kmail.  The resulting symptoms are the same, 
however.  Auto-checking email every 5 minutes means that every 5 minutes my 
computer (Athlon 2100+, so not a pushover) starts going all herky jerky.  
KMail is barely usable, as scrolling skips all over the place in spurts.  

I can't use normal IMAP, because last I heard normal IMAP does not support 
filtering of emails from the IMAP inbox to another IMAP folder.  It only does 
that with disconnected IMAP.  

This has been a problem for a long time.  I do not know what the cause or 
solution is, sadly, but if anyone else knows I'd love to find out.  

On Thursday 16 March 2006 15:49, Steven Ihde wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I hope someone can suggest a solution to my problem.  I want to maintain a
> cached copy of email on my laptop disk so I can:
>
> 1. Set KMail's "To Do" flag (or something similar) while at work, and then
> 2. deal with mails marked "To Do" while I'm on the train with no net
> connectivity.
>
> Using KMail's disconnected IMAP seems like it should work.  There's just
> one problem -- checking for new mail is so slow it's unusable.  It takes 
> more than five minutes to do one check for mail -- every time.  It spends
> most of the time in the "uploading status of messages" phase.  I have about
> 16000 messages in the folder -- should I expect dimap to perform well in
> this situation?  Using KMail's regular imap, a check for new mail on the
> same folder is virtually instantaneous.
>
> I also tried using the script "offlineimap" to maintain a cache on the
> laptop disk.  But the problem here is that KMail doesn't propagate the "To
> Do" flag (or any other flags except the basic read/unread status AFAICT) to
> the server, so the cached copy doesn't get the flag status.  :-(  Is there
> a way to force KMail to store the flags on the server instead of in its
> cached copy of the headers?
>
> BTW, the IMAP server is Courier running on a sarge box, and is under my
> control if it makes any difference.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve

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"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of 
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, 
which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to 
himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession 
of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it."  -- Thomas 
Jefferson


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