Re: broken kde notifications
On Monday 07 June 2010 00.29:34 Modestas Vainius wrote: [GNOME and KDE fighting over notifications] There is nothing for us to fix. Maintainers are not responsible for the messed up configuration of your system. I think this is a bit a narrow minded view. There may be nothing wrong at the package dependencies level, but *if* it can (easily) be reproduced, packagers and upstream alike should be involved. Cross project coordination (like, making GNOME and KDE play together nicely) is what Linnux distributions are all about because the upstream developers often don't care much about this. Note that I don't see any cause for action on this specific issue beyond perhaps try to help the OP debug where the problem comes from. Ritesh: if you log out, then remove .xsession errors (from remote or a text console login or whatever), then log in: maybe you can see something suspicious there. Also: is there anything in any .xsessionrc or /etc/X11/Xsession.d file that might start any gnome component? Any leftover entries in .kde or .local/.config (sorry, you'll have to hunt around. I'm not familiar enough with the desktop stuff to know where autostart stuff is hiding.) cheers -- vbi (and if this sounds like a rant at the start, then because it should. The GNOME vs. KDE divide is hurting Linux on the Desktop a lot in my opinion. Stuff like I configured my [KDE] desktop to use a pale pink color, but Gimp/oo.org/Firefox/... don't take this setting (also: web proxy settings, whatever) are easy to understand if one knows the technical background but are a no-go area for beginners/non-techies who just want their computer to work. Projects like freedesktop.org have helped a lot, but there's still a long way to go.) -- By the most objective criteria, death is the greatest obstacle to marriage. -- Russel Coker http://etbe.coker.com.au/2009/01/30/support-straight-marriage/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
Thanks Modestas, On Monday 07 Jun 2010 03:59:34 Modestas Vainius wrote: There is nothing for us to fix. Maintainers are not responsible for the messed up configuration of your system. In KDE 3 times, if you ran any GNOME app, gnome-setttings-daemon would take over your desktop (wallpaper, shortcuts etc.). So if this still happens to a lesser extent nowadays, that's a rough life but it is not really a job of KDE to fight GNOME at all costs. It is the job of GNOME to be friendly. Looks like I haven't used GNOME in a very long time. If you want to complain to somebody, complain to the maintainers of the offensive application which triggered this for you (maybe some self-centric gnome (or whatever?) configuration tool?). Finally, KDE should not go against user wishes if (s)he wants to use notification-daemon for whatever reason. It got pulled in through a Recommends of ogmrip (which is from debian- multimedia) 12:17:19 r...@champaran:/tmp/kde-rrs/notification-daemon/usr/share $ aptitude why notification-daemon i ogmrip Dependslibnotify1 (= 0.4.5) i A libnotify1 Recommends notification-daemon As Kevin said, you should better find out how notification-daemon ended up being started before plasma-desktop behind your back. That would be interesting. I guess this might be the cause. 12:17:14 r...@champaran:/tmp/kde-rrs/notification-daemon/usr/share $ cat dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service [D-BUS Service] Name=org.freedesktop.Notifications Exec=/usr/lib/notification-daemon/notification-daemon Ritesh -- Ritesh Raj Sarraf | http://people.debian.org/~rrs signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
Hello, On pirmadienis 07 Birželis 2010 09:52:33 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: As Kevin said, you should better find out how notification-daemon ended up being started before plasma-desktop behind your back. That would be interesting. I guess this might be the cause. 12:17:14 r...@champaran:/tmp/kde-rrs/notification-daemon/usr/share $ cat dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service [D-BUS Service] Name=org.freedesktop.Notifications Exec=/usr/lib/notification-daemon/notification-daemon Oh yeah, so apparently, notification-daemon thinks it is the only one capable of providing this service. As far as I understand, *.service files serve the purpose of startup on demand and the same service can't be specified by multiple applications. Unless I'm wrong, I would open a bug against notification-daemon if I were you. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
Hello, On pirmadienis 07 Birželis 2010 09:01:39 Adrian von Bidder wrote: On Monday 07 June 2010 00.29:34 Modestas Vainius wrote: [GNOME and KDE fighting over notifications] There is nothing for us to fix. Maintainers are not responsible for the messed up configuration of your system. I think this is a bit a narrow minded view. There may be nothing wrong at the package dependencies level, but *if* it can (easily) be reproduced, packagers and upstream alike should be involved. Cross project coordination (like, making GNOME and KDE play together nicely) is what Linnux distributions are all about because the upstream developers often don't care much about this. Probably I should have said KDE maintainers. KDE does nothing wrong here and is not acting offensive. But if we added conflicts, that would be harsh! -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
broken kde notifications
Hi, Since one of the recent updates in the last one week, I have lost KDE's notification ability. All KDE notifications now pop up through some some GNOME notification UI. Here's the link to the screenshot. http://www.researchut.com/tmp/knotify.jpeg Any ideas? Regards, Ritesh -- Given the large number of mailing lists I follow, I request you to CC me in replies for quicker response -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/te2sd7-2fl@news.researchut.com
Re: broken kde notifications
Hello, On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 11:22:21 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: Hi, Since one of the recent updates in the last one week, I have lost KDE's notification ability. All KDE notifications now pop up through some some GNOME notification UI. Here's the link to the screenshot. http://www.researchut.com/tmp/knotify.jpeg Terminate GNOME processes? -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
Hello Modestas, On Sunday 06 Jun 2010 14:24:27 Modestas Vainius wrote: Here's the link to the screenshot. http://www.researchut.com/tmp/knotify.jpeg Terminate GNOME processes? I'm not sure what you mean here. The screenshot shows kopete notifying through some GNOME notification. My installation tends to be gnome minimal. Acutally, I don't have any gnome apps installed. Whatever is there is mostly libs pulled as dependencies. Can you be specific on what GNOME processes ? My check did not yield even a single one. I do have a bunch of gtk processes (wicd, virt-manager) Ritesh -- Ritesh Raj Sarraf | http://people.debian.org/~rrs signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
Hello, On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 12:50:40 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: Hello Modestas, On Sunday 06 Jun 2010 14:24:27 Modestas Vainius wrote: Here's the link to the screenshot. http://www.researchut.com/tmp/knotify.jpeg Terminate GNOME processes? I'm not sure what you mean here. The screenshot shows kopete notifying through some GNOME notification. My installation tends to be gnome minimal. Acutally, I don't have any gnome apps installed. Whatever is there is mostly libs pulled as dependencies. Can you be specific on what GNOME processes ? My check did not yield even a single one. I do have a bunch of gtk processes (wicd, virt-manager) I don't know, I'm not a GNOME expect nor I want to be. But afaik notifications are desktop-independent and relayed through DBus. So there is a GNOME application listening on the specific DBus signal (I guess `qdbus org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications` stuff) and preventing KDE plasma desktop from taking the service over. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
On Sunday, 2010-06-06, Modestas Vainius wrote: Hello, On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 12:50:40 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: Hello Modestas, On Sunday 06 Jun 2010 14:24:27 Modestas Vainius wrote: Here's the link to the screenshot. http://www.researchut.com/tmp/knotify.jpeg Terminate GNOME processes? I'm not sure what you mean here. The screenshot shows kopete notifying through some GNOME notification. My installation tends to be gnome minimal. Acutally, I don't have any gnome apps installed. Whatever is there is mostly libs pulled as dependencies. Can you be specific on what GNOME processes ? My check did not yield even a single one. I do have a bunch of gtk processes (wicd, virt-manager) I don't know, I'm not a GNOME expect nor I want to be. But afaik notifications are desktop-independent and relayed through DBus. So there is a GNOME application listening on the specific DBus signal (I guess `qdbus org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications` stuff) and preventing KDE plasma desktop from taking the service over. Probably notification-daemon or notify-osd. Once a process claims specified D-Bus name for the notification system, it owns it. All other programs capable of being a notification provider just don't get any of the calls. So if this happens with a clean session, something might have either invoked the other notification provider before plasma-desktop could claim it or something created a notification and D-Bus decided to activate one (not sure if any of the notification providers install a .service file for that though) Cheers, Kevin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
Thanks. Purging notification-daemon solved the problem. Should the kde-full or kde-desktop metapackage have a conflicts on stuff like these ? An end user will not be aware how the notifications went broken. Ritesh Kevin Krammer wrote: On Sunday, 2010-06-06, Modestas Vainius wrote: Hello, On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 12:50:40 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: Hello Modestas, On Sunday 06 Jun 2010 14:24:27 Modestas Vainius wrote: Here's the link to the screenshot. http://www.researchut.com/tmp/knotify.jpeg Terminate GNOME processes? I'm not sure what you mean here. The screenshot shows kopete notifying through some GNOME notification. My installation tends to be gnome minimal. Acutally, I don't have any gnome apps installed. Whatever is there is mostly libs pulled as dependencies. Can you be specific on what GNOME processes ? My check did not yield even a single one. I do have a bunch of gtk processes (wicd, virt-manager) I don't know, I'm not a GNOME expect nor I want to be. But afaik notifications are desktop-independent and relayed through DBus. So there is a GNOME application listening on the specific DBus signal (I guess `qdbus org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications` stuff) and preventing KDE plasma desktop from taking the service over. Probably notification-daemon or notify-osd. Once a process claims specified D-Bus name for the notification system, it owns it. All other programs capable of being a notification provider just don't get any of the calls. So if this happens with a clean session, something might have either invoked the other notification provider before plasma-desktop could claim it or something created a notification and D-Bus decided to activate one (not sure if any of the notification providers install a .service file for that though) Cheers, Kevin -- Given the large number of mailing lists I follow, I request you to CC me in replies for quicker response -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/if3td7-8pl@news.researchut.com
Re: broken kde notifications
Hello: El Domingo, 6 de Junio de 2010, Ritesh Raj Sarraf escribió: Thanks. Purging notification-daemon solved the problem. Should the kde-full or kde-desktop metapackage have a conflicts on stuff like these ? An end user will not be aware how the notifications went broken. Ritesh Pretty please, don't top post ;) Going into the issue, it happens that I have notification-daemon installed and I do have plasma notifications. I wonder why. Regards, [...] -- Raúl Sánchez Siles -Proud Debian user- Linux registered user #416098 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
On Sunday, 2010-06-06, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: Thanks. Purging notification-daemon solved the problem. Should the kde-full or kde-desktop metapackage have a conflicts on stuff like these ? An end user will not be aware how the notifications went broken. I don't think this can be solved at a packaging level, a system might be serving multiple kinds of desktops to different users. The interesting bit of information would be how the wrong notification provider got started, e.g. whether it was launched by another process or created through D-Bus activation. In the first case it would be interesting to know which program that was and why it does that. In the second case it would be interesting to see if D-Bus can be told to start the correct one. Cheers, Kevin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
Hello, On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 20:45:54 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: Thanks. Purging notification-daemon solved the problem. Should the kde-full or kde-desktop metapackage have a conflicts on stuff like these ? An end user will not be aware how the notifications went broken. Now ask yourself if it really makes sense for KDE to conflict with GNOME at packaging level. My reaction would be: huh, KDE and GNOME cannot be installed on the system, wtf? -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
On Monday 07 Jun 2010 01:21:49 Modestas Vainius wrote: Hello, On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 20:45:54 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: Thanks. Purging notification-daemon solved the problem. Should the kde-full or kde-desktop metapackage have a conflicts on stuff like these ? An end user will not be aware how the notifications went broken. Now ask yourself if it really makes sense for KDE to conflict with GNOME at packaging level. My reaction would be: huh, KDE and GNOME cannot be installed on the system, wtf? Okay!! But please fix this. If I have a KDE DE and a bunch of gtk/gnome tools which pull in notification-daemon, KDE's notification gets hijacked. -- Ritesh Raj Sarraf | http://people.debian.org/~rrs signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
On Sunday, 2010-06-06, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: On Monday 07 Jun 2010 01:21:49 Modestas Vainius wrote: Hello, On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 20:45:54 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: Thanks. Purging notification-daemon solved the problem. Should the kde-full or kde-desktop metapackage have a conflicts on stuff like these ? An end user will not be aware how the notifications went broken. Now ask yourself if it really makes sense for KDE to conflict with GNOME at packaging level. My reaction would be: huh, KDE and GNOME cannot be installed on the system, wtf? Okay!! But please fix this. If I have a KDE DE and a bunch of gtk/gnome tools which pull in notification-daemon, KDE's notification gets hijacked. Do you have any of these tools in autostart or in a saved session? notification-daemon needs to start before plasma-desktop to be able to successfully claim the D-Bus name. Cheers, Kevin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: broken kde notifications
On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Ritesh Raj Sarraf r...@debian.org wrote: Thanks. Purging notification-daemon solved the problem. Should the kde-full or kde-desktop metapackage have a conflicts on stuff like these ? An end user will not be aware how the notifications went broken. Ritesh Please no. Personally, I use notification-daemon in kde, as I find it somewhat better than the kde notifications, which are quite broken in 4.4 (but used to be fine in 4.3), so such a conflict would just give me a nightmare. Note that notification-daemon doesn't start automatically if it is installed. It starts together with gnome applications, so you are probably running a gnome application that causes the trouble. In an ideal world, gnome applications should detect and use the kde notification system, just like kde does with the gnome one. I'm not sure about the details, but I bet this is something to be fixed in gnome. Regards, George -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktilblpbias5jwxdnagarzrb20wf61kcv8izn8...@mail.gmail.com
Re: broken kde notifications
Hello, On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 23:02:53 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: On Monday 07 Jun 2010 01:21:49 Modestas Vainius wrote: Hello, On sekmadienis 06 Birželis 2010 20:45:54 Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: Thanks. Purging notification-daemon solved the problem. Should the kde-full or kde-desktop metapackage have a conflicts on stuff like these ? An end user will not be aware how the notifications went broken. Now ask yourself if it really makes sense for KDE to conflict with GNOME at packaging level. My reaction would be: huh, KDE and GNOME cannot be installed on the system, wtf? Okay!! But please fix this. If I have a KDE DE and a bunch of gtk/gnome tools which pull in notification-daemon, KDE's notification gets hijacked. There is nothing for us to fix. Maintainers are not responsible for the messed up configuration of your system. In KDE 3 times, if you ran any GNOME app, gnome-setttings-daemon would take over your desktop (wallpaper, shortcuts etc.). So if this still happens to a lesser extent nowadays, that's a rough life but it is not really a job of KDE to fight GNOME at all costs. It is the job of GNOME to be friendly. If you want to complain to somebody, complain to the maintainers of the offensive application which triggered this for you (maybe some self-centric gnome (or whatever?) configuration tool?). Finally, KDE should not go against user wishes if (s)he wants to use notification-daemon for whatever reason. As Kevin said, you should better find out how notification-daemon ended up being started *before* plasma-desktop behind your back. That would be interesting. -- Modestas Vainius modes...@vainius.eu signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
