Re: Debtags facet for classification non-free packages
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enrice Zini suggested more elegant system on: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/debtags-devel/2005-November/001029.html This is better, but misses quite a few common cases. OTTOMH, there are also restrictions on distributing adapted versions, making private changes, arbitrary termination clauses, indemnification, clickwrap and restricting other unrelated software. I'm disappointed that so much effort is being made to encourage use of non-free. PS: I'm not on th -legal list, so please cc me (or do reply-to-all). Done. I am on -legal, please do not cc me when posting to it. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Clarification regarding PHP License and DFSG status
Pierre wrote: Rasmus just commited the PHP License 3.01 http://cvs.php.net/co.php/php-src/LICENSE?r=1.24 I think the problems are solved in this new version. Please review it and let us know that everything is fine. It was a pain to get that changed but it is done. [Cc'd to Pierre because I'm not sure who us is here.] Sorry, I've reviewed it and everything is not fine. The change seems extremely minor. It still seems to require people to lie about the derivation of their software and is seeking to use copyright to make a super-trademark, if the PHP License is used for things not authored by the PHP Group (like much of PEAR?). Further, the super-trademark clause 4 seems to contradict itself: PHP may not appear in names, but one can call software Thing for PHP. This licence still lets PHP follow DFSG, but seems inappropriate for other software. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Clarification regarding PHP License and DFSG status
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:40:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pierre wrote: Rasmus just commited the PHP License 3.01 http://cvs.php.net/co.php/php-src/LICENSE?r=1.24 I think the problems are solved in this new version. Please review it and let us know that everything is fine. It was a pain to get that changed but it is done. [Cc'd to Pierre because I'm not sure who us is here.] Sorry, I've reviewed it and everything is not fine. The change seems extremely minor. It still seems to require people to lie about the derivation of their software and is seeking to use copyright to make a super-trademark, if the PHP License is used for things not authored by the PHP Group (like much of PEAR?). Further, the super-trademark clause 4 seems to contradict itself: PHP may not appear in names, but one can call software Thing for PHP. This licence still lets PHP follow DFSG, but seems inappropriate for other software. They are minor but required and enough to fix the legal problems. This license is now suitable for other software than php. I'm no lawyer, I only ask some I know and got an OK. As far as I can tell, the clause 4 is irrelevant, I do not like this clause neither (as far as I remember, it is the reason why the PHP License is not GPL compatible). What I was meaning with us is that everyone in the debian project involved in this area and with a good knowledge about licenses problems (and specifically with the pear/php packages) could give me an ok if everything is fine from a legal point of view. Thanks for the feedbacks, Regards, --Pierre -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Clarification regarding PHP License and DFSG status
Scripsit Pierre [EMAIL PROTECTED] They are minor but required and enough to fix the legal problems. This license is now suitable for other software than php. I disagree. It still requires that non-PHP software lie about its content: | 6. Redistributions of any form whatsoever must retain the following | acknowledgment: | This product includes PHP software, freely available from | http://www.php.net/software/. The license also contains claims that are simply not true for software whose copyright is not held by the PHP Group: | 5. [...] No one other than the PHP Group has the right to modify the | terms applicable to covered code created under this License. -- Henning MakholmVi skal nok ikke begynde at undervise hinanden i den store regnekunst her, men jeg vil foreslå, at vi fra Kulturministeriets side sørger for at fremsende tallene og også give en beskrivelse af, hvordan man læser tallene. Tak for i dag! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Clarification regarding PHP License and DFSG status
Pierre [EMAIL PROTECTED] They are minor but required and enough to fix the legal problems. This license is now suitable for other software than php. I'm no lawyer, I only ask some I know and got an OK. I'm not sure whether making people lie is a legal problem, but I feel it's wrong. That's why I call the licence inappropriate or unsuitable for software besides PHP, rather than saying it does not follow the DFSG. Do you think that this licence does not require a developer of a modified package (other than PHP) to lie by saying This product includes PHP software? For now, I stand by my view: PHP under this licence follows the DFSG, but it's inappropriate for software other than PHP itself, including much of PEAR. An obvious fix is to limit clause 6 to products derived from PHP, or to make clauses 4 to 6 and the disclaimer not PHP-specific. Hope that helps, -- MJ Ray - personal email, see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Work: http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ irc.oftc.net/slef Jabber/SIP ask -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Clarification regarding PHP License and DFSG status
* MJ Ray: Do you think that this licence does not require a developer of a modified package (other than PHP) to lie by saying This product includes PHP software? Perhaps the PHP folks subscribe to the view that PHP scripts are derivative works of PHP. Then it wouldn't be lying, would it? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Clarification regarding PHP License and DFSG status
Florian Weimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * MJ Ray: Do you think that this licence does not require a developer of a modified package (other than PHP) to lie by saying This product includes PHP software? Perhaps the PHP folks subscribe to the view that PHP scripts are derivative works of PHP. Then it wouldn't be lying, would it? They still don't *include* PHP. There's a huge difference between require and include. -- Måns Rullgård [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Clarification regarding PHP License and DFSG status
On Wed, Nov 23, 2005 at 03:08:24PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote: * MJ Ray: Do you think that this licence does not require a developer of a modified package (other than PHP) to lie by saying This product includes PHP software? Perhaps the PHP folks subscribe to the view that PHP scripts are derivative works of PHP. Ye ghods, I'd hope not. That would be similar to believing that this message is a derivative of the English Grammar manual I read in school. - Matt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Clarification regarding PHP License and DFSG status
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:37:10 + MJ Ray wrote: [...] For now, I stand by my view: PHP under this licence follows the DFSG, but it's inappropriate for software other than PHP itself, including much of PEAR. I don't agree. It seems that the PHP license still suffers from the issues that were pointed out in previous threads. I'll quote it entirely for future reference. The PHP License, version 3.01 Copyright (c) 1999 - 2005 The PHP Group. All rights reserved. Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, is permitted provided that the following conditions are met: 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. 3. The name PHP must not be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without prior written permission. For written permission, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4. Products derived from this software may not be called PHP, nor may PHP appear in their name, without prior written permission from [EMAIL PROTECTED] You may indicate that your software works in conjunction with PHP by saying Foo for PHP instead of calling it PHP Foo or phpfoo 5. The PHP Group may publish revised and/or new versions of the license from time to time. Each version will be given a distinguishing version number. Once covered code has been published under a particular version of the license, you may always continue to use it under the terms of that version. You may also choose to use such covered code under the terms of any subsequent version of the license published by the PHP Group. No one other than the PHP Group has the right to modify the terms applicable to covered code created under this License. 6. Redistributions of any form whatsoever must retain the following acknowledgment: This product includes PHP software, freely available from http://www.php.net/software/. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE PHP DEVELOPMENT TEAM ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE PHP DEVELOPMENT TEAM OR ITS CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgpSUO6xxLChr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Clarification regarding PHP License and DFSG status
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 01:05:37 +0100 Francesco Poli wrote: [...] I'll quote it entirely for future reference. My comments follow. The PHP License, version 3.01 Copyright (c) 1999 - 2005 The PHP Group. All rights reserved. [...] 3. The name PHP must not be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without prior written permission. For written permission, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is a sort of name-change clause (permitted by DFSG#4) *if* the license is applied to PHP itself. It's really inappropriate for anything that is *not* PHP itself (especially when the copyright holder is not the PHP Group). 4. Products derived from this software may not be called PHP, nor may PHP appear in their name, without prior written permission from [EMAIL PROTECTED] You may indicate that your software works in conjunction with PHP by saying Foo for PHP instead of calling it PHP Foo or phpfoo When the license is applied to PHP itself, this starts as a name-change clause, but then goes beyond and forbids an entire class of names for derived works (any name having PHP as a substring, minus some exceptions). This is overreaching, IMO, and makes the clause non-free. This gets even worse when applied to anything that is not PHP itself. [...] 6. Redistributions of any form whatsoever must retain the following acknowledgment: This product includes PHP software, freely available from http://www.php.net/software/. This clause forces redistributors to lie, *if* the license is applied to anything that is neither PHP itself, nor PHP software (actually available from http://www.php.net/software/). OK for PHP itself and some other software, non-free for anything else. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE PHP DEVELOPMENT TEAM ``AS IS'' Once again false for anything not provided by the PHP development team. [...] Ah, I forgot the last part: I'll quote it now... | This software consists of voluntary contributions made by many | individuals on behalf of the PHP Group. Again false for anything not made on behalf of the PHP Group. | | The PHP Group can be contacted via Email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | For more information on the PHP Group and the PHP project, | please see http://www.php.net. | | PHP includes the Zend Engine, freely available at | http://www.zend.com. This is irrelevant for anything that is not PHP, but it now does not harm (thanks to the minor fix). -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgpJhOLarp6gp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Finjan NG5000 Web Proxy
So far: no response. Has anyone else had any luck getting info from them? andrew On 11/10/05, Andrew Donnellan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll put any response on-list. Also, yes, I have seen GPL Violations. I will contact them if finjan doesn't respond. Andrew On 11/10/05, Arnoud Engelfriet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Andrew Donnellan wrote: I've emailed finjan software asking for them to put the sourcecode up. I'd be interested in seeing what (if anything) they respond. Based on what I read at the website, this product likely includes iptables and netfilter. You may want to inform Harald Welte, its copyright holder. Or see his website at http://www.gpl-violations.org/ Regards, Arnoud -- Arnoud Engelfriet, Dutch European patent attorney - Speaking only for myself Patents, copyright and IPR explained for techies: http://www.iusmentis.com/ -- This space for rent. Enquire within. Terms and conditions apply. See store for details. Get free domains - http://www.ezyrewards.com/?id=23484 -- This space for rent. Enquire within. Terms and conditions apply. See store for details. Get free domains - http://www.ezyrewards.com/?id=23484
