Re: Public Domain for Germans
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't see anything wrong with authors not being able to give up > their moral rights. Why do you think this needs fixing? Some people clearly want to be able to. The OP for example. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GNU Free Documentation License v1.3
Le lundi 03 novembre 2008 à 18:28 +0100, Simon Josefsson a écrit : > 2. VERBATIM COPYING > You may not use > technical measures to obstruct or control the reading or further > copying of the copies you make or distribute. I wonder how we should consider the fact they did not remove nor rephrase this obnoxious clause. Back in the FDL discussions, it was commonly accepted that this was a honest mistake and that it was going to be fixed in the next version. Now the next version is here, and it hasn’t been fixed. How many years will it take before we can chmod -r our directories and close our drawers? -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: GNU Free Documentation License v1.3
"Paul Wise" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [...] they are still taking comments toward the draft, so make > sure all relevant comments are sent to the FSF. GFDL 1.3 FAQ, GFDL 2.0 > draft: > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-1.3-faq.html > http://gplv3.fsf.org/fdl-draft-2006-09-22.html stet is still broken and the Google Summer of Code work is MIA, so where should comments be sent? Also, are the discussion committees the same as for the GPLv3, or can I suggest some new members? Regards, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GNU Free Documentation License v1.3
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 11:34 PM, Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I wonder how we should consider the fact they did not remove nor > rephrase this obnoxious clause. Back in the FDL discussions, it was > commonly accepted that this was a honest mistake and that it was going > to be fixed in the next version. > > Now the next version is here, and it hasn't been fixed. How many years > will it take before we can chmod -r our directories and close our > drawers? It was mentioned on IRC that this revision is just because the Wikimedia Foundation wanted it, that they are still drafting the GFDL 2.0 and that they are still taking comments toward the draft, so make sure all relevant comments are sent to the FSF. GFDL 1.3 FAQ, GFDL 2.0 draft: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-1.3-faq.html http://gplv3.fsf.org/fdl-draft-2006-09-22.html -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public Domain for Germans
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [081103 19:50]: > Can I as a German use the following Public Domain-declaration-text, > if I want the result to be dfsg-free? > > I, the creator of this work, > hereby release it into the public domain. > This applies worldwide. > In case this is not legally possible, > I grant any entity the right to use this work for any purpose, > without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law. I think this is unnecessary complex. If you are afraid of some problems by a court to interpret this, then in my huble opinion, you should be more frightened that you gave no terms in German than about some translation problems between the legal systems. I'm no layer, have not knowledge in that regard and have not asked anyone, but I fail to see what a "I hereby place this work in the public domain." fails to do. Such a sentence makes it perfectly clear what you want to achieve. I should be legal in the US and I doubt a German court will tell someone they used the wrong magic words but interpret the intention. Hochachtungsvoll, Bernhard R. Link -- "Never contain programs so few bugs, as when no debugging tools are available!" Niklaus Wirth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public Domain for Germans
>but I fail to see what a
>"I hereby place this work in the public domain."
>fails to do.
In Germany there is no possibility to waive copyright.
You neither can give it to somebody other nor to the public.
So this attention is possibly void, and it's unsure, what a random German court
would decide.
>It's not clear that use is enough; it doesn't specify copy,
>modify, or redistribute rights.
Would this be enough?
In case this is not legally possible,
I grant any entity any right, which would require permission of the
copyright-holder
including but not limited to use, copy, modify and redistribute this work for
any purpose,
without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.
or is a simple "If it's not possible, I grant permission for everything" enough?
>If you have the option to decide on a license, it's probably far
>simpler to *retain* copyright as per default, and grant the recipient
>a do-just-about-anything license like the Expat license
Is there any problem with the by default Public Domain Declaration,
if there is a free licence as fallback?
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Re: Public Domain for Germans
* Ben Finney: > It's not clear that “use” is enough; it doesn't specify copy, > modify, or redistribute rights. This also doesn't disclaim warranty, > which might be dangerous for someone distributing programs. Word on the street is that you can't effectively disclaim warranty while putting something in the public domain. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public Domain for Germans
* Paul Wise: > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I don't see anything wrong with authors not being able to give up >> their moral rights. Why do you think this needs fixing? > > Some people clearly want to be able to. The OP for example. Why wouldn't it be sufficient not to exercise the moral rights? If providing comfort to downstream users is the priority, assigning copyright/exploitation rights to a well-established fiduciary might be the better option anyway. PS: What's wrong with using a Mail-Followup-To: header? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public Domain for Germans
* Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [081104 21:29]: > Word on the street is that you can't effectively disclaim warranty > while putting something in the public domain. Well, as we are discussing the German POV, as German you cannot disclaim warrenty effectively at all as far as I do understand it. (Or to do so would just be impractical). Hochachtungsvoll, Bernhard R. Link -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public Domain for Germans
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [081104 21:09]: > >but I fail to see what a > > >"I hereby place this work in the public domain." > > >fails to do. > > In Germany there is no possibility to waive copyright. You can give licenses. You cannot give up authorship. There is no direkt translation of "the copyright of a work" that includes all the aspects (as it is with most terms, not limited to legal ones. But I was also told by lawyers that there is also no full translation of contract either, as Vertrag is much less). So, given that it is an English text which already makes it either void or necessary to translate it, does anyone have any hint of any kind of anything that could make the above sentence of "I hereby place this work in the public domain." could cause any German judge to be interpreted in any way but that you want to grant an non-exclusive license of everything possible to everyone? > You neither can give it to somebody other nor to the public. You can give the right to copy to someone else. Works can get gemeinfrei. Everything wanted is possible in a simular way. > So this attention is possibly void, and it's unsure, what a random German > court > would decide. I cannot imagine a court to claim that an action someone did willfully is void because they used the wrong magic words. (I may imagine a judge do so because someone did not know what they say because it was English, but if people are able to make grants they did void by using the wrong words, then lawyers would start using the wrong words like people cross their fingers behind their back). Hochachtungsvoll, Bernhard R. Link -- "Never contain programs so few bugs, as when no debugging tools are available!" Niklaus Wirth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public Domain for Germans
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >If you have the option to decide on a license, it's probably far > >simpler to *retain* copyright as per default, and grant the > >recipient a do-just-about-anything license like the Expat license > > Is there any problem with the by default Public Domain Declaration, > if there is a free licence as fallback? I don't know of any “default Public Domain Declaration”. There are countless variations, with none of them being common enough IME to warrant “default”. Why have the free license as fallback? I advise you to simplify: Work *with* the fact that you've got copyright, and license the work accordingly. -- \ “If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all | `\others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking | _o__) power called an idea” —Thomas Jefferson | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public Domain for Germans
Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > * Ben Finney: > > > It's not clear that “use” is enough; it doesn't specify copy, > > modify, or redistribute rights. This also doesn't disclaim > > warranty, which might be dangerous for someone distributing > > programs. > > Word on the street is that you can't effectively disclaim warranty > while putting something in the public domain. References please? Do you contend that still holds true for works that are licensed without fee? -- \“To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make | `\you something else is the greatest accomplishment.” —Ralph | _o__)Waldo Emerson | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Header fields and followup address (was: Public Domain for Germans)
Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > PS: What's wrong with using a Mail-Followup-To: header? (That's “header field”. Remember, folks: an email message has, as specified in RFC 2822, exactly *one* header, consisting of multiple fields.) I can see two reasons: It's non-standard. It is not one of the standard header fields, so its name should start with ‘X-’, and its implementation is user-defined in the absense of a standard. The poorly-written document proposing it http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98dec/I-D/draft-ietf-drums-mail-followup-to-00.txt> failed to pass, and expired in 1998, so it's unlikely it will ever *be* standard. It's essentially obsolete, at least for the purpose of mailing lists, since RFC 2369 fields that allow the “reply to list” function are deployed in essentially every mailing list manager. Let's agitate to fix the “reply to list” functionality where we find it lacking (I'm looking at you, Thunderbird) before we agitate for non-standard field implementations. -- \ “A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the | `\ value of nothing.” —Oscar Wilde | _o__) | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public Domain for Germans
> I don't know of any "default Public Domain Declaration". There are
> countless variations, with none of them being common enough IME to
> warrant "default".
"_by_ default", not "default".
> Why have the free license as fallback?
> I advise you to simplify: Work *with* the fact that you've got
copyright,
> and license the work accordingly.
After all this seems to be the best,
although I like the Idea to give up copyright.
But if one at example looks at the CC0-legaltext[0],
and what contortions it has to do to deal with strange laws,
a simple and readable "normal" licence seems much more desirable.
[0]http://labs.creativecommons.org/licenses/zero/1.0/legalcode
Thanks for all for clarifying this issue.
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Re: GNU Free Documentation License v1.3
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 3:55 AM, MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > stet is still broken and the Google Summer of Code work is MIA, so > where should comments be sent? Commenting works for me and others: http://gplv3.fsf.org/comments/rt/readsay.html?Query=%20%27CF.NoteUrl%27%20LIKE%20%27gfdl-draft-1%27%20&Order=DESC&OrderBy=id&Rows= If you need a login, see these: https://www.fsf.org/register_form http://www.bugmenot.com/view/gplv3.fsf.org If your web browser cannot add comments for some reason (sounds pretty broken if it cannot), you might want to use the contact form: http://gplv3.fsf.org/contact-info If your browser doesn't like that form either, try the FSF contact page: http://www.fsf.org/about/contact.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] looks like the appropriate email address for addressing your browser issues and [EMAIL PROTECTED] looks like the appropriate email address to address license comments to. If none of these work, the FSF contact page lists +1-617-542-5942 as the FSF phone number and +1-617-542-2652 as the FSF fax number. > Also, are the discussion committees the same as for the GPLv3, or can > I suggest some new members? No idea, I'm not associated with the FSF. [EMAIL PROTECTED] might be able to give you that info. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public Domain for Germans
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Why have the free license as fallback? > > I advise you to simplify: Work *with* the fact that you've got > copyright, > > and license the work accordingly. > > After all this seems to be the best, > although I like the Idea to give up copyright. So do I. I encourage both of us to continue to agitate for a change in law in our nations and worldwide so that copyright is *not* the difficult-to-eradicate default. -- \ “Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “I think so, | `\Brain, but if we had a snowmobile, wouldn't it melt before | _o__) summer?” —_Pinky and The Brain_ | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public Domain for Germans
On 11558 March 1977, jfr fg wrote: > Can I as a German use the following Public Domain-declaration-text, > if I want the result to be dfsg-free? > I, the creator of this work, > hereby release it into the public domain. > This applies worldwide. > In case this is not legally possible, > I grant any entity the right to use this work for any purpose, > without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law. You can't make something PD in Germany, that just doesn't work with our laws. You should also NOT create new licenses / new words for things, that makes it just unneccessarily complex, for example if people want to bundle stuff together. Even if the intention is to give others full rights to do whatever they want to do with it. Use existing things, the world has more than enough of it. The best way for you IMO would be to either use the BSD or MIT/X11 style license. It will effectively do the same (allow everybody to "use the work for any purpose"). -- bye, Joerg AM: Whats the best way to find out if your debian/copyright is correct? NM: Upload package into the NEW queue. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
