Re: jmapviewer: bing logo

[Andrew Harvey]

On 17/10/2014 4:39 am, "Felix Natter"  wrote:
> 3. I will remove the logo and tilesource/BingAerialTileSource.java from
> the jmapviewer package (which should resolve any licensing issues). josm
> will FTBFS, Sebastiaan and I will try to add a patch to josm such that
> it works without bing (but maybe that is not worth it since, as I
> understand the comments here, josm is not helpful without bing?)

I use JOSM from unstable every week, it most definitely is still useful
without the Bing support.

Re: jmapviewer: bing logo

[Andreas Tille]

Hi Felix,

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 07:39:08PM +0200, Felix Natter wrote:
> 
> Short term sponsoring will be much appreciated :-)

In case I'm not AFK (on 20.+21.10. I will be offline) usually sponsoring
in a less than 24h time frame is the usual response time.

Please keep on your good work

Andreas.

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Re: jmapviewer: bing logo

[Riley Baird]

On 16/10/14 20:40, Andrew Shadura wrote:
> Hello Ian,
> 
> On 16 October 2014 01:56, Ian Jackson  wrote:
>> Another possibility would be to have the program download the logo
>> itself from the Bing website somewhere, along with the Bing map data,
>> when the Bing option is used, but such a thing ought to be in contrib.
> 
> I doubt so. That'd put all web browsers and media players into
> contrib. Bing logo isn't required for JOSM Bing plugin to function
> properly, it's only required as a part of their service usage terms
> and conditions.

Not really. It's possible to use a web browser or a media player only
for free content, and if you don't, you have specifically chosen to do so.

In any case, if we allowed, for example, non-free firmware to be
downloaded at boot, then even though technically we are not distributing
it in main, in practice, we are.

What would the problem with having it in contrib/non-free?


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Re: jmapviewer: bing logo

[Felix Natter]

Andreas Tille  writes:

> Hi Bas,

hello Andreas,
hello All,

> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 09:48:35AM +0200, Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote:
>> ...
>> If we cannot get around disabling the Bing support because of the
>> license issues around the logo, I think we should remove the josm
>> package forcing users to download josm-tested.jar. I've used the josm
>> package on unstable for a while, but have since switched to using
>> josm-tested.jar instead because even in unstable JOSM is hard to support
>> and keep current.
>
>>From a personal point of view I'd consider it very sad if JOSM would go.
> I'm following an "every software on my box is packaged" strategy and I
> was pretty fine with not using always the latest and greatest JOSM.  So
> keeping JOSM in Debian (including Bing support) would be *really*
> welcome (most probably not only by me considering 99 active user
> reporting via popcon).

I understand your concern, but I'm not sure we have a good choice
(the timing is currently very very bad!), either :

1. I get a positive reply from Microsoft soon --> I will include the
image. --> I don't think this will happen before the code freeze :-(

2. debian-legal (and debian-gis) agree that the "bing_maps.png missing"
license problem will be ignored for jessie (as suggested by Andrew
Shadura ). In that case we can try to apply the patch
from #765421 (before the freeze) to jmapviewer such that josm works with
bing.

--> IMHO the problem with this is that at any time during jessie's lifetime,
a complaint from a DD (or Microsoft itself) could lead to josm and
freeplane being removed from main (or even the archive).

3. I will remove the logo and tilesource/BingAerialTileSource.java from
the jmapviewer package (which should resolve any licensing issues). josm
will FTBFS, Sebastiaan and I will try to add a patch to josm such that
it works without bing (but maybe that is not worth it since, as I
understand the comments here, josm is not helpful without bing?)

> Kind regards
>
>   Andreas.
>
> PS: And no, unfortunately I can not help working on this besided the
> usual sponsering if needed.

Short term sponsoring will be much appreciated :-)

Thanks and Best Regards,
-- 
Felix Natter


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Re: Aw: Re: jmapviewer: bing logo

[Felix Natter]

Sebastiaan Couwenberg  writes:

> On 10/16/2014 07:22 AM, Felix Natter wrote:
>> hi Ian,
>> Sorry but I've worked ~2 years on the freeplane package for it to be in 
>> jessie/main,
>> und we're ~2 weeks from the jessie freeze, so if including the logo is DFSG 
>> compliant then that is enough for me.
>> => So I see two options:
>> 1. I get a positive reply from Microsoft soon --> I will include the image.
>> 2. I will remove the logo and tilesource/BingAerialTileSource.java 
>> 
>> from the jmapviewer package,
>> and apply a patch to josm so that it works without it
>> (@Sebastiaan or another GIS member: could you help me with this?
>> I think we can already prepare this!)

hello Sebastiaan,

> In the context of freeplane removing the Bing support entirely from
> jmapviewer is probably the best solution to keep freeplane and its
> dependencies in main.
>
> I'm not sure how important the Bing support is for freeplane users,
> but

Freeplane uses only basic functionality, no other tilesources.

> for JOSM users is pretty much essential. I've avoided contributing to
> JOSM packaging because it's such a fast moving piece of software which
> tends to break ofter with new java dependencies, etc. I'm skeptical of
> how useful JOSM is Debian stable release is, the OSM wiki suggests to
> use the josm package for its desktop file and overwriting josm.jar with
> a more recent josm-tested.jar that they generally recommend to use.

I will reply to Andreas concerning this.

> If we cannot get around disabling the Bing support because of the
> license issues around the logo, I think we should remove the josm
> package forcing users to download josm-tested.jar. I've used the josm
> package on unstable for a while, but have since switched to using
> josm-tested.jar instead because even in unstable JOSM is hard to support
> and keep current.
>
> I'm not sure how much I can help you patching JOSM to deal with the Bing
> removal, but I'm willing to help in any way I can.

Thank you, that is much appreciated!

Best Regards,
-- 
Felix Natter


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Re: jmapviewer: bing logo

[Andrew Shadura]

Hello Ian,

On 16 October 2014 01:56, Ian Jackson  wrote:
> Another possibility would be to have the program download the logo
> itself from the Bing website somewhere, along with the Bing map data,
> when the Bing option is used, but such a thing ought to be in contrib.

I doubt so. That'd put all web browsers and media players into
contrib. Bing logo isn't required for JOSM Bing plugin to function
properly, it's only required as a part of their service usage terms
and conditions.

-- 
Cheers,
  Andrew


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Re: Re: jmapviewer: bing logo

[Andrew Shadura]

Hello,

On 16 October 2014 07:22, Felix Natter  wrote:
> Sorry but I've worked ~2 years on the freeplane package for it to be in
> jessie/main,
> und we're ~2 weeks from the jessie freeze, so if including the logo is DFSG
> compliant
> then that is enough for me.

> => So I see two options:
>
> 1. I get a positive reply from Microsoft soon --> I will include the image.
>
> 2. I will remove the logo and tilesource/BingAerialTileSource.java from the
> jmapviewer package,
> and apply a patch to josm so that it works without it
> (@Sebastiaan or another GIS member: could you help me with this?
> I think we can already prepare this!)

Displaying Bing tiles is pretty much essential functionality of JOSM
for many of its users, with this function cut out probably very few
people are going to use it.

I'd prefer we ignore this bug for jessie, but it's possible to
download the logo at the runtime together with tiles themselves. This
wouldn't require to ship the logo inside the package while probably
wouldn't violate Bing's T&C.

-- 
Cheers,
  Andrew


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Re: Aw: Re: jmapviewer: bing logo

[Sebastiaan Couwenberg]

On 10/16/2014 07:22 AM, Felix Natter wrote:
> hi Ian,
> Sorry but I've worked ~2 years on the freeplane package for it to be in 
> jessie/main,
> und we're ~2 weeks from the jessie freeze, so if including the logo is DFSG 
> compliant then that is enough for me.
> => So I see two options:
> 1. I get a positive reply from Microsoft soon --> I will include the image.
> 2. I will remove the logo and tilesource/BingAerialTileSource.java 
> 
>  
> from the jmapviewer package,
> and apply a patch to josm so that it works without it
> (@Sebastiaan or another GIS member: could you help me with this?
> I think we can already prepare this!)

In the context of freeplane removing the Bing support entirely from
jmapviewer is probably the best solution to keep freeplane and its
dependencies in main.

I'm not sure how important the Bing support is for freeplane users, but
for JOSM users is pretty much essential. I've avoided contributing to
JOSM packaging because it's such a fast moving piece of software which
tends to break ofter with new java dependencies, etc. I'm skeptical of
how useful JOSM is Debian stable release is, the OSM wiki suggests to
use the josm package for its desktop file and overwriting josm.jar with
a more recent josm-tested.jar that they generally recommend to use.

If we cannot get around disabling the Bing support because of the
license issues around the logo, I think we should remove the josm
package forcing users to download josm-tested.jar. I've used the josm
package on unstable for a while, but have since switched to using
josm-tested.jar instead because even in unstable JOSM is hard to support
and keep current.

I'm not sure how much I can help you patching JOSM to deal with the Bing
removal, but I'm willing to help in any way I can.

> Best Regards,
> Felix Natter

Kind Regards,

Bas

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