Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] STIX Fonts Beta Test Version Ready for Download
My reading of this says that any modified version cannot be called STIX or any confusingly similar name. You may add or change characters. You may remove characters but if you do so you must note that the font does not contain the full set of characters that STIX had. Well that is at least my reading of the intent. The actual wording should be fixed, but baring the naming clause being a bit too broad, the license seems to be intended to be DFSG-free. So lets work on fixing the wording. IANAL, IANADD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] STIX Fonts Beta Test Version Ready for Download
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 13:15:56 +0100 Ralf Stubner wrote: On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:56 +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: Actually, I think clause 4 of the license fails to meet the DFSG. Clause 4 states: |4. You may also (a) add glyphs or characters to the Fonts, or | modify the shape of existing glyphs, so long as the base set of ^^^ | glyphs | is not removed and (b) delete glyphs or characters from the Fonts, | provided that the resulting font set is distributed with the | following disclaimer: This [name] font does not include all the | Unicode points covered in the STIX Fonts-TM set but may include | others. In each case, the name used to denote the resulting font | set shall not include the term STIX or any similar term. [...] It seems to me that the license does not allow modifications to the base set of glyphs (not even through patch files for the source code, with the explicit permission to distribute what is built from modified source code). I think the above highlighted passage does allow changing the base set of glyphs. I'm not sure: am I allowed to substitute (in the final ready-to-use form of the font) one glyph with a modified version of it for the same character? The clause is not overly clear, and I am under the impression that the above described scenario is not allowed. A clarification from upstream would be useful. P.S.: Please do not Cc: me, as long as debian-legal is in the loop, thanks. -- http://frx.netsons.org/doc/nanodocs/testing_workstation_install.html Need to read a Debian testing installation walk-through? . Francesco Poli . GnuPG key fpr == C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgphjh1OiqzA7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] STIX Fonts Beta Test Version Ready for Download
On 01/11/2007, Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/1/07, STIX Fonts Project Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are the licence terms from the download page. It seems to be OK for non-free. Clause 4 seems like it isn't a full modification clause, Any thoughts on it? I'm no expert on how fonts work, but clause 4 doesn't seem to be a million miles away from the integrity of source code clause in the DFSG, in allowing modifications/additions on top of an unaltered original version. Clause 4 has a slight drafting ambiguity, however, in that a strict reading suggests that you can *either* add or modify glyphs (while keeping the base set of glyphs intact) *or* delete glyphs (provided you add the required disclaimer and comply with the font name provisions), but not both. It may be worth checking with the licensor that they regard the licence as permitting licensees to add and modify some glyphs (while keeping the original versions of *those* glyphs in the set) while deleting other, unmodified glyphs. Indeed, assuming that the licensor confirms this, is there any reason why the licence doesn't qualify as free under the DFSG? John (IAAL, but TINLA) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] STIX Fonts Beta Test Version Ready for Download
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:34:28 + John Halton wrote: On 01/11/2007, Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/1/07, STIX Fonts Project Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are the licence terms from the download page. It seems to be OK for non-free. Clause 4 seems like it isn't a full modification clause, Any thoughts on it? I'm no expert on how fonts work, but clause 4 doesn't seem to be a million miles away from the integrity of source code clause in the DFSG, in allowing modifications/additions on top of an unaltered original version. I don't think it's so far away from what is permitted by the DFSG#4, but IMHO it's not so close, either. Actually, I think clause 4 of the license fails to meet the DFSG. Clause 4 states: |4. You may also (a) add glyphs or characters to the Fonts, or | modify the shape of existing glyphs, so long as the base set of glyphs | is not removed and (b) delete glyphs or characters from the Fonts, | provided that the resulting font set is distributed with the following | disclaimer: This [name] font does not include all the Unicode points | covered in the STIX Fonts-TM set but may include others. In each | case, the name used to denote the resulting font set shall not include | the term STIX or any similar term. while DFSG#4 states: | 4. Integrity of The Author's Source Code | The license may restrict source-code from being distributed in | modified form _only_ if the license allows the distribution of | patch files with the source code for the purpose of modifying | the program at build time. The license must explicitly permit | distribution of software built from modified source code. The | license may require derived works to carry a different name or | version number from the original software. (This is a compromise. | The Debian group encourages all authors not to restrict any | files, source or binary, from being modified.) It seems to me that the license does not allow modifications to the base set of glyphs (not even through patch files for the source code, with the explicit permission to distribute what is built from modified source code). IMHO, this goes beyond what is permitted (as a compromise!) by DFSG#4. Moreover, the license forbids naming the resulting (modified) font with a string *including* the term STIX or *any similar term*. This restriction forbids an infinite class of names: any of the infinite set of names including any of the infinite set of terms similar to STIX (STIX itself or STEEX or STYX or STICS or SHTIX or SSTIX or STHIX or SCHTIX ...). Again, IMHO, this goes beyond what is permitted (as a compromise!) by DFSG#4. [drafting ambiguity] Indeed, assuming that the licensor confirms this, is there any reason why the licence doesn't qualify as free under the DFSG? I think the above-mentioned reasons are enough to conclude that the license fails to make the fonts comply with the DFSG. John (IAAL, but TINLA) IANAL, TINLA, IANADD, TINASOTODP. -- http://frx.netsons.org/doc/nanodocs/testing_workstation_install.html Need to read a Debian testing installation walk-through? . Francesco Poli . GnuPG key fpr == C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgpl1O6o1SRmz.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] STIX Fonts Beta Test Version Ready for Download
On 01/11/2007, Francesco Poli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me that the license does not allow modifications to the base set of glyphs (not even through patch files for the source code, with the explicit permission to distribute what is built from modified source code). IMHO, this goes beyond what is permitted (as a compromise!) by DFSG#4. Moreover, the license forbids naming the resulting (modified) font with a string *including* the term STIX or *any similar term*. This restriction forbids an infinite class of names: any of the infinite set of names including any of the infinite set of terms similar to STIX (STIX itself or STEEX or STYX or STICS or SHTIX or SSTIX or STHIX or SCHTIX ...). Again, IMHO, this goes beyond what is permitted (as a compromise!) by DFSG#4. Agreed. Thanks for the clarification on the technical distinction. John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] STIX Fonts Beta Test Version Ready for Download
* MJ Ray: Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4. You may also (a) add glyphs or characters to the Fonts, or modify the shape of existing glyphs, so long as the base set of glyphs is not removed and (b) delete glyphs or characters from the Fonts, provided that the resulting font set is distributed with the following disclaimer: This [name] font does not include all the Unicode points covered in the STIX Fonts-TM set but may include others. In each case, the name used to denote the resulting font set shall not include the term STIX or any similar term. I'm confused by this, but maybe I just don't understand how the font works: is it possible to modify a character and have software use it, even if the original is still in there? Reasonably recent TeX distributions can do this (virtual fonts). It's not clear to me if you can modify and redistribute core glyphs at all, no matter what the font is called. This is likely not intentional because (pardon the silly example) if I need a LATIN SMALL LETTER WITH CHAIN ABOVE, I should be able to start with LATIN SMALL LETTER A. But apparently, the font publisher actually whishes to encourage such derived works. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] STIX Fonts Beta Test Version Ready for Download
On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 12:14 +, MJ Ray wrote: Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4. You may also (a) add glyphs or characters to the Fonts, or modify the shape of existing glyphs, so long as the base set of glyphs is not removed and (b) delete glyphs or characters from the Fonts, provided that the resulting font set is distributed with the following disclaimer: This [name] font does not include all the Unicode points covered in the STIX Fonts-TM set but may include others. In each case, the name used to denote the resulting font set shall not include the term STIX or any similar term. I'm confused by this, but maybe I just don't understand how the font works: is it possible to modify a character and have software use it, even if the original is still in there? Don't things get confused by two glyphs for the same character being in there? Sure, current font technologies make it easy to have several glyphs refer to one character. The client software can then choose which variant to use. There is little support for this choosing in FOSS, but that does not have to bother you, if you make your glyph the default. However, I don't see why one should have to include to original glyphs in the font. Clause (a) explicitly allows modification of exisiting glyphs. cheerio ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] STIX Fonts Beta Test Version Ready for Download
On 11/1/07, STIX Fonts Project Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The STIX Fonts project group is pleased to announce the availability of the STIX Fonts in beta test version. You are being notified of this milestone because you requested that we contact you when the files were available for download. The fonts can be downloaded by clicking on this link (http://www.stixfonts.org/font_download.jsp) or by visiting the STIX Fonts Web site (www.stixfonts.org) and clicking on the Download the STIX Fonts button. Here are the licence terms from the download page. It seems to be OK for non-free. Clause 4 seems like it isn't a full modification clause, Any thoughts on it? The distribution also contains no copyright or licence information, neither in the README nor in the copyright fields of the fonts themselves, but this should be fixable by mailing the beta test program people. Note that it is quite likely that it is far far too late for STIX to change the licence, so nitpicking it for problems unrelated uploading STIX into Debian is a waste of bandwith, unless those nitpicks are sent directly to the STIX Fonts Project Group. TERMS AND CONDITIONS 1. Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of the STIX Fonts-TM set accompanying this license (collectively, the Fonts) and the associated documentation files (collectively with the Fonts, the Font Software), to reproduce and distribute the Font Software, including the rights to use, copy, merge and publish copies of the Font Software, and to permit persons to whom the Font Software is furnished to do so same, subject to the following terms and conditions (the License). 2. The following copyright and trademark notice and these Terms and Conditions shall be included in all copies of one or more of the Font typefaces and any derivative work created as permitted under this License: Copyright (c) 2001-2005 by the STI Pub Companies, consisting of the American Institute of Physics, the American Chemical Society, the American Mathematical Society, the American Physical Society, Elsevier, Inc., and The Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers, Inc. Portions copyright (c) 1998-2003 by MicroPress, Inc. Portions copyright (c) 1990 by Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved. STIX Fonts-TM is a trademark of The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc. 3. You may (a) convert the Fonts from one format to another (e.g., from TrueType to PostScript), in which case the normal and reasonable distortion that occurs during such conversion shall be permitted and (b) embed or include a subset of the Fonts in a document for the purposes of allowing users to read text in the document that utilizes the Fonts. In each case, you may use the STIX Fonts-TM mark to designate the resulting Fonts or subset of the Fonts. 4. You may also (a) add glyphs or characters to the Fonts, or modify the shape of existing glyphs, so long as the base set of glyphs is not removed and (b) delete glyphs or characters from the Fonts, provided that the resulting font set is distributed with the following disclaimer: This [name] font does not include all the Unicode points covered in the STIX Fonts-TM set but may include others. In each case, the name used to denote the resulting font set shall not include the term STIX or any similar term. 5. You may charge a fee in connection with the distribution of the Font Software, provided that no copy of one or more of the individual Font typefaces that form the STIX Fonts-TM set may be sold by itself. 6. THE FONT SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED AS IS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT OF COPYRIGHT, PATENT, TRADEMARK OR OTHER RIGHT. IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROPRESS OR ANY OF THE STI PUB COMPANIES BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM OR OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE FONT SOFTWARE OR FROM OTHER DEALINGS IN THE FONT SOFTWARE. 7. Except as contained in the notice set forth in Section 2, the names MicroPress Inc. and STI Pub Companies, as well as the names of the companies/organizations that compose the STI Pub Companies, shall not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale, use or other dealings in the Font Software without the prior written consent of the respective company or organization. 8. This License shall become null and void in the event of any material breach of the Terms and Conditions herein by licensee. 9. A substantial portion of the STIX Fonts set was developed by MicroPress Inc. for the STI Pub Companies. To obtain additional mathematical fonts, please contact MicroPress, Inc., 68-30 Harrow Street, Forest Hills, NY 11375, USA - Phone: (718)
