Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
Hi, I'm going to upload a new enigma package soon, since enigma in unstable is uninstallable now (depending on the old libzipios package, g++ transition to 4.0) I'd like to resolve this issue with the same upload - what do you suggest? I'm cc'ing debian-legal, too. Short version of the situation for debian-legal: Enigma contains a music file - menu title song - which I'd consider non-free with respect to Debian DFSG rules. Enigma was given the permission to distribute that song in an "informal email". The author of the song is credited in the manual as Andrew Sega Menu music (Pentagonal Dreams) I basically see three solutions: - make an enigma 0.92.1 upload, removing the s3m file (eventually making a non-free enigma-music package, but I'm too lazy) - ask the author of the song if he'd GPL-licence it - move enigma as-is to non-free The second would be the nicest, but I'd go for the first for now. Debian-Legal: I also need your advice for Debian stable. AFAICT it's non-obvious that the music is not GPL-licenced. (Well, the file's internal copyright says "all rights reserved") Neither that you can't just take it out and distribute it by itself! best regards, Erich Schubert -- erich@(vitavonni.de|debian.org)--GPG Key ID: 4B3A135C(o_ To understand recursion you first need to understand recursion. //\ Es ist beschämender seinen Freunden zu mißtrauen als von ihnen V_/_ getäuscht zu werden. --- François de la Rochefoucauld
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 02:48:27PM +0200, Erich Schubert wrote: > Hi, > I'm going to upload a new enigma package soon, since enigma in unstable > is uninstallable now (depending on the old libzipios package, g++ > transition to 4.0) > > I'd like to resolve this issue with the same upload - what do you > suggest? > > I'm cc'ing debian-legal, too. Short version of the situation for > debian-legal: > Enigma contains a music file - menu title song - which I'd consider > non-free with respect to Debian DFSG rules. > Enigma was given the permission to distribute that song in an "informal > email". > The author of the song is credited in the manual as > Andrew Sega Menu music (Pentagonal Dreams) > > I basically see three solutions: > - make an enigma 0.92.1 upload, removing the s3m file > (eventually making a non-free enigma-music package, but I'm too lazy) > - ask the author of the song if he'd GPL-licence it > - move enigma as-is to non-free Erich, applying the GPL to a documentation is ok, but don't you think you are pushing things a bit hard by applying it to a music file too ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
Hi, > Erich, applying the GPL to a documentation is ok, but don't you think you are > pushing things a bit hard by applying it to a music file too ? It doesn't need to be GPL, but it needs to be DFSG-free. Anyway, I have my upload ready with the music file removed. Any objections that I just go on and upload? What are we going to do about sarge? best regards, Erich Schubert -- erich@(vitavonni.de|debian.org)--GPG Key ID: 4B3A135C(o_ To understand recursion you first need to understand recursion. //\ Es lohnt sich nicht, die Augen aufzumachen, V_/_ wenn der Kopf im Sand steckt. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:34:02 +0200 Sven Luther wrote: [...] > Erich, applying the GPL to a documentation is ok, but don't you think > you are pushing things a bit hard by applying it to a music file too ? I don't think so. Any work can be released under the GPL, IMHO. -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgp4Zv61Y1F8b.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 02:48:27PM +0200, Erich Schubert wrote: > I basically see three solutions: > - make an enigma 0.92.1 upload, removing the s3m file > (eventually making a non-free enigma-music package, but I'm too lazy) > - ask the author of the song if he'd GPL-licence it > - move enigma as-is to non-free > Debian-Legal: I also need your advice for Debian stable. > AFAICT it's non-obvious that the music is not GPL-licenced. > (Well, the file's internal copyright says "all rights reserved") > Neither that you can't just take it out and distribute it by itself! Given that this is content that's already in a stable release, wouldn't it be a good idea to ask the author about relicensing first, and possibly save the effort of repacking multiple tarballs? Cheers, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
On Sun, 28 Aug 2005, Francesco Poli wrote: > On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:34:02 +0200 Sven Luther wrote: > > Erich, applying the GPL to a documentation is ok, but don't you > > think you are pushing things a bit hard by applying it to a music > > file too ? > > I don't think so. Any work can be released under the GPL, IMHO. You can release it, but it may not be possible for anyone else to distribute it if you don't distribute the prefered form for modification (and anything else that is required for other people to distribute the work.) [Of course, there is an argument that the DFSG requires source anyway, but we'll leave that one aside for now.] Don Armstrong -- When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me. -- Emo Philips. http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 09:09:33PM +0200, Erich Schubert wrote: > Hi, > > Erich, applying the GPL to a documentation is ok, but don't you think you > > are > > pushing things a bit hard by applying it to a music file too ? > > It doesn't need to be GPL, but it needs to be DFSG-free. Well, i was just surprised that you listed the second alternative as asking the author to GPL it, instead of asking for a fre elicence, but i believe that in this case, any licence that allows distribution of the music track should be ok, not sure though. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
Hi, > Well, i was just surprised that you listed the second alternative as asking > the author to GPL it, instead of asking for a fre elicence, but i believe that > in this case, any licence that allows distribution of the music track should > be ok, not sure though. Not by the post-sarge requirements AFAICT. Until then I think we allowed files you cannot modify (although mostly due to technical reasons, i.e. firmware) We have a licence which allows free distribution along with enigma. This is not debian-specific - so it's fine for re-distributors like ubuntu - but still not DFSG-free. best regards, Erich Schubert -- erich@(vitavonni.de|debian.org)--GPG Key ID: 4B3A135C(o_ Go away or i'll replace you with a very small shell script. //\ Es gibt kein idiotensicheres Programm, weil Idioten so V_/_ genial sind. -- E. Murphy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 01:38:29PM +0200, Erich Schubert wrote: > Hi, > > Well, i was just surprised that you listed the second alternative as asking > > the author to GPL it, instead of asking for a fre elicence, but i believe > > that > > in this case, any licence that allows distribution of the music track should > > be ok, not sure though. > > Not by the post-sarge requirements AFAICT. Until then I think we allowed > files you cannot modify (although mostly due to technical reasons, i.e. > firmware) We spoke about documentation, firmware, and other such stuff which you have a reasonable reason to modify, but music for a game ? You are free to take the music and replace it with another, i suppose. > > We have a licence which allows free distribution along with enigma. This > is not debian-specific - so it's fine for re-distributors like ubuntu - > but still not DFSG-free. So, what is it you want ? Full redistribution right outside of enigma as well ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
Hi, > We spoke about documentation, firmware, and other such stuff which you have a > reasonable reason to modify, but music for a game ? You are free to take the > music and replace it with another, i suppose. This is an s3m, screamtracker file. You can modify it quite easily with so called trackers. We also have one as package: Soundtracker (although I don't know if its does .s3m, the docs only mention .xm and .xi) You could claim that this is a script, i.e. a program, to play music! Anyway, I'm going to upload with the music removed for now. > > We have a licence which allows free distribution along with enigma. This > > is not debian-specific - so it's fine for re-distributors like ubuntu - > > but still not DFSG-free. > > So, what is it you want ? Full redistribution right outside of enigma as well No, because this is still non-free according to DFSG. We need the public right to modify it in order to meet the DFSG. best regards, Erich Schubert -- erich@(vitavonni.de|debian.org)--GPG Key ID: 4B3A135C(o_ Friends are those who reach out for //\ your hand but touch your heart. V_/_ Unter Freunden ist guter Rat nicht teuer, aber wie alles, was nichts kostet, nur wenig gefragt. --- Robert Muthmann -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 05:35:36PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: > On Sun, 28 Aug 2005, Francesco Poli wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:34:02 +0200 Sven Luther wrote: > > > Erich, applying the GPL to a documentation is ok, but don't you > > > think you are pushing things a bit hard by applying it to a music > > > file too ? > > > > I don't think so. Any work can be released under the GPL, IMHO. > > You can release it, but it may not be possible for anyone else to > distribute it if you don't distribute the prefered form for > modification (and anything else that is required for other people to > distribute the work.) > > [Of course, there is an argument that the DFSG requires source anyway, > but we'll leave that one aside for now.] Soundtracker (and anything similar) modules such as we're dealing with here, like midi files, are usually their own source. As distinct from mp3 or wav files, which usually aren't. For those who don't know, a module is in essence a midi file with embedded instrument samples. -- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield : :' : http://www.debian.org/ | `. `' | `- -><- | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#321669: enigma: Copyright violation for menu.s3m
On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:15:06 +0200 Sven Luther wrote: > We spoke about documentation, firmware, and other such stuff which you > have a reasonable reason to modify, but music for a game ? You are > free to take the music and replace it with another, i suppose. You are always free to take a program and replace it with another one, but that doesn't mean the program is DFSG-free. The same holds for documentation, firmware, and... yes!, music, images, and so forth. -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgp6nKZcgOahs.pgp Description: PGP signature
