Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
On 15/09/14 06:55, Vinay Sajip at Red Dove wrote: >>> 3. The Python standard library logging module is covered by the Python >>> license, so I don't believe it needs relicensing. >> >> As far as I can tell, the Python standard library logging module is >> covered by the Python license *and* the Vinay Sajip license - on >> Python's licensing page [1], they have a long list of "Licenses and >> Acknowledgements for Incorporated Software". >> >> (Perhaps someone else from -legal can confirm this?) > > The license in question does not appear in the "Licenses and > Acknowledgements for Incorporated Software" for Python versions 2.7 [1], > 3.4 [2] or the in-development version (to become 3.5) [3]. You > referenced a footnote no. 1 in your email but no link was provided, so > I'm not sure where you got the above from. Sorry, I forgot to add the footnote :) But yes, I can see that the license in question does not appear on the list. However, the list notes that it is an "incomplete, but growing list of licenses". It would appear that they just forgot to include it. Since the logging module is contained within Python with your license headers, your license must apply as well as the Python license. The point of that list is that the Python license is not the only license that applies to Python. > It appears that this very old code is only ever invoked if the Python > logging module is unavailable. However, this would only apply to Python > versions < 2.3, and Xen has a dependency on Python 2.5. So the code in > question is never called and could IMO be removed. I would guess this > code is a holdover from versions of Xen pre-dating its adoption of a > release of Python >= 2.3. Note that the last version of the standalone > module was 0.4.9.6, which is later than the 0.4.9.2 version referenced. Thanks for noticing this! I've submitted a bug for this to be removed: https://bugs.debian.org/759384 Regards, Riley -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/541df093.9030...@bitmessage.ch
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
3. The Python standard library logging module is covered by the Python license, so I don't believe it needs relicensing. As far as I can tell, the Python standard library logging module is covered by the Python license *and* the Vinay Sajip license - on Python's licensing page [1], they have a long list of "Licenses and Acknowledgements for Incorporated Software". (Perhaps someone else from -legal can confirm this?) The license in question does not appear in the "Licenses and Acknowledgements for Incorporated Software" for Python versions 2.7 [1], 3.4 [2] or the in-development version (to become 3.5) [3]. You referenced a footnote no. 1 in your email but no link was provided, so I'm not sure where you got the above from. 4. The original logging module (pre inclusion in Python 2.3) is unlikely ever to see another release, since AFAIK later versions of Python now ship on Debian and its derivatives. It seems that xen still uses the original logging module: http://sources.debian.net/src/xen/4.4.0-4/tools/python/logging/logging-0.4.9.2/setup.py/?hl=12#L12 It appears that this very old code is only ever invoked if the Python logging module is unavailable. However, this would only apply to Python versions < 2.3, and Xen has a dependency on Python 2.5. So the code in question is never called and could IMO be removed. I would guess this code is a holdover from versions of Xen pre-dating its adoption of a release of Python >= 2.3. Note that the last version of the standalone module was 0.4.9.6, which is later than the 0.4.9.2 version referenced. Regards, Vinay Sajip [1] https://docs.python.org/2/license.html#licenses-and-acknowledgements-for-incorporated-software [2] https://docs.python.org/3/license.html#licenses-and-acknowledgements-for-incorporated-software [3] https://docs.python.org/dev/license.html#licenses-and-acknowledgements-for-incorporated-software -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/b1091a7bb00b981d22503fe8d6267...@webmail.webfaction.com
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
On 07/09/14 14:51, Johannes Schauer wrote: > Hi, > > Quoting Riley Baird (2014-09-07 05:39:02) >> On 06/09/14 11:34, Paul Wise wrote: >>> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 08:18 +0200, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: >>> Paul pleasr open a bug under lintian. Will a source duplicate pedantic level >>> >>> I'm not sure there are enough copies to warrant this. >> >> There are many other licenses that are copies of Vinay's, just with a >> different name substituted in. Perhaps there could be a warning >> whenever something like this is found: >> >> "the name of "[A-Z]*" "[A-Z]*" " > > yesterday, bug #757615 was closed which introduces a tag that warns about > whitespaces in license names in DEP5 copyright files. This tag would highlight > a license name of the pattern "the name of "[A-Z]*" "[A-Z]*" ". Yes, but this isn't a license name; it is within the text of the license. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/540be600.6040...@bitmessage.ch
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
Hi, Quoting Riley Baird (2014-09-07 05:39:02) > On 06/09/14 11:34, Paul Wise wrote: > > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 08:18 +0200, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > > > >> Paul pleasr open a bug under lintian. Will a source duplicate > >> pedantic level > > > > I'm not sure there are enough copies to warrant this. > > There are many other licenses that are copies of Vinay's, just with a > different name substituted in. Perhaps there could be a warning > whenever something like this is found: > > "the name of "[A-Z]*" "[A-Z]*" " yesterday, bug #757615 was closed which introduces a tag that warns about whitespaces in license names in DEP5 copyright files. This tag would highlight a license name of the pattern "the name of "[A-Z]*" "[A-Z]*" ". cheers, josch -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140907045114.3685.76410@hoothoot
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
On 06/09/14 11:34, Paul Wise wrote: > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 08:18 +0200, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > >> Paul pleasr open a bug under lintian. Will a source duplicate >> pedantic level > > I'm not sure there are enough copies to warrant this. There are many other licenses that are copies of Vinay's, just with a different name substituted in. Perhaps there could be a warning whenever something like this is found: "the name of "[A-Z]*" "[A-Z]*" " -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/540bd356.4060...@bitmessage.ch
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 08:18 +0200, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > Paul pleasr open a bug under lintian. Will a source duplicate pedantic > level I'm not sure there are enough copies to warrant this. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
Le 29 août 2014 16:51, "Paul Wise" a écrit : > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 3:00 AM, Dariusz Dwornikowski wrote: > > > one of Vinay's software that is used (as copies) is dictconfig. He > > keeps it here [1], should he relicense this in his repo, and we tell > > upstreams who copy to get the new relicensed version ? > > Personally I think all the relevant upstreams should remove the > duplicate code and depend on his versions instead. Debian should then > package his software and update the things that removed the duplicate > code to use the packages instead. Paul pleasr open a bug under lintian. Will a spurce duplicate pedantic level > https://wiki.debian.org/EmbeddedCodeCopies > > -- > bye, > pabs > > https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6Gnn2e4LBAm_MY=v25son4ryg_b1-zuadnznotv4vb...@mail.gmail.com >
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
> 1. I don't believe dictconfig is shipped separately - it's part of > logutils. Okay, thanks, I didn't realise that. > 2. Since 0.3.3, logutils uses what I believe is a standard 3-clause BSD > - see the LICENSE.txt [1]. That's good. The package maintainers will just need to update to use the new module, then. > 3. The Python standard library logging module is covered by the Python > license, so I don't believe it needs relicensing. As far as I can tell, the Python standard library logging module is covered by the Python license *and* the Vinay Sajip license - on Python's licensing page [1], they have a long list of "Licenses and Acknowledgements for Incorporated Software". (Perhaps someone else from -legal can confirm this?) > 4. The original logging module (pre inclusion in Python 2.3) is unlikely > ever to see another release, since AFAIK later versions of Python now > ship on Debian and its derivatives. It seems that xen still uses the original logging module: http://sources.debian.net/src/xen/4.4.0-4/tools/python/logging/logging-0.4.9.2/setup.py/?hl=12#L12 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5406e69b.7040...@bitmessage.ch
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
Dear Riley, Thanks for agreeing to relicense! The software of yours which we are currently using are: -dictconfig -logutils -Python standard library logging module -The python module called 'logging' which was designed for python versions earlier than 2.3 -Any contributions to python-pecan: http://sources.debian.net/src/python-pecan/0.6.1-2/debian/copyright/?hl=72#L72 Just some points about the above software: 1. I don't believe dictconfig is shipped separately - it's part of logutils. 2. Since 0.3.3, logutils uses what I believe is a standard 3-clause BSD - see the LICENSE.txt [1]. 3. The Python standard library logging module is covered by the Python license, so I don't believe it needs relicensing. 4. The original logging module (pre inclusion in Python 2.3) is unlikely ever to see another release, since AFAIK later versions of Python now ship on Debian and its derivatives. 5. I don't know of any contributions by me to python-pecan (I hadn't come across the project before) but I see that it uses logutils, and so should be covered by point 2. I reaffirm my willingness to relicense when I rerelease, but it doesn't look as if it's really needed in any of the cases you mentioned. I couldn't find any packages in the Debian package tree which matched dictconfig or the pre-2.3 logging module - I only found a match for logutils. Regards, Vinay Sajip [1] https://bitbucket.org/vinay.sajip/logutils/src/e338cb3f9a375e5aa5b4d17de4e3954edc9f4149/LICENSE.txt?at=0.3.3 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/c8485f5f1e0b1401e5a460377de3a...@webmail.webfaction.com
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
>> I'm from Debian GNU/Linux. On our legal mailing list, we've been having >> concerns about the license that you put most of your software under. >> Essentially, we think that when you say >> >> the name of Vinay Sajip >> not be used in advertising or publicity pertaining to distribution >> of the software without specific, written prior permission. >> >> it may prohibit people who are also named Vinay Sajip from releasing >> changes under their own name. We're pretty sure that this wasn't >> intended, but to allay our fears, would you mind relicensing your >> content under another license that we know to be free? From the way your >> license is written, I think that the 3-clause BSD license would be what >> you want. > > I'm pretty sure I'm the only Vinay Sajip on the planet right now, but I > suppose that could change in the future :-) I have no problems with > relicensing (as there was never any intent to restrict anyone else with > my name), but can you tell me which specific items of my software you > are referring to? Then I can update the licensing just for those items, > prior to their next release. Thanks for agreeing to relicense! The software of yours which we are currently using are: -dictconfig -logutils -Python standard library logging module -The python module called 'logging' which was designed for python versions earlier than 2.3 -Any contributions to python-pecan: http://sources.debian.net/src/python-pecan/0.6.1-2/debian/copyright/?hl=72#L72 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5400f8d0.7030...@bitmessage.ch
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 3:00 AM, Dariusz Dwornikowski wrote: > one of Vinay's software that is used (as copies) is dictconfig. He > keeps it here [1], should he relicense this in his repo, and we tell > upstreams who copy to get the new relicensed version ? Personally I think all the relevant upstreams should remove the duplicate code and depend on his versions instead. Debian should then package his software and update the things that removed the duplicate code to use the packages instead. https://wiki.debian.org/EmbeddedCodeCopies -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6Gnn2e4LBAm_MY=v25son4ryg_b1-zuadnznotv4vb...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
On 29.08.14 07:10:10, Riley Baird wrote: > On 29/08/14 07:05, Paul Wise wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Riley Baird wrote: > > > >> Afaict, the only Vinay Sajip-licensed code that Debian uses is the > >> Python logging module. Before I send a response to Vinay, can anyone > >> confirm that we don't use any more of his stuff? > >> > >> http://codesearch.debian.net/search?prev=&q=the+name+of+Vinay+Sajip > > > > I see these packages: python2.7 python3.4 xen python-django pypy > > jython python-pecan pastescript bicyclerepair gunicorn planet-venus > > Yes, but most of them seem to be using copies of the same code. > > one of Vinay's software that is used (as copies) is dictconfig. He keeps it here [1], should he relicense this in his repo, and we tell upstreams who copy to get the new relicensed version ? More of his software can be also found on bitbucket, like logutils, here is the list [2] [1] https://bitbucket.org/vinay.sajip/dictconfig/ [2] https://bitbucket.org/vinay.sajip -- Dariusz Dwornikowski, Institute of Computing Science, Poznań University of Technology www.cs.put.poznan.pl/ddwornikowski/ room 2.7.2 BTiCW | tel. +48 61 665 29 41 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
On 29/08/14 07:05, Paul Wise wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Riley Baird wrote: > >> Afaict, the only Vinay Sajip-licensed code that Debian uses is the >> Python logging module. Before I send a response to Vinay, can anyone >> confirm that we don't use any more of his stuff? >> >> http://codesearch.debian.net/search?prev=&q=the+name+of+Vinay+Sajip > > I see these packages: python2.7 python3.4 xen python-django pypy > jython python-pecan pastescript bicyclerepair gunicorn planet-venus Yes, but most of them seem to be using copies of the same code. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53ff9aba.1060...@bitmessage.ch
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Riley Baird wrote: > Afaict, the only Vinay Sajip-licensed code that Debian uses is the > Python logging module. Before I send a response to Vinay, can anyone > confirm that we don't use any more of his stuff? > > http://codesearch.debian.net/search?prev=&q=the+name+of+Vinay+Sajip I see these packages: python2.7 python3.4 xen python-django pypy jython python-pecan pastescript bicyclerepair gunicorn planet-venus -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caktje6glytyixdwnhiagn_bysu66yuvvojvjkw+j52qacxh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian and the Vinay Sajip License
Dear Riley, I'm from Debian GNU/Linux. On our legal mailing list, we've been having concerns about the license that you put most of your software under. Essentially, we think that when you say the name of Vinay Sajip not be used in advertising or publicity pertaining to distribution of the software without specific, written prior permission. it may prohibit people who are also named Vinay Sajip from releasing changes under their own name. We're pretty sure that this wasn't intended, but to allay our fears, would you mind relicensing your content under another license that we know to be free? From the way your license is written, I think that the 3-clause BSD license would be what you want. I'm pretty sure I'm the only Vinay Sajip on the planet right now, but I suppose that could change in the future :-) I have no problems with relicensing (as there was never any intent to restrict anyone else with my name), but can you tell me which specific items of my software you are referring to? Then I can update the licensing just for those items, prior to their next release. Regards, Vinay Sajip -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/7c228a39865dcf90f3d860b868b6f...@webmail.webfaction.com
