Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Kambiz Darabi]

Hi Mattia,

On 2015-12-28 18:56 CET, Mattia Rizzolo  wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 06:29:03PM +0100, Kambiz Darabi wrote:
>> sorry for bothering you again but there are people who are interested in
>> a new debian package of ASDF 3.1.6
>
> You didn't file a RFS.
> Me and other "random sponors you find in -mentors" checks
> https://bugs.debian.org/sponsorship-requests to see what is waiting for
> sponsorship, mails gets lost too easily.

thank you for the hint:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=809308

>> and I would like to at least have
>> some feedback on its packaging.
>>
>> Can some kind soul please upload the package if it is acceptable or let
>> me know what to change?
> Start by filing a formal RFS, I'm looking at the package, and compiling
> a list of staff I'd like to see changed before uploading.
> Actually, none of the things I noticed are important or blockers, but
> I don't like to upload stuff in a shape I don't like them :)

I'm looking forward to the comments.

Thank you


Kambiz

Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Mattia Rizzolo]

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 06:29:03PM +0100, Kambiz Darabi wrote:
> sorry for bothering you again but there are people who are interested in
> a new debian package of ASDF 3.1.6

You didn't file a RFS.
Me and other "random sponors you find in -mentors" checks
https://bugs.debian.org/sponsorship-requests to see what is waiting for
sponsorship, mails gets lost too easily.


> and I would like to at least have
> some feedback on its packaging.
>
> Can some kind soul please upload the package if it is acceptable or let
> me know what to change?
Start by filing a formal RFS, I'm looking at the package, and compiling
a list of staff I'd like to see changed before uploading.
Actually, none of the things I noticed are important or blockers, but
I don't like to upload stuff in a shape I don't like them :)

> Thank you

btw, sorry for the late reply.

-- 
regards,
Mattia Rizzolo

GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18  4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540  .''`.
more about me:  http://mapreri.org  : :'  :
Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri  `. `'`
Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia  `-


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Description: PGP signature

Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Kambiz Darabi]

Hi all,

sorry for bothering you again but there are people who are interested in
a new debian package of ASDF 3.1.6 and I would like to at least have
some feedback on its packaging.

Can some kind soul please upload the package if it is acceptable or let
me know what to change?

Thank you


Kambiz

On 2015-12-06 20:55 CET, Kambiz Darabi  wrote:

> Dear Common Lisp team,
> dear mentors,
>
> as it's my first time, I wonder whether I have made a mistake while
> uploading the new version:
>
> http://mentors.debian.net/package/cl-asdf
>
> Should I change something?
>
> Thank you
>
>
> Kambiz
>
> On 2015-11-23 21:43 CET, Kambiz Darabi  wrote:
>
>> Dear mentors,
>>
>> I have taken over the debian packaging for ASDF from Faré and am looking
>> for sponsors for the current 3.1.6 release.
>>
>> Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that it works for
>> you.
>>
>> The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
>>
>> cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility
>>
>> The package appears to be lintian clean.
>>
>> To access further information about this package, please visit the following 
>> URL:
>>
>>   http://mentors.debian.net/package/cl-asdf
>>
>> Alternatively, one can download the package with dget using this command:
>>
>>   dget -x 
>> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.1.6-1.dsc
>>
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>> Kambiz Darabi
>> -- 
>> m-creations gmbh
>> Acker 2
>> 55116 Mainz
>> Germany
>>
>> W: http://www.m-creations.com
>> E: darabi@m-creations.[com|net]

Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Kambiz Darabi]

Dear Common Lisp team,
dear mentors,

as it's my first time, I wonder whether I have made a mistake while
uploading the new version:

http://mentors.debian.net/package/cl-asdf

Should I change something?

Thank you


Kambiz

On 2015-11-23 21:43 CET, Kambiz Darabi  wrote:

> Dear mentors,
>
> I have taken over the debian packaging for ASDF from Faré and am looking
> for sponsors for the current 3.1.6 release.
>
> Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that it works for
> you.
>
> The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
>
> cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility
>
> The package appears to be lintian clean.
>
> To access further information about this package, please visit the following 
> URL:
>
>   http://mentors.debian.net/package/cl-asdf
>
> Alternatively, one can download the package with dget using this command:
>
>   dget -x 
> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.1.6-1.dsc
>
>
> Thank you
>
>
> Kambiz Darabi
> -- 
> m-creations gmbh
> Acker 2
> 55116 Mainz
> Germany
>
> W: http://www.m-creations.com
> E: darabi@m-creations.[com|net]

Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Kambiz Darabi]

Dear Common Lisp team,
dear mentors,

as it's my first time, I wonder whether I have made a mistake while
uploading the new version:

http://mentors.debian.net/package/cl-asdf

Should I change something?

Thank you


Kambiz

On 2015-11-23 21:43 CET, Kambiz Darabi  wrote:

> Dear mentors,
>
> I have taken over the debian packaging for ASDF from Faré and am looking
> for sponsors for the current 3.1.6 release.
>
> Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that it works for
> you.
>
> The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
>
> cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility
>
> The package appears to be lintian clean.
>
> To access further information about this package, please visit the following 
> URL:
>
>   http://mentors.debian.net/package/cl-asdf
>
> Alternatively, one can download the package with dget using this command:
>
>   dget -x 
> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.1.6-1.dsc
>
>
> Thank you
>
>
> Kambiz Darabi
> -- 
> m-creations gmbh
> Acker 2
> 55116 Mainz
> Germany
>
> W: http://www.m-creations.com
> E: darabi@m-creations.[com|net]

RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Kambiz Darabi]

Dear mentors,

I have taken over the debian packaging for ASDF from Faré and am looking
for sponsors for the current 3.1.6 release.

Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that it works for
you.

The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:

cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

The package appears to be lintian clean.

To access further information about this package, please visit the following 
URL:

  http://mentors.debian.net/package/cl-asdf

Alternatively, one can download the package with dget using this command:

  dget -x 
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.1.6-1.dsc


Thank you


Kambiz Darabi
-- 
m-creations gmbh
Acker 2
55116 Mainz
Germany

W: http://www.m-creations.com
E: darabi@m-creations.[com|net]

Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Christoph Egger]

Faré f...@tunes.org writes:
 On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Christoph Egger
 christ...@christoph-egger.org wrote:
 Christoph Egger christ...@debian.org writes:
 There seems to be a somewhat large diff between the upstream release
 and the debian package source? Is this on purpose?

 Then the debian package seems to be (almost) the same as the git archive
 but quite different from the tarball

 Well, this was kind of on purpose. The upstream tarball was broken
 from the release branch, so I built it from the minimakefile branch,
 where the release code was fully rewritten in Lisp and debugged,
 instead of being a haphazard mix of Makefile, shell scripting and Lisp
 code with bits of perl. I believe the debian release script was built
 from the release branch, with a tiny commit to debian/rules as
 compared to the version tagged 3.1.5 upstream. In all cases, the asdf
 code itself is unchanged, but some of the build and packaging files
 have been tweaked.

 The situation is therefore not perfect, even though everything in
 under source control. I'd hope for a new debian package maintainer to
 fix all those kinks; maybe have a separate git branch and/or repo.

Allright, thanks for the explanation! I'll upload then

  Christoph

-- 
9FED 5C6C E206 B70A 5857  70CA 9655 22B9 D49A E731
Debian Developer | Lisp Hacker | CaCert Assurer


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Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Christoph Egger]

Hi!

Christoph Egger christ...@debian.org writes:
 There seems to be a somewhat large diff between the upstream release
 and the debian package source? Is this on purpose?

Then the debian package seems to be (almost) the same as the git archive
but quite different from the tarball

  Christoph

-- 
9FED 5C6C E206 B70A 5857  70CA 9655 22B9 D49A E731
Debian Developer | Lisp Hacker | CaCert Assurer


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Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Faré]

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Christoph Egger
christ...@christoph-egger.org wrote:
 Christoph Egger christ...@debian.org writes:
 There seems to be a somewhat large diff between the upstream release
 and the debian package source? Is this on purpose?

 Then the debian package seems to be (almost) the same as the git archive
 but quite different from the tarball

Well, this was kind of on purpose. The upstream tarball was broken
from the release branch, so I built it from the minimakefile branch,
where the release code was fully rewritten in Lisp and debugged,
instead of being a haphazard mix of Makefile, shell scripting and Lisp
code with bits of perl. I believe the debian release script was built
from the release branch, with a tiny commit to debian/rules as
compared to the version tagged 3.1.5 upstream. In all cases, the asdf
code itself is unchanged, but some of the build and packaging files
have been tweaked.

The situation is therefore not perfect, even though everything in
under source control. I'd hope for a new debian package maintainer to
fix all those kinks; maybe have a separate git branch and/or repo.

—♯ƒ • François-René ÐVB Rideau •ReflectionCybernethics• http://fare.tunes.org
The main reason Santa is so jolly is because
he knows where all the bad girls live.


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Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Christoph Egger]

Hi!

Faré f...@tunes.org writes:
 It has many bug fixes, most importantly with debian Bug#787909,
 an incompatibility of 3.1.4 with the latest SBCL.

 Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that
 it works fine for you.

 The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
 cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

There seems to be a somewhat large diff between the upstream release
and the debian package source? Is this on purpose?

  Christoph

% diff -ur asdf-3.1.5 cl-asdf-3.1.5 | diffstat
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/asdf-tools |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/asdf-tools.asd |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/build.lisp |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/git.lisp   |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/installation.lisp  |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/main.lisp  |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/package.lisp   |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/pathnames.lisp |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/release.lisp   |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/test-all.lisp  |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/test-basic.lisp|only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/test-environment.lisp  |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/test-scripts.lisp  |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/test-upgrade.lisp  |only
 asdf-3.1.5/tools/version.lisp   |only
 cl-asdf-3.1.5/.cl-source-registry.cache |6 
 cl-asdf-3.1.5/.gitmodules   |6 
 cl-asdf-3.1.5/.pc   |only
 cl-asdf-3.1.5/Makefile  |  352 +---
 cl-asdf-3.1.5/README.md |   18 -
 cl-asdf-3.1.5/bin   |only
 cl-asdf-3.1.5/ext   |only
 cl-asdf-3.1.5/test/run-tests.sh |only
 cl-asdf-3.1.5/test/script-support.lisp  |2 
 cl-asdf-3.1.5/tools/load-asdf.lisp  |4 
 25 files changed, 288 insertions(+), 100 deletions(-)

-- 
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Debian Developer | Lisp Hacker | CaCert Assurer


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Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Faré]

Dear Common-Lisp-inclined Debian mentors,

I have uploaded to mentors a debian package for cl-asdf 3.1.5.
I'm hoping that in the future, someone else could take over
the debian packaging for asdf, but we'll see.
(Kambiz, are you still interested?)

It has many bug fixes, most importantly with debian Bug#787909,
an incompatibility of 3.1.4 with the latest SBCL.

Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that
it works fine for you.

The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

The package appears to be lintian clean, except for the warnings
explained above.

The package cl-asdf can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf
- dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.1.5-1.dsc

Thank you

—♯ƒ • François-René ÐVB Rideau •ReflectionCybernethics• http://fare.tunes.org
And have you ever had the thought that flying is wasted on birds, since few if
any of them seem capable of *appreciating* the deliciousness of their activity?
— Daniel C. Dennett, Consciousness Explained (1991), p. 62


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Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Milan Zamazal]

Done.  The package didn't build, so I had to add a small patch —
apparently the last line in Makefile should start with a tab instead of
spaces.


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Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Robert P. Goldman]

Milan Zamazal wrote:
 Done.  The package didn't build, so I had to add a small patch —
 apparently the last line in Makefile should start with a tab instead of
 spaces.


Thanks.  We caught that later, but only after the release :-/

Standard tab-avoidance behavior not good on makefiles...

cheers,

r


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Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Faré]

Dear Common-Lisp-inclined Debian mentors,

I have uploaded to mentors a debian package for cl-asdf 3.1.4.
I'm hoping that in the future, someone else could take over
the debian packaging for asdf, but we'll see.
(Kambiz, are you still interested?)

It's mostly a bug fix release as compared to 3.1.3, but
it also includes some tools that confuse lintian:
cl-source-registry-cache.lisp which is a /usr/bin/cl script
that relies on cl-launch, and asdf-tools and install-asdf.lisp
that are loadable lisp source files that happen to also work
when invoked by a shell.

Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that
it works fine for you.

Note that I used the minimakefile branch of git rather than
the release branch to produce the tarball and debian package,
because said branch has an update release script written in Common Lisp,
whereas the script in the master and release branches are bitrotten,
and isn't worth fixing. The code and documentation are identical,
only the release script is different (and improved).

The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

The package appears to be lintian clean, except for the warnings
explained above.

The package cl-asdf can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf
- dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.1.4-1.dsc

Thank you

—♯ƒ • François-René ÐVB Rideau •ReflectionCybernethics• http://fare.tunes.org
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of
individual ignorance.  — H.L. Mencken


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Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Faré]

Dear mentors,

I have uploaded to mentors a debian package for cl-asdf 3.1.3. I'm
hoping that in the future, someone else could take over the debian
packaging for asdf, but we'll see. (Kambiz, are you still interested?)

It's a bug fix release as compared to 3.1.2, with some bugs that would
have blocked the previous release if detected earlier, though nothing
that surfaced in normal usage and/or our extensive tests.

Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that it works fine for
you.

The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

The package appears to be lintian clean.

The package cl-asdf can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf
- dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.1.3-1.dsc

Thank you

—♯ƒ • François-René ÐVB Rideau •ReflectionCybernethics• http://fare.tunes.org
Not all Law is created equal before Man. Some Law causes least conflict and
least perverse incentives. By definition we call it Natural Law.


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Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Faré]

Dear mentors,

never say never. Here I am packaging cl-asdf for debian once more.
One last time, I hope (I don't use debian much anymore, I moved to NixOS,
and I'm trying to wean off ASDF, too).
Robert Goldman can't take over after all, but maybe Kambiz Darabi can.

Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that it works fine for
you.

The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

The package appears to be lintian clean.

The package cl-asdf can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf
- dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.1.2-2.dsc

—♯ƒ • François-René ÐVB Rideau •ReflectionCybernethics• http://fare.tunes.org
The party of the first part shall be known in this contract
as the party of the first part.
— Groucho Marx


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Re: RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Milan Zamazal]

 RG == Robert Goldman rpgold...@sift.net writes:

RG Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that it works
RG fine for you.

I'll try to do it soon.


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RFS: Please upload cl-asdf package

[Robert Goldman]

Dear mentors,

I have taken over the debian packaging for ASDF from Fare.  We have just
released version 3.1.2, and I have put the package up using dput.  Note
that I am a novice at this, so it's quite likely I have gotten something
wrong.

This brand new ASDF release has received a lot of testing, probably more
than any previous release, as our testing infrastructure has improved.
It contains many bugfixes, per the changelog.

Please upload the cl-asdf package, after checking that it works fine for
you.

The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

The package appears to be lintian clean.

The package cl-asdf can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf
- dget
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.1.2-1.dsc

Thank you

-- 
Robert P. Goldman
Staff Scientist
Smart Information Flow Technologies (d/b/a SIFT, LLC)

319 1st Ave N., Suite 400
Minneapolis, MN 55401

Voice:(612) 326-3934
Email:rpgold...@sift.net


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Re: RFS: please upload cl-asdf package

[Christoph Egger]

Hi Faré

Faré f...@tunes.org writes:
 I'm still doing the debian packaging for ASDF at this point in time
 for the new upstream maintainer Robert Goldman.

 This brand new ASDF release received a lot of testing, and
 fixes a shameful bug in previous recent releases
 that affects usability under debian (#723977).

 Can one of the active CL debian hackers please upload the cl-asdf
 package, after checking that it works fine for you?

 The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
 cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

 The package appears to be lintian clean.

 The package cl-asdf can be found on mentors.debian.net:
 - URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf
 - Source repository: deb-src http://mentors.debian.net/debian unstable
 main contrib non-free
 - dget 
 http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.0.3-1.dsc

Sorry for the delay, it is building right now!

  Christoph

-- 
9FED 5C6C E206 B70A 5857  70CA 9655 22B9 D49A E731
Debian Developer | Lisp Hacker | CaCert Assurer


pgpQPBFZatONa.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: RFS: please upload cl-asdf package

[Faré]

Dear mentors,

I'm still doing the debian packaging for ASDF at this point in time
for the new upstream maintainer Robert Goldman.

This brand new ASDF release received a lot of testing, and
fixes a shameful bug in previous recent releases
that affects usability under debian (#723977).

Can one of the active CL debian hackers please upload the cl-asdf
package, after checking that it works fine for you?

The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

The package appears to be lintian clean.

The package cl-asdf can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf
- Source repository: deb-src http://mentors.debian.net/debian unstable
main contrib non-free
- dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.0.3-1.dsc

King regards,

—♯ƒ • François-René ÐVB Rideau •ReflectionCybernethics• http://fare.tunes.org
The people cannot delegate to government the power to do
anything which would be unlawful for them to do themselves.
— John Locke, A Treatise Concerning Civil Government


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Re: RFS: please upload cl-asdf package

[Milan Zamazal]

 F == Faré  f...@tunes.org writes:

F - dget
F 
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.0.2.4-1.dsc
F I would be glad if someone uploaded these packages for me.

Done.


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Re: RFS: please upload cl-asdf package

[Faré]

Dear mentors,

OK, Robert Goldman, the new ASDF maintainer, can't do the debian
release at this time, so until someone picks up the slack, I'll keep
doing it, at least from time to time.

Can one of the active CL debian hackers please upload the cl-asdf
package, after checking that it works fine for you? Our previous
upload failed, probably because dput refused to clobber the .orig
tarball between two attempts. Therefore, I tried to release a new
version.

The cl-asdf source package builds this binary package:
cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

The package appears to be lintian clean.

The package cl-asdf can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf
- Source repository: deb-src http://mentors.debian.net/debian unstable
main contrib non-free
- dget 
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.0.2.4-1.dsc

I would be glad if someone uploaded these packages for me.

Kind regards

—♯ƒ • François-René ÐVB Rideau •ReflectionCybernethics• http://fare.tunes.org
For pretty much every writer, the big problem isn't piracy, it's obscurity.
— Tim O'Reilly, as cited by Cory Doctorow


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Re: RFS: please upload cl-asdf package

[Christoph Egger]

Hi!

Faré f...@tunes.org writes:
 On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Robert Goldman rpgold...@sift.info wrote:
 - dget 
 http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.0.2-1.dsc

Upstream tarbal is 
6f78cb311f9b8756ebed5924a6bd7302e283ccbf

The dsc mentions
7987d33bafe5a1f0fa91a7380a3594206a5a0cdb

Is this intentional?

Regards

Christoph


pgpg5f7Nvr_ZT.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RFS: please upload cl-asdf package

[Faré]

On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Robert Goldman rpgold...@sift.info wrote:
 Faré passed on to me the maintenance chores for cl-asdf, and together we
 submitted the latest release to the mentors web site.

 Please contact Faré and me for more information.

 Best,
 Robert Goldman

Dear mentors,

Robert Goldman is the new maintainer of ASDF, and like me before, he's
been building the cl-asdf package for debian, too. He's put the
package on mentors last month, but his RFS didn't get attention
(possibly because he wasn't using the standard RFS format, but also
possibly because there are few active CL debian maintainers these
days). Can one of the active CL debian hackers please upload the
cl-asdf package?

It builds these binary packages:
cl-asdf- Another System Definition Facility

The package appears to be lintian clean.

The package cl-asdf can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf
- Source repository: deb-src http://mentors.debian.net/debian unstable
main contrib non-free
- dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cl-asdf/cl-asdf_3.0.2-1.dsc

I would be glad if someone uploaded these packages for me.

Kind regards

—♯ƒ • François-René ÐVB Rideau •ReflectionCybernethics• http://fare.tunes.org
No woman ever falls in love with a man unless she has
a better opinion of him than he deserves.   — Edgar Watson Howe


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