Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Joachim Reichel]

Hi Benoît,

> Since last comments, I removed notorious-women package by twice
> package named : fortunes-nortorious-women and
> fortunes-notorious-women-fr according of your advices.
> I add a watch file in debian directory and the original tarball
> contains now some french and english quotes.
> Do you make another RFS request for this new version ?

if these are the only changes then your package still contains a couple of
issues that have been pointed out in previous reviews (including warnings from
lintian). In this state I don't see the point of another review.

Joachim


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[benoît tuduri]

Hello,

Since last comments, I removed notorious-women package by twice
package named : fortunes-nortorious-women and
fortunes-notorious-women-fr according of your advices.
I add a watch file in debian directory and the original tarball
contains now some french and english quotes.
Do you make another RFS request for this new version ?

Your fairthfully,


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Tim Retout]

On 19 June 2010 00:55, Craig Small  wrote:
> Getting back on topic, the name isn't too bad, though I do agree a name
> like fortunes-fr-*whatever* or fortunes-*whatever*-fr would be better,
> assuming that it is a fortune file and the quotes are in french, as
> opposed to french women quoted in english.
>
> I also read that someone said notorious is the same as famous people.

Ah, perhaps the package should be called "fortunes-fr-famous-females".

-- 
Tim Retout 


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Craig Small]

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 09:17:52AM +0200, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> 
> Bilal Akhtar wrote:
> > Just take the case of my package gnome-media-player. I submitted the RFS
> > two months ago, and got a large number of replies, everyone saying "How
> > can you use this package name? It is *not* the official GNOME's Media
> > Player (Totem Is) and so you should change the package name." No one ever
Seems like an extremely sensible decision to me.

> I find funny how the "it is in Ubuntu, it must be good" argument is used so 
> often. The fact that "Ubuntu" accepted that package with said name doesn't 
> necessarily make it good or suitable as-is for Debian. Different distros, 
> different policies and different people.
I get that too.  Sometimes it is valid, sometimes it is the equivalent
of small children saying "well all my friends are doing it why can't I?"
i.e. the only argument for it is someone somewhere didn't object to it.

I've seen some really bad patches go into Ubuntu, for example. This
doesn't mean the entire distribution is terrible or all Unbuntu-specific
patches are bad, but I would advise you check them yourself first.

Getting back on topic, the name isn't too bad, though I do agree a name
like fortunes-fr-*whatever* or fortunes-*whatever*-fr would be better,
assuming that it is a fortune file and the quotes are in french, as
opposed to french women quoted in english.

I also read that someone said notorious is the same as famous people.  I while
strictly speaking they may be definied the same, for most english
speakers it means in a negative way.  Someone who is a well-known
criminal would be notorious.  A famous person who saves lives of others
probably is not. A grey area is where the person is famous, but
notorious for saying socially iffy quotes.

 - Craig

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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Didier 'OdyX' Raboud]

Hi, 

Bilal Akhtar wrote:

> Sorry for the damage caused by my message about the package being
> "sexist".
> 
> I just wished to point out this to you, since I very well know that, in
> order to get packages accepted in Debian, the package name must be
> well-formed.

It's not only "well-known", it's mandated by our Policy.

> Just take the case of my package gnome-media-player. I submitted the RFS
> two months ago, and got a large number of replies, everyone saying "How
> can you use this package name? It is *not* the official GNOME's Media
> Player (Totem Is) and so you should change the package name." No one ever
> seemed to care even after I said that the package is already in Ubuntu
> (proof at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-media-player ). I was
> finally forced to get the package into Ubuntu and give up Debian (the
> upstream advised this).

I find funny how the "it is in Ubuntu, it must be good" argument is used so 
often. The fact that "Ubuntu" accepted that package with said name doesn't 
necessarily make it good or suitable as-is for Debian. Different distros, 
different policies and different people.

You were asked to change your package name to avoid confusion between that 
media player and the "official GNOME Media Player" - you chose to not do so, 
I don't see where you were "forced" to get the package in Ubuntu.

> If package names matter so much, then I felt like this package might
> also not get accepted into the archives. Sorry for being harsh in my
> comments. Will take care of it from next time onwards.

It seems that you are mixing your own package issue (name collision and 
confusion) with that one (you argued about it being "sexist"). Those issues 
have nothing to do with eachother IMHO.

> Cheers,
> Bilal Akhtar

Cheers,

OdyX


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Bilal Akhtar]

Sorry for the damage caused by my message about the package being
"sexist".

I just wished to point out this to you, since I very well know that, in
order to get packages accepted in Debian, the package name must be
well-formed. Just take the case of my package gnome-media-player. I
submitted the RFS two months ago, and got a large number of replies,
everyone saying "How can you use this package name? It is *not* the
official GNOME's Media Player (Totem Is) and so you should change the
package name." No one ever seemed to care even after I said that the
package is already in Ubuntu ( proof at
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-media-player ). I was finally
forced to get the package into Ubuntu and give up Debian (the upstream
advised this). 

If package names matter so much, then I felt like this package might
also not get accepted into the archives. Sorry for being harsh in my
comments. Will take care of it from next time onwards.

Cheers,
Bilal Akhtar

On Thu, 2010-06-17 at 21:00 +0200, benoît tuduri wrote:
> Hello Bilal Akhtar,
> 
> Who are you ?
> 
> I don't know what does it mean ? It's a just a little package with
> some interesting quote, neither more neither less.
> 
> It's really difficult to have a sponsorship with debian. Joachim
> replied to me with some update due to my lintian warning and now it's
> good.
> 
> Who can help me a beginner to introduce my work in debian ?
> 
> Sincerly,
> 
> Benoît
> 
> Le 17 juin 2010 20:16, Bilal Akhtar  a écrit :
> > Isn't this a sexist package?
> >
> > Just my 2 cents,
> > Bilal Akhtar.
> >
> > On Thu, 2010-06-17 at 19:51 +0200, benoît tuduri wrote:
> >> Dear mentors,
> >>
> >> I am looking for a sponsor for my package "notorious-women".
> >>
> >> * Package name: notorious-women
> >>   Version : 0.1-1
> >>   Upstream Author : TUDURI Benoît 
> >> * URL :  
> >> 
> >> * License : Creative Commons
> >> Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
> >> 
> >>   Section : games
> >>
> >> It builds these binary packages:
> >> notorious-women - notorious women quotes
> >>
> >> The package appears to be lintian clean.
> >>
> >> My motivation for maintaining this package is: Because i love to read
> >> and to learn quote for educational purpose.
> >>
> >> The package can be found on mentors.debian.net:
> >> - URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women
> >> - Source repository: deb-src http://mentors.debian.net/debian unstable
> >> main contrib non-free
> >> - dget 
> >> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women/notorious-women_0.1-1.dsc
> >>
> >> I would be glad if someone uploaded this package for me.
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>  TUDURI Benoît
> >>
> >>
> >
> >



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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Umang Varma]

On 06/17/2010 11:21 PM, benoît tuduri wrote:
> Dear mentors,
> 
> I am looking for a sponsor for my package "notorious-women".

The last time you sent this, Joachim Reichel said: [1]

> Why is this a separate package at all? Have you contacted the fortunes-fr
> maintainer and asked him to include these quotes? I still think this should 
> not
> be a separate package.
> 
> If it is going to be maintained as a separate packge: As far as I can see all
> fortunes modules start with the prefix "fortunes-". And since the packages
> contains French quotes, the name should end up in "-fr".

[1]: http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2010/06/msg00340.html

Look into going one of the two routes suggested, or explain why you
think you shouldn't do so. (Ignore this message if you've already
discussed this with him off-list).


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Rogério Brito]

Hi, Benoît,

On Jun 18 2010, benoît tuduri wrote:
> I launched to build my package the debuild command in a command line.
> The only errors which are reported for my last upload are :
> W: notorious-women: new-package-should-close-itp-bug
> W: notorious-women: wrong-bug-number-in-closes l3:#
> W: notorious-women: extra-license-file usr/share/doc/notorious-women/COPYING

Just for the record, when you upload some packages to the mentors site,
it tells you at least some of the most pressing things that you should
fix, if you visit the package page that is automatically created.

Those messages are generated with explanations and it is enlightening if
you can study their meaning and see how your package could be made more
robust/better.

In fact, it is a very good thing to always think: "can I package this in
a better, easier way, that is more general, that will save me some work
in the future?"  Being your first critic is a good step to improve your
skills.

That being said, the automated checking programs can assist you in
learning about aspects where you can improve your package.

> I didn't chose the artistic of dh-make options because it's not the
> precisely the same that i put in copying file, i guess (i'm not a
> legal term expert) :-)

I have not seen the contents of your package, but I suppose that it is
you that prepared the package. If that is correct, do you insist in it
having that exact license?

The "non-commercial" part of the license that you chosen makes it
non-free in Debian. If you remove that part, then it can, from a legal
standpoint, become part of the Debian distribution (just a reminder: the
non-free section of the archive is not considered part of Debian).


Regards,

-- 
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http://rb.doesntexist.org : Packages for LaTeX : algorithms.berlios.de
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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Ben Finney]

Bilal Akhtar  writes:

> Isn't this a sexist package?

Yes, by definition: it discriminates on the basis of sex. There's
nothing wrong with discrimination as such; any act of choosing is an act
of discrimination.

The more interesting question is: Is it unfairly sexist?

I don't think so; it's merely collecting quotes that fit a particular
category. There's nothing stopping anyone from making a similar
‘famous-men’ collection.

-- 
 \   “Let others praise ancient times; I am glad I was born in |
  `\  these.” —Ovid (43 BCE–18 CE) |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[benoît tuduri]

Hello,

Thanks you for your answer.
I discovered this mailing list recently because i not see some
references on it on mentors.debian.net website.

So, I'm working on ubuntu system. Some errors/warning errors are not
to be strict.
I chrooted a debian sid with debootstrap to be able to notice theses
errors/warnings.

I launched to build my package the debuild command in a command line.
The only errors which are reported for my last upload are :
W: notorious-women: new-package-should-close-itp-bug
W: notorious-women: wrong-bug-number-in-closes l3:#
W: notorious-women: extra-license-file usr/share/doc/notorious-women/COPYING

I didn't chose the artistic of dh-make options because it's not the
precisely the same that i put in copying file, i guess (i'm not a
legal term expert) :-)

Else since sunday, I update like you said :
Just for reference: the only differences to the first RFS in this thread are
- Standards-Version: s/3.8.3/3.8.4/
- ${misc:Depends} added to Depends:
- short description improved
- debian/source/format added (3.0 quilt)



Le 17 juin 2010 23:30, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.  a écrit :
> On Thursday 17 June 2010 12:51:47 benoît tuduri wrote:
>> Dear mentors,
>>
>> I am looking for a sponsor for my package "notorious-women".
>
> There have been a number of replies each time you sent this message.  Perhaps
> you are not receiving them.  I am CC'ing you on this reply, in case you are
> not subscribed to the mailing list.
>
> I am doing this in direct violation of the Debian Mailing List Code of Conduct
>  with the hope that it does
> not offend.  Normally, replies to list are to be sent to the list *only*.  If
> you would like all list postings, you can subscribe to the list; if you only
> want the replies to your messages you should explicitly request a CC in each
> message you send to the list, although it is possible that you do not get a CC
> for all messages you might be interested in.
>
> If you choose not to subscribe to the list, you should be sure to check the
> mailing list archives  for any
> relevant message you might not have received before sending a post to the
> list.  In fact the list archive can be a wealth of information, but it is
> easily forgiven to not read the whole thing -- it is rather large.
> --
> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.                   ,= ,-_-. =.
> b...@iguanasuicide.net                   ((_/)o o(\_))
> ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy         `-'(. .)`-'
> http://iguanasuicide.net/                    \_/
>


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Thursday 17 June 2010 12:51:47 benoît tuduri wrote:
> Dear mentors,
> 
> I am looking for a sponsor for my package "notorious-women".

There have been a number of replies each time you sent this message.  Perhaps 
you are not receiving them.  I am CC'ing you on this reply, in case you are 
not subscribed to the mailing list.

I am doing this in direct violation of the Debian Mailing List Code of Conduct 
 with the hope that it does 
not offend.  Normally, replies to list are to be sent to the list *only*.  If 
you would like all list postings, you can subscribe to the list; if you only 
want the replies to your messages you should explicitly request a CC in each 
message you send to the list, although it is possible that you do not get a CC 
for all messages you might be interested in.

If you choose not to subscribe to the list, you should be sure to check the 
mailing list archives  for any 
relevant message you might not have received before sending a post to the 
list.  In fact the list archive can be a wealth of information, but it is 
easily forgiven to not read the whole thing -- it is rather large.
-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.   ,= ,-_-. =.
b...@iguanasuicide.net  ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Joachim Reichel]

Hi Benoît,

> I am looking for a sponsor for my package "notorious-women".
> 
> * Package name: notorious-women
[...]

since this is the third RFS message for this package and most issues pointed out
in the initial reply haven't been addressed:

When you post repeated RFS messages, can you please tell us

- what you changed/which issues have been fixed
- which issues are still open/known problems
- answer questions/comment suggestions from potential sponsors

Most issues mentioned in
http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2010/06/msg00340.html
have not been fixed nor the questions were answered. See also Paul's mail about
the license problem, and Boyd's mail about the package name.

Just for reference: the only differences to the first RFS in this thread are
- Standards-Version: s/3.8.3/3.8.4/
- ${misc:Depends} added to Depends:
- short description improved
- debian/source/format added (3.0 quilt)

And please do run lintian on the package.

Joachim


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Thursday 17 June 2010 13:16:08 Bilal Akhtar wrote:
> Isn't this a sexist package?

Sexist against women?  Maybe.

At the very least, "notorious" has a had a negative denotaion since the 1600s, 
and probably shouldn't be applied without good justification.  I'd prefer a 
more neutral or positive term be used.  "Famous" is probably sufficient.

Sexist against men?  Probably.

Excluding quotes from this package on the sole grounds that they are from a 
male is the very definition of sexist.  That said, I don't find it to be 
offensive sexism; it is simple categorization with no ulterior motives that I 
can imagine.
-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.   ,= ,-_-. =.
b...@iguanasuicide.net  ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Bilal Akhtar]

Isn't this a sexist package?

Just my 2 cents,
Bilal Akhtar.

On Thu, 2010-06-17 at 19:51 +0200, benoît tuduri wrote:
> Dear mentors,
> 
> I am looking for a sponsor for my package "notorious-women".
> 
> * Package name: notorious-women
>   Version : 0.1-1
>   Upstream Author : TUDURI Benoît 
> * URL :  
> * License : Creative Commons
> Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
> 
>   Section : games
> 
> It builds these binary packages:
> notorious-women - notorious women quotes
> 
> The package appears to be lintian clean.
> 
> My motivation for maintaining this package is: Because i love to read
> and to learn quote for educational purpose.
> 
> The package can be found on mentors.debian.net:
> - URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women
> - Source repository: deb-src http://mentors.debian.net/debian unstable
> main contrib non-free
> - dget 
> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women/notorious-women_0.1-1.dsc
> 
> I would be glad if someone uploaded this package for me.
> 
> Kind regards
>  TUDURI Benoît
> 
> 



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RFS: notorious-women

[benoît tuduri]

Dear mentors,

I am looking for a sponsor for my package "notorious-women".

* Package name: notorious-women
  Version : 0.1-1
  Upstream Author : TUDURI Benoît 
* URL :  
* License : Creative Commons
Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported

  Section : games

It builds these binary packages:
notorious-women - notorious women quotes

The package appears to be lintian clean.

My motivation for maintaining this package is: Because i love to read
and to learn quote for educational purpose.

The package can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women
- Source repository: deb-src http://mentors.debian.net/debian unstable
main contrib non-free
- dget 
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women/notorious-women_0.1-1.dsc

I would be glad if someone uploaded this package for me.

Kind regards
 TUDURI Benoît


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Joachim Reichel]

Hi,

> I am looking for a sponsor for my package "notorious-women".
> 
> * Package name: notorious-women
>   Version : 0.1-1
>   Upstream Author : TUDURI Benoît 
> * URL : http://alioth.debian.org/~bent-guest/notorious-women/
> * License : Creative Commons
> Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
> 
>   Section : games
> 
> It builds these binary packages:
> notorious-women - french famous french women quotes
> 
> My motivation for maintaining this package is: [fill in].
> 
> The package can be found on mentors.debian.net:
> - URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women
> - Source repository: deb-src http://mentors.debian.net/debian unstable
> main contrib non-free
> - dget 
> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women/notorious-women_0.1-1.dsc

apart from the license issue mentioned by Paul:

Most of the issues mentioned in
http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2010/06/msg00233.html
are still present in this package:

Why is this a separate package at all? Have you contacted the fortunes-fr
maintainer and asked him to include these quotes? I still think this should not
be a separate package.

If it is going to be maintained as a separate packge: As far as I can see all
fortunes modules start with the prefix "fortunes-". And since the packages
contains French quotes, the name should end up in "-fr".

Lintian output:

I: notorious-women source: debian-watch-file-is-missing
W: notorious-women source: debhelper-but-no-misc-depends notorious-women
W: notorious-women source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.8.3 (current is 
3.8.4)
W: notorious-women: new-package-should-close-itp-bug
W: notorious-women: wrong-bug-number-in-closes l3:#
W: notorious-women: extra-license-file usr/share/doc/notorious-women/COPYING

Please use lintian before posting another RFS request.

debian/changelog: Fill with content.
debian/rules: Please remove the comments that do not apply to/are not needed in
your package.
debian/control: Syntax errors in short/long description.
debian/README.Debian: Useless, it's current content is contained in the long
description. Fill with real content, or remove the file.

Joachim


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Re: RFS: notorious-women

[Paul Wise]

2010/6/17 benoît tuduri :

> * License         : Creative Commons
> Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
> 
>  Section         : games
...
> - dget 
> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women/notorious-women_0.1-1.dsc

This is non-free, please put it in the right section since it clearly
is not a candidate for Debian main.

> My motivation for maintaining this package is: [fill in].

At the very least Debian expects people to be able to read the
template and edit it before sending it, please do that next time.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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RFS: notorious-women

[benoît tuduri]

Dear mentors,

I am looking for a sponsor for my package "notorious-women".

* Package name: notorious-women
  Version : 0.1-1
  Upstream Author : TUDURI Benoît 
* URL : http://alioth.debian.org/~bent-guest/notorious-women/
* License : Creative Commons
Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported

  Section : games

It builds these binary packages:
notorious-women - french famous french women quotes

My motivation for maintaining this package is: [fill in].

The package can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women
- Source repository: deb-src http://mentors.debian.net/debian unstable
main contrib non-free
- dget 
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/n/notorious-women/notorious-women_0.1-1.dsc

I would be glad if someone uploaded this package for me.

Kind regards
 TUDURI Benoît


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