Re: Starting an application on login
Hi Eric
On 04/06/14 22:17, Eric L. wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 4 June 2014 07:24:27 CEST, Cameron Norman wrote:
>> I think users installing this piece of software will expect it to be
>> started at boot, and we should do just that.
>
> Where I do not agree with your conclusion is that _users_ do not install
> software, _admins_ (aka root) do. If one user requests the software, the
> admin installs it and nine other users complain that this software is now
> starting when they login, which means the admin has to explain how to _not_
> start it, I'm not sure this is the right thing to do.
> On the other hand, if one user requests the software, the admin installs it
> and explains to the requester how to activate it, that sounds more like a
> plan.
> And I'm conscious that many users are sole user and admin on their desktop,
> but that's not the unique use case (I'm personally user and admin on my PC
> but I have other users and I don't want them to be impacted just because I
> decide to install a package for my own usage).
This was the very situation I was imagining... so it would therefore
seem to lend itself to not be autostarted, but provide {documentation,
examples, README.debian} to provide further setup notes.
Regards,
Daniel
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Re: Starting an application on login
Hi, On 4 June 2014 07:24:27 CEST, Cameron Norman wrote: >I think users installing this piece of software will expect it to be >started at boot, and we should do just that. Where I do not agree with your conclusion is that _users_ do not install software, _admins_ (aka root) do. If one user requests the software, the admin installs it and nine other users complain that this software is now starting when they login, which means the admin has to explain how to _not_ start it, I'm not sure this is the right thing to do. On the other hand, if one user requests the software, the admin installs it and explains to the requester how to activate it, that sounds more like a plan. And I'm conscious that many users are sole user and admin on their desktop, but that's not the unique use case (I'm personally user and admin on my PC but I have other users and I don't want them to be impacted just because I decide to install a package for my own usage). Eric > >Regards, >-- >Cameron -- I'm on debian-java, java maintainers, vdr maintainers and debian-mentors; no need to CC me on these lists. Thanks! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/128815c6-966b-4a73-b514-f8f319ace...@email.android.com
Re: Starting an application on login
On Wed, Jun 04, 2014 at 11:07:25AM +0100, Daniel Lintott wrote: > currently BuildNotify needs to be > started/running to access the configuration GUI. What about this: make the menu entry call a script that: * checks if the BuildNotify daemon is running * if not, starts it (as the user) * then starts the GUI -- Gnome 3, Windows 8, Slashdot Beta, now Firefox Ribbon^WAustralis. WTF is going on with replacing usable interfaces with tabletized ones? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140604204349.ga13...@angband.pl
Re: Starting an application on login
On 04/06/14 11:40, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: > On 06/04/2014 12:07, Daniel Lintott wrote: >> On 04/06/14 09:53, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: >>> BuildNotify lets you "monitor multiple continuous integration servers >>> with customizable build notifications for all projects". >>> >>> I would assume it will only do useful work after configuration. If that >>> is the case, I think setting up the autostart bits should be done by >>> BuildNotify when a user has entered something useful into the configuration. >> >> That is mostly correct... currently BuildNotify needs to be >> started/running to access the configuration GUI. > > Well, then a user has to start it once manually. Subsequent starts will > happen automatically. Okay. >> I have found that this is then saved to a file in plain text, which >> would mean I could create a debconf scenario to perform the initial >> configuration and add the appropriate autostart scripts. > > There is no per-user configuration done at package installation time. So > I don't see where you plan to use debconf. Or does BuildNotify use a > global configuration? > > Just let BuildNotify add itself to the per-user autostart once a user > has configured it. No need for debconf or anything special in the packaging. This is something I presume that will need to be handled upstream as currently it doesn't provide a simple autostart option. Regards Daniel signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Starting an application on login
On 06/04/2014 12:07, Daniel Lintott wrote: > On 04/06/14 09:53, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: >> BuildNotify lets you "monitor multiple continuous integration servers >> with customizable build notifications for all projects". >> >> I would assume it will only do useful work after configuration. If that >> is the case, I think setting up the autostart bits should be done by >> BuildNotify when a user has entered something useful into the configuration. > > That is mostly correct... currently BuildNotify needs to be > started/running to access the configuration GUI. Well, then a user has to start it once manually. Subsequent starts will happen automatically. > I have found that this is then saved to a file in plain text, which > would mean I could create a debconf scenario to perform the initial > configuration and add the appropriate autostart scripts. There is no per-user configuration done at package installation time. So I don't see where you plan to use debconf. Or does BuildNotify use a global configuration? Just let BuildNotify add itself to the per-user autostart once a user has configured it. No need for debconf or anything special in the packaging. Ansgar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/538ef79d.6000...@debian.org
Re: Starting an application on login
On 04/06/14 09:53, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: > On 06/04/2014 07:24, Cameron Norman wrote: >> El Tue, 3 de Jun 2014 a las 9:03 PM, Eric Lavarde escribió: >>> Hi Daniel, On 3 June 2014 20:54:58 CEST, Daniel Lintott >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Mentors! I'm currently packaging a notification application, >>> BuildNotify [1]. It only makes sense to start the application when >>> the user logs in, which can be done using the >>> $(HOME)/.config/autostart directory or adding an entry using the >>> Startup Applications GUI. >From the packaging perspective, is this >>> something we should do when the package is installed... or should >>> it be left to the user to configure how they start it? >>> >> XDG autostart provides for both of these scenarios. You can (and should) >> install the autostart entry in /etc/xdg/autostart/ for system wide >> starting of the tray icon. Individual users can disable the entry by >> making one with the same name in ~/.config/autostart/ with a single >> line, "Hidden=true", as the contents. >> >> I think users installing this piece of software will expect it to be >> started at boot, and we should do just that. > > BuildNotify lets you "monitor multiple continuous integration servers > with customizable build notifications for all projects". > > I would assume it will only do useful work after configuration. If that > is the case, I think setting up the autostart bits should be done by > BuildNotify when a user has entered something useful into the configuration. That is mostly correct... currently BuildNotify needs to be started/running to access the configuration GUI. I have found that this is then saved to a file in plain text, which would mean I could create a debconf scenario to perform the initial configuration and add the appropriate autostart scripts. Regards, Daniel signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Starting an application on login
On 04/06/14 06:24, Cameron Norman wrote: > El Tue, 3 de Jun 2014 a las 9:03 PM, Eric Lavarde escribió: >> Hi Daniel, On 3 June 2014 20:54:58 CEST, Daniel Lintott >> wrote: >> >> Hi Mentors! I'm currently packaging a notification application, >> BuildNotify [1]. It only makes sense to start the application when >> the user logs in, which can be done using the >> $(HOME)/.config/autostart directory or adding an entry using the >> Startup Applications GUI. >From the packaging perspective, is this >> something we should do when the package is installed... or should >> it be left to the user to configure how they start it? >> >> The thing is that a Linux system is potentially multi user, with users >> not interested in the application and others added after package >> installation, so the answer can only be that the users must configure >> it themselves. > > XDG autostart provides for both of these scenarios. You can (and should) > install the autostart entry in /etc/xdg/autostart/ for system wide > starting of the tray icon. Individual users can disable the entry by > making one with the same name in ~/.config/autostart/ with a single > line, "Hidden=true", as the contents. > > I think users installing this piece of software will expect it to be > started at boot, and we should do just that. Ack, I'm currently considering some sort of debconf scenario, which would give the option for a user to install but not autostart Regards, Daniel signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Starting an application on login
On 04/06/14 04:55, Paul Wise wrote: > On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 2:54 AM, Daniel Lintott wrote: > >> It only makes sense to start the application when the user logs in, >> which can be done using the $(HOME)/.config/autostart directory or >> adding an entry using the Startup Applications GUI. > > There are additional dirs that the package can install into: > > http://standards.freedesktop.org/autostart-spec/autostart-spec-latest.html Thankyou for the link... I had found the directories but that gives me the information on how to use them >> From the packaging perspective, is this something we should do when the >> package is installed... or should it be left to the user to configure >> how they start it? > > In general, things in Debian should work when they are installed so I > would say autostart it. That was certainly my initial feeling Regards, Daniel signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Starting an application on login
On 06/04/2014 07:24, Cameron Norman wrote: > El Tue, 3 de Jun 2014 a las 9:03 PM, Eric Lavarde escribió: >> Hi Daniel, On 3 June 2014 20:54:58 CEST, Daniel Lintott >> wrote: >> >> Hi Mentors! I'm currently packaging a notification application, >> BuildNotify [1]. It only makes sense to start the application when >> the user logs in, which can be done using the >> $(HOME)/.config/autostart directory or adding an entry using the >> Startup Applications GUI. >From the packaging perspective, is this >> something we should do when the package is installed... or should >> it be left to the user to configure how they start it? >> > XDG autostart provides for both of these scenarios. You can (and should) > install the autostart entry in /etc/xdg/autostart/ for system wide > starting of the tray icon. Individual users can disable the entry by > making one with the same name in ~/.config/autostart/ with a single > line, "Hidden=true", as the contents. > > I think users installing this piece of software will expect it to be > started at boot, and we should do just that. BuildNotify lets you "monitor multiple continuous integration servers with customizable build notifications for all projects". I would assume it will only do useful work after configuration. If that is the case, I think setting up the autostart bits should be done by BuildNotify when a user has entered something useful into the configuration. Ansgar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/538ede8d.1040...@debian.org
Re: Starting an application on login
El Tue, 3 de Jun 2014 a las 9:03 PM, Eric Lavarde escribió: Hi Daniel, On 3 June 2014 20:54:58 CEST, Daniel Lintott wrote: Hi Mentors! I'm currently packaging a notification application, BuildNotify [1]. It only makes sense to start the application when the user logs in, which can be done using the $(HOME)/.config/autostart directory or adding an entry using the Startup Applications GUI. From the packaging perspective, is this something we should do when the package is installed... or should it be left to the user to configure how they start it? The thing is that a Linux system is potentially multi user, with users not interested in the application and others added after package installation, so the answer can only be that the users must configure it themselves. XDG autostart provides for both of these scenarios. You can (and should) install the autostart entry in /etc/xdg/autostart/ for system wide starting of the tray icon. Individual users can disable the entry by making one with the same name in ~/.config/autostart/ with a single line, "Hidden=true", as the contents. I think users installing this piece of software will expect it to be started at boot, and we should do just that. Regards, -- Cameron
Re: Starting an application on login
Hi Daniel, On 3 June 2014 20:54:58 CEST, Daniel Lintott wrote: >Hi Mentors! > >I'm currently packaging a notification application, BuildNotify [1]. > >It only makes sense to start the application when the user logs in, >which can be done using the $(HOME)/.config/autostart directory or >adding an entry using the Startup Applications GUI. > >From the packaging perspective, is this something we should do when the >package is installed... or should it be left to the user to configure >how they start it? The thing is that a Linux system is potentially multi user, with users not interested in the application and others added after package installation, so the answer can only be that the users must configure it themselves. > >If it's left to the user to configure how to start it, what is the best >way of informing the user what they need to do? I'd say README.Debian file. Eric > >[1] http://bugs.debian.org/750457 > >Regards, > >Daniel Lintott -- Sent from my tablet. Please excuse my brevity. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/35e818b9-9deb-4d8a-880c-55d1c5356...@email.android.com
Re: Starting an application on login
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 2:54 AM, Daniel Lintott wrote: > It only makes sense to start the application when the user logs in, > which can be done using the $(HOME)/.config/autostart directory or > adding an entry using the Startup Applications GUI. There are additional dirs that the package can install into: http://standards.freedesktop.org/autostart-spec/autostart-spec-latest.html > From the packaging perspective, is this something we should do when the > package is installed... or should it be left to the user to configure > how they start it? In general, things in Debian should work when they are installed so I would say autostart it. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caktje6glqpbkacq9btuhs3ambqfjhkwibownyl23vkfjm8r...@mail.gmail.com
Starting an application on login
Hi Mentors! I'm currently packaging a notification application, BuildNotify [1]. It only makes sense to start the application when the user logs in, which can be done using the $(HOME)/.config/autostart directory or adding an entry using the Startup Applications GUI. From the packaging perspective, is this something we should do when the package is installed... or should it be left to the user to configure how they start it? If it's left to the user to configure how to start it, what is the best way of informing the user what they need to do? [1] http://bugs.debian.org/750457 Regards, Daniel Lintott signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
