Re: www.d.o: PowerPC installation pages need update
Frans == Frans Pop [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: FJP http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/inst/install I can try this next - I don't run a lot of old Mac (legacy) hardware or other PowerPC systems, but it should be easy to at least sync with the install manual (at least get the current architectures right!). Frans That would be great, but please keep in mind that the Frans PowerPC installation manual has not really been updated for Frans Sarge either... Hi Frans, On examining the install page I found that it is pretty much a duplication of the supported hardware chapter of the woody powerpc installation guide. So I can update it to match the information in the sarge manual quite easily (and the sarge manual has been updated for newer hardware) as a first step. Could some one tell me why this duplication exists? Why can't the install page simply be a link to installation manual chapter found at http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/powerpc/ch02s01.html.en ? Cheers! Shyamal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 64bit status report : biarch toolchain and ppc64 debian kernel.
On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 11:21:39AM -0400, Michel D?nzer wrote: On Fri, 2005-08-19 at 10:02 +0200, Sven Luther wrote: But yes, a. is a major undertaking, and i was hoping of some automated method for generating the 64 bit stuff, maybe even in the same package. Needs some experimenting though. Why not just deal with this in an on-demand manner? I.e. users or maintainers of packages that actually need a 64 bit build request one for the package and/or its dependencies. Yep, but there are two problems : This is still more work than an automated setup, even if you automatize this on demand, and often folk will find out what libraries are needed after the release :) I was thinking of a system, where the -m64 packages are built and put in the same package as the -m32 ones, which would minimize size duplication, but i am not sure about the mechanism. What we really need is a sample package to start biarchizing, and then learn from the effort. Any suggestion about a good candidate ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Aug 19, 2005, at 9:35 AM, Sven Luther wrote: On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 05:00:44AM -0300, Rog?rio Brito wrote: On Aug 18 2005, Sven Luther wrote: I was forced to disable the floppy builds for now, since they failed to build, and the 2.6.12 kernels are 200K too big anyway for miboot floppies, we need to find out how to make them smaller, and solve the non-freeness of miboot for the etch release. Humm, this is indeed a problem. :-( The non-freeness of miboot is a secondary problem in face of not having a way to install the operating system on the box. :-( The kernel don't fit anyway, and you can always use the sarge miboot floppies, or older daily builds and then upgrade, or use bootx with the normal installation, or even boot the .cofg kernel from OF directly. Hmmm... Would it be possible to build a boot floppy using a fixed-config stripped-down version of (say) the 2.4 kernel, with just enough features configured to get the real (e.g. 2.6.xxx) kernel off one of: CD, network, hard-disk, whatever media. It asks the user where the real kernel is, then retrieves it, loads it, and passes control to it. As proof of concept, it could use the non-free miboot until a free version becomes available. NewWorld Macs can boot off of CDs, so these boot floppies are only necessary for OldWorld PowerMacs, which, being out of production, have a fixed unchanging set of devices. So the initial boot kernel can be built with a fixed minimal unchanging configuration. Once a working config is constructed, there will never be any need to update it. What am I missing? Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 03:27:36AM -0400, Rick Thomas wrote: On Aug 19, 2005, at 9:35 AM, Sven Luther wrote: On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 05:00:44AM -0300, Rog?rio Brito wrote: On Aug 18 2005, Sven Luther wrote: I was forced to disable the floppy builds for now, since they failed to build, and the 2.6.12 kernels are 200K too big anyway for miboot floppies, we need to find out how to make them smaller, and solve the non-freeness of miboot for the etch release. Humm, this is indeed a problem. :-( The non-freeness of miboot is a secondary problem in face of not having a way to install the operating system on the box. :-( The kernel don't fit anyway, and you can always use the sarge miboot floppies, or older daily builds and then upgrade, or use bootx with the normal installation, or even boot the .cofg kernel from OF directly. Hmmm... Would it be possible to build a boot floppy using a fixed-config stripped-down version of (say) the 2.4 kernel, with just enough No, there will be no more 2.4 powerpc kernel in etch, people needing it absolutely will be able to use the sarge installer and upgrade for now. The plan is that in the year or so upto the etch release, we will trim down the 2.6 kernel to miboot-size, free miboot or find a better solution, and fix the miboot+2.6 worked once in oldenbourg 2004 and never since problem. Removing the legacy stuff will only encourage us to work on the real fix :) features configured to get the real (e.g. 2.6.xxx) kernel off one of: CD, network, hard-disk, whatever media. It asks the user where the real kernel is, then retrieves it, loads it, and passes control to it. As proof of concept, it could use the non-free miboot until a free version becomes available. Well, the sarge 2.4 miboot floppies already installs a 2.6 kernel (or should), and if what you are hinting at is on-the-fly takeover of kernels, this is not possible (yet :). NewWorld Macs can boot off of CDs, so these boot floppies are only necessary for OldWorld PowerMacs, which, being out of production, have a fixed unchanging set of devices. So the initial boot kernel can be built with a fixed minimal unchanging configuration. Once a working config is constructed, there will never be any need to update it. Well, we already build most stuff as modules, so we would just need the oldworld floppy driver builtin to load the initrd, and that is it. A good candidate for modularisation is the apple ide driver, which cannot be modularized right now, and a couple of other stuff, feel free to experiment with it. Now, there is also talk of a quikc-that-supports-floppies, so it would solve the miboot-is-non-free problem, and maybe even be able to load the initrd itself, so we would be able to modularize the floppy driver even. Or maybe even a quik-that-supports-cdrom would be even cooler :) What am I missing? I guess we just need someone to do the work, as usual, i have not the time right now, nor in the forseable future, neither has h0lger, so we need fresh blood with interest to work on the etch oldworld boot-floppies. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Aug 19, 2005, Sven Luther wrote On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 03:27:36AM -0400, Rick Thomas wrote: . Hmmm... Would it be possible to build a boot floppy using a fixed-config stripped-down version of (say) the 2.4 kernel, with just enough No, there will be no more 2.4 powerpc kernel in etch, people needing it absolutely will be able to use the sarge installer and upgrade for now. The plan is that in the year or so upto the etch release, we will trim down the 2.6 kernel to miboot-size, free miboot or find a better solution, and fix the miboot+2.6 worked once in oldenbourg 2004 and never since problem. Removing the legacy stuff will only encourage us to work on the real fix :) features configured to get the real (e.g. 2.6.xxx) kernel off one of: CD, network, hard-disk, whatever media. It asks the user where the real kernel is, then retrieves it, loads it, and passes control to it. As proof of concept, it could use the non-free miboot until a free version becomes available. Well, the sarge 2.4 miboot floppies already installs a 2.6 kernel (or should), and if what you are hinting at is on-the-fly takeover of kernels, this is not possible (yet :). NewWorld Macs can boot off of CDs, so these boot floppies are only necessary for OldWorld PowerMacs, which, being out of production, have a fixed unchanging set of devices. So the initial boot kernel can be built with a fixed minimal unchanging configuration. Once a working config is constructed, there will never be any need to update it. Well, we already build most stuff as modules, so we would just need the oldworld floppy driver builtin to load the initrd, and that is it. A good candidate for modularisation is the apple ide driver, which cannot be modularized right now, and a couple of other stuff, feel free to experiment with it. Now, there is also talk of a quikc-that-supports-floppies, so it would solve the miboot-is-non-free problem, and maybe even be able to load the initrd itself, so we would be able to modularize the floppy driver even. Or maybe even a quik-that-supports-cdrom would be even cooler :) What am I missing? I guess we just need someone to do the work, as usual, i have not the time right now, nor in the forseable future, neither has h0lger, so we need fresh blood with interest to work on the etch oldworld boot-floppies. Hi Folks, One thing to keep in mind is that the swim3 driver in the Old World Pmacs hasn't been properly updated for the 2.6 series of kernels. Last I checked, I think the driver now compiles, but I can't remember if it even works. I'll take a look soon. A while back, I'd started looking at this driver with the purpose of getting it working, and learning about kernel driver programming. I had to drop it because of time constraints, etc ... But I think at the end of August, I should be able to spend some time on this again (i.e. getting the floppy driver working properly for 2.6)... If I can pull it off, I can lend a hand with boot floppies. I'm very attached to my 8500, and would like to keep it (fully) in service for as long as possible :) I had the driver somewhat cleaned up and working by replacing the old interrupt calling routines with the updated versions. but my changes were not SMP safe, and my attempts to put in SMP-safe interrupt calling primitives locked up the machine when I tested the driver. I need to go back and figure out how the driver works, and try to do the locking cleanly and properly. cheers vinai -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Aug 20, 2005, at 4:14 AM, Sven Luther wrote: Well, the sarge 2.4 miboot floppies already installs a 2.6 kernel (or should), and if what you are hinting at is on-the-fly takeover of kernels, this is not possible (yet :). That's exactly what I was proposing (on-the-fly takeover of kernels). I didn't realize it was not possible (yet :). Since miboot does essentially that, it can't be hard. Oh well... *I* thought it was a good idea. Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Aug 20, 2005, at 4:14 AM, Sven Luther wrote: The plan is that in the year or so upto the etch release, we will trim down the 2.6 kernel to miboot-size, free miboot or find a better solution, and fix the miboot+2.6 worked once in oldenbourg 2004 and never since problem. Removing the legacy stuff will only encourage us to work on the real fix :) Good luck on that. Keep in mind that the *next* kernel will be even bigger. Sooner or later, even the fully modularized minimum configuration isn't going fit on a single floppy. If you plan to rewrite miboot in the next 12 months, maybe that would be a good time to think about an architecture that eliminates the need for having the latest kernel on the floppy. Perhaps the first-stage boot-loader loads a second-stage boot-loader from the floppy in the form of a sub-miniature OS -- It really just needs to be capable of communicating with the console. Then use the console to ask the user where to get the full kernel-plus-modules from. The sub-min OS will need to have available driver-modules for CD/network/zip-disk/hard-disk/thumb-drive/tape/anything-you-can- imaging-loading-a-kernel-from, but those driver-modules don't have to be on the original boot floppy. Some kind of embedded-Linux would seem to be a good starting place. I'm sad to say that I don't have the time to help with this. I'm on the cusp myself. As a working sysadmin, I've just about decided that the OldWorld architecture is not worth supporting any more. Over time I'm planning to replace all my production OldWorld machines either with more modern (NewWorld) G3 and G4 desksides, retreaded as servers, or with Mac minis in applications that don't require the expandability of a PCI slot. I've enjoyed working with you on sarge, and I'd like to continue to help out where I can make a contribution. I'll probably hang onto a couple of OldWorld machines so I can help out with testing the etch stuff, but I don't plan on using it (etch on OldWorld) in production. I'll be fully converted to NewWorld before etch is ready. Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 03:52:13PM -0400, Rick Thomas wrote: On Aug 20, 2005, at 4:14 AM, Sven Luther wrote: Well, the sarge 2.4 miboot floppies already installs a 2.6 kernel (or should), and if what you are hinting at is on-the-fly takeover of kernels, this is not possible (yet :). That's exactly what I was proposing (on-the-fly takeover of kernels). I didn't realize it was not possible (yet :). Since miboot does essentially that, it can't be hard. Nope, miboot loads the kernel. First it is miboot running and then it launches the kernel, it is not two different kernels. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Aug 20, 2005, at 11:34 AM, vinai wrote: One thing to keep in mind is that the swim3 driver in the Old World Pmacs hasn't been properly updated for the 2.6 series of kernels. Last I checked, I think the driver now compiles, but I can't remember if it even works. I'll take a look soon. A while back, I'd started looking at this driver with the purpose of getting it working, and learning about kernel driver programming. I had to drop it because of time constraints, etc ... But I think at the end of August, I should be able to spend some time on this again (i.e. getting the floppy driver working properly for 2.6)... If I can pull it off, I can lend a hand with boot floppies. I'm very attached to my 8500, and would like to keep it (fully) in service for as long as possible :) I had the driver somewhat cleaned up and working by replacing the old interrupt calling routines with the updated versions. but my changes were not SMP safe, and my attempts to put in SMP-safe interrupt calling primitives locked up the machine when I tested the driver. I need to go back and figure out how the driver works, and try to do the locking cleanly and properly. Does it help to remember that SMP-safe is irrelevant to OldWorld Pmacs, since there are none-such? Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
