Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 08:47:16PM -0300, Rogério Brito wrote: > On Aug 20 2005, Rick Thomas wrote: > > Keep in mind that the *next* kernel will be even bigger. Sooner or > > later, even the fully modularized minimum configuration isn't going > > fit on a single floppy. > > There is current discussion on the lkml discussing which kernels one > should use with small systems (like old 486s and such) and the consensus > seems to be that one should use either a 2.6 kernel (perhaps using some > of the linux-tiny patches) or use a really ancient kernel. > > I would say that if more of the linux-tiny patches were incorporated in > the mainline kernel, then it would be a really nice addition. A bit of reality check here, we have around 1.3MB space on the miboot floppies, and current compressed miboot floppies arer 1.6MB or so, so we just need to unbloat it further 200/300kb (compressed though), which should be possible by modularizing lot of stuff, among those the pmac-ide is a good candidate. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Aug 21, 2005, at 6:21 PM, Rogério Brito wrote: On Aug 20 2005, Rick Thomas wrote: NewWorld Macs can boot off of CDs, so these boot floppies are only necessary for OldWorld PowerMacs, which, being out of production, have a fixed unchanging set of devices. That is false, as you can obviously upgrade your box with other devices and even the way of booting (e.g., by using a Tempo Trio card, which supports using IDE instead of the SCSI commonly found in OldWorld macs). You are, of course, correct in the larger context. But this was in the context of installation boot floppies, not general-purpose kernels. For a boot floppy kernel (or, if you prefer, "second stage boot loader") all you need is the ability to talk to the console (serial and/or video) and keyboard, and read a floppy disk to get a driver module for the device you want to extract the installation kernel and initial ramdisk from. This make things somewhat easier. The APIs for the serial console, on-board video-frame-buffer, and floppy disk drive are unlikely to change given that Apple is not developing this kind of machine anymore. Of course, someone will need to write the driver modules for all the new hardware that can be hung off a PCI bus, but that's a different problem. Also, it's not as big a problem as writing a general-purpose driver for a new device. All the loadable driver module has to be able to do is read the kernel and initial ramdisk. It's the new kernel that gets stuck with all the heavy lifting or running the installation process. Of course, as Sven pointed out, you also need to have code to switch out one kernel and switch in another, which doesn't exist at this point in time. In any case, Sven didn't like the idea and I haven't got the time or expertise to do it myself, so it's not going to happen. There is current discussion on the lkml discussing which kernels one should use with small systems (like old 486s and such) and the consensus seems to be that one should use either a 2.6 kernel (perhaps using some of the linux-tiny patches) or use a really ancient kernel. I would say that if more of the linux-tiny patches were incorporated in the mainline kernel, then it would be a really nice addition. I'm not aware of "linux-tiny". Where can I learn more about it? Enjoy! Rick
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Aug 20 2005, Rick Thomas wrote: > Keep in mind that the *next* kernel will be even bigger. Sooner or > later, even the fully modularized minimum configuration isn't going > fit on a single floppy. There is current discussion on the lkml discussing which kernels one should use with small systems (like old 486s and such) and the consensus seems to be that one should use either a 2.6 kernel (perhaps using some of the linux-tiny patches) or use a really ancient kernel. I would say that if more of the linux-tiny patches were incorporated in the mainline kernel, then it would be a really nice addition. Regards, -- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
Hi there, vinai. On Aug 20 2005, vinai wrote: > One thing to keep in mind is that the swim3 driver in the Old World > Pmacs hasn't been properly updated for the 2.6 series of kernels. Last > I checked, I think the driver now compiles, but I can't remember if it > even works. I'll take a look soon. It indeed has some problems. If I use mtools, then any further access to the drive is ignored. I don't remember right now what message shows up in the dmesg logs, though. :-( Cheers, -- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: On the use of DVD recordable media
On Aug 19 2005, Brendon Lloyd Higgins wrote: > Rogério Brito wrote (Thursday 18 August 2005 5:14 pm): > > Which portable do you have? > > Portable? I don't have any portable. You might've misunderstood me. Oops. Yes, perhaps I have misunderstood you. I was refering myself to the fact that not all DVDs that I am able to write are readable by all DVD drives I have access to, including the DVD reader on my iBook (Late 2001 model). I'm concerned with this because I may be moving in the near future and I would like to backup my important data and carry with me just the notebook and some DVDs, but, of course, I would like to use a format that works with the drives that I need. I am curious to know if the current Apple laptops (or any other brands) can cope with DVD+R/W media and DVD-RW media. So far, I have only successfully used DVD-R with my iBook. My ASUS DVD-ROM E608 drive suffers the same problems as the iBook's drive. In other words, I can only read my data with my burner, if I use anything else than DVD-R (or CDs, but I am trying to get CDs out of the game here). So, any feedback regarding if current portables (say, the current iBooks) can read the variety of DVD media used today would be quite welcome. Thanks for any comments, Rogério Brito. -- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PATCH} Re: www.d.o: PowerPC installation pages need update
"FJP" == Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: FJP> http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/inst/install >> I can try this next - I don't run a lot of old Mac (legacy) >> hardware or other PowerPC systems, but it should be easy to at >> least sync with the install manual (at least get the current >> architectures right!). FJP> That would be great, but please keep in mind that the PowerPC FJP> installation manual has not really been updated for Sarge FJP> either... Hi Frans, The patch below updates the powerpc install page to describe the status as in Sarge (i.e. it reflects the installation manual). Nothing controversial here (at least AFAIK ;-) The only curious thing is that the Sarge manual explicitly drops the IBM RS/6000 p630 as a supported machine. I did the same on the page, perhaps some one on debian-powerpc can correct this if it is still supported. Best regards, Shyamal Index: install.wml === RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/ports/powerpc/inst/install.wml,v retrieving revision 1.18 diff -u -r1.18 install.wml --- install.wml 29 May 2003 02:29:44 - 1.18 +++ install.wml 21 Aug 2005 23:45:47 - @@ -17,7 +17,47 @@ PMac (Power-Macintosh), Apus, CHRP and PReP machines. Ports to other powerpc architectures, such as the Be-Box and MBX architecture, are underway but not yet supported by Debian. We may -have a 64bit port (Power3) in the future. +have a 64bit port in the future. + + +There are also four flavours of the powerpc kernel in Debian. These +are based on the specific CPU type in use (and should not be confused +with the architecture flavours discussed above): + + + +powerpc + + +Most systems use this kernel flavour, which supports the PowerPC 601, +603, 604, 740, 750, and 7400 processors. All Apple Power Macintosh +systems up to and including the G4 use processors supported by this +kernel. + +power3 + + +The POWER3 processor is used in older IBM 64-bit server systems: known +models include the IntelliStation POWER Model 265, the pSeries 610 and +640, and the RS/6000 7044-170, 7044-260, and 7044-270. + +power4 + + + +The POWER4 processor is used in more recent IBM 64-bit server systems: +known models include the pSeries 615, 630, 650, 655, 670, and 690. +The Apple G5 is also based on the POWER4 architecture, and uses this +kernel flavour. + +apus + + +This kernel flavour supports the Amiga Power-UP System. + + + + Apple (and briefly a few other manufacturers - Power Computing, for example) makes a series of Macintosh computers based on the PowerPC @@ -35,9 +75,9 @@ OldWorld machines. The beige colored G3 systems are also OldWorld. The so called NewWorld PowerMacs are any PowerMacs in translucent -colored plastic cases. The NewWorld PowerMacs are also known for using -the `ROM in RAM' system for MacOS, and were manufactured from mid-1998 -onwards. +colored plastic cases, all iMacs, iBooks, G4 and G5 systems. The +NewWorld PowerMacs are also known for using the `ROM in RAM' system +for MacOS, and were manufactured from mid-1998 onwards. Here is a list of powerpc machines which should work with Debian. @@ -54,15 +94,21 @@ iMac Bondi Blue, 5 Flavors, Slot Loading powermac-NewWorld iMac Summer 2000, Early 2001 powermac-NewWorld +iMac G5 powermac-NewWorld iBook, iBook SE, iBook Dual USB powermac-NewWorld iBook2 powermac-NewWorld +iBook G4 powermac-NewWorld Power Macintosh Blue and White (B&W) G3 powermac-NewWorld Power Macintosh G4 PCI, AGP, Cube powermac-NewWorld Power Macintosh G4 Gigabit Ethernet powermac-NewWorld Power Macintosh G4 Digital Audio, Quicksilver powermac-NewWorld +Power Macintosh G5 powermac-NewWorld PowerBook G3 FireWire Pismo (2000) powermac-NewWorld PowerBook G3 Lombard (1999) powermac-NewWorld PowerBook G4 Titanium powermac-NewWorld +PowerBook G4 Aluminum powermac-NewWorld +Mac mini powermac-NewWorld +Xserve G5 powermac-NewWorld Performa 4400, 54xx, 5500 powermac-OldWorld @@ -125,7 +171,16 @@ 40P, 43P PReP Power 830/850/860 (6070, 6050) PReP 6015, 6030, 7025, 7043 PReP -p640, p630 (7028-6C4) PReP +p640 PReP +B50, 43-P150, 44P CHRP + + + + Genesi + + + +Pegasos I, Pegasos II CHRP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Aug 20 2005, Rick Thomas wrote: > NewWorld Macs can boot off of CDs, so these boot floppies are only > necessary for OldWorld PowerMacs, which, being out of production, > have a fixed unchanging set of devices. That is false, as you can obviously upgrade your box with other devices and even the way of booting (e.g., by using a Tempo Trio card, which supports using IDE instead of the SCSI commonly found in OldWorld macs). -- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Aug 19 2005, Sven Luther wrote: > On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 05:00:44AM -0300, Rog?rio Brito wrote: > > Humm, this is indeed a problem. :-( The non-freeness of miboot is > > a secondary problem in face of not having a way to install the > > operating system on the box. :-( > > The kernel don't fit anyway, That's not true. The method I currently use to boot my pmac is to compile a brand new kernel (right now, 2.6.13-rc6-mm1, the bleeding edge) and it fits into a floppy without any problems (and with about 100KB left). I don't even use a initial ramdisk, which would make things even easier, as far as we are talking about space on the floppy (since I could perfectly move things there, but I feel that it is too much trouble with my own machine). I just grabbed the woody hfs boot floppy and replaced the kernel with mine (and edited the parameters passed by the System file). Then, everything else worked. In fact, I now have learnt how to make my machine boot in OF with the use of the monitor and now I can see the quik prompt, but quik seems unable to boot with kernels that work the floppy disk method. > and you can always use the sarge miboot floppies, If I recall correctly, there were one of the release candidates of sarge that didn't have floppies working. I just grabbed the woody floppies and proceeded with its install and later upgrade to testing. I never looked back then. > or older daily builds and then upgrade, or use bootx with the normal > installation, or even boot the .cofg kernel from OF directly. Using bootx is out of question, due to space limitation of my hard drive (and I am not even mentioning the use of a non-free MacOS install). Didn't know that OF could boot .coff kernels directly, though. I will investigate that. Regards, -- Rogério Brito : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de Homepage on freshmeat: http://freshmeat.net/projects/algorithms/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Aug 21, 2005, at 10:22 AM, vinai wrote: On Sun, August 21, 2005 6:47, Derrik Pates wrote: On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 12:27:51AM -0400, Rick Thomas wrote: Does it help to remember that SMP-safe is irrelevant to OldWorld Pmacs, since there are none-such? Actually, that's not true - I have a 7500 with an aftermarket 604e/180 dual CPU card, and I'm sure there was at least one 9600 model that had dual processors from the factory, so MP-safety most certainly is an issue. Besides, he said he was testing it on an SMP box anyway - it'd be hard to get a SWIM3 floppy controller on a NewWorld, since the core chipsets in the NewWorlds don't have 'em. In addition to Apple's machines (like the 9500 180/MP like Rogerio mentioned) that came SMP-ready, and CPU upgrade cards, there were also clones at this time that were also SMP-capable. I remember a 4-way 604e non-Apple Power Mac. Since all of this arose from the same line of motherboard and chipsets, I would guess these machines also have SWIM3 controllers for the floppy drives. Well... You learn something new every day! Thanks for the correction. Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 09:22:28AM -0500, vinai wrote: > On Sun, August 21, 2005 6:47, Derrik Pates wrote: > > > On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 12:27:51AM -0400, Rick Thomas wrote: > >> Does it help to remember that SMP-safe is irrelevant to OldWorld > >> Pmacs, since there are none-such? > > > > Actually, that's not true - I have a 7500 with an aftermarket > > 604e/180 dual CPU card, and I'm sure there was at least one 9600 > > model that had dual processors from the factory, so MP-safety most > > certainly is an issue. Besides, he said he was testing it on an SMP > > box anyway - it'd be hard to get a SWIM3 floppy controller on a > > NewWorld, since the core chipsets in the NewWorlds don't have 'em. > > In addition to Apple's machines (like the 9500 180/MP like Rogerio > mentioned) that came SMP-ready, and CPU upgrade cards, there were > also clones at this time that were also SMP-capable. I remember a > 4-way 604e non-Apple Power Mac. Since all of this arose from the > same line of motherboard and chipsets, I would guess these machines > also have SWIM3 controllers for the floppy drives. > > But just to clarify: I presently do NOT have SMP on my 8500. I have > a single G3 CPU upgrade card. I've compiled a kernel with SMP set, > and tried to use SMP-compatible locking primitives in my 1st attempt > to make the SWIM3 driver SMP safe. But I did not use these properly. > > My attempt here is to try to do several things in one job: get my 8500 > and all its hardware working, learning about device driver programming, > and making code SMP-safe. > > If desireable, I can send the patch to the current 2.6.12 line to get > the driver to compile cleanly. All I did was to replace the older > interrupt calling routines with their updated equivalent. Yes, please do, as a bug report to linux-2.6 package in sid. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Sun, August 21, 2005 6:47, Derrik Pates wrote: > On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 12:27:51AM -0400, Rick Thomas wrote: >> Does it help to remember that SMP-safe is irrelevant to OldWorld >> Pmacs, since there are none-such? > > Actually, that's not true - I have a 7500 with an aftermarket > 604e/180 dual CPU card, and I'm sure there was at least one 9600 > model that had dual processors from the factory, so MP-safety most > certainly is an issue. Besides, he said he was testing it on an SMP > box anyway - it'd be hard to get a SWIM3 floppy controller on a > NewWorld, since the core chipsets in the NewWorlds don't have 'em. In addition to Apple's machines (like the 9500 180/MP like Rogerio mentioned) that came SMP-ready, and CPU upgrade cards, there were also clones at this time that were also SMP-capable. I remember a 4-way 604e non-Apple Power Mac. Since all of this arose from the same line of motherboard and chipsets, I would guess these machines also have SWIM3 controllers for the floppy drives. But just to clarify: I presently do NOT have SMP on my 8500. I have a single G3 CPU upgrade card. I've compiled a kernel with SMP set, and tried to use SMP-compatible locking primitives in my 1st attempt to make the SWIM3 driver SMP safe. But I did not use these properly. My attempt here is to try to do several things in one job: get my 8500 and all its hardware working, learning about device driver programming, and making code SMP-safe. If desireable, I can send the patch to the current 2.6.12 line to get the driver to compile cleanly. All I did was to replace the older interrupt calling routines with their updated equivalent. cheers vinai -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: powerpc d-i daily builds reactivated, use 2.6.12 kernels, including 64bit kernels, miboot floppies dropped for now.
On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 12:27:51AM -0400, Rick Thomas wrote: > Does it help to remember that SMP-safe is irrelevant to OldWorld Pmacs, > since there are none-such? Actually, that's not true - I have a 7500 with an aftermarket 604e/180 dual CPU card, and I'm sure there was at least one 9600 model that had dual processors from the factory, so MP-safety most certainly is an issue. Besides, he said he was testing it on an SMP box anyway - it'd be hard to get a SWIM3 floppy controller on a NewWorld, since the core chipsets in the NewWorlds don't have 'em. -- Derrik Pates [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Will Debian Sarge resize OS X-volume during install?
Hi Michel, Am Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:46:14 +0200, schrieb Guus013: > Hi Sven, > > >> ..so you have to use some mac-os-x tool and remove the journal.. > > Which tool did you use? If you have the Install CD/DVD Set or any other Installationmedia for Panther, Jaguar and earlier won't work, you have to boot your Mac from this Media bring up the Disk Utility and there you find a button which allows you to disable journaling. After resizing the partition and installing Sarge you boot your Mac from CD/DVD again and turn on Journaling. Which tool to use for resizing. I don't know. Last time I had to install my Mac I made two partitions one for videos and one for OS X etc. When I wanted to install Sarge I killed the Video partition, simply because I use an external hdd for this stuff now. There are Mac OS X aqua tools for repartitioning your Mac out there too. I know of Volume Works by SubRosaSoft, iPartion by Corilios and Volume Works by Prosoft Engineering. There may be more out there. Regards, Eric Hoch -- ## Ansprechpartner Anwenderunterstützung, users-Mailingliste, MacOSX ## de.OpenOffice.org - Office für MacOS X, Linux, Solaris & Windows ## Openoffice.org - ich steck mit drin!
