Re: GWorkspace doesn't work in Sarge
This is getting wildely offtopic for -powerpc, so please reply privately in order not to annoy the list subscribers. brian wrote: This is true, but is irrelevant to the OP's problem. You seem to have a much different perspective on this than i have. mine was that GnuStep needed and got a major overhaul this year, which is will allow a real desktop now to develop that is presently in a prototype stage with etoile' being the leading contender (the others simply not not showing much more than the old gworkspace/windowmaker results, or/and not getting adequate developer interest) Well, with every release of the main GNUstep libraries there are major changes, especially in the past two years. It is true that the Etoile project is closer to a desktop than the other efforts. This is not true. I'm not a co-maintainer for gwrokspace.app, that's why I suggested filing a bug. Most probably there will be people who can help or at least try to locate the issue. yes, i am sorry but it is. there is besides the issue of gnustep big change is that sarge will soon be old stable which with big change in etch again makes asking superhuman demands from a limited group of people. unless suddenly debian were to take a much more friendly stance on developing new developers and/or officially supporting backports -- i don't think though it has the resources to do either. But this suggests that stable is not supported -- I don't agree with you. The right place to obtain support is via the BTS or at least the pkg-gnustep mailing list. powerpc is just one of the arches where GNUstep runs. Basically there is a reason why people run stable so advising them to upgrade to testing does not seem to be a good idea. Last time I tried (that was about a year ago, I think) GNUstep in Sarge was in a pretty good shape. of course that is so. and i said before i kept a copy, at least a mixed sarge/testing. actually i do keep a copy of sarge and use it often enough to update it and test it. i sometimes think if you came from a windows background you may find a much lower level of quality adequate. however, mine was bsd, nextstep, and mac, and i just find MS/W standards to be completely unacceptable. I find the standards of any proprietary system unacceptable. We were using stable at work (including GNUstep) but migrated all workstations to testing 1 year before the release of Sarge. I will keep an Etch machine to support my packages and I believe that the other maintainers have at least one Sarge installation to support theirs. We would like to know about these problems, please. Window Maker is the preferred window manager for GNUstep both by upstream and the Debian maintainers. this is like saying that MS/windows is preffered for C++. it is not consistent, as windowmaker has nothing to do with gnustep, it is just a look (and not much more). According to GNUstep's homepage and the vast majority of upstream developers wmaker is the preferred window manager. Certainly it has nothing to do with GNUstep. IMHO WM/GW are not really fixable, in fact they are simply absolete. if there is some political force once again that is seeking to maintain the status quo, it is just going to create further problems. Well, if you use GWorkspace's desktop feature (and/or the tabbed shelf) I agree that it is not very consistent. There is no political force, but bear in mind that Etoile is not part of GNUstep and not the official desktop, at least according to the core (GNUstep) developers. i did say i have not been able to work with it lately, didn't I ?? you seem to have taken out my context. but i would not call it vaporware like the others, if you would look at a version from the last 3 months, it too has grown in a very major way and that is half the reason i have not been keeping up with it besides waiting for debian/etch gnustep to stabilize. For a pretty long time Etoile has been a bunch of screenshots -- these are not my words. Of course, we will introduce Etoile in Debian and will support it as soon as it is feasible. no, it is skinnable. you are confusing it with chameleon as it seems most people confuse windowmaker with gnustep. No, I am not confusing anything. For someone that has been using GNUstep for years, Etoile looks weird. Others might like it, of course. half of linux is either incomplete or doesn't work properly, Linux is just a kernel, I guess you mean GNU/Linux here. unless you go to one of the more commercial distros, and/or put yourself in the middle mainstream, where it seems to me you are missing the point (may as well use mac os X way before that, where you can get most of debian anyway and gnustep besides via fink) I've never used Muck OS and will never use it. I have a few OldWorld Macs and the only mission of their Muck OS is to boot GNU/Linux. If you consider Etoile the true GNUstep desktop, that is fine. I don't feel any
Re: GWorkspace doesn't work in Sarge
--- Yavor Doganov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: brian wrote: Please be aware that there have been big/major developments in GnuStep over the past year. more so in the underneath layers than in the applications suite. This is true, but is irrelevant to the OP's problem. You seem to have a much different perspective on this than i have. mine was that GnuStep needed and got a major overhaul this year, which is will allow a real desktop now to develop that is presently in a prototype stage with etoile' being the leading contender (the others simply not not showing much more than the old gworkspace/windowmaker results, or/and not getting adequate developer interest) so that makes it difficult for the developers to do much for you, as before that it was stalled for quite a while. This is not true. I'm not a co-maintainer for gwrokspace.app, that's why I suggested filing a bug. Most probably there will be people who can help or at least try to locate the issue. yes, i am sorry but it is. there is besides the issue of gnustep big change is that sarge will soon be old stable which with big change in etch again makes asking superhuman demands from a limited group of people. unless suddenly debian were to take a much more friendly stance on developing new developers and/or officially supporting backports -- i don't think though it has the resources to do either. the thing is you CAN upgrade to Xorg while still running the sarge 2.6.8 kernel, that is from testing; if you are willing to do so then you can update GnuStep to a recent version. Basically there is a reason why people run stable so advising them to upgrade to testing does not seem to be a good idea. Last time I tried (that was about a year ago, I think) GNUstep in Sarge was in a pretty good shape. of course that is so. and i said before i kept a copy, at least a mixed sarge/testing. actually i do keep a copy of sarge and use it often enough to update it and test it. i sometimes think if you came from a windows background you may find a much lower level of quality adequate. however, mine was bsd, nextstep, and mac, and i just find MS/W standards to be completely unacceptable. but i would say that windowmaker and gworkspace both have some problems We would like to know about these problems, please. Window Maker is the preferred window manager for GNUstep both by upstream and the Debian maintainers. this is like saying that MS/windows is preffered for C++. it is not consistent, as windowmaker has nothing to do with gnustep, it is just a look (and not much more). IMHO WM/GW are not really fixable, in fact they are simply absolete. if there is some political force once again that is seeking to maintain the status quo, it is just going to create further problems. while when i had time i was trying to build the new gnustep desktop package -- that is called etoile. it is not in debian but it looks like it could be better. i had tried fsviewer also and found both to not work really well. The source package etoile is in Debian, but it currently builds only camaelon.app and dictionaryreader.app. Etoile is very unstable and a bit of vapourware so we have decided to postpone the whole work after the release of Etch. yes, and no. it requires recent gnustep first, so that needs to be stable. you can't build it right otherwise. i did say i have not been able to work with it lately, didn't I ?? you seem to have taken out my context. but i would not call it vaporware like the others, if you would look at a version from the last 3 months, it too has grown in a very major way and that is half the reason i have not been keeping up with it besides waiting for debian/etch gnustep to stabilize. It's a pity that there are three efforts for a GNUstep desktop (Backbone, Etoile and GAP) and none of them is complete or at least working properly. Unfortunately, Etoile diverts very much from the original look feel. no, it is skinnable. you are confusing it with chameleon as it seems most people confuse windowmaker with gnustep. half of linux is either incomplete or doesn't work properly, unless you go to one of the more commercial distros, and/or put yourself in the middle mainstream, where it seems to me you are missing the point (may as well use mac os X way before that, where you can get most of debian anyway and gnustep besides via fink) brian p.s. i didn't really so much disagree with your original suggestions here as i wanted to offer them a few other choices. i assume people are going to make up their own minds and do their own homework, i can only make suggestion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail
Re: GWorkspace doesn't work in Sarge
brian wrote: Please be aware that there have been big/major developments in GnuStep over the past year. more so in the underneath layers than in the applications suite. This is true, but is irrelevant to the OP's problem. so that makes it difficult for the developers to do much for you, as before that it was stalled for quite a while. This is not true. I'm not a co-maintainer for gwrokspace.app, that's why I suggested filing a bug. Most probably there will be people who can help or at least try to locate the issue. the thing is you CAN upgrade to Xorg while still running the sarge 2.6.8 kernel, that is from testing; if you are willing to do so then you can update GnuStep to a recent version. Basically there is a reason why people run stable so advising them to upgrade to testing does not seem to be a good idea. Last time I tried (that was about a year ago, I think) GNUstep in Sarge was in a pretty good shape. but i would say that windowmaker and gworkspace both have some problems We would like to know about these problems, please. Window Maker is the preferred window manager for GNUstep both by upstream and the Debian maintainers. while when i had time i was trying to build the new gnustep desktop package -- that is called etoile. it is not in debian but it looks like it could be better. i had tried fsviewer also and found both to not work really well. The source package etoile is in Debian, but it currently builds only camaelon.app and dictionaryreader.app. Etoile is very unstable and a bit of vapourware so we have decided to postpone the whole work after the release of Etch. It's a pity that there are three efforts for a GNUstep desktop (Backbone, Etoile and GAP) and none of them is complete or at least working properly. Unfortunately, Etoile diverts very much from the original look feel. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GWorkspace doesn't work in Sarge
--- Jeffrey Rolland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, all! I have a Power Macintosh 7500/100 running Debian Sarge. I have recently switched from KDE to GNUStep/WindowMaker, and I am having a problem with GWorkspace. Please be aware that there have been big/major developments in GnuStep over the past year. more so in the underneath layers than in the applications suite. so that makes it difficult for the developers to do much for you, as before that it was stalled for quite a while. the thing is you CAN upgrade to Xorg while still running the sarge 2.6.8 kernel, that is from testing; if you are willing to do so then you can update GnuStep to a recent version. i did this a few days ago with my older powerbook from 1997, so i know its ok... but i would say that windowmaker and gworkspace both have some problems and i use openbox. for a little while when i had time i was trying to build the new gnustep desktop package -- that is called etoile. it is not in debian but it looks like it could be better. i had tried fsviewer also and found both to not work really well. also openbox window manager works with gnustep apps pretty well, better than windowmaker on my old machine. i tried blackbox too. i have problems sometimes with colorspace corruption so your results may differ. you may need to search a bit more carefully for all the gnustep support. check the gnustep web sites for more help !! good luck, brian p.s. hope i have time to get back to working with this stuff soon. too many hassles recently, sorry i can't offer more specific help just now. I used aptitude to install ^gnustep$ (without the quotes) and then remove kde-core. I have not installed wdm yet, so I am using xdm. When I go to launch GWorkspace, I get a sequence of 15 error messages. Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GWorkspace doesn't work in Sarge
Jeffrey Rolland wrote: I have a Power Macintosh 7500/100 running Debian Sarge. I have recently switched from KDE to GNUStep/WindowMaker, and I am having a problem with GWorkspace. [...] Can anyone help sort out why GWorkspace doesn't work? I would really appreciate any assistance you can provide. Most of the warnings are harmless, but I'm very surprised that it doesn't work. I don't have a Sarge machine with GNUstep installed to check this. Please ensure that GWorkspace is not running in the background, i.e. that it is not started when you start your X session. Also, try to start gdnc (GNUstep Distribution Notification Center) first -- see the manpage how to do that. (gdnc is shipped in the gnustep-base-common package which you should have installed because of the dependency chain). Finally, I'd suggest filing a bug in the BTS as it seems that the other GNUstep maintainers are not subscribed to -powerpc. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
