Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
Hi folks, I remember discussing keyboard issues a long time ago... On 13 Sep, this message from Michel Dänzer echoed through cyberspace: On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 18:06 +0200, Michael Schmitz wrote: Now there is one question left: what is the standard model? In the terminoology of xkb-data 0.8-12exp1, is this macintosh_old2 or macintosh? I would say the former, since these are the same keycodes as with PC keyboards, but I would be glad if someone could confirm. Oh, one more question: what is a good name for the alternative model? What about macintosh_swap? Ideally, the kernel should send up the same codes as a PC keyboard. It doesn't always do that - that's why I asked for someone to collect the ADB init messages. More precisely, we need those together with the xkb model that works right for a particular machine. Maybe the ISO keyboards all work with the swapped keys (in which case macintosh_iso would be a good name)? I'm afraid that'd be pointless, as the user only has a chance to see the term 'ISO' (in the kernel output) if the kernel correctly detects and handles the keyboard in the first place. I remember some kernel versions printing detected ISO keyboard, swapping keys So yes, I think I can confirm the key swapping happens betwen ANSI and ISO keyboards. Now, those types should match certain layouts, i.e. a specific layout should have one and only one well defined type, ANSI or ISO. So far so good, that would make the problem go away once all layouts are corrected. But as has been said, the kernel sometimes misdetects the keyboard type, for yet unknown reasons. It could as well be a problem of the PMU reporting the wrong type... Anyway, probably nothing automatic can be done about this. So yes, a user-configured option for XKB seems to be the best solution. Cheers Michel - Michel Lanners | Read Philosophy. Study Art. 23, Rue Paul Henkes|Ask Questions. Make Mistakes. L-1710 Luxembourg | email [EMAIL PROTECTED]| http://www.cpu.lu/~mlan| Learn Always.
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
Ideally, the kernel should send up the same codes as a PC keyboard. It doesn't always do that - that's why I asked for someone to collect the ADB init messages. More precisely, we need those together with the xkb model that works right for a particular machine. Maybe the ISO keyboards all work with the swapped keys (in which case macintosh_iso would be a good name)? I'm afraid that'd be pointless, as the user only has a chance to see the term 'ISO' (in the kernel output) if the kernel correctly detects and handles the keyboard in the first place. Right - but collecting reports from users where the keyboard is detected as ANSI but the key swap is required nonetheless would hopefully allow us to improve the kernel keyboard detection code. I know I'm overy optimistic WRT user feedback here. I'm not dead serious, even. Just suggesting a couple of data points to ask for if the next user complains. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
Now there is one question left: what is the standard model? In the terminoology of xkb-data 0.8-12exp1, is this macintosh_old2 or macintosh? I would say the former, since these are the same keycodes as with PC keyboards, but I would be glad if someone could confirm. Oh, one more question: what is a good name for the alternative model? What about macintosh_swap? Ideally, the kernel should send up the same codes as a PC keyboard. It doesn't always do that - that's why I asked for someone to collect the ADB init messages. More precisely, we need those together with the xkb model that works right for a particular machine. Maybe the ISO keyboards all work with the swapped keys (in which case macintosh_iso would be a good name)? Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 18:06 +0200, Michael Schmitz wrote: Now there is one question left: what is the standard model? In the terminoology of xkb-data 0.8-12exp1, is this macintosh_old2 or macintosh? I would say the former, since these are the same keycodes as with PC keyboards, but I would be glad if someone could confirm. Oh, one more question: what is a good name for the alternative model? What about macintosh_swap? Ideally, the kernel should send up the same codes as a PC keyboard. It doesn't always do that - that's why I asked for someone to collect the ADB init messages. More precisely, we need those together with the xkb model that works right for a particular machine. Maybe the ISO keyboards all work with the swapped keys (in which case macintosh_iso would be a good name)? I'm afraid that'd be pointless, as the user only has a chance to see the term 'ISO' (in the kernel output) if the kernel correctly detects and handles the keyboard in the first place. -- Earthling Michel Dänzer | http://tungstengraphics.com Libre software enthusiast | Debian, X and DRI developer
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
keyboards). The kernel should detect this and always generate the same PC-style keycodes, but fails to do so in some cases. I think the keyboard type can be deferred from dmesg|grep 'adb devices' but I forget how exactly. dmesg|grep -A 10 'adb devices' shows the whole set of kernel ADB detection messages In my case (5,5): adb devices: [2]: 2 c4 [3]: 3 1 [7]: 7 1f ADB keyboard at 2, handler 1 Detected ADB keyboard, type ISO, swapping keys. input: ADB keyboard as /class/input/input1 input: ADB Powerbook buttons as /class/input/input2 ADB mouse at 3, handler set to 4 (trackpad) input: ADB mouse as /class/input/input3 adb: finished probe task... The [] stuff is the ADB ID, the next two numbers are the response from the device upon inquiry - the first byte echos the device ID, the second one encodes the device default handler ID and capabilities IIRC. [7] is the button device. I suspect there's a number of devices that are not correctly recognized as ISO devices and don't get their keys swapped (type ANSI is reported in that case). Collecting the above imformation from these devices may aid in fixing the kernel driver. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
[... most interesting discussion of xkb workings snipped ...] In unstable, there are 2 models: macintosh and macintosh_old. The latter is for older kernels, and should probably be renamed into macintosh_adb for clarity reasons. Please pick another name - macintosh_old is strictly for ADB Macs that use a very old kernel (or a compatibility feature) to send keycodes in the ADB mapping. The very same ADB Macs now use PC style keycode mapping; that's a kernel side issue only! macintosh_old is clearly more appropriate than macintosh_adb. If you want to make this any clearer, use a name like macintosh_oldkernel or some abbreviation of this. Both the kernel version and the potential compatibility mapping can easily be detected at run time - check for presence of the file /proc/sys/dev/mac_hid/keyboard_sends_linux_keycodes If this contains 0, ADB keycodes are used. If the file is not present or 1, Linux keycodes (unless the kernel version is fairly ancient: 2.4.26 already had the keyboard_sends_linux_keycodes hack. 2.4.18 might not) To complete your data collection: on my german ADB ISO keyboard, and ^ are swapped unless macintosh_old2 is used, just as Helge reported. That's the adb devices: [2]: 2 c4 [3]: 3 1 [7]: 7 1f case as posted before. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 03:50:37PM +0200, Michael Schmitz wrote: [... most interesting discussion of xkb workings snipped ...] In unstable, there are 2 models: macintosh and macintosh_old. The latter is for older kernels, and should probably be renamed into macintosh_adb for clarity reasons. Please pick another name - macintosh_old is strictly for ADB Macs that use a very old kernel (or a compatibility feature) to send keycodes in the ADB mapping. The very same ADB Macs now use PC style keycode mapping; that's a kernel side issue only! macintosh_old is clearly more appropriate than macintosh_adb. If you want to make this any clearer, use a name like macintosh_oldkernel or some abbreviation of this. I do not understand why macintosh_adb is wrong, but hey, I know nothing about Macs, so I will put what you folks are telling me; let's keep macintosh_old. Both the kernel version and the potential compatibility mapping can easily be detected at run time - check for presence of the file /proc/sys/dev/mac_hid/keyboard_sends_linux_keycodes If this contains 0, ADB keycodes are used. If the file is not present or 1, Linux keycodes (unless the kernel version is fairly ancient: 2.4.26 already had the keyboard_sends_linux_keycodes hack. 2.4.18 might not) To complete your data collection: on my german ADB ISO keyboard, and ^ are swapped unless macintosh_old2 is used, just as Helge reported. That's the adb devices: [2]: 2 c4 [3]: 3 1 [7]: 7 1f case as posted before. Ok, we are pretty close to a solution. If I understand what has been said in this thread, with a recent kernal, all Mac keyboards should have a unique model name in xkb-data. Auto-detection does not always work, this is why an alternative model is needed to swap two keys. Hopefully kernel will be updated and auto-detection will work better in the future, so people may have to switch from this alternative model to the standard model. Now there is one question left: what is the standard model? In the terminoology of xkb-data 0.8-12exp1, is this macintosh_old2 or macintosh? I would say the former, since these are the same keycodes as with PC keyboards, but I would be glad if someone could confirm. Oh, one more question: what is a good name for the alternative model? What about macintosh_swap? Thanks. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 10:15:38PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 03:50:37PM +0200, Michael Schmitz wrote: Please pick another name - macintosh_old is strictly for ADB Macs that use a very old kernel (or a compatibility feature) to send keycodes in the ADB mapping. The very same ADB Macs now use PC style keycode mapping; that's a kernel side issue only! macintosh_old is clearly more appropriate than macintosh_adb. If you want to make this any clearer, use a name like macintosh_oldkernel or some abbreviation of this. I do not understand why macintosh_adb is wrong, but hey, I know nothing about Macs, so I will put what you folks are telling me; let's keep macintosh_old. The issue is not between ADB and USB keyboards, but between new and old kernels. If you go back enough, the ADB drivers used to pass through raw keycodes up to userspace. With the move to the unified input layer, the ADB keyboard driver translates the raw ADB codes to standard PC keycodes. The macintosh_old mapping is for people using ADB keyboards with a kernel old enough that it does not do translation. The same hardware with a newer kernel sends PC style keycodes and doesn't need macintosh_old. Now there is one question left: what is the standard model? In the terminoology of xkb-data 0.8-12exp1, is this macintosh_old2 or macintosh? I would say the former, since these are the same keycodes as with PC keyboards, but I would be glad if someone could confirm. Oh, one more question: what is a good name for the alternative model? What about macintosh_swap? Ideally, the kernel should send up the same codes as a PC keyboard. Brad Boyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 07:31:47PM +0200, Yannick Roehlly wrote: Good late summer evening, (well, in southern France at least) Bin Zhang wrote: Option XkbModel ibook With the ibook layout, it was working; but I prefer to use the macintosh layout so that the keypad enter behaves as KP_Enter. As Michel pointed at, the problem was that I've half read Denis mail (well, I missed a character). Using the macintosh_old2 layout works fine. My apologies... Does this mean that new Apple keyboards have the @ and the keys inverted? See Michel's posts, the kernel tries to adapt keycodes depending on the detected keyboard. It seems that your USB keyboard is not fully recognized, so you have to select the right one by hand. Maybe in the future, the kernel could get fixed, and you would then need to modify your XkbModel again. I try to find relevant names for those Mac XkbModels in order to not confuse users even more. PS: By the way Denis, just a thought. On MacOs X, the ISO_Level3_shift key is the alt key. With xkb, it's the right alt key, ? la PC AltGr. I don't know how good would be the idea to make the alt key ISO_Level3_shift and the apple key Alt_L(R). The advantage is for people switching from MacOS to GNU/Linux keep the same keyboard habits but the problem is in program where the Alt +... shortcuts becomes Apple +... shortcuts. see my previous posts, I do not want to have this discussion before we have a better understanding on what is broken and how users should choose their XkbModel. But do not worry, we seem to be pretty close now ;) Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 12:08:10PM +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote:
[...]
I'm not sure a model will cut it either. Here's my recollection of the
problem:
The hardware keycodes of these keys can be swapped, depending on layout
and maybe other factors (IIRC it's about ISO vs. other variants of ADB
keyboards). The kernel should detect this and always generate the same
PC-style keycodes, but fails to do so in some cases. I think the
keyboard type can be deferred from
dmesg|grep 'adb devices'
but I forget how exactly.
This indeed would explain why USB keyboards have swapped keycodes.
Here are more detailed informations for those who want to understand
what is discussed here. Running
setxkbmap -model macintosh -layout fr -print
displays (with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1)
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include macintosh(macbook)+aliases(azerty) };
xkb_types { include complete };
xkb_compat{ include complete };
xkb_symbols { include pc(pc105)+macintosh_vndr/fr+inet(apple)
};
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
};
In this discussion, we are only interested in keycodes.
Now have a look at /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/xorg
The line
! model = keycodes
tells that following lines will map model names to keycodes, in
particular
macintosh_old = macintosh(old)
macintosh_old2= macintosh
macbook = macintosh(macbook)
macintosh = macintosh(macbook)
$macs = macintosh
The $macs variable is defined at the top of this file. The right-hand
side refers to files under /usr/share/X11/xkb/keycodes.
When setting model to macintosh, setxkbmap adds macintosh(macbook) to
xkb_keycodes. The aliases(azerty) part comes from
! layout= keycodes
$azerty = +aliases(azerty)
$qwertz = +aliases(qwertz)
* = +aliases(qwerty)
but this is not important for us.
In unstable, there are 2 models: macintosh and macintosh_old.
The latter is for older kernels, and should probably be renamed into
macintosh_adb for clarity reasons.
Upstream received bug reports from MacBook users, complaining that
two keys were swapped. A macbook model has been added, but my
feeling is that it is misnamed since most Mac keyboards will need
it, not only MacBooks.
I made an experiment with 0.8-12exp1, by setting all models to
macintosh(macbook) by default (well I forgot to also modify $macs,
this is a bug), and introduced macintosh_old2 for people who need
it. In the next experimental version, I am considering using the
following rules:
macintosh_adb = macintosh(old)
macintosh_alt = macintosh
$macs = macintosh(macbook)
As explained by Michel, no name can fit the plain macintosh from
unstable, so macintosh_alt (for 'alternative') may be an option.
So maybe this should be handled via layout/variant/option.
I am afraid that this can hardly be done by layout or variant. But
this is doable by an option, so we would have 2 models (ADB and PC)
and an option would swap 2 keys. This is interesting, I will also
consider it.
Don't take my word for it though; I haven't sacrificed any neurons on
this for a couple of years, and my memory is fuzzy. I hope this will
help someone else dig out more information though.
Just to be clear, I am not a kernel guy, so if someone can indeed
confirm your words, that would be great.
Denis
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Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: Hem, under osx, to have the |\ etc. you need to press the apple key, not the alt key (on a french keyboard at least). As Bin said, here it's the alt key which is a modifier. The apple key is used for shortcuts (apple+o = Open...). Yannick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 20:10 +0200, Yannick Roehlly wrote: As Bin said, here it's the alt key which is a modifier. The apple key is used for shortcuts (apple+o = Open...). Ah, yes, sorry :) -- Yves-Alexis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 10:52:05PM +0200, Yannick Roehlly wrote: Yannick Roehlly wrote: On the French layout, the / and @/# keys are swapted. I just noticed that that's the meaning of Since all reports so far complained that LSGT and TLDE keys are swapped, this is now the default. If this breaks your keyboard, please speak up. Exactly ;) Is there an option to revert to the previous layout? You can set model to macintosh_old2, this is a workaround until we find exactly which models need swapped keys. Can you please cat /proc/cpuinfo and send its output? Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 08:46 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: You can set model to macintosh_old2, this is a workaround until we find exactly which models need swapped keys. Can you please cat /proc/cpuinfo and send its output? FWIW, IIRC this may actually be a kernel issue (its keyboard type detection is incomplete / buggy), so I'm not sure it can be solved at the XKB level without explicit configuration. -- Earthling Michel Dänzer | http://tungstengraphics.com Libre software enthusiast | Debian, X and DRI developer
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 10:36:14AM +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote: On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 08:46 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: You can set model to macintosh_old2, this is a workaround until we find exactly which models need swapped keys. Can you please cat /proc/cpuinfo and send its output? FWIW, IIRC this may actually be a kernel issue (its keyboard type detection is incomplete / buggy), so I'm not sure it can be solved at the XKB level without explicit configuration. Do you have any proposal for model names? AFAICT there are 3 keyboard models: - macintosh_old (ADB) - macintosh (keycodes are similar to PC ones) - macbook(ditto, except for 2 keys: TLDE=94 and LSGT=49) My feeling is that macbook name is misleading (because older *book needs it too), and new models all are of this type, so it could be the default. In 0.8-12exp1 I renamed those models into: - macintosh_old (ADB) - macintosh_old2 (keycodes are similar to PC ones) - macintosh (ditto, except for 2 keys: TLDE=94 and LSGT=49) I need help to find good model names, of course macintosh_old2 is only a temporary name to make experiments. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 11:42 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 10:36:14AM +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote: On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 08:46 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: You can set model to macintosh_old2, this is a workaround until we find exactly which models need swapped keys. Can you please cat /proc/cpuinfo and send its output? FWIW, IIRC this may actually be a kernel issue (its keyboard type detection is incomplete / buggy), so I'm not sure it can be solved at the XKB level without explicit configuration. Do you have any proposal for model names? I'm not sure a model will cut it either. Here's my recollection of the problem: The hardware keycodes of these keys can be swapped, depending on layout and maybe other factors (IIRC it's about ISO vs. other variants of ADB keyboards). The kernel should detect this and always generate the same PC-style keycodes, but fails to do so in some cases. I think the keyboard type can be deferred from dmesg|grep 'adb devices' but I forget how exactly. So maybe this should be handled via layout/variant/option. Don't take my word for it though; I haven't sacrificed any neurons on this for a couple of years, and my memory is fuzzy. I hope this will help someone else dig out more information though. -- Earthling Michel Dänzer | http://tungstengraphics.com Libre software enthusiast | Debian, X and DRI developer
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
Hi Denis, Denis Barbier wrote: You can set model to macintosh_old2, this is a workaround until we find exactly which models need swapped keys. Well, if I do a setxkbmap -rules xorg -model macintosh_old -layout fr -option the window manager dies (but not X) - tested with KDE/Kwin and FVWM. If I change to macintosh_old in xorg.conf, I have the weirdest keymap even seen. ;-) I'd like to show you but with this mapping I can't even do a copy/paste (the only thing I remember is that de @ key gives a m). Can you please cat /proc/cpuinfo and send its output? It's an ibook: processor : 0 cpu : 7447A, altivec supported clock : 599.999000MHz revision: 0.1 (pvr 8003 0101) bogomips: 36.73 timebase: 18432000 platform: PowerMac machine : PowerBook6,5 motherboard : PowerBook6,5 MacRISC3 Power Macintosh detected as : 287 (iBook G4) pmac flags : 001b L2 cache: 512K unified pmac-generation : NewWorld I use the macintosh layout because I have an apple usb keyboard attached and I want the keypad enter to be an enter key. Yannick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 13:09 +0200, Yannick Roehlly wrote: Denis Barbier wrote: You can set model to macintosh_old2, this is a workaround until we find exactly which models need swapped keys. Well, if I do a setxkbmap -rules xorg -model macintosh_old -layout fr -option the window manager dies (but not X) - tested with KDE/Kwin and FVWM. If I change to macintosh_old in xorg.conf, I have the weirdest keymap even seen. ;-) I'd like to show you but with this mapping I can't even do a copy/paste (the only thing I remember is that de @ key gives a m). macintosh_old2 != macintosh_old macintosh_old is for old kernels that generate ADB keycodes instead of PC-style keycodes. -- Earthling Michel Dänzer | http://tungstengraphics.com Libre software enthusiast | Debian, X and DRI developer
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On 9/8/06, Yannick Roehlly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Denis, Denis Barbier wrote: You can set model to macintosh_old2, this is a workaround until we find exactly which models need swapped keys. Well, if I do a setxkbmap -rules xorg -model macintosh_old -layout fr -option the window manager dies (but not X) - tested with KDE/Kwin and FVWM. If I change to macintosh_old in xorg.conf, I have the weirdest keymap even seen. ;-) I'd like to show you but with this mapping I can't even do a copy/paste (the only thing I remember is that de @ key gives a m). Can you please cat /proc/cpuinfo and send its output? It's an ibook: processor : 0 cpu : 7447A, altivec supported clock : 599.999000MHz revision: 0.1 (pvr 8003 0101) bogomips: 36.73 timebase: 18432000 platform: PowerMac machine : PowerBook6,5 motherboard : PowerBook6,5 MacRISC3 Power Macintosh detected as : 287 (iBook G4) pmac flags : 001b L2 cache: 512K unified pmac-generation : NewWorld I have the same cpuinfo (ibook G4 1.2Ghz 12). I use the macintosh layout because I have an apple usb keyboard attached and I want the keypad enter to be an enter key. My config: --- Section InputDevice Identifier Generic Keyboard Driver kbd Option CoreKeyboard Option XkbRules xorg Option XkbModel ibook Option XkbLayout fr Option XkbOptionslv3:lwin_switch EndSection -- It works fine with ibook's internal keyboard. So maybe your problem is your external usb keyboard. Best regards, Bin Yannick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
Good late summer evening, (well, in southern France at least) Bin Zhang wrote: Option XkbModel ibook With the ibook layout, it was working; but I prefer to use the macintosh layout so that the keypad enter behaves as KP_Enter. As Michel pointed at, the problem was that I've half read Denis mail (well, I missed a character). Using the macintosh_old2 layout works fine. My apologies... Does this mean that new Apple keyboards have the @ and the keys inverted? Yannick PS: By the way Denis, just a thought. On MacOs X, the ISO_Level3_shift key is the alt key. With xkb, it's the right alt key, à la PC AltGr. I don't know how good would be the idea to make the alt key ISO_Level3_shift and the apple key Alt_L(R). The advantage is for people switching from MacOS to GNU/Linux keep the same keyboard habits but the problem is in program where the Alt +... shortcuts becomes Apple +... shortcuts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 19:31 +0200, Yannick Roehlly wrote: PS: By the way Denis, just a thought. On MacOs X, the ISO_Level3_shift key is the alt key. With xkb, it's the right alt key, la PC AltGr. I don't know how good would be the idea to make the alt key ISO_Level3_shift and the apple key Alt_L(R). The advantage is for people switching from MacOS to GNU/Linux keep the same keyboard habits but the problem is in program where the Alt +... shortcuts becomes Apple +... shortcuts. Hem, under osx, to have the |\ etc. you need to press the apple key, not the alt key (on a french keyboard at least). -- Yves-Alexis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On 9/9/06, Yves-Alexis Perez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 19:31 +0200, Yannick Roehlly wrote:
PS: By the way Denis, just a thought. On MacOs X, the
ISO_Level3_shift key
is the alt key. With xkb, it's the right alt key, la PC AltGr. I
don't
know how good would be the idea to make the alt key ISO_Level3_shift
and
the apple key Alt_L(R). The advantage is for people switching from
MacOS to
GNU/Linux keep the same keyboard habits but the problem is in program
where
the Alt +... shortcuts becomes Apple +... shortcuts.
Hem, under osx, to have the |\ etc. you need to press the apple key, not
the alt key (on a french keyboard at least).
No. On my ibook with a french keyboard, under osx, it's alt +... for
| \ ~ {}[] ...
Bin
--
Yves-Alexis
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Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
Hi Denis, On the French layout, the / and @/# keys are swapted. Yannick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
Yannick Roehlly wrote: On the French layout, the / and @/# keys are swapted. I just noticed that that's the meaning of Since all reports so far complained that LSGT and TLDE keys are swapped, this is now the default. If this breaks your keyboard, please speak up. Is there an option to revert to the previous layout? Yannick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please test Macintosh keyboards with xkb-data 0.8-12exp1
On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 21:29 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: Since all reports so far complained that LSGT and TLDE keys are swapped, this is now the default. If this breaks your keyboard, please speak up. Here (powerbook 5,6) it works like a charm. Thanks, really. -- Yves-Alexis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
