Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Wolfang, On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 01:01:25AM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 12:31:49AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: About your other changes, if you want to modify pc105 German layout, please discuss with other German people, not on this list only. They may vote as they like ... All I hope is that they at least do vote .. :) Oh, and you could also add Unicode quote characters U201E/U201C (doublelowquotemark, leftdoublequotemark) to the German layout, for instance on v/b keys which use to have quotation marks. Please file a bug upstream when you reach a consensus with other German people: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=xkeyboard-config I like the idea of having the german quotes on the keyboard, even on x86/alpha. When you start collecting opinions/votes, please CC: me so I can participate. Thanks! Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Re xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 08:56:03AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: Le Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 09:04:15PM +0200, Denis Barbier a écrit : On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 12:18:10AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: [...] Actually, I just realised that windows keyboards use three different keys with similar functions but different keycodes. Charles, there is an ongoing discussion about the Japanese layout at https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8503 Can you please have a look and submit comments there? One week-end passed and I did not get feedback. What shall we do ? A release is due very soon, and changes in jp layout will be quite invasive, so they will surely happen after the release. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 12:48:31AM +, Jörg Sommer wrote: Hello Denis, Denis Barbier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and you could also add Unicode quote characters U201E/U201C (doublelowquotemark, leftdoublequotemark) to the German layout, for instance on v/b keys which use to have quotation marks. Or put it on ^ where it is on OS X 10.4: ^ ° „ “ Sure, this was only an example for PC keyboards, I have no idea about Mac keyboards. At the moment, notsign is on the 3rd level of this key. I saw your layout differs very much from the one used by OS X. I don't know how constant the layout from one version to the other is or if Apple change it regulary. Do you wan't to keep compatibility as much as possible? There is no such thing as *my* layout ;) Layouts come from upstream, and basically upstream makes changes when they are requested by bugreports and look reasonable. So if you want a Mac OS X layout, please file a bug report https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=xkeyboard-config Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Le Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 09:04:15PM +0200, Denis Barbier a écrit : On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 12:18:10AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: [...] Actually, I just realised that windows keyboards use three different keys with similar functions but different keycodes. Charles, there is an ongoing discussion about the Japanese layout at https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8503 Can you please have a look and submit comments there? One week-end passed and I did not get feedback. What shall we do ? Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy http://charles.plessy.org Wako, Saitama, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Denis, Denis Barbier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and you could also add Unicode quote characters U201E/U201C (doublelowquotemark, leftdoublequotemark) to the German layout, for instance on v/b keys which use to have quotation marks. Or put it on ^ where it is on OS X 10.4: ^ ° „ “ I saw your layout differs very much from the one used by OS X. I don't know how constant the layout from one version to the other is or if Apple change it regulary. Do you wan't to keep compatibility as much as possible? Regards, Jörg. -- Manchmal denke ich, das sicherste Indiz dafür, daß anderswo im Universum intelligentes Leben existiert, ist, daß niemand versucht hat, mit uns Kontakt aufzunehmen. (Calvin und Hobbes) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Le Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 10:17:29PM +0200, Denis Barbier a écrit :
Both have been splitted into 2 variants in X.Org. Try:
$ setxkbmap -model macintosh -layout jp -option -print
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include macintosh+aliases(qwerty) };
xkb_types { include complete+numpad(mac) };
xkb_compat{ include complete+japan};
xkb_symbols { include pc(pc105)+jp(latin)+jp:2+inet(apple) };
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
};
When jp layout is selected, 2 variants are in fact selected: first one
is jp(latin), second one is jp, which defaults to jp(jp106).
As you can imagine, jp(latin) is a slightly modified us version.
It is likely that Japanese people do not use the second group, but
instead an input method engine. With this setup, I believe that
eigo and kana keys can be used to switch between those groups.
Actually, I just realised that windows keyboards use three different
keys with similar functions but different keycodes. As what is written
in japanese on the mac keys is really transliterated as EIGO and KANA, I
propose to add the two following lines to
/usr/share/X11/xkb/keycodes/xfree86
EIGO = 210;
KANA = 209;
They do not seem to conflict with anything else. Then, there are extra
keys at the end of the rows E, D, and C. One (C) is listed in a jp106
specific section, wich is not taken into accound when I setxkbmap
-layout jp,ca -variant latin,multi. The two others of them (B,E) are
correctly defined in the section starting with the following comment:
// Keys that are generated on Japanese keyboards
For the sake of comprehensiveness, I will list them all anyway:
AB11 = 211;
AC12 =51;
AE13 = 133;
Maybe less important, there are four multimedia keys:
VOL- = 174;
VOL+ = 176;
MUTE = 160;
EJECT= 204;
I copied the name of the first three from the Solaris compatibility
section of the main definition, and invented EJECT.
Last but not least, the keypad. It has a Clear button which has the
same keycode as NumLock. On some macintosh apps, it clears the current
cell in spreadsheets. I like it a lot! Next to it is a KPEQ with a non
standard keycode. Between the zero and the dot, there is a comma, which
is useful for typing english-style numbers, or when the localisation is
broken. It also has a non-standard keycode, and I named it KPCO.
KPEQ = 157;
KPCO = 134;
I am a bit sorry that my understanding of the configuration files is too
superficial. I tried to modify the keycodes file by myself, and as a
result, could not load any keymab anymore. Therefore, I can not propose
a nice patch. I hope that the infos I listed are helpful enough.
Now that we have the keycodes, we need a jp keyboard in the
macintosh_vendr section. I also was unable to produce one. However, it
should be very similar to jp106, with the following differences:
- The use of the apple-specific keys, such as the multimedia, the KPCO
and KPEQ, and EIGO / KANA. I do not know what to recommend with EIGO /
KANA. Japanese users will expect them to swich the inupt system
between latin and transliteration from latin to japanese (i.e. not the
default jp106 wich directly outputs in japanese). This requires a UIM
system; on Mac OS there is only one, but there are many in linux. But
at least those keys should be available to the UIM systems.
- key AE13 { [ backslash, bar ] }; is Yen symbol / bar instead.
I am wondering if it should not be like this on PC as well.
I have screenshots of the MacOSX keyboard viewer with many combinations
of alt/shift/crtl... so we can go in the details later if we have time.
If you or somebody else could provide me some files to test, I would be
happy to do so.
Have a nice day,
--
Charles Plessy
http://charles.plessy.org
Wako, Saitama, Japan
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Re: Re xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 12:18:10AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: [...] Actually, I just realised that windows keyboards use three different keys with similar functions but different keycodes. Charles, there is an ongoing discussion about the Japanese layout at https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8503 Can you please have a look and submit comments there? Thanks. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi All
Please note: The attached patch is a suggestion of what might be nice
for qwertz (DE) macintosh laptops. It's meant as an idea for those who
like the pc105 mappings on macintosh laptops .. Please change the
patch to your likings, or have your say if you like the default
current unchanged official xkb-data 0.8-16 when running the
'setxkbmap' one liner below.
The patch should work on xkb-data 0.8-16.
On Fri, Sep 29 2006, at 16:54 +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
Hello,
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 10:46:49PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
Which problems do you have, when you load the pc105 layout? Aren't it
work?
Exactly. Currently I've loaded xkb-data 0.8-14, and with that version
as with the previous one I basically can use only 2 models:
powerbook or pc105: pc105 seems broken. With 'powerbook' at least
I find the keys I need.
I've tried it with -13 on my ibook G4 and it is broken as well. If
that would help, I can provide a list of broken keycodes, but the
entire third level seems goofed or gone.
So I'm editing symbols/macintosh_vndr/de currently ... I will surely
have what I want :) ..
Could you post your final results and check with Denis if they can be
included in the official deb?
I have a result that works, but I'd bet this little patch (attached to
this message), although it works perfectly here for a pc105 layout and
with the CLI one-liner below, can't get into some official
xkb-data. Simply because I believe it changes every pc105 layout on
every keyboard (macintosh, PC105, etc), just everywhere :)
So it's just an ugly hack, a suggestion rather to Denis and those who
prefer to have a pc105 layout on their Apple qwertz (DE) notebooks
than a patch to be included in xkb-data, and it's intended as a
practical way to show you what I'd prefer to have.
And if you like this diff: Great ... at least I do ... :)
The patch works for this PowerBook5,8 keyboard:
http://wolfgangpfeiffer.com/keyboard.PBook.g4-5.8.JPG
Note there might be changes I'd prefer much more than the ones
suggested here: Please let me know if you have better ideas than I do
... :)
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -option apple:badmap
-option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0
The small changes this patch does:
*** 1:
Alt_R instead of KP_Enter
With this last one-liner above with the regular xkb-data 0.8-16 I still
have a KP_Enter key left of the arrow LEFT key ... I played a bit
with that KP_Enter key, and all I found was that it's completely
useless. Please, anyone out there knowing more than I do: let me know.
So after applying the patch in this mail, on KP_Enter I will have an
Alt_R key. This is useful for me as I need some ALT key very often
with emacs.
It was difficult to map Alt_R to that key: The only way I found to do
that was to add also Meta_R ... Denis: What did I miss as to this last
point?
*** 2:
at on 'L'
I believe even on a PC105 layout it's nice to have what is engraved on
the keys. So I mapped the 'at' key to the 'L'.
I have it twice now because it's already on 'Q', but I'm not anal
about this: I simply like it that way ... :)
*** 3:
macron, exclamdown, questiondown
The macron is on a higher level on the 'L' key now, some sort of
upper_score, I think I've never seen it before, and it might be
useful sometimes. Looks like ¯¯¯this¯¯¯ ... :) ..
I also mapped exclamdown, questiondown to 'K' ... this last mapping
probably is not important, just nice to know I have it somewhere
... :) like so: ¡ ¿
Here's a way to apply the patch:
As root:
cd /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/
The backup:
cp de de.orig
The test:
patch -p2 --dry-run /path/to/de-pc105.diff
Real change:
patch -p2 /path/to/de-pc105.diff
As non-root:
cd
... and then running the setxkbmap one-liner above ...
Enjoy ... :)
Best Regards
Wolfgang
--
wolfgang pfeiffer: /ICQ: 286585973/ + + + /AIM: crashinglinux/
http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer
Key ID: E3037113
http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on--- xkb/symbols/de.orig 2006-09-29 22:21:32.0 +0200
+++ xkb/symbols/de 2006-09-29 23:47:40.0 +0200
@@ -28,7 +28,13 @@
key BKSL { [numbersign, apostrophe, dead_grave, dead_breve ] };
key AB01 { [ y, Y, guillemotleft,less ] };
+key AC08 { [ k, K, exclamdown, questiondown ] };
+key AC09 { [ l, L, at, macron] };
+// remove the KP_ENTER key from macintosh keyboards .. and install
+// a key that might be useful otherwise ... :)
+key KPEN { [Alt_R, Meta_R ] };
+
include keypad(comma)
include level3(ralt_switch)
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Salut Denis,
On 3 Oct, this message from Denis Barbier echoed through cyberspace:
On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 11:37:15PM +0200, Mich Lanners wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ setxkbmap -rules xorg -model macintosh -layout ch
-variant fr -print xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include xfree86+aliases(qwerty) };
xkb_types { include complete };
xkb_compat{ include complete };
xkb_symbols { include
macintosh/us(extended)+macintosh/ch(fr) };
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
};
Shouldn't xkb_symbols include macintosh_vndr(bla) instead of
macintosh(bla)?
Absolutely.
Better now:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ setxkbmap -print
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include macintosh+aliases(qwerty) };
xkb_types { include complete+numpad(mac) };
xkb_compat{ include complete };
xkb_symbols { include pc(pc105)+macintosh_vndr/ch(fr)+inet(apple)
};
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
};
The problem was I has XFree 6.9.0 installed, which looks for XKB files
in /etc/X11/xkb, not /usr/share/X11/xkb. Fixed by upgrading to 7.0 and
manually removing xlibs from 6.9.0, which provides, contrary to it's
name, only XKB data files.
Shouldn't this package be removed during upgrade from 6.9 to 7.0?
No, your analysis is right, and this has to be fixed first, all your
other problems may then disappear.
Now for the remaining problems:
I wrote:
Keypad block:
- KP_Equal is missing on keycode 157,
- top row is missing; they are volume down, volume up, mute, eject
All fixed.
Cursor and page up/down block:
- F14/F15/F16 are missing on keycodes 183, 184, 93 (in that order)
Keycode 93 gives F16, but F14/F15 on 183/184 are still missing
- the key labelled Help, between F14 and Delete, left of Home,
sends Insert as on PC keyboards. Not sure what to do about that
one.
Still the same but no additional info whether this is OK.
Alpha block:
- F13 is missing on keycode 182,
Problem persists.
- Apple keys (keycodes 115/left and 116/right) map to nothing
(NoSymbol), Alt keys map to Alt indeed.
Now: Apple keys map to Super_L, Super_R; left Alt maps to Alt_L, right
Alt maps to ISO_Level3_Shift.
Not necessarily what I want, but makes some sense.
Also, main problem (missing 3rd level symbols) is gone. I'll try to
check the current mapping against MacOS X mapping (which should be our
reference, I guess) to see whether any discrepancies are left.
Thanks, and cheers
Michel
-
Michel Lanners | Read Philosophy. Study Art.
23, Rue Paul Henkes|Ask Questions. Make Mistakes.
L-1710 Luxembourg |
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
http://www.cpu.lu/~mlan| Learn Always.
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 08:59:52PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: It was difficult to map Alt_R to that key: The only way I found to do that was to add also Meta_R ... Denis: What did I miss as to this last point? -option lv3:enter_switch About your other changes, if you want to modify pc105 German layout, please discuss with other German people, not on this list only. Maybe PC users have a different opinion. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 10:36:37PM +0200, Mich Lanners wrote: The problem was I has XFree 6.9.0 installed, which looks for XKB files in /etc/X11/xkb, not /usr/share/X11/xkb. Fixed by upgrading to 7.0 and manually removing xlibs from 6.9.0, which provides, contrary to it's name, only XKB data files. Shouldn't this package be removed during upgrade from 6.9 to 7.0? Yes, it should, but it could not be done before because many packages did depend on xlibs. Not sure if it will get fixed though, but it is harmless. Cursor and page up/down block: - F14/F15/F16 are missing on keycodes 183, 184, 93 (in that order) Keycode 93 gives F16, but F14/F15 on 183/184 are still missing Does it work if you remove FK13 = 182; FK14 = 183; FK15 = 184; from /usr/share/X11/xkb/keycodes/macintosh? - the key labelled Help, between F14 and Delete, left of Home, sends Insert as on PC keyboards. Not sure what to do about that one. Still the same but no additional info whether this is OK. No idea. Alpha block: - F13 is missing on keycode 182, Problem persists. - Apple keys (keycodes 115/left and 116/right) map to nothing (NoSymbol), Alt keys map to Alt indeed. Now: Apple keys map to Super_L, Super_R; left Alt maps to Alt_L, right Alt maps to ISO_Level3_Shift. Not necessarily what I want, but makes some sense. You can modify these settings by adding an lv3:* option, see /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/xorg.lst for a list. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Wed, Oct 04 2006, at 23:38 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 08:59:52PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: It was difficult to map Alt_R to that key: The only way I found to do that was to add also Meta_R ... Denis: What did I miss as to this last point? -option lv3:enter_switch Looks like I'm coming closer and closer to my perfect keyboard ... :) About your other changes, if you want to modify pc105 German layout, please discuss with other German people, not on this list only. They may vote as they like ... All I hope is that they at least do vote .. :) Thanks again Best Regards Wolfgang -- Wolfgang Pfeiffer: /ICQ: 286585973/ + + + /AIM: crashinglinux/ http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer Key ID: E3037113 http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 12:31:49AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: About your other changes, if you want to modify pc105 German layout, please discuss with other German people, not on this list only. They may vote as they like ... All I hope is that they at least do vote .. :) I should have mentioned that earlier, but it is very unlikely that changes in symbols/de will go into Etch. This is different for Mac layouts, since they were broken, I have no problem with changing them again, the result cannot be worse than was in sarge ;) Oh, and you could also add Unicode quote characters U201E/U201C (doublelowquotemark, leftdoublequotemark) to the German layout, for instance on v/b keys which use to have quotation marks. Please file a bug upstream when you reach a consensus with other German people: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=xkeyboard-config Thanks. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Thu, Oct 05 2006, at 01:01 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 12:31:49AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: About your other changes, if you want to modify pc105 German layout, please discuss with other German people, not on this list only. They may vote as they like ... All I hope is that they at least do vote .. :) I should have mentioned that earlier, but it is very unlikely that changes in symbols/de will go into Etch. This is different for Mac layouts, since they were broken, I have no problem with changing them again, the result cannot be worse than was in sarge ;) IINM, the Mac layouts are those in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/macintosh_vndr/ and these are non-PC105 (?), so they're not of much use for me ... I could try to write a new one for that dir above, with pc105 mappings, but I don't know how to integrate a map in there in a way it works. That is, IIRC, it's not enough to simply put a new map in there, and then trying to activate it without having changed other files that refer to, and know about this newly created map ... IIRC. Best Regards Wolfgang Oh, and you could also add Unicode quote characters U201E/U201C (doublelowquotemark, leftdoublequotemark) to the German layout, for instance on v/b keys which use to have quotation marks. Please file a bug upstream when you reach a consensus with other German people: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=xkeyboard-config Thanks. Denis -- Wolfgang Pfeiffer: /ICQ: 286585973/ + + + /AIM: crashinglinux/ http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer Key ID: E3037113 http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi Denis,
Sorry to come in late on this...
On 23 Sep, this message from Denis Barbier echoed through cyberspace:
Hi,
I just uploaded xkb-data 0.8-13 into unstable, it
is available at http://people.debian.org/~barbier/tmp/
and will reach mirrors in almost a day.
I installed 0.8-16 today , on a Mac Mini with an Apple USB keyboard (the
white one). I am using a swiss french layout.
I reloaded X with the new xkb-data and with the following config:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ grep -i xkb /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Option XkbRules xorg
Option XkbModel macintosh
Option XkbLayout ch
Option XkbVariantfr
# Option XkbOptionslv3:lwin_switch
While this is generally quite OK (it took me some time to find the
XkbVariant method for specifying swiss _french_)
Keypad block:
- KP_Equal is missing on keycode 157,
- top row is missing; they are volume down, volume up, mute, eject on
keycodes 174, 176, 160, 204 in that order.
Cursor and page up/down block:
- F14/F15/F16 are missing on keycodes 183, 184, 93 (in that order)
- the key labelled Help, between F14 and Delete, left of Home, sends
Insert as on PC keyboards. Not sure what to do about that one.
Alpha block:
- F13 is missing on keycode 182,
- Apple keys (keycodes 115/left and 116/right) map to nothing
(NoSymbol), Alt keys map to Alt indeed.
- The tilde key (symbol is different, but as engraved) and the
are in the right place, i.e. not swapped. I can't verify (short of
rebooting) whether the kernel detects ISO or not.
All engraved Shift'ed symbols are OK as well.
However, the big problem is this: I can't acces 3rd/4th level! It would
seem that the corresponding symbols are not defined (i.e. it's not a
modifier problem). I suspect the problem here:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ setxkbmap -rules xorg -model macintosh -layout ch
-variant fr -print
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include xfree86+aliases(qwerty) };
xkb_types { include complete };
xkb_compat{ include complete };
xkb_symbols { include macintosh/us(extended)+macintosh/ch(fr)
};
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
};
Shouldn't xkb_symbols include macintosh_vndr(bla) instead of
macintosh(bla)? And indeed, compiling:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ setxkbmap -rules xorg -model macintosh -layout ch
-variant fr -print | xkbcomp - :0
Error:Can't find file macintosh/ch for symbols include
Exiting
Abandoning symbols file (null)
Error:success in unknown
Couldn't write keyboard description to :0
Now, my analysis may be completely off as I am by no means an XKB expert
(and seeing the complexity and lack of documentation I doubt many people
are).
Any comments apreciated
Cheers
Michel
-
Michel Lanners | Read Philosophy. Study Art.
23, Rue Paul Henkes|Ask Questions. Make Mistakes.
L-1710 Luxembourg |
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
http://www.cpu.lu/~mlan| Learn Always.
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 11:37:15PM +0200, Mich Lanners wrote:
[...]
However, the big problem is this: I can't acces 3rd/4th level! It would
seem that the corresponding symbols are not defined (i.e. it's not a
modifier problem). I suspect the problem here:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ setxkbmap -rules xorg -model macintosh -layout ch
-variant fr -print
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include xfree86+aliases(qwerty) };
xkb_types { include complete };
xkb_compat{ include complete };
xkb_symbols { include macintosh/us(extended)+macintosh/ch(fr)
};
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
};
Shouldn't xkb_symbols include macintosh_vndr(bla) instead of
macintosh(bla)?
Absolutely.
And indeed, compiling:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ setxkbmap -rules xorg -model macintosh -layout ch
-variant fr -print | xkbcomp - :0
Error:Can't find file macintosh/ch for symbols include
Exiting
Abandoning symbols file (null)
Error:success in unknown
Couldn't write keyboard description to :0
Now, my analysis may be completely off as I am by no means an XKB expert
(and seeing the complexity and lack of documentation I doubt many people
are).
No, your analysis is right, and this has to be fixed first, all your
other problems may then disappear.
Maybe XKBPATH env variable is set, or you symlinked /usr/share/X11/xkb
to another location?
Denis
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Chris, Chris Burdess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jörg Sommer wrote: If I sit in front of a keyboard with an Apple logo, I expect an Apple keyboard. If I see the @ sign engraved on the L key, I expect I get it when I press Modifier+L. That's laudable, and echoes my own expectations with respect to the Alt+click (right click) when using X on my (1-button mouse) Powerbook. I think no. But maybe this helps you. http://www.linuxfocus.org/English/May2004/index.shtml#tip I don't know if it is possible to use the Pointer_ButtonX on the left side of the xmodmap expression, but you can map the buttons to a key. xmodmap -e 'keysym space = space Pointer_Button3' Bye, Jörg. -- Ein Mensch sieht ein und das ist wichtig, nichts ist ganz flach und nichts ganz richtig. (Eugen Roth) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Denis, On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 09:40:44PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:02:33PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: [...] Denis: Do you by chance know, who works on the PowerPC installation manual? In debian-installer, one selects a *console* layout; only a subset of keymaps from console-data are included because of space constraints. There is code in xserver-xorg.config to transform the selected console keymap into XKB settings. How are these settings selected? Some users performed tests for their hardware, gave their selected console keymap and their desired XKB settings, so that xserver-xorg.config can be updated. We are now very late in the release cycle, I am not sure if this can be fixed, but if you want to try, please hurry up. To me, those XKB settings do not belong to installation manual, but I will be glad to add a README for Mac users into xkb-data if someone can write detailed instructions. Well, once Etch is released, I can have a look at the installer to see what it does. What I intend(ed) was to put something in the installation guide for PowerPC (at least for now) which explains how to switch between Mac-like third level assignement and PC-like third level assignement. I guess you or some d-i person gets to chose which will be the default for X, but users might not like that. Therefore I volunteered to provide an easy to find explanation. Additionally something like this could go into a README for xkb as well, if you think that is sensible. For Etch+1 there should be a possibility in d-i to choose it, but right now thats IMHO not possible anymore. I could see that I get documentation for this setting into it. And if it helps calm things down, we could mace the apple-layout the default. In another thread, Wolfgang asked days ago what is the plan for the future. As explained above, testing keymaps of debian-installer would help fixing current bugs. Sorry, right now I need my laptop working but I will see if I can nevertheless to a test install for Etch+1. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Jörg, On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 10:05:52PM +, Jörg Sommer wrote: Helge Kreutzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I run % setxkbmap -model pc105 -layout de -variant nodeadkeys I get the normal PC layout. Maybe you want -option lv3:lwin_switch to use the Apple key as AltGr. Thanks, this works! So with current xkb, both the Mac-layout people and the PC layout people (using a german keyboard) have a working mapping. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Euro sign [was: Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable]
Hello, On 29 Sep, this message from Helge Kreutzmann echoed through cyberspace: Hello Wolfgang, On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:09:04PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: On X (that is KDE/KDM), according to the KDE control-center, General:Arial 9 (numbers here and following mean size) Fixed width:Monospace 9 Toolbar:Arial 9 Menu: Arial 9 Window Title: Sans Serif 9 Taskbar:Arial 9 Desktop:Arial 9 Please let me know if you need more details (Font packages installed, etc ..) First I'd like to know if you can see it in an xterm. I can perfectly fine see it in openoffice or gvim, but not in xterm or vim. It works in uxterm, though :-)). If it works in your xterm, can you post the results of appres XTerm | grep font A long time ago, without Gnome, for xterm, you needed fonts that include the Euro glyph. Those are iso-8859-15 fonts, which xterm (at least for me...) didn't use by default. Some time ago (2 years?), I did sone work to Euro-enable my Unix systems. One task was to change the xterm fonts through Xdefaults mechanism, replacing the default fonts with their Euro-enabled counterparts. You also need the xfonts-*-transcoded font packages installed, those provide the fonts different from iso8859-1. I also now checked on my current systems, and though Gnome does the Euro by default, xterm does not. My old xresources configuration is hidden on some backup tape, so not that readily available. Let me know if you really need it. A good idea is also to run a Euro-enabled locale. My /etc/environment contains: LANGUAGE=en_LU:en_US:en_GB:en LANG=en_US.ISO-8859-15 On another system, I run: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also have a look at the Debian Euro-Howto: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-euro-support/ HTH Cheers Michel - Michel Lanners | Read Philosophy. Study Art. 23, Rue Paul Henkes|Ask Questions. Make Mistakes. L-1710 Luxembourg | email [EMAIL PROTECTED]| http://www.cpu.lu/~mlan| Learn Always. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi Helge, Helge Kreutzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:15:43AM +, Jörg Sommer wrote: Helge Kreutzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the PC style version, Then configure a PC style keyboard. Use pc105 instead of macintosh. Could you be so kind to tell me exactly what I should try? When I run % setxkbmap -model pc105 -layout de -variant nodeadkeys I get the normal PC layout. Maybe you want -option lv3:lwin_switch to use the Apple key as AltGr. Bye, Jörg. -- Damit das Mögliche entsteht, muß immer wieder das Unmögliche versucht werden. (Hermann Hesse) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Burdess wrote: Jörg Sommer wrote: If I sit in front of a keyboard with an Apple logo, I expect an Apple keyboard. If I see the @ sign engraved on the L key, I expect I get it when I press Modifier+L. That's laudable, and echoes my own expectations with respect to the Alt+click (right click) when using X on my (1-button mouse) Powerbook. Is this ever going to happen, or will I forever be limited to an external 2/3-button USB mouse? /me waits with bated breath... Use mouseemu. I have configured it to generate the right things: - - Left_Ctrl+click = right click - - Left_Shift+click = middle click If you have to modifier+click, you can use Fn+modifier+click which will act as right_modifier+click which is different from Left_modifier. Or you could map the combinations on Right_modifier+click if you want. Here is my mouseemu configuration file: - --8--- $ cat /etc/default/mouseemu # Defaults for mouseemu initscript (/etc/init.d/mouseemu) # These are the default values on PowerPC. On all other architectures # middle and right click are disabled by default. # Key codes can be found in include/linux/input.h in the kernel headers # or by using `showkey` in a console. #MID_CLICK=-middle 0 68 # F10 with no modifier #MID_CLICK=-middle 0 0 # no middle click emulation MID_CLICK=-middle 42 272 # left shift + click #MID_CLICK=-middle 125 272 # Left Apple Key (LEFTMETA) + click #RIGHT_CLICK=-right 0 87# F11 with no modifier RIGHT_CLICK=-right 29 272 # Left Ctrl + click #SCROLL=-scroll 56 # Alt key SCROLL=-scroll 0 # no scroll TYPING_BLOCK=-typing-block 500 # block mouse for 500ms after a keypress - --8--- - -- Regards, EddyP = Imagination is more important than knowledge A.Einstein -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFHOKEY8Chqv3NRNoRApWOAJ9e9Th6G6wOu+1vEzHCyuY2tf6bTgCeO+vF +UBv6AnU20TjISQNrt3DEq0= =Xo6M -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello, On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 12:20:23AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: $ setxkbmap -option -option apple:badmap -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout de -variant nodeadkeys -print | xkbcomp - :0 does solve this issue Thanks .. :) OT: Do you see a Euro-sign in X/on the console for Apple-E? And if so, what kind of font do you use? Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On 9/29/06, Helge Kreutzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 12:20:23AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: $ setxkbmap -option -option apple:badmap -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout de -variant nodeadkeys -print | xkbcomp - :0 does solve this issue Thanks .. :) OT: Do you see a Euro-sign in X/on the console for Apple-E? And if so, what kind of font do you use? It seems to me that you need use uft-8. Best regards, Bin Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFHSZjRsxcY/MYpWoRAqSiAKCwjBWCUxDgfKOIp7Z+7sgR92Y8sACfRyaE U+NE83xM/jJHGrnGNljG714= =ZqQd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hallo Denis,
On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 11:34:14PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
On Sat, Sep 23, 2006 at 03:52:11PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
So the following still needs to be done for a german ibook keyboard:
1. When pressing the key between ß? and backspace, I still get
nothing, while I expect ' as printed on the key. With the shift
modifier it works. This is keycode 21.
It works for me, please try with xev:
Thats what I did, my output differs slightly:
KeyRelease event, serial 31, synthetic NO, window 0x1e1,
32 0x101
root 0x135, subw 0x0, time 3784639752, (874,-79), root:(886,584),
0x44 4192263880 (117,59)(613,86)
state 0x0, keycode 21 (keysym 0xb4, acute), same_screen YES,
0x1 0x60, grave
XLookupString gives 2 bytes: (c2 b4) ´
1(60) `
Strange, in vim I get a `, while on the console I now get a ,
2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the
PC style version, i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get
(starting at AltGr-5) []|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable.
Also I still wonder why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
I am happy that you kept AltGr-Y and AltGr-X as « and ».
Can you please test this patch, and if possible discuss improvements
with other German Mac users?
Will do so over the weekend.
Also several characters are on several positions, e.g. `, ~, |, «, ß,
}. As of now, I don't see this as a problem, but maybe a general
consensus should be found regarding the AltGr-mapping.
This is indeed usually not a problem.
Denis
Index: xkb-data/symbols/macintosh_vndr/de
===
--- xkb-data.orig/symbols/macintosh_vndr/de
+++ xkb-data/symbols/macintosh_vndr/de
@@ -18,16 +18,16 @@
key AE02 { [ 2,quotedbl, twosuperior
] };
key AE03 { [ 3,section, threesuperior,sterling
] };
key AE04 { [ 4,dollar, onequarter,currency
] };
-key AE05 { [ 5,percent, bracketleft
] };
-key AE06 { [ 6,ampersand, bracketright
] };
-key AE07 { [ 7,slash,bar,backslash
] };
-key AE08 { [ 8,parenleft, braceleft,asciitilde
] };
-key AE09 { [ 9,parenright, braceright
] };
+key AE05 { [ 5,percent, onehalf
] };
+key AE06 { [ 6,ampersand, notsign ]
};
+key AE07 { [ 7,slash, braceleft, seveneighths
] };
+key AE08 { [ 8,parenleft, bracketleft, trademark
] };
+key AE09 { [ 9,parenright, bracketright, plusminus
] };
key AE10 { [ 0,equal, braceright, degree
] };
key AE11 { [ssharp,question, backslash, questiondown
] };
key AE12 { [ dead_acute, dead_grave, dead_cedilla
] };
-key AD01 { [ q,Q, guillemotleft,guillemotright ]
};
+key AD01 { [ q,Q, at ]
};
key AD03 { [ e,E, EuroSign ]
};
key AD04 { [ r,R, registered ]
};
key AD05 { [ t,T ] };
@@ -46,7 +46,8 @@
key AC11 { [ adiaeresis, Adiaeresis, dead_circumflex
] };
key LSGT { [ less,greater,bar
] };
-key AB01 { [ y,Y, guillemotleft,less ]
};
+key AB01 { [ y,Y, guillemotright, less ] };
+key AB02 { [ x,X, guillemotleft,greater ] };
key AB06 { [ n,N, asciitilde ]
};
key AB07 { [ m,M, mu ]
};
key AB08 { [ comma,semicolon ] };
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello, On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 04:05:59PM +0200, Bin Zhang wrote: OT: Do you see a Euro-sign in X/on the console for Apple-E? And if so, what kind of font do you use? It seems to me that you need use uft-8. I think I already use UTF-8. On the console I issued unicode_start. LANG is set to [EMAIL PROTECTED] On the console I get a white square for the euro sign, in X simply an empty space. Keycode is 26 EuroSign, so I think it probably is a font issue. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Jörg,
On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:19:58AM +, Jörg Sommer wrote:
Wolfgang Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, Sep 23, 2006 at 03:52:11PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
1. When pressing the key between ß? and backspace, I still get
nothing, while I expect ' as printed on the key. With the shift
modifier it works. This is keycode 21.
2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the
PC style version, i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\
My vote for this. Definitely. :)
Use pc105 instead of macintosh. It's an Apple keyboard not a PC keyboard.
I vote for the Apple layout.
I'd like the PC variant as well. So what kind of options do I need to
get the pc style layout? If thats as good as the current version of
Denis, but only has the swapped brackets, I can of course switch.
For your question: I only run MacOSX for one game, and since almost no
third level is engraved, guessing becomes quite hard. And besides, I
can type blindly the PC style keyboard. I bought this machine for
linux, not for MacOSX.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
Same here, on a PowerBook5.8: ISO_Level3_Shift + Q = «
At me, the sign @ is engraved on the L key not on the Q key. Why do you
expect a PC keyboard layout when you use an Apple keyboard?
I don't mind having Apple-L returning @, and since it is engraved, I
could even live with Apple-Q *not* returning @ (though it would be
really nice still). But I dont' think a lonely « is sensible, so I
would at least suggest both return @. Do you actually use Apple-Q as «?
I just wonder why apple chose not to engrave most of the third-level
keys (but then I wouldn't have a big point for requesting a PC style
layout, at least as an option :-))
Greetings
Helge
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Jörg, On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:15:43AM +, Jörg Sommer wrote: Helge Kreutzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the following still needs to be done for a german ibook keyboard: 1. When pressing the key between ß? and backspace, I still get nothing, while I expect ' as printed on the key. With the shift modifier it works. This is keycode 21. It's a dead key. Press a 'e' after it and you get é. The ' is definitive the wrong character! I set XkbVariant to nodeadkeys, hence I do not expect (read: want) this composing. And, for some reason, I actually get , now, so this possibility is definitly gone. 2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the PC style version, Then configure a PC style keyboard. Use pc105 instead of macintosh. Could you be so kind to tell me exactly what I should try? There are so many possibilities now, I'd rather try the right one. (Especially since a PC style is still slightly different then the ibook one). It's a Apple keyboard. Don't use it, if you don't like it. Pardon? I mean, I could unlock it from my ibook, but I do not see how to detach the cable, and I've never heard that apple sells other keyboards for their ibooks. Or do you think I should by an external USB keyboard instead of helping to create an option to use the PC style variant? Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Wolfang, On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:13:51PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: Problem so far: I'm happy with what I have with the latest xkb-data here .. :) Mee too. The brackets are about the only thing left, and I've hadn't have a chance to try Denis latest patch yet. I always get either a wonderful, fully fledged PC style keyboard, but I never managed to get a, for me rather useless, Macintosh style keyboard, with a Kp_Enter key and so on .. :-)) It's a Apple keyboard. Don't use it, if you don't like it. With logics like this I could say: This is Linux. Go get OSX if you want an Apple keyboard. Especially since apple decided *not* to engrave this uncommon use. Colin: Is there anything already decided in how the future keyboard layouts on xkb-data, for Apple machines, will look like: PC-style, or Apple style, or options for both of them? That would be ideal. Then the installation guide to simply have a paragraph telling users how to switch. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Jörg, On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 09:25:44AM +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote: You're missing the point. The macintosh layouts should match what's physically engraved on the keys of an Apple keyboard as much as possible. Same for the pc layouts vs. PC keyboards. You should appreciate the possibility of choosing between these instead of trying to impose one onto the other. Exactly my point. Except, there is almost nothing engraved for the third level. I only see the Euro sign (Apple-E) and the At-Sign (Apple-L). So there is *no* preference hardware wise. I don't think there should be any on the software side. Since obviously a choice has to be made, the switching should be clearly spelled out in the documentation. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Olaf, On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:47:27PM +0200, Olaf Hering wrote: macintosh means and does MacOS mapping. I made it that way back in 2000. Dont change it. If you want a PC map, use a PC map. Well, first thanks for creating a keyboard map. But judging by my experience and also what I've read on the list and several web pages for ibooks/powerbooks, the mapping was broken for almost everyone. So I don't think it would be wrong to not only fix it, but also use the chance to find out the default mapping most for the most people. IMHO there should be no Don't pre-supposed. And to be honest, I don't care what the name of the mapping is. I *do* care that it works by default or after a simple change clearly spelt out in the (installation) documentation, like. Keyboard: For insert your favorite reason the default keyboard is set up like under your favorite other OS, if you like the setup to resemble the one used on other architectures, e.g. x86 or alpha then insert a simple description here, like add the following line in /etc/xorg.conf, or run dpkg-reconfigure In this thread I've only seen vague indications of what I should do, but no clear indication which map in which variant produces the same result as Denis good work modulo the third level mapping for 7-0. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello, On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 04:07:05PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: Strange, in vim I get a `, while on the console I now get a , Scratch that: it's working in -13 should fine, I was accidentially typing Apple-'. Greetings, Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello, On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 10:46:49PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: Which problems do you have, when you load the pc105 layout? Aren't it work? Exactly. Currently I've loaded xkb-data 0.8-14, and with that version as with the previous one I basically can use only 2 models: powerbook or pc105: pc105 seems broken. With 'powerbook' at least I find the keys I need. I've tried it with -13 on my ibook G4 and it is broken as well. If that would help, I can provide a list of broken keycodes, but the entire third level seems goofed or gone. So I'm editing symbols/macintosh_vndr/de currently ... I will surely have what I want :) .. Could you post your final results and check with Denis if they can be included in the official deb? Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello,
On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 01:53:13AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
This helps:
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -option apple:badmap
-option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0
which maps keycode 115, the left Apple key, to ISO_Level3_Shift:
And I have @ | { [ ] } « »
On my ibook, without the badmap-option, it works like a charm as well.
And it also hase the »« mapping on Apple-Y and Apple-X. So I think
your question is answered if that should be the default, but maybe
there is something different in MacOSX there?
Denis: Do you by chance know, who works on the PowerPC installation
manual? I could see that I get documentation for this setting into it.
And if it helps calm things down, we could mace the apple-layout the
default.
Greetings
Helge
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello, On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:38:44AM +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: I don't really know if it's a xkb or a kernel problem, but here the numeric keypad don't really work. I guess on osx Fn+u gives a 4, but it doesn't here. If i numlock using Fn+F6, the led under F6 lights, but the numeric keypad isn't activated. with -13, pressing Fn-j I get a 1, Fn-k 2 and so on, when pressing Fn-F6 (Num.), j gives me a 1 directly (same for the others). Since I've never used it on my ibook G4 before, I don't know if that is the supposed behaviour, but it seems sensible. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Euro sign [was: Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable]
Hi Helge I removed the In-Reply-To: header, to get a new thread ... I hope you don't mind ... :) On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 03:57:55PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: Hello, On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 12:20:23AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: $ setxkbmap -option -option apple:badmap -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout de -variant nodeadkeys -print | xkbcomp - :0 does solve this issue Thanks .. :) OT: Do you see a Euro-sign in X/on the console for Apple-E? Yes, both on console and X, on both places via Left-Apple-E And if so, what kind of font do you use? On X (that is KDE/KDM), according to the KDE control-center, General: Arial 9 (numbers here and following mean size) Fixed width: Monospace 9 Toolbar: Arial 9 Menu: Arial 9 Window Title: Sans Serif 9 Taskbar: Arial 9 Desktop: Arial 9 Please let me know if you need more details (Font packages installed, etc ..) On console, /etc/console-tools/config is responsible for the settings, correct?: Excerpt from /etc/console-tools/config # Turn on numlock by default #LEDS=+num SCREEN_FONT=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc2=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc3=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc4=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc5=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc6=lat9w-16 I just looked at my notes concerning consolechars: They say (and sorry if you know 'consolechars' already .. ): consolechars --tty=/dev/tty3 -vf lat9w-16 --- consolechars --no-act --tty=/dev/tty3 -vf lat9w-10 --- consolechars --default-font -- [notes like above simply help me forget man pages, once I found how some tool works ... :) ] I doubt the following will help, but who knows: On console: $ dumpkeys -i keycode range supported by kernel: 1 - 255 max number of actions bindable to a key: 256 number of keymaps in actual use: 14 of which 7 dynamically allocated ranges of action codes supported by kernel: number of function keys supported by kernel: 256 max nr of compose definitions: 256 nr of compose definitions in actual use: 68 If we're already at it: I just realized that even on console the key (right hand side of SHIFT) and ^° (above TAB) are swapped ... Same on your console? My boottime.kmap.gz: www.wolfgangpfeiffer.com/boottime.kmap.gz PowerBook5,8 here. Please let me know if you need to know more Best Regards Wolfgang -- Wolfgang Pfeiffer: /ICQ: 286585973/ + + + /AIM: crashinglinux/ http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer Key ID: E3037113 http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:02:33PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
Hello,
On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 01:53:13AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
This helps:
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -option apple:badmap
-option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0
which maps keycode 115, the left Apple key, to ISO_Level3_Shift:
And I have @ | { [ ] } « »
On my ibook, without the badmap-option, it works like a charm as
well.
Does this mean, with the badmap option your keyboard doesn't do what
you want?
As to without the badmap option: With that setting, do you have a
nice pc105 layout, without the (right side of SHIFT and ^° (above
TAB) keys being swapped?
Best Regards
Wolfgang
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello, On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:43:04PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:02:33PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 01:53:13AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: This helps: setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -option apple:badmap -option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0 I type: setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0 Does this mean, with the badmap option your keyboard doesn't do what you want? Yes, *with* badmap, and ^° are switche, without (as shown above) *all* keys I normally use (e.g. not that secret num key) are just as they are supposed to. As to without the badmap option: With that setting, do you have a nice pc105 layout, without the (right side of SHIFT and ^° (above TAB) keys being swapped? Yes. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Euro sign [was: Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable]
On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:09:04PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: On X (that is KDE/KDM), according to the KDE control-center, General: Arial 9 (numbers here and following mean size) ^^^ should say: (numbers here and following mean size, IINM) Fixed width: Monospace 9 Toolbar: Arial 9 Menu:Arial 9 Window Title:Sans Serif 9 Taskbar: Arial 9 Desktop: Arial 9 [ ... ] I just looked at my notes concerning consolechars: They say (and sorry if you know 'consolechars' already .. ): consolechars --tty=/dev/tty3 -vf lat9w-16 --- consolechars --no-act --tty=/dev/tty3 -vf lat9w-10 --- consolechars --default-font -- [notes like above simply help me forget man pages, Not quite right: But they help me glance faster over man pages ... :) once I found how some tool works ... :) ] Best Regards Wolfgang -- Wolfgang Pfeiffer: /ICQ: 286585973/ + + + /AIM: crashinglinux/ http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer Key ID: E3037113 http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi Helge On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:50:48PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: Hello, On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:43:04PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:02:33PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 01:53:13AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: This helps: setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -option apple:badmap -option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0 I type: setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0 Does this mean, with the badmap option your keyboard doesn't do what you want? Yes, *with* badmap, and ^° are switche, without (as shown above) *all* keys I normally use (e.g. not that secret num key) are just as they are supposed to. As to without the badmap option: With that setting, do you have a nice pc105 layout, without the (right side of SHIFT and ^° (above TAB) keys being swapped? Yes. Interesting: Here, on a PowerBook5,8, it's vice versa: Without 'badmap', and ^° are swapped, with badmap they are where the keys engravement shows they should be. -- Wolfgang Pfeiffer: /ICQ: 286585973/ + + + /AIM: crashinglinux/ http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer Key ID: E3037113 http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Euro sign [was: Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable]
Hello Wolfgang, On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:09:04PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: I removed the In-Reply-To: header, to get a new thread ... I hope you don't mind ... :) No, that is perfectly fine, in fact, I've should it done as well. Could you also remove the CC: to my address please as well, I am subscribed. On X (that is KDE/KDM), according to the KDE control-center, General: Arial 9 (numbers here and following mean size) Fixed width: Monospace 9 Toolbar: Arial 9 Menu:Arial 9 Window Title:Sans Serif 9 Taskbar: Arial 9 Desktop: Arial 9 Please let me know if you need more details (Font packages installed, etc ..) First I'd like to know if you can see it in an xterm. I can perfectly fine see it in openoffice or gvim, but not in xterm or vim. It works in uxterm, though :-)). If it works in your xterm, can you post the results of appres XTerm | grep font On console, /etc/console-tools/config is responsible for the settings, correct?: Excerpt from /etc/console-tools/config # Turn on numlock by default #LEDS=+num SCREEN_FONT=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc2=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc3=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc4=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc5=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc6=lat9w-16 Thanks. I just wonder when the maintainers of console-tools fix #299798 so others don't have to search the mailing lists for this. With this change, I now have a euro in the console as well. [notes like above simply help me forget man pages, once I found how some tool works ... :) ] I know, you should see my notes :-)) My boottime.kmap.gz: www.wolfgangpfeiffer.com/boottime.kmap.gz My keymap per se works, except I'd have to add » and « at some stage, but on the laptop I don't need them this often. Please let me know if you need to know more Except for my xterm question above, I'm happy. You've helped a lot. Thanks. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello Wolfgang, On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 06:10:08PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: Interesting: Here, on a PowerBook5,8, it's vice versa: Without 'badmap', and ^° are swapped, with badmap they are where the keys engravement shows they should be. I think this is the random element Denis talked about. Greetings Helge -- Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys. [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg signed mail preferred 64bit GNU powered http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Euro sign [was: Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable]
Hi Helge On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 08:36:26PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: Hello Wolfgang, On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:09:04PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: [ ... ] First I'd like to know if you can see it in an xterm. I can see the Euro sign in an xterm command prompt. But not in mutt if I run it in an xterm. If mutt is in KDE's konsole (1.6.4) I can see the € (Euro) sign .. So for me it looks like an xterm issue ... :) IIRC this is an old issue for mutt here ... Never had the time to explore that ... But I've other font issues with mutt as well .. :) I can perfectly fine see it in openoffice or gvim, but not in xterm or vim. It works in uxterm, though :-)). If it works in your xterm, can you post the results of appres XTerm | grep font + $ appres XTerm | grep font *emacs21*menu*font: -adobe-helvetica-medium-r-normal-*-*-120-*-*-p-*-iso8859-1 *emacs21*font: 9x15 *fontMenu*fontsel*Label:Selection *fontMenu*font1*Label: Unreadable *fontMenu*font4*Label: Medium *fontMenu*render-font*Label:TrueType Fonts *fontMenu*font5*Label: Large *fontMenu*font-linedrawing*Label: Line-Drawing Characters *fontMenu*utf8-mode*Label: UTF-8 *fontMenu*font6*Label: Huge *fontMenu*font2*Label: Tiny *fontMenu*font-doublesize*Label:Doublesized Characters *fontMenu*utf8-title*Label: UTF-8 Titles *fontMenu*fontescape*Label: Escape Sequence *fontMenu*fontdefault*Label:Default *fontMenu*font3*Label: Small *fontMenu*font-loadable*Label: VT220 Soft Fonts *fontMenu*backgroundPixmap: gradient:vertical?dimension=220start=gray90end=gray60 *fontMenu*foreground: gray15 *fontMenu.Label:VT Fonts *fontMenu*background: AntiqueWhite *tek4014*fontLarge: 9x15 *tek4014*font2: 8x13 *tek4014*font3: 6x13 *tek4014*fontSmall: 6x10 *SimpleMenu*menuLabel.font: -adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-iso8859-* *emacs*menu*font: -adobe-helvetica-medium-r-normal-*-*-120-*-*-p-*-iso8859-1 *emacs*font:9x15 *VT100.utf8Fonts.font4: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--13-120-75-75-c-80-iso10646-1 *VT100.utf8Fonts.font2: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--8-80-75-75-c-50-iso10646-1 *VT100.utf8Fonts.font6: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--20-200-75-75-c-100-iso10646-1 *VT100.utf8Fonts.font5: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--18-120-100-100-c-90-iso10646-1 *VT100.utf8Fonts.font3: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--14-130-75-75-c-70-iso10646-1 *VT100.utf8Fonts.font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1 *VT100.font1: nil2 *VT100.font2: 5x7 *VT100.font3: 6x10 *VT100.font4: 7x13 *VT100.font5: 9x15 *VT100.font6: 10x20 XTerm*font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-*-*-*-120-*-*-*-*-iso8859-15 *font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-*-*-*-120-*-*-*-*-iso8859-15 $ + On console, /etc/console-tools/config is responsible for the settings, correct?: Excerpt from /etc/console-tools/config # Turn on numlock by default #LEDS=+num SCREEN_FONT=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc2=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc3=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc4=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc5=lat9w-16 SCREEN_FONT_vc6=lat9w-16 Thanks. I just wonder when the maintainers of console-tools fix #299798 so others don't have to search the mailing lists for this. Strong stuff: #299798 is from March 2005 ... :/ With this change, I now have a euro in the console as well. Great ... :) [ .. ] My boottime.kmap.gz: www.wolfgangpfeiffer.com/boottime.kmap.gz My keymap per se works, except I'd have to add » and « at some stage, On console I don't have « », too .. Or at least I didn't find these chars there .. but on the laptop I don't need them this often. Please let me know if you need to know more Except for my xterm question above, I'm happy. You've helped a lot. Thanks. Welcome .. :) I didn't find the solution myself, IIRC .. :) .. : http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2005/05/msg00204.html Regards Wolfgang -- Wolfgang Pfeiffer: /ICQ: 286585973/ + + + /AIM: crashinglinux/ http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer Key ID: E3037113 http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 05:02:33PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: [...] Denis: Do you by chance know, who works on the PowerPC installation manual? In debian-installer, one selects a *console* layout; only a subset of keymaps from console-data are included because of space constraints. There is code in xserver-xorg.config to transform the selected console keymap into XKB settings. How are these settings selected? Some users performed tests for their hardware, gave their selected console keymap and their desired XKB settings, so that xserver-xorg.config can be updated. We are now very late in the release cycle, I am not sure if this can be fixed, but if you want to try, please hurry up. To me, those XKB settings do not belong to installation manual, but I will be glad to add a README for Mac users into xkb-data if someone can write detailed instructions. I could see that I get documentation for this setting into it. And if it helps calm things down, we could mace the apple-layout the default. In another thread, Wolfgang asked days ago what is the plan for the future. As explained above, testing keymaps of debian-installer would help fixing current bugs. On the XKB front, upstream wants to have a new release in few weeks. Powerpc fixes have already been incorporated, but there is still one major issue we would like to fix, which is to merge all Macintosh layouts into symbols/* files. For instance, Macintosh French layout would become the mac variant of symbols/fr. This way, one could more easily select a Mac layout on a PC keyboard, or vice versa. I will work on this issue this weekend. There is one problem though, a mac variant has already been included into symbols/de. So someone has to review differences between symbols/de(mac) and symbols/macintosh_vndr/de, and explain which layout should be kept, or keep both layouts and provide an alternative name for the 2nd one. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 21:13 +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:15:43AM +, Jörg Sommer wrote:
i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get (starting at AltGr-5)
[]|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable. Also I still wonder
why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
It's a Apple keyboard. Don't use it, if you don't like it.
With logics like this I could say: This is Linux. Go get OSX if you
want an Apple keyboard.
You're missing the point. The macintosh layouts should match what's
physically engraved on the keys of an Apple keyboard as much as
possible. Same for the pc layouts vs. PC keyboards. You should
appreciate the possibility of choosing between these instead of trying
to impose one onto the other.
--
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Libre software enthusiast | Debian, X and DRI developer
Re xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Bonjour Denis, I have downloaded xkb-data 0.8-14 and played with commands such as: setxkbmap -rules xorg -model macintosh -layout jp,ca -variant ,multi -option compose:rwin -option grp:lwin_toggle I am using an iMac with a Apple A1048 keyboard. (see http://charles.plessy.org/mac/A1048.html or http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/images/tn1152_001.gif for something similar in spirit) This is a Japanese keyboard, and the default in Debian seems to make it output japanese syllabic characters (katakanas). While it seems to make sense, I have to say that I have never seen a japanese person inputing japanese that way. I think that it would really make sense to make it output ascii characters by default. Nevertheless, I checked that the input and output were corrsponding, and found the following discrepancies: - The ro (ろ) key (code 211) does not input a JIS underscore when pressed in combination with shift. - The mu (む) key (code 35) outputs \ or | depending wether it is pressed with shift or not, as if it were from keyboard made for the USA. - The comma key of the numeric pad (code 134) does not work at all. - Also, what is printed on the keyboard is hiragana, not katakanas (they have a 1 to 1 correspondance, but their apparance differs, for instance ro and mu are ロ and ム in katakana. - Lastly, the two keys which are the closest to the spacebar, whose official name I do not know but guess to be eigo and kana have no effect. I guess that they are supposed to do something, such as swiching between japanese and ascii characters. The default behaviour of japanese keyboards on most computers running MS-Windows or Mac OSX is to output ascii characters with a qwerty layout a bit different from the one used in the USA. This allows to input translitterated japanese. If you explain me how to activate this (is there a variant?), I can check wether it reproduces well what is written on the keys... This is definitely more important than direct kana input, as it gives acces to slashes, pipes, and other vital symbols under unix. Unfortunately, they are the ones where the USA and japanese keyboards differ... Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy http://charles.plessy.org Wako, Saitama, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi All
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 09:25:44AM +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote:
On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 21:13 +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:15:43AM +, Jörg Sommer wrote:
i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get (starting at AltGr-5)
[]|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable. Also I still wonder
why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
It's a Apple keyboard. Don't use it, if you don't like it.
With logics like this I could say: This is Linux. Go get OSX if you
want an Apple keyboard.
You're missing the point. The macintosh layouts should match what's
physically engraved on the keys of an Apple keyboard as much as
possible.
I agree. But this wasn't the question I was writing about.
Same for the pc layouts vs. PC keyboards. You should
appreciate the possibility of choosing between these instead of trying
to impose one onto the other.
If you try to say: give users different options to set up their
keyboards: Actually I tried to suggest exactly this approach. Just a
few lines later after the part you were quoting. Here's again the
whole section:
---
With logics like this I could say: This is Linux. Go get OSX if you
want an Apple keyboard.
So I'd suggest we try to work it out. Instead of leaving people with
no other choices than either eating what they don't like, or going away
and buy another computer/using another OS.
-
HTH
Best Regards
Wolfgang
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Key ID: E3037113
http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi Wolfgang,
Wolfgang Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:15:43AM +, Jörg Sommer wrote:
i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get (starting at AltGr-5)
[]|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable. Also I still wonder
why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
It's a Apple keyboard. Don't use it, if you don't like it.
With logics like this I could say: This is Linux. Go get OSX if you
want an Apple keyboard.
No. Linux and OS X are software. A keyboard is hardware. It's the same
thing with mice. Don't buy an Apple mouse if you want more than one key.
If I sit in front of a keyboard with an Apple logo, I expect an Apple
keyboard. If I see the @ sign engraved on the L key, I expect I get it
when I press Modifier+L.
Which problems do you have, when you load the pc105 layout? Aren't it work?
Bye, Jörg.
--
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selbst wenn sie närrisch zu ihm spricht.
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi All
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 01:32:06PM +, Jörg Sommer wrote:
Hi Wolfgang,
Wolfgang Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:15:43AM +, Jörg Sommer wrote:
i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get (starting at AltGr-5)
[]|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable. Also I still wonder
why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
It's a Apple keyboard. Don't use it, if you don't like it.
With logics like this I could say: This is Linux. Go get OSX if you
want an Apple keyboard.
No. Linux and OS X are software. A keyboard is hardware. It's the same
thing with mice. Don't buy an Apple mouse if you want more than one key.
Are you sure? .. :) Actually Denis with his various versions of
xkb-data, and the different key-mappings over these last 2 or 3 weeks
is actively proving my idea that a keyboard mostly and by large
parts is actually software, although (when we type) we have the feel
it's not.
But I believe that's a sub-topic (although admittedly a very
interesting one) ...
If I sit in front of a keyboard with an Apple logo, I expect an Apple
keyboard. If I see the @ sign engraved on the L key, I expect I get it
when I press Modifier+L.
No problem. It's probably simply a matter of taste, or one of the
habits we got accustomed to.
Which problems do you have, when you load the pc105 layout? Aren't it work?
Exactly. Currently I've loaded xkb-data 0.8-14, and with that version
as with the previous one I basically can use only 2 models:
powerbook or pc105: pc105 seems broken. With 'powerbook' at least
I find the keys I need.
On a PowerBook5,8:
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -variant nodeadkeys
-option apple:badmap -print | xkbcomp - :0
With this last one-liner I have neither an 'at' sign, nor AltGr, no
Mode_switch, no ISO_Level3_Shift. (Tho I' did not explore the
Alt_L-1-9 keys, as I have shortcuts mapped for them for KDE)
Leaving away the nodeadkeys variant also does not help.
With the pc105 setting:
$ setxkbmap -print
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include macintosh+aliases(qwertz) };
xkb_types { include complete+numpad(mac) };
xkb_compat{ include complete };
xkb_symbols { include
pc+macintosh_vndr/de(nodeadkeys)+inet(apple)+level3(lwin_switch) };
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
};
Where I expect AltGr or Mode_Switch is either nothing or
Kp_Enter. Actually the PC105 choice is more Macintosh-like than
anything I had before.
Choosing the powerbook model helps:
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout de -option apple:badmap
-print | xkbcomp - :0
With the latter I have an ISO_Level3_Shift instead of Kp_Enter left of
the arrow Left key, which helps me get an 'at' on 'L', a bar sign left of
the 'Y' key, etc ... Great ...
$ setxkbmap -print
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include macintosh+aliases(qwertz) };
xkb_types { include complete+numpad(mac) };
xkb_compat{ include complete };
xkb_symbols { include
pc+macintosh_vndr/de(nodeadkeys)+inet(apple)+level3(lwin_switch) };
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
}
Not being sure whether this is normal that I get the same
setxkbmap -print output with different setxkbmap settings
like above.
So I'm editing symbols/macintosh_vndr/de currently ... I will surely
have what I want :) ..
Best Regards
Wolfgang
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Re: Re xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 09:36:07PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
Bonjour Denis,
I have downloaded xkb-data 0.8-14 and played with commands such as:
setxkbmap -rules xorg -model macintosh -layout jp,ca -variant ,multi
-option compose:rwin -option grp:lwin_toggle
Excellent, this is a very good example of what is possible with these
new layouts ;)
But there is one problem though: Japanese and Canadian layouts are the
most complex ones, they had been initially written using 2 groups.
Both have been splitted into 2 variants in X.Org. Try:
$ setxkbmap -model macintosh -layout jp -option -print
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include macintosh+aliases(qwerty) };
xkb_types { include complete+numpad(mac) };
xkb_compat{ include complete+japan};
xkb_symbols { include pc(pc105)+jp(latin)+jp:2+inet(apple) };
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
};
When jp layout is selected, 2 variants are in fact selected: first one
is jp(latin), second one is jp, which defaults to jp(jp106).
As you can imagine, jp(latin) is a slightly modified us version.
It is likely that Japanese people do not use the second group, but
instead an input method engine. With this setup, I believe that
eigo and kana keys can be used to switch between those groups.
I am using an iMac with a Apple A1048 keyboard.
(see http://charles.plessy.org/mac/A1048.html or
http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/images/tn1152_001.gif for
something similar in spirit)
This is a Japanese keyboard, and the default in Debian seems to make it
output japanese syllabic characters (katakanas). While it seems to make
sense, I have to say that I have never seen a japanese person inputing
japanese that way. I think that it would really make sense to make it
output ascii characters by default.
You can then replace -variant ,multi by -variant latin,multi
But I have no idea why jp(jp106) is the default and not jp(latin), this
should certainly be fixed.
Nevertheless, I checked that the input and output were corrsponding, and
found the following discrepancies:
- The ro (ろ) key (code 211) does not input a JIS underscore when
pressed in combination with shift.
- The mu (む) key (code 35) outputs \ or | depending wether it is
pressed with shift or not, as if it were from keyboard made for the
USA.
No idea for these ones :(
- The comma key of the numeric pad (code 134) does not work at all.
There is indeed no definition for this keycode.
- Also, what is printed on the keyboard is hiragana, not katakanas (they
have a 1 to 1 correspondance, but their apparance differs, for
instance ro and mu are ロ and ム in katakana.
It seems that one can switch between hiragana and katakanas, but I do
not know exactly how.
Denis
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 09:25:44AM +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote:
On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 21:13 +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:15:43AM +, Jörg Sommer wrote:
i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get (starting at AltGr-5)
[]|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable. Also I still wonder
why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
It's a Apple keyboard. Don't use it, if you don't like it.
With logics like this I could say: This is Linux. Go get OSX if you
want an Apple keyboard.
You're missing the point. The macintosh layouts should match what's
physically engraved on the keys of an Apple keyboard as much as
possible. Same for the pc layouts vs. PC keyboards. You should
appreciate the possibility of choosing between these instead of trying
to impose one onto the other.
Nobody denies this fact, what is engraved on the key is what has
to be displayed. But most keys have only 1 or 2 symbols engraved
on it, so you have to choose 3rd and 4th levels.
Some people want to have the exact same layout as Mac OS X. This
is indeed an option, but not necessarily a rule. For instance,
the most widely used French PC layout has been designed from
scratch, it has not been copied from Windows.
Please note also that Ben Müller submitted upstream a slightly
different layout, which is supposed to be closer to Mac OS X:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6671
This is the mac variant in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/de.
So you have this variant, the one from symbols/macintosh_vndr/de,
and Wolfgang Pfeiffer proposed other changes. I will not
include these changes for now, it would be better if German
people discuss and reach a consensus about one or two variants.
Denis
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 10:46:49PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
[...]
Which problems do you have, when you load the pc105 layout? Aren't it work?
Exactly. Currently I've loaded xkb-data 0.8-14, and with that version
as with the previous one I basically can use only 2 models:
powerbook or pc105: pc105 seems broken. With 'powerbook' at least
I find the keys I need.
On a PowerBook5,8:
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -variant nodeadkeys
-option apple:badmap -print | xkbcomp - :0
With this last one-liner I have neither an 'at' sign, nor AltGr, no
Mode_switch, no ISO_Level3_Shift. (Tho I' did not explore the
Alt_L-1-9 keys, as I have shortcuts mapped for them for KDE)
Leaving away the nodeadkeys variant also does not help.
With the pc105 setting:
$ setxkbmap -print
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include macintosh+aliases(qwertz) };
xkb_types { include complete+numpad(mac) };
xkb_compat{ include complete };
xkb_symbols { include
pc+macintosh_vndr/de(nodeadkeys)+inet(apple)+level3(lwin_switch) };
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
};
I do not know exactly what setxkbmap -print displays. Anyway your
command line above misses an option to have ISO_Level3_Shift, since it
is Right Alt by default. Try with
-option lv3:lwin_switch
for instance.
The nodeadkeys variant works as expected here.
Denis
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Jörg Sommer wrote: If I sit in front of a keyboard with an Apple logo, I expect an Apple keyboard. If I see the @ sign engraved on the L key, I expect I get it when I press Modifier+L. That's laudable, and echoes my own expectations with respect to the Alt+click (right click) when using X on my (1-button mouse) Powerbook. Is this ever going to happen, or will I forever be limited to an external 2/3-button USB mouse? /me waits with bated breath... -- 犬 Chris Burdess They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi Denis
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 11:41:23PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 10:46:49PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
[ .. ]
On a PowerBook5,8:
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -variant nodeadkeys
-option apple:badmap -print | xkbcomp - :0
With this last one-liner I have neither an 'at' sign, nor AltGr, no
Mode_switch, no ISO_Level3_Shift. (Tho I' did not explore the
Alt_L-1-9 keys, as I have shortcuts mapped for them for KDE)
Leaving away the nodeadkeys variant also does not help.
With the pc105 setting:
$ setxkbmap -print
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include macintosh+aliases(qwertz) };
xkb_types { include complete+numpad(mac) };
xkb_compat{ include complete };
xkb_symbols { include
pc+macintosh_vndr/de(nodeadkeys)+inet(apple)+level3(lwin_switch) };
xkb_geometry { include macintosh(macintosh) };
};
I do not know exactly what setxkbmap -print displays. Anyway your
command line above misses an option to have ISO_Level3_Shift, since it
is Right Alt by default. Try with
-option lv3:lwin_switch
for instance.
This helps:
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -option apple:badmap
-option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0
which maps keycode 115, the left Apple key, to ISO_Level3_Shift:
And I have @ | { [ ] } « »
That one seems fine, too:
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model pc105 -layout de -variant nodeadkeys
-option apple:badmap -option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0
results like above:
keycode 115 to ISO_Level3_Shift
Thanks ... :)
The nodeadkeys variant works as expected here.
Denis
Best Regards
Wolfgang
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi, On 9/23/06, Denis Barbier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I just uploaded xkb-data 0.8-13 into unstable, I see some warnings when running startx: The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: Warning: Multiple names for keycode 182 Using FK13, ignoring K5D Warning: Key name FK13 assigned to multiple keys Using 182, ignoring 118 Warning: Multiple names for keycode 183 Using FK14, ignoring K5E Warning: Key name FK14 assigned to multiple keys Using 183, ignoring 119 Warning: Multiple names for keycode 184 Using FK15, ignoring K5F Warning: Key name FK15 assigned to multiple keys Using 184, ignoring 120 Warning: Multiple names for keycode 157 Using KPEQ, ignoring K59 Warning: Key name KPEQ assigned to multiple keys Using 157, ignoring 126 expected keysym, got XF86AudioEject: line 2233 of inet Warning: Type ONE_LEVEL has 1 levels, but RALT has 2 symbols Ignoring extra symbols Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server - Best regards, Bin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:15:43AM +, Jörg Sommer wrote:
Hallo Helge,
Helge Kreutzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So the following still needs to be done for a german ibook keyboard:
1. When pressing the key between ß? and backspace, I still get
nothing, while I expect ' as printed on the key. With the shift
modifier it works. This is keycode 21.
It's a dead key. Press a 'e' after it and you get é. The ' is definitive
the wrong character!
2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the
PC style version,
Then configure a PC style keyboard. Use pc105 instead of macintosh.
Problem so far: I'm happy with what I have with the latest xkb-data
here .. :)
I always get either a wonderful, fully fledged PC style keyboard, but
I never managed to get a, for me rather useless, Macintosh style
keyboard, with a Kp_Enter key and so on ..
Colin: Is it impossible with xkb-data 0.8-13 to set up a typical
Macintosh keyboard on Powerbooks, with Jobs' mappings for \ } ] [ {,
and KP_Enter left of the Arrow_Left key etc. ?
i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get (starting at AltGr-5)
[]|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable. Also I still wonder
why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
It's a Apple keyboard. Don't use it, if you don't like it.
With logics like this I could say: This is Linux. Go get OSX if you
want an Apple keyboard.
So I'd suggest we try to work it out. Instead of leaving people with
no other choices than either eating what they don't like, or going away
and buy another computer/using another OS.
Colin: Is there anything already decided in how the future keyboard
layouts on xkb-data, for Apple machines, will look like: PC-style, or
Apple style, or options for both of them?
Thanks in anticipation ..
Best Regards
Wolfgang
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Wed, Sep 27, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: Colin: Is there anything already decided in how the future keyboard layouts on xkb-data, for Apple machines, will look like: PC-style, or Apple style, or options for both of them? macintosh means and does MacOS mapping. I made it that way back in 2000. Dont change it. If you want a PC map, use a PC map. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 04:00:52PM +0200, Bin Zhang wrote: Hi, On 9/23/06, Denis Barbier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I just uploaded xkb-data 0.8-13 into unstable, I see some warnings when running startx: The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: Warning: Multiple names for keycode 182 Using FK13, ignoring K5D Warning: Key name FK13 assigned to multiple keys Using 182, ignoring 118 [...] You are right, we could try now to investigate this issue. Those keys are redefined in /usr/share/X11/xkb/keycodes/macintosh, but I do not know why. Normally, FK13 is function key nr. 13, so if you have such a key on your keyboard, you can run xev and check its keycode. It seems that it is 182, whereas it is 118 on PC keyboards, which is why it is redefined. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:13:51PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: Problem so far: I'm happy with what I have with the latest xkb-data here .. :) That is, xkb-data_0.8-13_all.deb, with the patch (mac-de.diff) applied from Colin: http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/09/msg00305.html Best Regards Wolfgang -- Wolfgang Pfeiffer: /ICQ: 286585973/ + + + /AIM: crashinglinux/ http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer Key ID: E3037113 http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On 9/27/06, Denis Barbier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 04:00:52PM +0200, Bin Zhang wrote: Hi, On 9/23/06, Denis Barbier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I just uploaded xkb-data 0.8-13 into unstable, I see some warnings when running startx: The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: Warning: Multiple names for keycode 182 Using FK13, ignoring K5D Warning: Key name FK13 assigned to multiple keys Using 182, ignoring 118 [...] You are right, we could try now to investigate this issue. Those keys are redefined in /usr/share/X11/xkb/keycodes/macintosh, but I do not know why. Normally, FK13 is function key nr. 13, so if you have such a key on your keyboard, you can run xev and check its keycode. It seems that it is 182, whereas it is 118 on PC keyboards, which is why it is redefined. There are only F1 to F12 on my ibook. Bin Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:13:51PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
Problem so far: I'm happy with what I have with the latest xkb-data
here .. :)
I always get either a wonderful, fully fledged PC style keyboard, but
I never managed to get a, for me rather useless, Macintosh style
keyboard, with a Kp_Enter key and so on ..
Colin:
^
Should say: Denis.
In that mail, and at least in the one in this thread, from a few hours
ago, sent at:
Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:48:02 +0200
My apologies, Colin, and everyone for the confusion ...
Best Regards
Wolfgang
Is it impossible with xkb-data 0.8-13 to set up a typical
Macintosh keyboard on Powerbooks, with Jobs' mappings for \ } ] [ {,
and KP_Enter left of the Arrow_Left key etc. ?
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Sat, 2006-09-23 at 02:19 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: Please, test it, send feedback if something does not work or can be improved, write documentation for other powerpc users that could be included in xkb-data, etc. Thanks for your help. I don't really know if it's a xkb or a kernel problem, but here the numeric keypad don't really work. I guess on osx Fn+u gives a 4, but it doesn't here. If i numlock using Fn+F6, the led under F6 lights, but the numeric keypad isn't activated. Is this kernel land or userland ? -- Yves-Alexis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi Denis
On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 11:34:14PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
On Sat, Sep 23, 2006 at 03:52:11PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
So the following still needs to be done for a german ibook keyboard:
1. When pressing the key between ß? and backspace, I still get
nothing, while I expect ' as printed on the key. With the shift
modifier it works. This is keycode 21.
It works for me, please try with xev:
KeyRelease event, serial 31, synthetic NO, window 0x1e1,
root 0x135, subw 0x0, time 3784639752, (874,-79), root:(886,584),
state 0x0, keycode 21 (keysym 0xb4, acute), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 2 bytes: (c2 b4) ?
2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the
PC style version, i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get
(starting at AltGr-5) []|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable.
Also I still wonder why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
I am happy that you kept AltGr-Y and AltGr-X as « and ».
Can you please test this patch, and if possible discuss improvements
with other German Mac users?
Your patch works fine, it does not crash anything: I have an 'at' on
'Q' :)
setxkbmap -option -option apple:badmap -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout de
-print | xkbcomp - :0
With the latter command I have what I want:
If I press now (xev language) Alt_L + dead_acute and then e, I
get é, which is fine for me ...
Shift_L + Alt_L + dead_acute, then a gives à.
But: I didn't see dead_acute on any char if I add variant nodeadkeys:
$ setxkbmap -option -option apple:badmap -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout
de -variant nodeadkeys -print | xkbcomp - :0
Oh yes: { [ ] } \ are fine now ... :)
HTH
Thanks a lot, Colin: With that version of xkb-data I'd switch off
~/.xmodmap ... :)
Best Regards
Wolfgang
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 12:41:44PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
Hi Denis
On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 11:34:14PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
Can you please test this patch, and if possible discuss improvements
with other German Mac users?
What I wrote below is valid for a DE keyboard on a Powerbook 5,8 ..
Sorry for the overhead ..
Best Regards
Wolfgang
Your patch works fine, it does not crash anything: I have an 'at' on
'Q' :)
setxkbmap -option -option apple:badmap -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout
de -print | xkbcomp - :0
With the latter command I have what I want:
If I press now (xev language) Alt_L + dead_acute and then e, I
get é, which is fine for me ...
Shift_L + Alt_L + dead_acute, then a gives à.
But: I didn't see dead_acute on any char if I add variant nodeadkeys:
$ setxkbmap -option -option apple:badmap -rules xorg -model powerbook
-layout de -variant nodeadkeys -print | xkbcomp - :0
Oh yes: { [ ] } \ are fine now ... :)
HTH
Thanks a lot, Colin: With that version of xkb-data I'd switch off
~/.xmodmap ... :)
Best Regards
Wolfgang
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Mon, 2006-09-25 at 11:38 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: On Sat, 2006-09-23 at 02:19 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: Please, test it, send feedback if something does not work or can be improved, write documentation for other powerpc users that could be included in xkb-data, etc. Thanks for your help. I don't really know if it's a xkb or a kernel problem, but here the numeric keypad don't really work. I guess on osx Fn+u gives a 4, but it doesn't here. If i numlock using Fn+F6, the led under F6 lights, but the numeric keypad isn't activated. Is this kernel land or userland ? Most likely kernel. Its internal handling of the fn key (and num lock?) seems incomplete. -- Earthling Michel Dänzer | http://tungstengraphics.com Libre software enthusiast | Debian, X and DRI developer
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Mon, 2006-09-25 at 15:21 +0200, Djoume SALVETTI wrote: Le lun 25 sep 2006 11:38:44 GMT Yves-Alexis Perez [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : I don't really know if it's a xkb or a kernel problem, but here the numeric keypad don't really work. I guess on osx Fn+u gives a 4, but it doesn't here. If i numlock using Fn+F6, the led under F6 lights, but the numeric keypad isn't activated. Numeric keypad works fine here (French Powerbook G4 12), debian unstable 2.6.17-2-powerpc. You probably have an ADB keyboard which handles the fn key in hardware. -- Earthling Michel Dänzer | http://tungstengraphics.com Libre software enthusiast | Debian, X and DRI developer
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Le lun 25 sep 2006 11:38:44 GMT Yves-Alexis Perez [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : I don't really know if it's a xkb or a kernel problem, but here the numeric keypad don't really work. I guess on osx Fn+u gives a 4, but it doesn't here. If i numlock using Fn+F6, the led under F6 lights, but the numeric keypad isn't activated. Numeric keypad works fine here (French Powerbook G4 12), debian unstable 2.6.17-2-powerpc. -- Djoume SALVETTI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hallo Helge,
Helge Kreutzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So the following still needs to be done for a german ibook keyboard:
1. When pressing the key between ß? and backspace, I still get
nothing, while I expect ' as printed on the key. With the shift
modifier it works. This is keycode 21.
It's a dead key. Press a 'e' after it and you get é. The ' is definitive
the wrong character!
2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the
PC style version,
Then configure a PC style keyboard. Use pc105 instead of macintosh.
i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get (starting at AltGr-5)
[]|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable. Also I still wonder
why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
It's a Apple keyboard. Don't use it, if you don't like it.
Bye, Jörg.
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hallo Wolfgang,
Wolfgang Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, Sep 23, 2006 at 03:52:11PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
1. When pressing the key between ß? and backspace, I still get
nothing, while I expect ' as printed on the key. With the shift
modifier it works. This is keycode 21.
2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the
PC style version, i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\
My vote for this. Definitely. :)
Use pc105 instead of macintosh. It's an Apple keyboard not a PC keyboard.
I vote for the Apple layout.
while I get (starting at AltGr-5) []|{}}\. This behaviour should
be switchable. Also I still wonder why } is on AltGr-9 *and*
AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
Same here, on a PowerBook5.8: ISO_Level3_Shift + Q = «
At me, the sign @ is engraved on the L key not on the Q key. Why do you
expect a PC keyboard layout when you use an Apple keyboard?
Bye, Jörg.
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Le sam 23 sep 2006 16:42:27 GMT Bin Zhang [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : I just uploaded xkb-data 0.8-13 into unstable, it is available at http://people.debian.org/~barbier/tmp/ Thanks. It works fine on my ibook G4 1.2Ghz 12 french keyboard. Thanks for your work Denis, It works fine here also on my Powerbook G4 12 french keyboard, with : Section InputDevice Identifier Generic Keyboard Driver kbd Option CoreKeyboard Option XkbRules xorg Option XkbModel macintosh Option XkbLayout fr Option XkbOptions lv3:lwin_switch EndSection Before that I was using xmodmap to affect Mode_switch to Apple Key. The only thing I'm missing now is the ability to delete characters after the cursor (SUPPR) with Mode_switch+Backspace. Is there anybody with a french apple keyboard who know how to delete the character after the cursor? Regards. -- Djoume SALVETTI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 03:30:04PM +0200, Djoume SALVETTI wrote: Is there anybody with a french apple keyboard who know how to delete the character after the cursor? Does fn + backspace works? -- Nekral -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Le dim 24 sep 2006 18:44:22 GMT Nicolas François [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Is there anybody with a french apple keyboard who know how to delete the character after the cursor? Does fn + backspace works? Yes, thanks, I'll use that. -- Djoume SALVETTI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Sat, Sep 23, 2006 at 04:42:27PM +0200, Bin Zhang wrote:
Hi,
On 9/23/06, Denis Barbier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I just uploaded xkb-data 0.8-13 into unstable, it
is available at http://people.debian.org/~barbier/tmp/
Thanks. It works fine on my ibook G4 1.2Ghz 12 french keyboard.
Some remarks about french ibook keyboard:
1) xorg.conf
Section InputDevice
Identifier Generic Keyboard
Driver kbd
Option CoreKeyboard
Option XkbRules xorg
Option XkbModel macintosh
#Option XkbModel ibook
Option XkbLayout fr
#Option XkbOptionslv3:lwin_switch
EndSection
=== No accesses to the special characters (~ [ ] { } | ...).
The following for a PowerBook G4 (5,8).
Picture of the keyboard where all this happens:
http://www.geocities.com/wolfgangpfeiffer/keyboard.PBook.g4-5.8.JPG
$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
cpu : 7447A, altivec supported
clock : 833.333000MHz
revision: 0.5 (pvr 8003 0105)
bogomips: 16.57
timebase: 832
platform: PowerMac
machine : PowerBook5,8
motherboard : PowerBook5,8 MacRISC3 Power Macintosh
detected as : 287 (PowerBook G4 15)
pmac flags : 0019
L2 cache: 512K unified
pmac-generation : NewWorld
I didn't install the package. Instead I used again the option of
downloading the package, unpacking it and, without installing it, then
configure the keyboard with a simple CLI one-liner:
$ dpkg -x /home/shorty/downloads/xkb-data_0.8-13_all.deb .
$ cd usr/share/X11/xkb/
With
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model macintosh -layout de -variant nodeadkeys
-print | xkbcomp - :0
I have a 2nd ENTER key .. (kp-enter) .. I don't find any ~ [ ] { } | @ keys
...
The (right side of the SHIFT key) and ^° (left of the '1' key)
keys are still swapped ...
Section InputDevice
Identifier Generic Keyboard
Driver kbd
Option CoreKeyboard
Option XkbRules xorg
#Option XkbModel macintosh
Option XkbModel ibook
Option XkbLayout fr
#Option XkbOptionslv3:lwin_switch
EndSection
=== Access to the special characters by the KP_Enter key.
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout de -variant nodeadkeys
-print | xkbcomp - :0
This one is fine: The 2nd ENTER is gone now and becomes a
ISO_Level3_Shift (xev says that), left of the arrow 'LEFT' key. I find
the ~ @ \ } { | ] [ chars ...
Nice ... but the (right side of the SHIFT key) and ^° (left of the
'1' key) keys are still swapped ...
This latter set-up could become my favorite one. Somehow .. provided the
swapped-keys issue could be changed ... :)
Section InputDevice
Identifier Generic Keyboard
Driver kbd
Option CoreKeyboard
Option XkbRules xorg
Option XkbModel macintosh
#Option XkbModel ibook
Option XkbLayout fr
Option XkbOptionslv3:lwin_switch
EndSection
=== Access to the special characters by the Apple key.
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model macintosh -layout de -variant nodeadkeys
-option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0
I can find @ | ] [ } { ~ via some (xev says )ISO_Level3_Shift, which
actually is the Apple key here, left of the SPACE key
And I have a 2nd ENTER (Mac-like?) KP_Enter left of the arrow 'LEFT' key
The (right side of the SHIFT key) and ^° (left of the '1' key)
keys are still swapped ...
Section InputDevice
Identifier Generic Keyboard
Driver kbd
Option CoreKeyboard
Option XkbRules xorg
#Option XkbModel macintosh
Option XkbModel ibook
Option XkbLayout fr
Option XkbOptionslv3:lwin_switch
EndSection
=== Access to the special characters by the Apple key or KP_Enter key.
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout de -variant nodeadkeys
-option lv3:lwin_switch -print | xkbcomp - :0
KP_ENTER gone, @~}{|][ available via Apple and former KP_ENTER,
which are both now (xev:) ISO_Level3_Shift),
The (right side of the SHIFT key) and ^° (left of the
'1' key) keys are still swapped ...
HTH
Best Regards,
--
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http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer
Key ID: E3037113
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 10:54:22PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
[...]
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout de -variant nodeadkeys
-print | xkbcomp - :0
This one is fine: The 2nd ENTER is gone now and becomes a
ISO_Level3_Shift (xev says that), left of the arrow 'LEFT' key. I find
the ~ @ \ } { | ] [ chars ...
Nice ... but the (right side of the SHIFT key) and ^° (left of the
'1' key) keys are still swapped ...
This latter set-up could become my favorite one. Somehow .. provided the
swapped-keys issue could be changed ... :)
Yes, it is quite difficult to determine which keyboards have these keys
swapped, so an option was added to fix it manually, try adding
-option apple:badmap
Denis
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Sat, Sep 23, 2006 at 03:52:11PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
So the following still needs to be done for a german ibook keyboard:
1. When pressing the key between ß? and backspace, I still get
nothing, while I expect ' as printed on the key. With the shift
modifier it works. This is keycode 21.
It works for me, please try with xev:
KeyRelease event, serial 31, synthetic NO, window 0x1e1,
root 0x135, subw 0x0, time 3784639752, (874,-79), root:(886,584),
state 0x0, keycode 21 (keysym 0xb4, acute), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 2 bytes: (c2 b4) ´
2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the
PC style version, i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get
(starting at AltGr-5) []|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable.
Also I still wonder why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
I am happy that you kept AltGr-Y and AltGr-X as « and ».
Can you please test this patch, and if possible discuss improvements
with other German Mac users?
Also several characters are on several positions, e.g. `, ~, |, «, ß,
}. As of now, I don't see this as a problem, but maybe a general
consensus should be found regarding the AltGr-mapping.
This is indeed usually not a problem.
Denis
Index: xkb-data/symbols/macintosh_vndr/de
===
--- xkb-data.orig/symbols/macintosh_vndr/de
+++ xkb-data/symbols/macintosh_vndr/de
@@ -18,16 +18,16 @@
key AE02 { [ 2,quotedbl, twosuperior
] };
key AE03 { [ 3,section, threesuperior,sterling
] };
key AE04 { [ 4,dollar, onequarter,currency
] };
-key AE05 { [ 5,percent, bracketleft
] };
-key AE06 { [ 6,ampersand, bracketright
] };
-key AE07 { [ 7,slash,bar,backslash
] };
-key AE08 { [ 8,parenleft, braceleft,asciitilde
] };
-key AE09 { [ 9,parenright, braceright
] };
+key AE05 { [ 5,percent, onehalf
] };
+key AE06 { [ 6,ampersand, notsign ]
};
+key AE07 { [ 7,slash, braceleft, seveneighths
] };
+key AE08 { [ 8,parenleft, bracketleft, trademark
] };
+key AE09 { [ 9,parenright, bracketright, plusminus
] };
key AE10 { [ 0,equal, braceright, degree
] };
key AE11 { [ssharp,question, backslash, questiondown
] };
key AE12 { [ dead_acute, dead_grave, dead_cedilla
] };
-key AD01 { [ q,Q, guillemotleft,guillemotright ]
};
+key AD01 { [ q,Q, at ]
};
key AD03 { [ e,E, EuroSign ]
};
key AD04 { [ r,R, registered ]
};
key AD05 { [ t,T ] };
@@ -46,7 +46,8 @@
key AC11 { [ adiaeresis, Adiaeresis, dead_circumflex
] };
key LSGT { [ less,greater,bar
] };
-key AB01 { [ y,Y, guillemotleft,less ]
};
+key AB01 { [ y,Y, guillemotright, less ] };
+key AB02 { [ x,X, guillemotleft,greater ] };
key AB06 { [ n,N, asciitilde ]
};
key AB07 { [ m,M, mu ]
};
key AB08 { [ comma,semicolon ] };
Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Sat, Sep 23, 2006 at 03:52:11PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
1. When pressing the key between ß? and backspace, I still get
nothing, while I expect ' as printed on the key. With the shift
modifier it works. This is keycode 21.
2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the
PC style version, i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\
My vote for this. Definitely. :)
while I get (starting at AltGr-5) []|{}}\. This behaviour should
be switchable. Also I still wonder why } is on AltGr-9 *and*
AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
Same here, on a PowerBook5.8: ISO_Level3_Shift + Q = «
But I have the @ on the L key, which actually *is* how this key is
marked on the keyboard proper .. :)
You see this on this picture of a PB5,8:
www.wolfgangpfeiffer.com/keyboard.PBook.g4-5.8.JPG
I'm not sure on whether it might become difficult to find a consensus
at times for issues like this: It seems Apple produced for (nearly ?)
every language another heavily varied version. E.g. you can compare the DE
variant bottom keys row (Picture above) with French (?) ones here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-powerpc@lists.debian.org/msg56274.html
Best Regards
Wolfgang
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http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer
Key ID: E3037113
http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 11:19:34PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 10:54:22PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
[...]
setxkbmap -option -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout de -variant
nodeadkeys -print | xkbcomp - :0
This one is fine: The 2nd ENTER is gone now and becomes a
ISO_Level3_Shift (xev says that), left of the arrow 'LEFT' key. I find
the ~ @ \ } { | ] [ chars ...
Nice ... but the (right side of the SHIFT key) and ^° (left of the
'1' key) keys are still swapped ...
This latter set-up could become my favorite one. Somehow .. provided the
swapped-keys issue could be changed ... :)
Yes, it is quite difficult to determine which keyboards have these keys
swapped, so an option was added to fix it manually, try adding
-option apple:badmap
Bingo! ... :)
$ setxkbmap -option -option apple:badmap -rules xorg -model powerbook -layout
de -variant nodeadkeys -print | xkbcomp - :0
does solve this issue Thanks .. :)
Best Regards
Wolfgang
--
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http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer
Key ID: E3037113
http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113fingerprint=on
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hello,
On Sat, Sep 23, 2006 at 02:19:42AM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
I just uploaded xkb-data 0.8-13 into unstable, it
is available at http://people.debian.org/~barbier/tmp/
and will reach mirrors in almost a day.
I took it from your directory, as even ftp.debian.org does not have it
(yet).
This version is very similar to 0.8-12exp4, I believe
that it is pretty solid, but needs more polishing.
We can discuss to change default settings and broken
layouts, but keep in mind that since most layouts
were unusable, people now have different habits and
we cannot make everybody happy with default settings.
Well, no change for me, except that it does not crash X anymore :-))
So the following still needs to be done for a german ibook keyboard:
1. When pressing the key between ß? and backspace, I still get
nothing, while I expect ' as printed on the key. With the shift
modifier it works. This is keycode 21.
2. The AltGr-Bracket sequence is still wrong, i.e. I would like the
PC style version, i.e. (starting at AltGR-7) {[]}\ while I get
(starting at AltGr-5) []|{}}\. This behaviour should be switchable.
Also I still wonder why } is on AltGr-9 *and* AltGr-0.
3. AltGr-Q still produces « and not @
I am happy that you kept AltGr-Y and AltGr-X as « and ».
Also several characters are on several positions, e.g. `, ~, |, «, ß,
}. As of now, I don't see this as a problem, but maybe a general
consensus should be found regarding the AltGr-mapping.
Please, test it, send feedback if something does not
work or can be improved, write documentation for other
powerpc users that could be included in xkb-data, etc.
Please let me know if you need more/other feedback.
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for your efforts cleaning this up.
Greetings
Helge
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Re: xkb-data with support for Mac keyboards into unstable
Hi,
On 9/23/06, Denis Barbier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I just uploaded xkb-data 0.8-13 into unstable, it
is available at http://people.debian.org/~barbier/tmp/
Thanks. It works fine on my ibook G4 1.2Ghz 12 french keyboard.
Some remarks about french ibook keyboard:
1) xorg.conf
Section InputDevice
Identifier Generic Keyboard
Driver kbd
Option CoreKeyboard
Option XkbRules xorg
Option XkbModel macintosh
#Option XkbModel ibook
Option XkbLayout fr
#Option XkbOptionslv3:lwin_switch
EndSection
=== No accesses to the special characters (~ [ ] { } | ...).
Section InputDevice
Identifier Generic Keyboard
Driver kbd
Option CoreKeyboard
Option XkbRules xorg
#Option XkbModel macintosh
Option XkbModel ibook
Option XkbLayout fr
#Option XkbOptionslv3:lwin_switch
EndSection
=== Access to the special characters by the KP_Enter key.
Section InputDevice
Identifier Generic Keyboard
Driver kbd
Option CoreKeyboard
Option XkbRules xorg
Option XkbModel macintosh
#Option XkbModel ibook
Option XkbLayout fr
Option XkbOptionslv3:lwin_switch
EndSection
=== Access to the special characters by the Apple key.
Section InputDevice
Identifier Generic Keyboard
Driver kbd
Option CoreKeyboard
Option XkbRules xorg
#Option XkbModel macintosh
Option XkbModel ibook
Option XkbLayout fr
Option XkbOptionslv3:lwin_switch
EndSection
=== Access to the special characters by the Apple key or KP_Enter key.
2) package console-data
I use mac-fr-ext (/usr/share/keymaps/mac/mac-fr-ext.kmap.gz) from
package console-data, which enables me to switch to X by ctrl + Apple
+ F7 and to write special characters using alt/option key in a
console.
With the xkb-data's default setting, I switch to console by ctrl +
alt/option + Fx, and write special characters with Apple or KP_Enter
key.
I have no preference among these two default settings.
Best regards,
Bin
and will reach mirrors in almost a day.
This version is very similar to 0.8-12exp4, I believe
that it is pretty solid, but needs more polishing.
We can discuss to change default settings and broken
layouts, but keep in mind that since most layouts
were unusable, people now have different habits and
we cannot make everybody happy with default settings.
Please, test it, send feedback if something does not
work or can be improved, write documentation for other
powerpc users that could be included in xkb-data, etc.
Thanks for your help.
Denis
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