Skolelinux and the Debian Labs idea
The Skolelinux folks are working on a Debian based distribution for schools. The project started in Norway, but people in other countries got interested and have become involved in the project as well. Everything Skolelinux does is being integrated into Debian, they are working especially hard on making debian-installer a functional installer. Skolelinux is very successful in Norway and they have recently received a fair amount of money, which they can use to fund development for the next two years. During this time, they will try to find other sources of income in order to become self-sustained. They are currently in the process of setting up a non-profit foundation and have approached me and some SPI members to discuss the name of this foundation. Given their close relationship to Debian, they wanted permission to call the foundation Debian Foundation Norway. This would increase the visibility of the Debian name, and make it more visible that Skolelinux is based on Debian. I like what Skolelinux does and, knowing the people involved in the project, I'd have no problem per se of them using the Debian name. However, I hold the belief that Debian should not pay developers. Don't misunderstand this statement, I think it's great if people are paid to work on Debian, and I am actually working with organizations which are trying to apply for funding to do exactly this. HP pays some people to do Debian work, as does Progeny, the German company credativ and many others. I think this is a great contribution to Debian. However, I believe that Debian should not pay developers. By Debian I mean the project as a whole or any of its organizations (such as SPI). Debian paying developers might lead to many problems. The project paying some developers while others work on it in their spare time is not fair, and there is the big problem of selecting who to hire. This can cause great animosity and have bad effects on the motivation of developers. These are only some of the points that I have included in a lengthy mail which I sent to the SPI board and the Skolelinux folks a while back. I have now forwarded this message to spi-private [1] and debian-email [2]. If you are interested in reading my concerns about Debian paying developers, please refer to this message [3]. It's quite unfortunate that they cannot use the Debian name because of this reason since the Skolelinux project does an excellent job and could generate good publicity for Debian when they emphasize their relationship to Debian through their name. There are many good Debian based projects out there and many users are not aware that what they use is actually based on Debian (KNOPPIX is a good example for this). So I tried very hard to come up with a compromise and in the end had an idea which I think offers a good balance. What I suggest is that certain organizations should be allowed to use the name Debian Labs in their name. Hence, Skolelinux could create its foundation with the name Skolelinux Debian Labs [4]. This would clearly show that a) they are doing Debian related work and b) they are not Debian itself. We could create a Debian Labs brand and publicize what it means for an organization to carry that name. Since we own the Debian trademark, we can control who is allowed to use the Debian Labs brand. We have to develop a set of guidelines for this. So in some sense Debian has some control over what those organizations do. On the other hand, they are largely autonomous of Debian and can do with their money whatever they want -- that way, Debian wouldn't need to decide who to hire, etc, and could avoid the problems described in the mail mentioned above. I would like to ask for comments on this idea. Are people comfortable with organizations calling themselves foo Debian Labs assuming that they are doing Debian related work and generally conform to a set of guidelines (which are yet to be developed). Also, is there anyone interested in helping develop these guidelines? Your comments are much appreciated. [1] http://lists.spi-inc.org/cgi-bin/private/spi-private/ Anyone who has made a contribution to the Free Software community can become a Contributing member of SPI and will get subscribed to spi-private (see http://members.spi-inc.org/). (If you don't want to go through this, send me a mail and I'll forward you a copy.) [2] master.debian.org:~debian/archive/debian-email/debian-email-200309 [3] Note that I'm talking about Debian hiring developers. There seems to be general consensus among many Free Software projects that paying other people, such as accountants (a skill which is not abundant in the Free Software community) is okay. [4] For various reasons, they don't want the Skolelinux name in their name, but that's not relevant to this discussion now. -- Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Skolelinux and the Debian Labs idea
Le Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 01:16:28AM +1000, Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader écrivait: an idea which I think offers a good balance. What I suggest is that certain organizations should be allowed to use the name Debian Labs in their name. Hence, Skolelinux could create its foundation with the name Skolelinux Debian Labs [4]. This would clearly show that a) they are doing Debian related work and b) they are not Debian itself. I like this idea. The similarity with RedHat Labs doesn't hurt imho. I would like to ask for comments on this idea. Are people comfortable with organizations calling themselves foo Debian Labs assuming that they are doing Debian related work and generally conform to a set of guidelines (which are yet to be developed). Yes, it looks like something doable. Also, is there anyone interested in helping develop these guidelines? I'm not interested in doing it, but I'm interested in it and would probably comment on anything that comes out of it. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com Earn money with free software: http://www.geniustrader.org
Re: Skolelinux and the Debian Labs idea
Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader, 2003-09-16 17:20:18 +0200 : [...] I would like to ask for comments on this idea. Are people comfortable with organizations calling themselves foo Debian Labs assuming that they are doing Debian related work and generally conform to a set of guidelines (which are yet to be developed). Also, is there anyone interested in helping develop these guidelines? I like the idea, but I could understand if people were still a bit uncomfortable with it. I myself am not quite sure I'd like such a prominent place for the word Debian (but I haven't thought really deeply about that yet). Just a quick idea for them (us?): these Labs could be called something like foo D-Labs (which would call for a footnote explaining what the D stands for, hence giving us more room for publicity than just the Debian in the name). Or, equally straight-from-my-imagination-without-checking-brain, foo Swirl Factory or something around these lines. Again, a footnote would be called for. Just suggestions for nitpickers, obviously. The basic idea appeals very much to me. Roland. -- Roland Mas C c ee lm re q j l a l l iè e . -- Signatures à collectionner, série n°1, partie 3/3.
Re: Skolelinux and the Debian Labs idea
Hi,
Roland Mas wrote:
I myself am not quite sure I'd like such a
prominent place for the word Debian (but I haven't thought really
deeply about that yet).
Neither have I, much, but I _do_ like the prominence of Debian.
IMHO the name Something Debian Labs, with a footnote that Debian is
a trademark of SPI and that SDL is an independent organization / part of
something-else, would work very well.
--
Matthias Urlichs | {M:U} IT Design @ m-u-it.de | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: The quote was selected randomly. Really. | http://smurf.noris.de
- -
:copy protection: n. A class of methods for preventing incompetent
pirates from stealing software and legitimate customers from using it.
Considered silly.
pgp4uK2rtouNp.pgp
Description: signature
Re: Skolelinux and the Debian Labs idea
Martin Michlmayr wrote: What I suggest is that certain organizations should be allowed to use the name Debian Labs in their name. Hence, Skolelinux could create its foundation with the name Skolelinux Debian Labs [4]. Sounds good to me. - Jim Van Zandt
Re: [Spi-private] [leader@debian.org: Re: The name of a foundation for Skolelinux/Debian]
Uh, this is a bit off-topic, sorry: On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 01:50:18AM +1000, the DPL wrote [This is from Petter Reinholdtsen:] Martin was skeptical I wanted to explain what this statement means in more detail; [...] However, I don't think that Debian should pay programmers. seconded. [...] People say KNOPPIX is so great, but Debian just sucks without being aware that KNOPPIX is in fact based on Debian. Did somebody asked/lobbied Klaus Knopper to perhaps add a 'Powered by Debian' button/image to the boot-screen/background image/boot messages? I think Klaus has sometimes mixed feelings when it comes to Debian as an organization and stuff, but if approached in a diplomatic way, I believe he might add it. That might give us some more (and rightfully) publicity. I could probably meet him during Linux World Expo in Frankfurt in late October/early November (if I've finished my exams by that time), so I could ask him personally, if that helps. Michael -- prep.ai.mit.edu is like the in-addr.arpa domain. They will still have these two on the starship Enterprise. -- Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Re: [Spi-private] [leader@debian.org: Re: The name of a foundation for Skolelinux/Debian]
* Michael Banck [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003-09-16 21:21]: Did somebody asked/lobbied Klaus Knopper to perhaps add a 'Powered by Debian' button/image to the boot-screen/background image/boot messages? I could probably meet him during Linux World Expo in Frankfurt in late October/early November (if I've finished my exams by that time), so I could ask him personally, if that helps. Sure, sounds good. -- Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED]
