Re: Proposed transition plan for non-free and call for help
On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 03:43:47PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote: On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 11:38:47PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote: I suspect some of our users might not want to use packages from a less trusted source. I would have concerns myself. Of course, and this was indeed one the prime design requirements. Do you feel your concerns are adequately addressed? No. You only proposed to start with the debian-keyring, and did not promise not to diverge from it in the future. Debian has an NM procedure and team which I've grown to trust, but an NM-for-non-free.org process would have to gain its own trust. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a single Question for the Candidates
On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 11:37:47AM -0800, Matt Zimmerman wrote: EOT. *plonk* I guess that means you concede my point. Thanks for reading. Jonathan -- Address: 13685 Hilton Road, Surrey, BC V3R5J8 (Canada) Contact: 604-951-4142 (between 7am and 10pm, PST) Website: http://reactor-core.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Just a single Question for the Candidates
Hi, Jonathan Walther wrote: The only problem is people having thin skins. To function in ANY group setting, one needs a thick skin, and a vigorous will to defend oneself. Sorry, but I disagree, vigorously in fact. My experience says that there are enough groups out there where personal attacks simply aren't tolerated. I'm not going to call anybody names because their argument and/or their code sucks. I'm not even going to call the argument / code itself names (i.e., your code sucks) because (a) just mentioning the specific problems I have with it generally gets my point across MUCH better anyway, and (b) some people don't see the difference between the two and react with counterattacks. Examples abound. :-/ Mind you, I'm not saying that I'm a 100% Nice Guy. I am saying, though, that I'd much prefer being told off if/when I slip into disparaging language myself, than to deal with an environment where that's the group standard. -- Matthias Urlichs
Re: Just a single Question for the Candidates
Hi, Jonathan Walther wrote: On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 11:37:47AM -0800, Matt Zimmerman wrote: EOT. *plonk* I guess that means you concede my point. Thanks for reading. *ROTLF* No, it means that _you_ concede the point, except that you don't even realize it. -- Matthias Urlichs
Re: [OT] Re: A freak (but not so freak) idea: User space apt-get install
On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 10:48:32PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Neither of those two documents say that we will keep all postings on the archives, or that we will remove them, they just say that we will if we want to. [...] seem to address your doubts... No, they don't really. In case of someone posting a message and with a note that they don't want it distributed, that's just stupid of them, but in the case of a virus posting something that was never intended to be posted, that's something that we might need to have to clean up, under the bona fide rules. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: Proposed transition plan for non-free and call for help
On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 06:50:05PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote: No. You only proposed to start with the debian-keyring, and did not promise not to diverge from it in the future. Debian has an NM procedure and team which I've grown to trust, but an NM-for-non-free.org process would have to gain its own trust. Well, first of all you'd have to note that all the people who participated in this non-free effort have been (to my knowledge) also involved in the Debian NM process. On the other hand, I believe it is important to let people contribute to non-free without requiring them to become official DDs, I am not sure Debian should accept people who'd just do non-free stuff (not talking about the past here). If the need will arise, I guess we can be pretty certain that there will be a thourough procedure to check whether people i) are who they claim to be ii) know how to package stuff up properly, so that it interacts nicely with the other packages and iii) don't step on other maintainers feet. Also note that non-free is about the size the whole of Debian had back in perhaps '94. A real NM-process was not necessary back then, so I believe we don't need to clone nm.debian.org verbatim. Still, having the current NM requirements (modulo the philosophical stuff) like having a sponsored package in (whatever) archive and an advocte is a big plus and will make it quite easy to conduct the NM process for experienced application managers. What would you propose to be reasonable policies for granting uploading access to non-free.org, and what should be the requirements? I'd honestly value your input here. Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html
Re: [OT] Re: A freak (but not so freak) idea: User space apt-get install
On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 10:48:32PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: I would still apply the second paragraph I just re-quoted - We are not under obligation to remove it. Now, if someone posted a list of valid WinXP license numbers to our lists, the listmasters would probably delete it. And if someone defamates you, publishes your personal information or something similar, you can _ask_ the listmasters to remove that from the archive. Of course, they will apply their personal criteria in order to do so, and they will not be able to remove it from external archiving sites. You do know that the person you're replying to is a listmaster, right? (Just checking, as it doesn't seem that way from your tone.) -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Re: A freak (but not so freak) idea: User space apt-get install
On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 05:10:33PM +, Colin Watson wrote: Of course, they will apply their personal criteria in order to do so, and they will not be able to remove it from external archiving sites. You do know that the person you're replying to is a listmaster, right? (Just checking, as it doesn't seem that way from your tone.) Damn, you just spoiled us the fun of watching probably half a dozen more messages of going around in circles :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
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Re: Just a single Question for the Candidates
On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 11:09:27AM +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote: Hi, Jonathan Walther wrote: On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 11:37:47AM -0800, Matt Zimmerman wrote: EOT. *plonk* I guess that means you concede my point. Thanks for reading. *ROTLF* No, it means that _you_ concede the point, except that you don't even realize it. To say that is to fly in the face of our entire legal infrastructure. Qui tacet consentit means Silence gives consent or some such. He was silent, ie, having no reply to my final post, implying he has no response to counter with. His silence implies he recognizes I am correct. Jonathan -- Address: 13685 Hilton Road, Surrey, BC V3R5J8 (Canada) Contact: 604-951-4142 (between 7am and 10pm, PST) Website: http://reactor-core.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
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Re: Just a single Question for the Candidates
Jonathan Walther [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: To say that is to fly in the face of our entire legal infrastructure. Qui tacet consentit means Silence gives consent or some such. He was silent, ie, having no reply to my final post, implying he has no response to counter with. His silence implies he recognizes I am correct. Sorry to weigh in again, but this is just too tempting... You way overestimate yourself, the silence of many people here just means that they have better things to do with their time than arguing with you. But if you firmly believe in what you write and if it helps you to have a happier life, then so be it, we all think you are right, especially all those who write *PLONK*, the sign of ultimate agreement. Delusions can be so comforting... Lukas
Re: Just a single Question for the Candidates
On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 11:58:55PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote: On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 02:11:06PM -0800, Jonathan Walther wrote: To say that is to fly in the face of our entire legal infrastructure. Qui tacet consentit means Silence gives consent or some such. He was silent, ie, having no reply to my final post, implying he has no response to counter with. His silence implies he recognizes I am correct. Moo. It's spelt Mu. Jonathan -- Address: 13685 Hilton Road, Surrey, BC V3R5J8 (Canada) Contact: 604-951-4142 (between 7am and 10pm, PST) Website: http://reactor-core.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
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